Networking in the UK?
Hi everyone. I wanna thank WSO for all the helpful tips that have been posted here. The general spirit on this forum makes me want to work in finance even more.
However, I have not found much information about networking in the UK. What I've read so far is that it's not too effective and can even be frowned upon. I am from a semi/non-target school in the UK (Glasgow university) and I'm going on my second year on a 4-year degree studying economics. I'm worried that considering my relatively low bracket school I might not get a shot at interviewing in the firms I want to work in. I'm open to working in anything on the buyside or that would open doors to the buyside. AM/HF/ER I would consider my final destination. Banks come to our university but what I recall from last year is that they are mostly backoffice roles.
If networking truly does not work, is there anything that one can do except try and achieve a GPA as high as possible and hope that somebody might read my CV?
Thank you in advance.
I am also studying in the UK (England) and this year went through the 2nd year recruitment hell (believe me it's hell).
My tips would be:
1) Get a committee position in respectable societies (finance&investment, economics, etc) or at least join as many as you can.
2) Do independent work related to the field you will be applying. E.g. if you want to be a trader, trade FX pairs, commodities, etc in forex (sounds cliche, but works!). By trading I'm not saying download the software and leave it be on your PC, but actually know the technicals and as much as possible!
3) Get involved in as many ECs as you can, leave a well-rounded, easy to talk to and approachable guy's image. In the end they not only hire a geek that can build a rocket but a guy that they could talk to and work with.
4) Use this summer to get an internship in finance (or better). Either paid or unpaid, whatever, but get it. This will instantly distinguish you from other as in the UK very few people get internships after 1st year.
5) If you're from Glasgow I assume you can apply to spring weeks and insight days in your upcomming year (correct me if I'm wrong), so definitely use this opportunity!! This very often lead to a SA position.
6) If that's not enough, get a part-time job during your studies. This will show many good qualities you have (or pretend to have, lol) even if the job won't be that impressive.
7) Polish your IT Skills and do sports. Not without a reason last on the list, but still worth paying attention to.
Hopefully one or few tips will get you motivated and help you next year. Good luck, mate.
Cheers! So much appreciated, thank you for your response.
I'd want to go to asset management so I suppose it would be good for me to start my own portfolio. I'm working this summer as a passenger traffic analyst intern (weird placement I know, I got this job by random chance), I suppose it's better than nothing. My job has involved attending meetings with clients, analyzing different transportation routes, profitability and scanning through abnormalities in reports by developing tools with excel. I guess this can be leveraged somehow when I try to apply to spring insights this year? Problem is I'm not sure whether spring insights are worth much considering I'm mainly interested in going to the buyside, e.g AM and they do not really do spring insights? Wouldn't IB be a lot more difficult to get into anyway and in a way, a waste of time if I really just want to do AM.
Considering that the Scottish 2nd year is the English first year, I think I'm not too late on board as you said? But I don't know whether many places give internships to first year students, it seems to be insights all the way. Many AM's especially seem to only recruit final year students or graduates..
Would you recommend any coldcalling/emails/networking or such? Is the recruiting process as formal as I've heard?
I will certainly take advantage of the things you mentioned above. Truly appreciate your time to respond, thank you again!
PM me for some information. I know your uni and placement from there quite well and can give you some insight.
Yes, I think your work exp. can definitely be levereged at the interview if you present it in a right way. Also, many BBs have their own AM firms. Thus, applying for a spring week/insight day at a bank would be an advantage when you'll apply to their AM firms and as a plus reputable bank name would never hurt on your resume.
Believe me, use insight days and spring weeks. So many people I know got SA positions because of this.
Now regarding your 2nd year summer internship, you could try firms with less formal application processes. I would imagine many AM firms would have such. However, you will definitely struggle, so definitely email/coldcall and network as much as you can to increase those thin chances.
As I am studying 3 years instead of 4, I can't tell you exactly how companies will respond towards you (being 1st year in terms of England educ system). You'll see this yourself soon enough, but I would suggest definitely contacting smaller AM firms as early as possible (can even be no-name AM firms) as they won't recruit very formally. You could also use LinkedIn for networking/contacting your Uni alumni.
So, don't be disappointed if you won't get an offer from a top notch AM firm next year, get at least valuable and insightful experience at a smaller AM firm to help you land something big during your 3rd year.
Also try PWM firms or units!
Thank you for taking the time to answer! Unfortunately, I am not able to PM since I do not have enough bananas..
I'm not worrying about scoring anything big, frankly, I'd want anything related to finance FO. Something with, hopefully, reimbursed expenses so I don't end up negative money-wise after the summer. Is there anything I can do except just cold-apply to the spring insights? I do have (on the UK-scale, I'm from abroad) AAAA from A-levels so that might help me.. other than that I do not feel there is anything interesting about me that would separate me from the other candidates. I do take part in societies to some extent but so does everyone else. I guess I should try and score the aptitude tests as high as possible?
Aptitude tests are literally worthless. I've done over ~30 or maybe more of them (all: logical, numerical, verbal) and they are there just to filter those who do not pass the bar. After a couple of tests you see the pattern and repeated questions, thus I'm pretty sure I scored 100% in many of them, which only means that you don't get rejected right away.
You say you haven't got thing that distinguishes you from other candidates/something interesting about you. That's I guess precisely the reason you came here looking for tips, isn't this right? Tips how to make your candidacy stronger?
So don't say that I'm "this" and "that" but try to be better in some ways (use what me and other wrote above).
So I guess your plan could be: Over the summer write a solid cv, cl and think of how to make your job experience stand out (think of everything you've done so far and write down what could possibly help you out in applications/interviews, use numbers to show your performance)
When you get back to uni, you will still have a couple of months before applications (research when they open and close), so use this time to place yourself in the right societies, maybe attend some finance conferences (excellent way to learn new stuff and NETWORK), do some extra work related to the field you will be applying, volunteer maybe and of course keep your grades as high as possible.
This and the info above is pretty much it. Apply to as many spring insights/weeks as possible (there are people that attend 3 of those!) and try to get some offers. After you get your offer/-s (will know the dates you'll be there), apply/cold call/email to firms hoping to land that finance/AM related internship.
Good luck.
Thanks again for an ever so quick response. I've heard that many internships and spring insights screen the applications on an ongoing basis and thus one should apply as soon as possible. However would it be worth more for me to try and get more experiences to throw in my CV rather than just apply early September when many of them open?
Experience beats pretty much anything. That being said, when are you going to get that experience? How strong is it going to be? What have you done so far? Where do you go to college? What about ECs? What are your grades? Do you have a decent network?
London - Networking - Finance (Originally Posted: 03/08/2018)
Hi All
I start this topic to give the opportunity to share tips about networking in London
Target: FO jobs in Asset / Wealth Management / Research / HF / PE ...
Which events? Which clubs / venues? General networking tips?
Events: Many London unis invite some PE and HF firms and AMs to their 'banking and finance' career events so if you're at a target or semi-target watch out for those. Most of the firms that come are going to be BBs and MMs which will have the asset management/wealth management departments. You will usually meet people from IB (as it seems to be a popular choice) but you can get their contact details and ask to refer you to someone internally in the areas of interest.
Clubs/Venues: A lot of PE firms are based around Mayfair so hanging around there will for sure exposure you to those people. A popular eatery for PE folk is Chucks in the heart of Mayfair and as for clubs, it can vary but on Friday night Mayfair clubs (Charlie/Maddox) and Oxford Circus clubs (Cirque Le Soir/Toy Room) are popular or bars in that area.
General Networking Tips: There are plenty of blogs outlining key tips but some key ones in my opinion are
Seem interesting. Nothing is worse than someone who seems career hungry but is as interesting as dried cow shit. Make sure you have REAL interests outside of finance and talk about those. Most of these guys will have picked up a hobby outside of work and if you can seem marginally intelligent about it it'll go a long way. If you speak to a guy who says he's a watch guy saying 'My dad wants to give me his rolex' won't get you as far as 'what do you think about Tudor's new all ceramic model?'
Like on a date, the first time you meet someone for a coffee chat shut up and listen. Let them talk about the firm and the culture, ask questions about their industry (if they've specialised in one) and try to get a feel for the person in general. Don't steam roll them by saying 'Oh, I see you have a Madrid office; this is cool because I speak Spanish and did my semester aborad in Chile and...etc' unless they ask specific questions. I think, by listening carefully the first time you will be better prepared for the next chat and they will want to know more about you which leads to perhaps sticking their neck out a bit more for you come recruiting season.
Networking in the UK? Same as in the US? (Originally Posted: 12/03/2010)
I wanted to know what the Corporate Culture in investment banking and/or trading was like in the UK compared to the US?
I'm a junior in undergrad heading over to London for a semester-long internship program thru my university. I got a internship at a small boutique bank and I was hoping to use this experience to build up my list of contacts in London and network network network.
My dream is to work in London one day in IB, so this upcoming semester is exactly what I'm hoping for. However, I attend a non-target school in the US (American University in DC) is my hope of finding employment in London after undergrad hopelessly unrealistic? I have a 3.7 major and 3.3 overall GPA, I know UK education uses a different system.
What is the best way to network in the UK and the best way to line myself up for employment in London as an American?
I believe mergers and inquisitions has a blog about this. google it.
I think its similar just with more tea
Thanks for the comments,
In fact I did read the article at Mergers and Inquisitons but it was about a native BRIT getting into IBing after he got a Masters at the LSE despite being from a non-target UK school.
I'm a yank and its different. I'm from a non-target US school, trying to get into IBing in London. Is this possible?
@jtrotsky, good advice: but what did you mean by dress attire? Will a standard blue business suit with a conservative dark tie be undesirable? I don't wear Khakis in the US either. What differences are there in professional UK attire and US attire?
Like is not wearing cuff-links in the UK really bad? Those things.
Anyone with more advice on my question of breaking in as an American - I would really appreciate it.
Generally IBD is full of euros, trading full of brutish uncultured english people(this is obviously vast generalization so I will not respond to any hating)
Dress code wise, stuff that would be perceived as ridicoulus in the states(like interns wearing cufflinks on first day) is generally not as looked down upon in uk. Just dress smart, more on the formal side and youll be fine.
Hey "Dorian Key" stop being a lazy fat fuck and making stupid excuses for going to a non target. A small number of people in American University go to IB every year, both BBs and boutiques. If it helps your confidence, Gary Cohn went to American.
I interviewed with gs ibd uk and a few others as a non uk citizen with a sub par gpa. Yes it looks like its already late if you don't already have contacts, but email hr, mds, analysts etc and schedule a phone info session.Apply and right after you do that, follow up with your contacts and indirectly let them know you have applied.
Seems like you aren't hungry enough. I'll tell you one thing, IBs in uk expect US applicants to apply much earlier than the deadline, so start sending those emails.
Sorry buddy but I think you are missing the point here. Dorian was simply asking for advice on the corporate culture in the uk and on networking approaches. Not on applying for jobs... So I suggest you keep your ignorant comments to yourself next time instead of looking like an ass.
Dorian I don't think wearing button sleeve shirts will penalise you, but the dress sense can be more formal here so double cuff is very common, dark navy suits and grey suits two or three buttons, smart polished shoes preferred. Networking here is not as aggressive as in the us. Less cold calling and mailing at the junior level. As you will be joining a smaller boutique make sure to know everyone in the firm. These guys are unlikely to move to BB later on as people usually go in the other direction so branch put and go out and meet people at other banks. Doing a masters at LSE, Cass or Imperial later on could also be beneficial.
Good luck
I wonder why people get so emotional here. Smoothy, didnt intend to put dorian down. If you read his earlier posts, he asks about applying for jobs in IB. The underlying message of my post was networking is the same, email people talk/meet with them and apply., so stop acting like an emotional bitch.
Plus, you are giving bad advice. You arent going to get an interview with BBs with a 3.3 from a non target. First off, a high 2:1 is a minimum requirement. Next, getting a work visa to work FT is not the smoothest of tasks. I have/am working at a BB in London and have good relationships with recruiters so STFU. AGGRESSIVE NETWORKING is very important and having this boutique experience would help him.
And dont waste your time with Cass if you want IB. if you cant get into LSE, Warwick, and LBS MiM are good alternatives.
alreadyrich,
Great advice, Its great to hear from a person who's actually there. Are you an American working in London? About your advice on Masters or MBA, I do eventually plan to do that but I need 2-3 years work experience first. For now I'm trying to find the best way to position myself in the recruiting process in London as an American fresh out of undergraduate without a masters as my first real job.
Smooth_Nico,
Thanks for your response, 1 question. What do you mean "networking is not as aggressive here as in the US"? Anything I should avoid?
From the tips at Mergers and Inquisitions - I figured my networking approach should be something like this. After 1 month of working at my internship, getting to know everyone, I should ask the people in ib departments for contacts in the industry call them and then try to meet with them. I should attend every ib recruiting event in London, join any student organizations at Kings College where I'd be studying part-time and attend their business school events. Cold-calling is a last resort, but I'll probably end up doing that. Is this looked down in the UK?
I'd appreciate any pointers and advice in my networking strategy.
Hey Dorian. Please ignore my advice. I am also american working at an american BB in M&A in London, but I am obviously an idiot and an emotional bitch that needs to STFU as kindly worded by alreadyrich.
Good luck
@ smooth. You start work in Citi M&A June 2011 as you have said in your earlier posts. You are in Cass business school, so yes STFU and stop lying you currently work in M&A.
Dorian, in your case, networking needs to be aggressive. You are in the right direction, haven gotten an internship with a boutique. Fair enough, networking is not very important if you go to a target school in the Uk, but thats not the case. Network as much as you can and yes the american way, apply and im sure you'll be fine.
Good Luck
Smooth_Nico,
What? I am not heeding alreadyrich over you or anything. I'm definitely listening to everyone with a open-mind. Your advice about making sure to meet OTHER people outside the boutique working at BB is invaluable. I didn't know most people at boutique will NEVER be at BB and most people at BB eventually go down to boutiques. I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Alreadyrich,
I will network the American way with the strategy I listed. Thanks for your help!
thanks for confirming my relevance alreadybitch. you seem to be quite the stalker. and i think you can stalk me a little more, and follow me on my way to work tomorrow as I continue to advise on one of the largest cross-border deals in my sector this year. And yes, I am a graduate of Cass, which in London competes very well with LSE and Imperial.
My suggestion to Dorian is to try and network and apply online for london SA positions, and to then enroll on a masters degree at either LSE (MSc Accounting & Finance, or Finance and Private Equity), (MSc Finance) Imperial or Cass (MSc Accounting & Finance). I guarantee you that these three universities are the most common at assessment centers for finance background students. Alreadybitch suggested Warwick, but those guys aren't around that much, and are not as strong as the three i just mentioned.
Just to clarify on my boutique comment. It's a great learning environment for you, and you can pitch it to the BBs in a way that makes it look like you were able to take on a lot of responsibility earlier on. People do go from boutiques to BBs, but generally the direction is the other way around, and the staff at boutiques is made up of VPs and MDs from the BBs.
Also worth checking out is http://askivy.net/ they have lots of advice for london ibanking.
PM me for any more details, one more post and I will have bitchy quoting my address...
That site is GREAT. SA - is Summer Analyst right?
Isn't recruiting for SA positions at banks already over? I'll try my best, but Smooth what kind of time frame are you recommending here?
Something like:
Spring 2011 - my intern at boutique thru University program Summer 2011 - SA position in London (isn't this too late?) Fall 2011&S2012 - return to university finish Senior year Summer - Fall 2012 look for job?
applications close soon for most SAs i believe so get cracking! and make sure to include a line on your resume for what your internship at boutique will include.
if you are succesful on your SA you will get offered a FT position so focus on getting one of these
Will do!
also I apologize for basic ignorance of terms as I'm new: what is a FT position? Front-Desk Trading? or something, sorry just couldn't find it on Google.
SA positions in London/Europe: networking the American Way or more Formal? (Originally Posted: 02/06/2018)
Looking to get into a BB summer analyst position next year. The overwhelming concensus on these forums is that in the US, networking is almost essential and that the ones that apply online have a much lower chance that got in "through the know." Is the process similair in the UK for the usual BB and Boutique suspects?
Based on past posts, there is less reliance on networking and the process is more formal? How much weight does this observation have? Are openings already filled up before the applications for SA positions even get listed?
Thanks and Cheers.
All the guys I spoke to for london SA positions said that they did zero networking, just applied online, and then cracked the interview (but they were all from targets). But they said that they networked during their SA stint and that it was crucial to convert.
From what I know, the process in the UK is more streamlined , relying more on tests, case studies and assessment centers rather than networking. However, networking is still beneficial. Not as essential as in the US, but it never hurts to have someone pushing for you from the inside, especially if you're coming from a non-target.
Also, most people in the UK break in following the spring week>SA>FT path.
Can you put this in context in light of the average academic year. In my case, I have an undergrad that's from a target in the US. I'm starting an MSc in a related field from a UK target which starts from September 2018. As I understand it,one must apply for '18 summer analyst position by September. How does one then apply for spring week?
Do you apply for both together, one before the other, etc? The main concern here is that if you just apply for spring week, the deadline for the SA goes and one has to wait a year.
Apologies for any lack of knowledge displayed. Looking forward to learn though.
Networking is absolutely not required in Europe although for some situations very helpful. Process here is much more standardized and usually you just apply online. There are two ways to increase your chances for an offer:
Spring week: great way to get your foot in the door, usually quite a few people get SA offers or fast tracked to AC. This is how I got my SA offer. Btw websites always mention 1st year students only but I can tell you from experience that you ll find a really mixed group, e.g. first year students, master students in 3 year master programmes, or bachelor 2/3 students. It is important though that HR knows you plan to join as intern next year and FT the year after that. With 'you plan' I mean that it fits your programme. We had people who would finish all their studies after the SA stint and just take a gap year. Of course in the application they were saying some BS like 'plan to do a second master' etc.
On campus events: many people from the SA class have been recruited through on campus event. Usually the big firms have some kind of workshop/presentation/dinner with some students. Note that some are fast tracked to phone interviews, however, often they ask you to apply online again but they already have your name.
Networking can be useful for situations like "why do you wanna work for this firm?" and also for mentoring. You will find people who are willing to help you with checking your CV etc, however, few people will forward your CV to HR just because you went for a coffee with them.
Its more structured here, if your online application and CV are good you'll be progressed to the next stage. However, networking helps get past the CV screens.
Will networking in the UK get you an interview? (Originally Posted: 06/13/2012)
I understand the cultures in the UK and US in terms of networking are quite different in how you go about it but I wondered if anyone in the UK has had personal experience or knows of anyone who has networked their way into a summer internship or summer internship interview and thereby skipping the application process?
The reason I ask is because I am now in regular contact with an employee of a BB, his position is Director and I have met him once and will be meeting him again soon, he has been very friendly and helpful especially since I come from a non-target (and he knows that). Their advice has so far been invaluable and my hope is that I will be able to convert this relationship into an interview for a summer analyst role for next summer.
I just wondered what the chances are of that happening. Please bear in mind this is the UK and I have read that the networking cultures can sometimes be different than the US
Yes, unequivocally yes.
It works but I agree, it seems to be a bit different than in the US. I don't see cold calling working here as well as in the US but developing a relationship and meeting the person outside of work to get advice and a referall - sure. It seems like you're on the right track.
I've never heard of anyone skipping the application process though - save for exceptional cirmustances (e.g. your father is the CEO of a large client) you will have to go through interviews. If your contact vouches for you then you will have much easier time because the interviewer will know you have someone senior backing you.
Thanks for the assurance people!
And when I say "skipping the application process" I dont mean straight into an SA position I just meant skipping the online applications/online numerical tests and go straight to first round interview
This has happened to me.
Ah, amazing! You have put my mind at ease
UK Networking --> Offer (Originally Posted: 11/09/2012)
Anyone here, in the UK/Europe, used networking to land a summer offer/full time offer in investment banking?
I keep reading that students in the USA are fast tracked to the final round etc if they network but I'm wondering if is happens here (UK/Europe)?
Do you still have to apply online, complete the tests, the initial interviews etc in order to land something even if you have contacts?
Seen it before. I was fast-tracked with a BB in London this way in September.
Cool - what stage were you fast tracked to? AC?
yup, me.
No AC, 2 competency interviews only. A good recommendation goes a long way.
Ok
My personal experience with networking in the UK is rather bleak. Even with contacts with whom I have kept in touch I've had limited success. Networking with smaller firms always went much better than with BBs and I think this can at least in part be explained by the smaller HR screen these firms have. For some of the bulge brackets I think the level of HR control over the process is overwhelming and so it really limits what your contacts can do for you. Most times people seem to just get told to apply online. I know of others who have D/MD-level contacts who managed to secure informal internships, but nothing else. I also know someone who had a very high level contact in Asia which landed him an internship, but they've been unable to transfer this into anything in the UK, despite having received an offer (they won't even interview him/her for a London role).
Not saying it's impossible, just a few thoughts. I really think it varies by firm.
Out in London for the summer. Networking Advice? (Originally Posted: 06/09/2013)
Greetings fellow Monkeys!
I will be out in London for six weeks attending LSE's summer school and I wanted to know if anyone had any advice on networking with people in the industry out there. I really want to make my time worth while during my stay and make the most connections that I can.
Thanks for your help guys!
Justin
.
Networking in the UK success stories? (Originally Posted: 06/12/2015)
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I've been invited to ACs at top BBs and MMs after impressing representatives that have come on campus. Networking here can help secure interviews but after that it is up to you.
I received several interviews at BBs / EBs due to networking. It can be done.
Nice one. Did you land a job? Did you also network through on campus recruiting or did you do something else?
Got put on a shortlist for a full time/SA next year at an elite boutique. Currently doing my M&A internship at a boutique.
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