Networking is useless?
So I was just done talking with an alumni and also recruiter at a BB (think Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs) in Canada, and I was told that networking is useless at breaking into investment banking and they only look at the top gpa's at target schools. So if you are a non-target you basically have 0 chance of breaking in.
Yup, your one instance of anecdotal evidence proves networking is useless, contrary to what most others have posted on here. I suppose Patrick should shut down the site, no need to have it up anymore.
Cuncel the website
all but two of my interviews were through networking.
Then how did the alumni make it to that firm?
Did MBA and got interview on campus.
the part about having near zero chance if you're at a non-target is true, but there's a big difference between zero and near zero. all you can do is try your best and maybe you'll get lucky, and generally speaking the only way to get a shot as a non-target IS networking, so...
Networking is everything.
2nd the comment above. There are few hurdles that a network can't help overcome.
Having said that, it may be harder to BUILD a strong network when at a non-target, but for those who do, it's invaluable.
Generally speaking, networking is useless when there are no opportunities in the firm of the person you are networking with. However the caveat is, it might be the case in the future that someone needs your skills and they reach out to you via the person you were previously speaking to.
Case in point: something like 1 in 4 people were recruited in my previous PE employer just because they knew someone at the firm. Similar colleagues were offered jobs at PE houses because they worked with clients who liked them and offered them jobs.
Everyone you meet is useful, just try and remember very few can actually give you a job there and then when you really want it, have patience and it will come eventually.
Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I didn't mean to sound like an asshole in my original post. I am also from a non-target school. The only problem I find with networking is that it is very hard to develop real relationships from just meeting for coffee with alumni and asking some questions about recruiting. Is there anything else I can do to leave a deeper impression, because these guys probably meet with many students and I want to be somewhat remembered?
Hey no worries buddy, it's a tough market and sometimes networking with people you don't necessarily like/ hold anything in common can be exceptionally boring and awkward when you're stood by yourself when everyone else is engaging in rapturous conversation!.
Networking with alumni may not only be the only place to go. Have you been able to become part of a private members club (not nightclub, but some successful financial people also frequent nightclubs a lot!).
I'm part of a private members club and we get networking opportunities every week or so, so that's why I mentioned it.
Also, when you are a networking event, remember to just tell everyone what your situation is, so if you're looking for a job, say so. And even if they come across negative, or say they don't know of any jobs point blank, usually people will feel bad and try to at least help, or give some good advice/ business card for you to use when you need to touch base in the future.
It's hard out there, but just keep trying, check out FB and any other social networking sites for when there is a networking opportunity, it may not be completely up your street, but you could meet some people that could open your eyes to what other opportunities are out there (not necessarily just IB, which I find are not up my street at all).
I feel getting into a career like IB is a combination of both. I would never say networking is useless because it can get you in touch with a lot of people that can get other positions that can eventually lead to IB. It's always good to have connects to stay in touch with also that can help you.
network useless (Originally Posted: 01/11/2015)
is networking really useless to getting a job into sales & trades or investment banking? Because from a story from what I heard it seems useless. A mother knew a Goldman Sachs recruiter and had his son try for interview. There was a problem though the same recruiter says "your son can get a interview but your son will never get the job because your son doesnt come from these sets of schools" Even if you networked with a 120 people you still cannot be guaranteed with employment. Is it true? if it false how does one start networking from the bottom.
False. Plenty of stores on here about how non-target kids managed to land in IB/S&T. Of course, the chances of you making the jump from No-Name College to Goldman or MS might be slim to none, but getting into a regional boutique/mid-market and working your way up is totally doable. In fact, networking will help you out MORE at the regional/local level than it will at the BBs (simply because at the BBs, you have to get past the AI screeners and HR first, both of whom are looking for very specific profiles).
How does one start networking? Use your alumni directory and LinkedIn. Search for people who work in your current local area in [IB/S&T/insert desired finance subfield here]. Send them emails asking for informational interviews. Go to said interviews with a list of intelligent-sounding questions. Keep in touch. Ask them to point you in the direction of another person who works in the area you're interested in. Mention you're job searching and ask for tips / referrals. Repeat until successful.
well thats because knowin a recruiter is pointless but knowing someone in a real position has more pull
can someone give me a layout for internships throughout years of college. A internsh What is the best start for freshmen?
The sooner you get a brand name on your resume, the better. With that said, don't forget to have some more unique (read: non-finance) extracurriculars/leadership positions on your resume to help you stand out.
Networking is the only reason I have a job right now. It works, you just have to know how to do it.
This isn't fucking China where a family member can get you a job through some connection Mr. Zhang. Now get your awkward face out there and do some real networking or go back to where you belong.
how does one get into bulge brackets when he has some credentials? Or there is just no way you can get in outsides of targets?
what are the sub fields for S&T
Negged.
Networking: Waste of time? (Originally Posted: 10/21/2014)
Hey guys,
I'm a student at a non-target looking for an internship for this coming summer in IB and in every thread about someone from a non-target (or a below average GPA), there's always some guy that tells the OP to "network like hell". Which is what I have been trying to do and I have actually come in contact with some analysts and the conversation has gone really well. I ask him about the bank and its culture, I ask his him for any advice he may have for a student like myself, and they give great insight to what I should know and how I should apply my skills. Which is great, but asking every analyst the same questions over and over again doesn't necessarily help me.
One of the analysts actually put me through all the way to the head recruiter for internships at the bank. The recruiter basically just told me how the recruiting process goes, barely asked me any questions about myself, and told me to drop my resume on the banks website.
I understand that networking is not a waste of time but am I going about it wrong? Am i contacting the wrong people? How do I turn these connections into interviews instead of just chats with people that don't really get me anywhere?
Any stories on how you have went about networking and it has landed you at least an interview?
I appreciate any insight you guys may have. Thanks.
I would recommend networking with people above the analyst rank. I had success going to my school's career services department and finding names of alumni currently working in investment banking (or whatever industry you want to target).
My school actually had a formal shadowing program, where the alumnus had agreed to host a student at work for a day. I don't remember the specifics on this, but I believe the alumni had to be in a fairly senior position. I reached out to as many alumni as possible and landed a few shadowing opportunities, one of which ultimately landed in a "warm referral" for an internship interview (an internship I ultimately got).
So to address your question, get a list of alumni from your school's career services office and/or alumni directory, then reach out to as many relevant contacts as possible. It seems like you are doing that but targeting people who are likely too junior to hold any sway in the internship hiring process. Try to make connections with more senior professionals.
Appreciate the help. Would asking for some higher ranking referrals to the connections I already made be a good strategy?
The secret from coming from a non-target is getting a hold of some alumni.
They will be willing to fight for you because in most cases, it's how they got here.
If you can find some connection, even if you have to do some searching (not stalker shit but maybe something off Linkedin/company website) and try to spin that too. I'd never advise getting into something because a potential lead MIGHT do the same, but it doesn't hurt.
You learn an analyst at a boutique from your school likes triathlons. Maybe pose a question when you meet him, "Do you find any time to get physical exercise very much, I'm starting to get into triathlons with my friend and can't really find what's the time obligation".
Boom you just asked about "culture or the firm" and paired it with his interest.
Can't hurt unless you're terribly awkward and in which case you're screwed.
The advice about going above analysts is pretty crucial, associates and above.
running the risk of giving myself away if any of my friends are on here, they know this story. here's my personal story starting winter of my junior year, just to illustrate the impact of networking.
winter: laid off
january: started getting back in lifeguard shape to try out for the ocean lifeguards (was considering moving home for this summer job, the pay is great)
february: eardrum ruptures, can't be in the water for 3 months, tryouts are in May, fuck that idea
march & april: looked for bartending jobs, struck out. went into a men's shop near a bar I got rejected at, got a job (had retail experience) at the shop. around the same time, the son of a big producer at a PWM firm got hired and we hit it off. I got an unpaid internship through him. worked at that firm for about 1 year.
fall & winter: retail + PWM internship + president of fraternity + networking + realizing that I'm looking at a shit job if I don't bust my ass
spring of senior year: career fair comes up, another PWM guy has a panel on what it's like to be a broker. my mentor told me to go, so I went
graduation: nothing in PWM, bullshit job taken
fall after graduation: hated job, called up PWM guy who did panel previous year, asked for intro to someone in his firm in my area (I moved away after graduation), he gave me intro
couple weeks later: met with guy from referral, talked for 2 hours, he referred me to someone at a bigger firm
week later: met with her from referral, talked for 1 hour, no openings but wanted to hire me, referred me to manager in another city
winter after graduation: met with him several times, got lucky, he's still my manager today. caveat: I started as an analyst, not a broker.
take this with a grain of salt, as PWM is very different from IB/ER, and I'm in the southeast (not deep south thank you) so I reckon thangs work a lil diffrintly round here y'all. in all seriousness, I couldn't have made this shit up. keep your ears to the ground and maintain relationships. when the time comes call on those people and ask for intros and advice, you'll be surprised at what happens. it does matter, and I'll tell you that I get emails and LNKD messages from kids from my chapter and my school asking what it's like to be a broker and 99% of them don't follow through. when you network, take it seriously. if you have any questions about my approach, feel free to ask here, while recruiting for IB & ER are more formal, I think the tenets of conversation and follow through don't change no matter if you're in bumfuck egypt looking for a job with acme securities or networking for a BB in midtown.
I wouldn't be where I am now without networking. A banker I had reached out to during summer analyst recruitment actually reached out to me after my SA stint to plug me into the interview process at his bank. Fast forward a few weeks, and I now have a FT offer.
Never underestimate the power of networking.
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