Negotiating pay as intern?
Is it possible and would it be wise to negotiate pay for an internship?
I have an early offer at a firm (non-BB) that made me specify a minimum expected wage on their online application. I was called to notify me of the offer and recently got the actual offer. Unfortunately, the compensation wasn't near what I put in for the application. I was hoping for at least 45k annual but was offered 38k annual.
In such a situation, would it be wise to negotiate the pay and if so, how should it be done?
Good luck. There are thousands of people who will take your place at the drop of a hat. You're not there for the money, you're there for the experience.
You're concerned because of a 7K USD difference even when you're only going to be spending 10 weeks with the place? Seriously?
$23/h versus $20/h. As an intern. And you want to do what?
Dude. Come on.
Considering that many people do internships for no money just to get the experience and resume boost, I find the idea of nitpicking over an amount so insignificant in the long-run to be extremely unwise.
Don't negotiate. As people have said above, there are thousands of hungry kids ready to take your offer if you don't want to. Get the experience and become invaluable to a firm, you won't need to negotiate with them then. They'll recognize talent
The experience itself and the chance to put relevant experience on your resume is what you should worry about as an intern, not pay. There are people that would do it for free just for those two elements.
$38K works out to $19/hour. My first internship paid me $9/hour as a C# programmer, and I thought I was making serious dough.
Your best option in negotiating pay is to get a better offer elsewhere.
I didn't expect this much negativity. I asked so that I can correctly make my decisions. With another offer in hand and the only difference being location preference, I wanted to know if pay can be negotiated to make a final decision. Anyways, I suppose you guys are right about putting experience first.
On a similar note, when can negotiations be handled typically during one's career? - 1st year analyst? vp? md/partner?
Also, if I were to stay with the firm (hopefully), will my 1st year analyst pay be determined as a small % increase from my internship pay? (i.e. 38k intern pay leads to a 10% increased 42k 1st yr analyst pay)
I would say that, if they are completely low-balling you for FT, you can say "hey, I really like you guys, but comparably I have an offer for $X, can you match that?". You can negotiate above brackets if you're a value-add, as in you're bringing in specific skills that the firm NEEDS. Other than that, they have hundreds of people willing to take your spot immediately.
I doubt 1st year analyst pay is a result of what you were paid as an intern there, but I could be wrong.
I did negotiate my contract as an intern, got a 25% raise w.r.t. what they were offering me. But I actually needed it, as I was abroad and trying to ask my parents for no money at all.
In general, trying to negotiate internship salary is a suicide. TS, in regards to your post, I will even save my monkey shit on this one.
You're a pussy. I worked 3 unpaid internships and didnt complain once.
Now I know why grandpa always told stories about having to walk to school 2 miles through the snow uphill both ways and how you kids have it so darned easy. (we did)
I remember when I tried negotiating my salary for one of my internships. It went something like this:
Employer: "We'd like to offer you the job, starting pay is $15 an hour" Me: "That's great. Is that offer negotiable at all?" Employer: "Sure, we can pay you less" Me: "I'll take $15"
Luckily they still offered me the job. I could see how asking the question could definitely backfire, but ultimately it's your call.
This is a troll, right? Right?
You will know when to negotiate. There is no rule (VP, MD, C-officer), but in any negotiation, it requires assessing the counterparty's BATNA, i.e. "the course of action that will be taken by a party if the current negotiations fail and an agreement cannot be reached". Clearly, in all cases, it requires being to some extent irreplaceable, your importance to the firm must be somewhat intuitu personæ. This is most likely not the case now, so it is entirely irrational for you to negotiate.
I only wish I had more monkey shit to throw at you.
Negotiating Internship (Originally Posted: 11/24/2009)
I have recently seen a few private equity internship postings on my university's career site and am interested in applying to them. However, these positions are unpaid. I have good boutique experience and a private equity internship under my belt.
Has anyone ever requested at least minimum wage? My previous private equity internship was unpaid, and I don't think I can last another unpaid internship. I appreciate any insight.
If yes, go for it
thanks !
Negotiating compensation for unpaid internship (Originally Posted: 02/26/2010)
I have internship offers at two boutique ibanks, but both don't pay nothing. How can I go about negotiating some sort of compensation? I am honestly grateful for the position given that I have no experience and there are other people lined up for the job, but I need some $$$ (at least to cover transportation and other small expenses). What's the most effective way to go about this? How and when should I bring it up?
Work there for 2 months and then mention it. You knew it was unpaid when you signed on. Plenty of people would be willing to take that job from you. Think of it as a rather small investment in your future.
Both are FT summer positions and I haven't committed to either. One of the firms said very early on that if the no-pay was an issue, that I should let them know. How do I go about doing it now?
If you want the internship, you don't. If it is a deal breaker you can tell them that things have changed and you need some travel money, but be prepared for them to pull back the offer.
You've got two offers.
Tell the the bank you like less than you'd like some money as it would make a difference between your offers.
If they screw you, go to favourite.
BUMP, just cause relevant.
My question is: I've already orally accepted the offer, but I still want like some transportation money as well. How do I approach it in terms of the conversation to be had?
You could tell them that you have a long commute and try for a transportation stipend.
negotiating a return boutique internship offer? (Originally Posted: 08/03/2011)
I'm about to get offered a return offer following a summer internship stint with a very small boutique IB for a fall semester internship. Is there any way I can negotiate a small increase in my salary/hourly rate? Or is this completely a stupid idea?
Yes you should definitely try. There is usually also a sign on bonus when you start full time. Ask them about it, mentioning that it's a standard practice and your friends got an increase (it doesn't have to be true)
^ mentioning your "friends" got one is probably not best practice...
best way to negotiate is to have another offer. when they give you the offer, thank them and let them know that you are very willing to accept, but you would like the courtesy of taking a little time to think about it. find out if its exploding or has an expiration date. if it's exploding, then you may have to negotiate immediately. if they give you some time, go back into your senior year with an offer in your pocket, continue to interview, and use your new offers to negotiate a more competitive package. i did this my senior year, and it worked out nicely. PM if you'd like more info
Negotiating an Unpaid Internship (Originally Posted: 04/30/2014)
Hey guys, college freshman here. I recently posted a question regarding whether or not I should take an unpaid summer internship at an independent financial services, Asset Management and estate planning practice. I got some great advice, and I think I'm going to do it.
However, my question now is: is it possible to negotiate flexible hours/work schedule without coming off poorly? As I said, this is an unpaid internship, so I also need to have a paying summer job. And quite honestly, I want some free time. How can I go about this?
Thanks in advance everyone.
You knew what you were getting yourself into. Relax, let your parents pay for your Porsche.
Negotiating a salary as an intern (Originally Posted: 08/25/2015)
Hi guys. I’m taking a semester from school at a semi-target (eg vanderbilt, rice, notre dame, wash u, UNC) off to intern full-time this fall. I have several offers including one from a small boutique bank with strong deal flow. I have geniune interests in IB and have spent past summers at a F100 working in corp. dev & strategy. All else equal, I would take the offer from the i-bank for the fall.
The problem is compensation. My past two summers at F100 I made $8000 and $12,000 pretax working 40 hours a week for 12 weeks. Unfortunately, the i-bank is offering ~$4500 for working banking hours for 12 weeks. This is less than my other offers for the fall — including one from a non-profit think tank and from F100’s; of course, at all these non-banking places I’d be working fewer hours.
I understand that it’s a faux pas to negotiate salary as an intern — and I know that some boutique bank interns aren’t even paid. But given my relevant experience (worked on M&A deals in corp. dev.), the strong interest in me that the bank’s shown, and my offers from other companies for the fall, could I negotiate a comp. increase, and if so, how?
I sincerely want to accept the IB offer as the work sounds amazing and enjoyable, but I can’t without at least a 50% bump in comp. And so I’d appreciate any advice you monkeys might have, particularly from those of you working at small boutiques.
Thanks for your advice!
Do you absolutely need the money to survive or do you really think you're that valuable to the firm? I interned at a boutique bank this summer and I never even asked about the pay, the seniors brought it up. Experience is first man... Fuck trying to negotiate peanuts.
You clearly don't "sincerely want to accept" if the money is going to drive your decision to accept or decline. Also, by what logic did you come up with "at least a 50% bump"?
The 50% comp increase is what's needed for basic living expenses (food, housing, & transportation). If I don't receive it, I'll need to drain my savings from past internships and get parents' money to support myself. Hell, even with the 50% increase, I'll need to tap into savings for miscellaneous expenses.
But it's not just that I could use the money. I have offers from other places (two F100's in corp dev/strat, a REIT, and others) that value my skills at a far higher rate. I have experience doing banking-type work in corp. dev and I do really think that I'm worth more than what I'm being offered by the bank.
I understand that experience is crucial. But is the experience gained from doing a gig in banking (as opposed to a corp. dev/strat role) that critical to gaining an SA offer at a BB or Elite Boutique? Is the ~$10,000 loss in savings worth it? I've determined that it's not -- but it would be worth it if I could avoid asking my parents for money, which is why I need the raise.
I could very well be wrong so I'm happy to hear your take.
You are an intern, you aren't really worth anything. You can state why you think you'd need more money, and they'll either counter, or tell you to go fuck yourself. Realistically, if you pass on the offer, they will simply pick up the phone and call the next candidate and offer him the job. Your personal calculus computed a loss in savings not worth the relevant experience, but I bet you I can find a lot of people on this forum that will beg to differ. Your call.
This is an interesting dilemma to have. I think it boils down to how much risk tolerance you have. Definitely doesn't hurt to let them know about the other offers and ask if there is any possible movement on the compensation. You'll kick yourself for the duration if you don't ask.
Lol... You sound entitled, man. No matter how many M&A deals you were doing bitch work on, no, you're not worth anything to an IB firm. Unless you're some secret magical uniform who single handedly sourced and completed a whole deal, you're going to generate little to no value for any IB. Not even with your little simple DCF that you may have built once in your past internship. Interns are dead weight 99% of the time. You only start to be worth something once you have at least 2 years of FULL TIME INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE.
People would kill to do that internship unpaid. Give it to me instead. Personally, since my ultimate goal is IB, I would take this for free over a 10,000 pay internship. 10,000 is chump change compared to the long run bank you'd make if this internship helps you get into IB (which it will, more so than corpdev). Unless you're certain that you won't learn anything in this role, I'd take it.
In this case, honesty is your friend. If you tell them that you really prefer their offer over your others (seems true), but that they aren't offering you enough money to survive(also seems true), then just tell them the truth. It can't hurt and these small firms don't have big analyst classes, so they may just pony up a couple of extra thousand.
Thanks guys -- this board has given me a lot of clarity, distinguishing central concerns from the superficial cloud hanging over them. I've realized that I wasn't too concerned with the money per se -- I know that my FT signing bonus could likely be > $10k -- but rather with assessing the value of an banking internship over that of my other options. I've seen that most kids from my school who work/will work at top places FT (Centerview, Evercore, MS, Lazard) completed banking internships prior to junior year. Corp. dev gigs (except those at top tech firms) just don't seem to lead to the same calibre of banking positions. To maximize my chances at working at one of those places, I plan on accepting the banking opportunity. I will be honest with the bank and inform them that I need a bit more to live on, but won't push too hard. I know that I am fortunate to have the opportunity.
I'm sorry if I sounded entitled or ignorant; that was never my intention, but I understand how I could've given off that impression. I know that many people struggle for internships despite working hard in school and networking diligently.
Some of the answers I read here are ridiculous. It's the market; demand and supply meet at a price and there is nothing wrong with trying to get out with the best deal. People who say: "I did unpaid internships, you should too" probably did never dare to ask for anything, did the monkey job for free, and then got kicked out.
They are not taking you because they want to make some charity. You are going to provide a service they need, and your work will probably be worth more than they pay you as an intern.
In this situation, I would try to get to the negotiation with kind of a joke to see the first response. Then, from there it's game theory. You see how they react and from there understand how much you can push.
Negotiating SA salary? (Originally Posted: 02/26/2010)
I want to accept my best offer, but the pay is lower (probably the prestige factor?) I wouldn't care, except I have to pay my own college tuition so it would make a pretty big difference to my family during this time. Is this non-negotiable? Thanks, and sorry if this is an inane question.
and just to clarify, one of the banks I have is paying significantly more than the other
Although it probably won't be successful, you might as well try to press the issue and use the other offer as leverage if money is that big of an issue. The worst that could happen is that you end up taking the lesser offer that pays more. How big is the differential between the two offers?
when deciding to negiote make sure you do not piss anyone off or come off as arogant as this is a SA position, bottom of the food chain, be honest with them...
since you are worried about money, remember that the more prestigious offer will pay off in the long run, don't let finances right now affect your future
Don't try to negotiate. You'll look like an idiot. I can't imagine the difference being more than a few hundred dollars that you would easily be able to more than make up for in the future.
thanks for the input. I should think about the long run and you're right, I shouldn't get people angry over a few thousand dollars. the difference was OT pay
smart!
Negotiating SA offers... don't be pathetic.... you're going to be there for just ten weeks, forget about how much you make during the summer and focus on getting the full-time position.
ok this wasn't about being pathetic. my family is in a difficult financial situation
I'm sorry if you're in a difficult financial situation, but in my opinion trying to negotiate the salary of a summer internship will just hurt you.
Besides, let's say you get paid 12,000 for the whole summer. Assuming it were possible, how much are you going to "negotiate"? They would give you 13,000 after a lot of "negotiation" and arguing. The question therefore is: are you going to do all that for just 1,000 dollars? If you're in a difficult financial situation, wouldn't it be better to get a part time job and make those 1,000 dollars without being such an annoyance and giving such a bad impression to the company where you may end up working full time?
Think long term, get offer that will be best for your future and, if you need a couple extra hundred bucks then save them while you are at work and ultimately get a part time job while in school.
Discussing compensation as an intern (Originally Posted: 06/10/2013)
I just accepted a small time SA position at an IB boutique. Once I accepted, they sent me an offer letter stating compensation as $10/hr. I know in the past, they've hired interns for this exact same position doing the exact same thing paying $15/hr because I was referenced by a friend who has worked there before.
I'm extremely grateful that I'm even receiving anything at all. But I can't help but wonder if this is common practice. During the interview, the employer stated that my duties and responsibilities will be identical to that of my friend.
Thoughts? Would I be committing suicide to negotiate?
cant believe i even read this....
wow. if they dont throw in a company car and dinner tell them to go fuck themselves.
Beggars can't be choosers.
I think it would be a foolish idea to try to negotiate. If it was for a full-time position, I would say go for it because you certainly dont want to work for a company that would take advantage of a new employee. But this is an internship. The experience and resume boost is the real value you obtain from it, not the monetary gain. The risk of negotiating vastly out weighs the reward in my opinion.
as an intern, your goal is to learn and build up the network. Don't make the old guys hate you young fella
Don't do it.. Just do good work and network
not gonna lie though... that pay is bush league as hell... you could be working in audit or corp fin making double that...
if you are going to be working IB hours they are definitely taking advantage of you and your situation, but you're in a tight spot and negotiating won't work
GO into the big boss' office and demand a raise. You won't regret it
holy cow. I didn't think they paid that little for an IB intern! I was making more than that as an IT intern!
The good news, is that if you work more than 40 hours you should get some overtime pay of 15 dollars an hour.
Suck it up and work hard. If you a good enough job, they'll keep you on. Then you'll have more leverage to negotiate pay.
Let's assume you work 60 hours a week. You would make $1060 hours4 weeks*3 months = $7200. A $5 raise would increase your income by $3,600. But if your negotiation sucks, or the firm doesn't like your attitude, then you lose $7,200. The choice is yours.
It's not worth it, specially if you don't have anything else lined up. Unless you really need the money (as in you won't be able to eat) I wouldn't say anything, do good work, get good references and contacts and go. It's just a couple of months anyway, just think about how little difference it's going to make long term.
Negotiate won't help in your current situation but at least show your concerns in some way when you work there. $10 per hour is just way too low for an IB intern. The reducing of payment raises concern on their credibility. Do good work, earn the experience and be careful.
Just be glad it isn't an unpaid internship
$10 an hour?! Wow, that's absurd.
You really shouldnt have let it go this far without discussing pay. By not bringing this up during the interview process they pretty much got the opportunity to set the rate without any of your input. Now, it's going to be much harder to renegotiate but I'd at least try to test how flexible they are. It's 5 bucks an hour, they probably spent way more interviewing you, you guys should be able to work out something.
Does this suck, yes. You're an idiot if it's swaying your decision. I'm sure you'll end up bitter in the end but suck it up.
I was pulling staples out of prospectuses for 15/hour and scanning pwm investors portfolios. Truth be told I nearly quit mid summer. But I stuck it out and it was worth it.
Well, let's be practical about this. If your "acceptance" was verbal before they sent the offer letter, you aren't legally bound to anything. You have every right to call HR, politely express your concern about the compensation and state that you are familiar with the position's responsibilities and pay given that you know a former intern, and inquire if there was any particular reason yours is 66% that of the other guy's. The key is to be humble, polite, and earnest. If you can convey that, you're infinitely more likely to get what you want. If you come across as entitled, arrogant, or bratty in the least, you're going to lose the internship altogether.
If you signed anything at any point, you're fucked and you're tied to the offer you signed.
Everyone on here bashing the kid should ease up. Yes, the right attitude to have is to be thankful for any position, but at the same time, you could get double that pay for work half as demanding in IT, audit, executive search, etc. Just like any trader who crushes it on an MBS desk and gets a $1.2m bonus when his PNL was identical to the year before when he got a $1.6m bonus is going to ask about it, this kid is too.
Given the OP's suggestion that he's doing a "small time" internship at an "IB boutique" (which I take to mean I'm doing a "normal time internship at a small boutique"), I'm going to go out on a limb and say there probably isn't an HR department.
I'd take the job for $10/hr if you don't want it...
It's a risky move to ask for a raise and really depends on your situation
You're at a fucking boutique - be thankful that you get paid at all and most importantly the experience and name on your resume
Also, FWIW, interns concerned about pay is one of the sillier things I've heard on this board. Sure, this compensation procedure seems nepotist, at best, but who cares? You're getting legit experience, you're getting paid (plenty of people accept unpaid positions), and the amount of income you'll book as an intern is pennies compared to your earnings once you start full time.
I appreciate the bluntness around here. I couldn't help be a little disappointed because I DID have that expectation and I am in a sticky situation with my loans. But just to clarify a few terms for those that read this: 1. My situation is unique. I missed fall recruiting for various reasons and was in desperate need to for an internship. I interviewed 6 weeks ago and got the offer 1 week ago. 2. This will be my first IBD internship, and will only be 40-60hrs/week. I said "small time" internship because I know the work I'll be doing is far from financial modeling. The interviewer did claim that I'll become a powerpoint god. And I'm willing to perform grunt work given I'm a nobody they decided to take on to help them become more efficient around the office. Their entire firm has about 10-20 employees.
Thanks for all the responses guys!
In a very similar situation right now. Was this for a junior year summer internship or sophomore? Also, what did you end up doing? Would greatly appreciate the insight.
Don't ask for more because they took you on outside of recruitment and are essentially making you a position (thus mostly facilitating you).
There's a difference between negotiating for higher pay and simply asking for more. By no means should the OP try to negotiate more pay -- he has no leverage and lot of downside that could take the place of pissing people off and pulling the offer away from him.
However, there's probably nothing wrong with having a discussion about increasing the pay. The way he could do this is by being up-front that he is going to accept the position regardless and that he is very excited about the opportunity, but ask if there is any way they could increase the amount of pay. Paying an extra $5 per hour to a summer intern isn't going to have any material impact on a firm's budget or P&L, and I'd be shocked if they took this as an insult.
You got the gig based on a friends reference, lets now blow your qualifications out of the water here. Plus who cares how much you are getting paid for your SA position would you rather be paid nothing?
I'm at a corporate finance internship doing pro bono work right now. Just be happy with what you have for the time being and use it as leverage when you go for a full time position. Show you're willing to do the work despite the pay and it will work out in the end.
You were referred by a friend. Don't embarrass him by bringing this compensation topic up.
I was in a similar situation for a summer offer (except for the fact that I didn't know someone had recently made more for the same position) and went ahead and signed the offer and negotiated for 20% more later. It usually doesn't hurt to ask as long as you're polite and not too pushy. That's just my experience though. I cited the fact that I was giving up a job that paid more with a shorter commute and that I was happy to work for the lesser amount (evidenced by signed offer) but wasn't happy about the pay cut. It worked out perfectly, but could always backfire.
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