Myers-Briggs Test & Success

Hey monkeys, so I had the chance to take a Myers-Briggs test for the first time a couple days ago and it got me thinking about the validity of the test as well as the effect it truly has on our careers. There's been a lot of debate on this topic and whether the test is truly indicative of personality types and has any further implications. According to an article in the Time Magazine:

Unsurprisingly it’s ENTJs, who are known to be outgoing, self-motivated, driven and competitive, who earn the highest household income by a landslide, averaging over $80,000 per household. Meanwhile the artistic crowd, like shy and emotional INFPs, are the lowest earners, averaging around $60,000.

Personally, I'm a little skeptical as to the merits of the test and its ability to accurately determine an individual's personality given that every person has tendencies that aren't so black and white. Nonetheless, I wanted to open this up for discussion. What do you monkeys think?

Feel free to comment with your Myers-Briggs Personality Type and your thoughts about the article and the test in general. I'll start it off by saying that I found out I'm an ENTJ.

This Is How Much Money You'll Make Based On Your Personality

 

Also ENTJ here. I much prefer the Enneagram test as it defines your baseline personality traits, but also what traits shift when you are stressed and how that might look. Has really helped me when dealing with difficult clients, coworkers, etc. I can monitor my own feelings and take corrective action before getting myself in trouble!

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)
 

When I am on a tight deadline and am very stressed I tend to become very abrupt with everyone. Having this knowledge can help me take a deep breath and respond in a way that more fully represents my true personality. Prior to this understanding, people would be confused as to why this really outgoing, friendly, and laid-back guy was suddenly curt and aloof.

I know that was probably a horrible example, but I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)
 

I think the test is highly accurate but the results, like any source of information, should be vetted against an array of opinions. See what as many sources of these MBTI profilers say about you, then decide what you think. Make sure to take the exam more than once over a few years to see how accurate it is or how your personality changes.

Strong INTJ here.

in it 2 win it
 

INTJ. I'm definitely good on an interpersonal basis --- but would go insane if I had to do it all day like a sales trader or something.

I can't prove it, but my common sense says that there is a lot of BS incorporated into tests like this --- anything related to psychology.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.
 
Best Response

ENTP. I will test as an ENTJ these days, but the truth is that I am not organized and enjoy initiating stuff more than finishing stuff. Apparently the joke is that ENTPs are the trolls of the internet. Also my room is terribly disorganized and looks one or two steps up from "hit by tornado".

In all seriousness, if your personality has a T or a J in it, you often do well in finance. INTJs tend to make the best traders.

At some point I need to create one of those graphics of different trading floor personalities.
ENFP- the sales guy ENTJ- the head of the VIX desk
ESTJ- the head of equity cash trading ENTP- the desk strat. Or maybe the private wealth management guy. INTP- the front office risk manager INTJ- the exotics trader ESFJ- the gregarious admin

 
ValueBanker14:

Love the classification based on personality types. Why do you think you'd test differently these days?

Because I do! The humanmetrics test has been around for a good decade and I take it every couple years. When I first took it in college, I came out an ENTP. A little borderline on the E, but otherwise with strong signals for the NTP. Made a lot of sense.

Seven years later, I take the test, I answer questions, I come out a weak ENTJ. I give different answers to "It is in your nature to assume responsibility" and "You are inclined to rely more on improvisation than prior planning". Being an adult... changes your nature and your answers to these questions. (I believe these are both J vs P questions)

But if you look at my room; if you look at how I make my decisions; how I approach problems; how I enjoy giving analysis but do not enjoy giving a definitive answer; how I always make sacrifices to maintain flexibility, how I troll WSO, how I start a lot of projects but only finish a few, I'm a screaming P.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ENTP.html

ENTPs are less interested in developing plans of actions or making decisions than they are in generating possibilities and ideas. Following through on the implementation of an idea is usually a chore to the ENTP. For some ENTPs, this results in the habit of never finishing what they start. The ENTP who has not developed their Thinking process will have problems with jumping enthusiastically from idea to idea, without following through on their plans. The ENTP needs to take care to think through their ideas fully in order to take advantage of them.
ENTPs are fluent conversationalists, mentally quick, and enjoy verbal sparring with others. They love to debate issues, and may even switch sides sometimes just for the love of the debate.
If the ENTP was defending someone who had actually committed a crime, they are likely to take advantage of quirks in the law that will get their client off the hook. If they were to actually win the case, they would see their actions as completely fair and proper to the situation, because their actions were lawful. The guilt or innocence of their client would not be as relevant... If this type of reasoning goes uncompletely unchecked by the ENTP, it could result in a character that is perceived by others as unethical or even dishonest.

Totally me. This fall, I managed to get out of a badly written parking ticket when I knew I had parked a motorcycle basically on a sidewalk, and I knew the police officer had screwed up the ticket by writing me up for something else (parking outside of a marked parking zone). I chuckled walking out of the courtroom after the judge found me not guilty. It's an adversarial process; I knew the law better than the police officer, so I won fair and square. I enjoyed it so much that I would have still fought the ticket if there wasn't a fine at stake, even if I still was sort of in the wrong but technically correct.

Arguing for arguing's sake and defeating a bad argument are all classic personality traits of an ENTP. Although we genuinely are nice people, we secretly chuckle to ourselves when we win an argument, even if we could have made a better argument going the other way.

On the other hand, here is an ENTJ:

There is not much room for error in the world of the ENTJ. They dislike to see mistakes repeated, and have no patience with inefficiency. They may become quite harsh when their patience is tried in these respects, because they are not naturally tuned in to people's feelings, and more than likely don't believe that they should tailor their judgments in consideration for people's feelings. ENTJs, like many types, have difficulty seeing things from outside their own perspective. Unlike other types, ENTJs naturally have little patience with people who do not see things the same way as the ENTJ. The ENTJ needs to consciously work on recognizing the value of other people's opinions, as well as the value of being sensitive towards people's feelings. In the absence of this awareness, the ENTJ will be a forceful, intimidating and overbearing individual. This may be a real problem for the ENTJ, who may be deprived of important information and collaboration from others. In their personal world, it can make some ENTJs overbearing as spouses or parents.

This is NOT me. I have a lot of tolerance for people who disagree with me and with mistakes. I do not have patience for people who try to force their worldview on others. My response at that point is usually to ask a lot of questions, point out facts that contradict their conclusions, sometimes with a degree of sarcasm or humor if online. This is classic P-type behavior and it often drives Js crazy. (However they come to their senses when they realize that you're right.)

 

After spending a ton of time obsessed with this stuff, I've come to the conclusion that this stuff is pretty much complete junk. That isn't to say that the types don't exist in real life, but that there is 0 predictability. 2 self typed INTPs can look completely different because they interpret the characteristics differently. Plus, there is always the Forer effect. If you want a much more disturbingly accurate typing system check out "Socionics". Two types will be very similar in real life under this system. It types information rather than people and works under the premise that people have an information metabolism, which are able to be typed. I'm an INTp under this system. Socionics looks a lot like MBTI, but it's very different. That said, all of this stuff is still pseudoscience and should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

ENTJ here. You going for Bridgewater?

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 
ValueBanker14:

Yeah. I had to take it as part of their process. You?

Get ready to be grilled. Your personality better match the test results.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

INTJ here. I'm not sure about the validity of the salary information in that article, but I've found the test itself to be very accurate and useful. It can be a good reference to see what field you'll excel in most and whether you're in the right job.

Every person has a different personality and they aren't black and white, but I would say we each naturally gravitate towards one letter or another and the personality type can at least be a good guide for potential careers that would be a good fit.

 
encore:

Weird. Does anyone else get different results with different versions of the test? I took another version for fun and got ESTJ - interesting...

Everyone does. I think the best approach is to look through the personality profiles and figure out which person is you.

If you look at a profile and say, "Wow that guy's problems sound really annoying", that person probably isn't you. If you look at a profile, see all of the flaws, and say "Wait- I do this all the time!", that's you.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ENTJ.html http://www.personalitypage.com/ESTJ.html

The ESTJ vs ENTJ distinction is about how much reasoning goes into decisions, and how much they stay in the present moment. The ENTJ is an ideas-driven person while the ESTJ is a more present-moment kind of person. The distinction is subtle, but you should be able to figure it out.

 

I test as an ENTP (official Myers-briggs - was part of work) but I do think I border between ENTJ and ENTP.

The other thing to consider is that these personality types are not 'stable' per-se, yes there is a dominant tendency but different contexts bring out and encourage pavlov-dog style specific traits.

I.E. I would wager that if you put ANY person in a CEO position long-enough they will begin to test as an ENTJ. If you put anyone in an entrepreneur's position for long-enough they'd begin to exhibit say ENTP traits.

 
setarcos:

I test as an ENTP (official Myers-briggs - was part of work) but I do think I border between ENTJ and ENTP.

The other thing to consider is that these personality types are not 'stable' per-se, yes there is a dominant tendency but different contexts bring out and encourage pavlov-dog style specific traits.

I.E. I would wager that if you put ANY person in a CEO position long-enough they will begin to test as an ENTJ. If you put anyone in an entrepreneur's position for long-enough they'd begin to exhibit say ENTP traits.

Actually if you look at the list of famous CEO/Politicians personality types you will notice a wide range. The test only shows you the traits you tend to favor, not your actual potential.

As an INTJ I prefer working in teams of 3-8 or 0, but have had to lead groups of over 30 at certain points in my career. Or even more annoying as an INTJ, brief groups of executives and audiences on a daily basis.

We took a similar test in my MBA program, DiSC report. And people started arguing this personality is best for job x and y. The reality is one's personality only has a slight correlation to career preference and nothing to do with success.

 

Plainview nailed it. That oily bastard.

Basically any time humans have the chance to categorize themselves/rank themselves, they will jump on it in hopes of finding out that they are, indeed, as "special" as they had always known. "I'm this, I'm that, here's what I think". Well, don't label me bro...

That being said:

ENTP Scorpio's who are right-handed simply run shit. And thats obvious.

Compensation is not commensurate with education.
 

Im skeptical, the human mind, and life itself is very complex and many factors play into judging your charachter and how you will handle any given situation

‘The critical investment factor is determining the intrinsic value of a business and paying a fair or bargain price." W.B." we venture the motto, Margin of Safety.” Ben Graham
 

Taken the test multiple times across years, always get ENTJ. After reading the strengths and weaknesses plus seeing the results of my friends and knowing their personalities. I'd say its pretty accurate.

I honestly think tests like this should be part of the hiring process. I'd guarantee certain personality types excel at different areas while flailing at other. So why not use something like this out of the gate to help with the risk management of hiring.

 

Yeah that sounds right. Above all, an employer would look for consistency. Even if you fake your answers and say end up as an 'Analyst' type for a research role, there's always the interview itself, references, GPA, multiple writing samples (cross-checked against plagiarism), unique case studies, etc. If the interviewer takes time to methodically analyze all of this, 90+% of the time you can see through the BS.

 

I just took it for a class and I still don't know if it's worth anything. The section where you pick between two words is the most dubious. For example, when picking between "spontaneous" and "scheduled", I would lean more toward "scheduled" in a work setting and "spontaneous" for my social life. Of course there are more sets of words you have differentiate, but I know myself and others think about separate words in different contexts--most of which are not defined ubiquitously in our lives.

Also, how would this test be reliable for hiring purposes if applicants knew the strength requirements for the job they were applying for?

 

I used to administer these tests as part of the honors program at my college freshman year and always got a kick out of the responses.

A few things to remember for many people taking the test for the first time:

  1. No personality is better than another and while some lend themselves better in particular situations the advantage depends highly on rule #2.

I am strongly ENTJ but someone with is ISFP will be better than me at many things. We are different not better than one or another.

  1. These tests are best used to understand your place in a group or how well a group will work together. So in Rule #1 with particular situations being better than others...this depends highly on the other people in the group or department you work in. If your boss and co-workers are all INTJ or other types of Introverts and you are ENTJ or ESTP you might not get along with them at all.

Try to understand where your co-workers and bosses would fit in these personality groupings and understand how they fit in groups, derive energy, and think. It will be worth it to you.

  1. Your results are meant to be a point in time look at your personality. Things, situations, and experiences change and it can be helpful to take the test every few years in order to only better understand yourself.

Enjoy !

 

I tested as INTP when younger, now I register as ENFP. Theoretician -> getting people on board with a viable idea has been my progression.

These tests measure your CURRENT mental and emotional approach to life.

Your approach/attitude can vary over time with maturity, personal decisions, context, and a host of other influences. Also, what you put into your body affects your 'state' so your general demeanor will alter if you do relatively mundane things such as start/stop drinking coffee or working out, get more/less sleep, etc etc etc. The results of this test are somewhat consistent over time, but so are people's habits and situation in life. When your inputs change, the output generall does.

These tests are like IQ tests: all they measure is the results of THAT test, on THAT particular day, when you were in THAT state of mind. The brain is incredibly plastic and can change, adapt, and grow significantly depending on what we choose to do. Think of these tests like you would your physique: depending on what you eat, how often you work out, and what type of excercise you do, your body will generally adapt beyond whatever your starting point is.

Get busy living
 

To add to my last post:

I actually took 10 minutes out of my day to quickly research the validity and reliability of the MBTI. Most of the actual studies are behind paywalls, but there are some good summaries out there.

Basically, the conclusion that is reached over and over again -- is that it is a pretty poor test. From my reading, people in the field don't even consider it among the best available tests for personality inventory. To add to that, the framework of the test is like 60 years old. I would venture to say that most of the advances in this field came relatively recently.

One other thing. The widespread popularity of the MBTI isn't due to its efficacy, but rather the fact that it is deeply embedded in the HR Departments of the corporate world. It makes HR people feel important. Anyway, I feel like many of these profiles are self-fulfilling just as horoscopes are. Just wanted to offer some counter-point.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.
 

We actually just learned about this in my Psych Course. Apparently psychologists now admit that this test is complete bullshit [Weaknesses of typologies: categorizing typologies, derived inferentially rather than empirically, poor reliability, no evidence that it predicts outcomes (poor validity)]. My professor does a lot of research on personality and she told us that the Myers-Briggs is not nearly reliable or valid as five factor inventories (Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, and Negative emotionality). She said that since often times people fall just inside one of the sixteen categories on the myers-briggs, its entirely possible for a person to take the test literally an hour apart and get different results. In short, even though it's popular, the test is bullshit. The five factor inventories actually do a much better job indicating things like future earnings, whether or not you're prone to mental illness, and whether or not you're more likely to become a drug addict, too. Pretty cool stuff.

 

I once as an experiment took this test like 10 times over the course of a week. Let me tell you, I pretty much got a different answer each time. It is either extremely inaccurate or really easy to bullshit.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 
heister:

I once as an experiment took this test like 10 times over the course of a week. Let me tell you, I pretty much got a different answer each time. It is either extremely inaccurate or really easy to bullshit.

That happens to me too, but I usually alternate between two types.

[quote=Matrick][in reply to Tony Snark"]Why aren't you blogging for WSO and become the date doctor for WSO? There seems to be demand. [/quote] [quote=BatMasterson][in reply to Tony Snark's dating tip] Sensible advice.[/quote]
 

Took one for a class, said INTJ. Working on the E though, is INTJ bad for IBD, I'd prefer ER haha guess I really am an INTJ

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger
 

The Mastermind Type: INTJ

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.
 

personality tests are retarded...people are too complex to label with four letters. maybe myers briggs gives a general idea of a few aspects of a person - but I won't veven concede that. people are too damn complex.

 
N3ro:

I have seen many different posts (here WSO), were there are many different wall street "types", PE guy, Associate etc...i thought that could there be a similar one for the MBTI types.

Could someone who knows something about them (mbti) tell me these for example

The Hedge funder

the PE guy

the MD

associate

proprietary trader

etc... I know this is a stupid question, but this is monkeying around..;)

you're the 45 y/o retail bank branch manager

what else you wanna know

heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

ENTJ and proud of it...but then I would be given that I am one. Not sure if you can draw a correlation...there's so many disparate types of people in each industry that it would be hard to say any one type dominates.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."
 

ENTP.

I used to be I, shifted to E in my latest MB test. I'm one of those people, I feel so dirty.

I'm proudly all the way to the extreme on T. The F's can go cry in the toilets.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
SSits:

ENTP.

I used to be I, shifted to E in my latest MB test. I'm one of those people, I feel so dirty.

I'm proudly all the way to the extreme on T. The F's can go cry in the toilets.

you guys take this shit too seriously. you sound more like an FAGT
heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

FTR, I usually score at least 90% on extraversion.

[quote=Matrick][in reply to Tony Snark"]Why aren't you blogging for WSO and become the date doctor for WSO? There seems to be demand. [/quote] [quote=BatMasterson][in reply to Tony Snark's dating tip] Sensible advice.[/quote]
 
Jessicainthebigapple:

INTJs are not evil, their mind just busy packed with analysis and scientific data. lol.

Jessica, no one cares about your personality. All we care about is: Are you pretty & slim? If yes, we will love you. If no, go to hell and never come back to WSO.

 

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Make Idaho a Semi-Target Again 2016 Not an alumnus of Idaho
 

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