New York School of Finance - Thoughts?

Has anyone ever heard of / done the New York School of Finance program?

Its an 8 week program where you are enrolled in modeling coursed and they place you in an IB internship. I was wondering if anyone knew about this program.

 

@"mross2011" I just completed the Fall Program (Sept - Dec 2014) and I will try to be as honest as possible in my assessment

PROS:

Paul Pignataro - The New York School of Finance is run mainly by Paul Pignataro who writes the text books and conducts most of the lectures. Paul is extremely professional and likeable, willing to meet with you after class to go through your interview preparation, review your resume of offer networking advice. Paul has experience as recruiting for Morgan Stanley, so he will give you an honest appraisal of what you need to work on. He works extremely hard and genuinely cares about each student and I can't impress on you enough how valuable it is to have some time with him one on one to help you break into finance.

Financial Modeling - The course does a good job of covering how to build a complete financial model linking the Income Statement, Cash Flow and Balance Sheet and projecting them out. The course and text books cover this in a very easy to follow step by step guide.

Facilities - they use the Pace University building in the Financial District. The main auditorium is excellent, although they also use the upstairs lecture room with smaller groups. Overall, the facilities are excellent, and they also organize video conferencing of the lectures, so during our course we had people who had to go overseas/out of state for some of the duration of the course and they were able to still "attend" the lectures online.

Assistance - John Sarantakos who helps with administration of the school will help with Visa advice for international students, as well as advise on accommodation and preparation for the course. John also can offer you some advise or potential contacts with alumni which is invaluable. He really does put in the extra effort to make the most of your stay in New York and again, like Paul, genuinely comes across as caring about your career development.

Resume/Experience - if, like me, you had no prior industry experience, here is a chance through the work placement to put work experience in New York. While they do try to keep everyone busy, it is of course likely that those people who do good work/ easy to get along with get involved on larger transactions or have larger responsibilities. People struggling with the material/financial modeling/difficult to work with will ofcourse get the smaller projects/tasks. That is office politics and true for the working world, but I noticed some of the younger fresh graduates were surprised/not mature enough to accept this. If you put in the work, make a conscientious effort to double check evering and produce work of a high standard you are likely to get trusted to work on some of the plum transactions to put on your resume.

Other Students: the interaction with the other students/interns is excellent. You are all in the same boat, trying to break into finance, so you will likely find some people with similar ambitions and interests to you.

CONS / OTHER POINTS TO CONSIDER:

Firms: There were 2 small firms when I did the course where interns/anaysts were placed. This has changed in the past, and could change in the future depending on which firms need interns/analysts at that point in time, but it is worth mentioning that the two firms were wildly different in the setup and experiences. One firm had an excellent MD and some large transactions but the supervising analyst was inexperienced. The other firm had excellent supervising analysts who would sit down and review the work, were helpful and knowledgeable and open to discussion to improve the presentations, models and pitch books, but the management was often traveling, seemed largely unaware of what was happening on a daily basis and one person in particular was extremely unprofessional.

While I appreciate that most people who have been an intern at an Investment Bank would have experienced similar situations with their higher ups and it is par for the course in any industry that you will have to work with some difficult/unprofessional people, this situation is a little bit different as you are paying to be placed at a firm for the internship and as much as you are an intern, you are also a paying customer and basic tenets of courtesy and professionalism should be adhered to by all parties.

Now, this is a fluid situation, and it depends on who you end up with, but considering the money you are spending, you would do well to study for a week or two before the course on both the course material and the firms that will be hiring when you do the course to ensure you impress at the beginning and end up in the best situation possible.

Transactions: again - this will vary wildly, and as above, you want to be ahead on day one to get the better transactions and work with the best people. There were small transactions of around $10m - $20m and very large transactions up to ~$1bn. Again, if you prove yourself early, and are quick to put your hand up for work that interests you, you may be able to get involved with transactions relevant to your desired career path, be it FIG modeling, Oil and Gas / Mining, Manufacturing, Healthcare, Food & Beverage, Education, etc.

Complimentary Sources: I would highly recommend if you have the money also doing the BIWS courses (there was a special if you signed up for NYSF through BIWS but I don't know if that is still available) I would also strongly urge you to buy Joshua Rosenbaum's Investment Banking book which covers alot of tasks for Investment Banking, M&A and LBO activities.

MY PERSONAL SITUATION:

I enjoyed the experience, I managed to get some interviews with some bulge brackets which are still ongoing and am currently on full on networking mode. I wish I had done some networking from the first week of the course, and I would advise you to do so, as leaving it until the last month as I did is not ideal. BIWS has a networking guide that is well worth the money.

OVERALL:

NYSF has been honest on who the course is aimed at, it is a start in the industry, and are excellent at providing the educational and support functions of the program.

Each firm varies in types of transactions and training you would get, and the general culture and professionalism is not going to be anywhere near the types of firms you would get placed at, but if you are doing this course its because you could not get an internship at a bulge bracket - so this is understandable and a very decent option.

 

I was wondering if you could possibly shed some light on the application process? From understanding there is an interview process? What was that like? I am considering the fall, but not sure whether I need to prepare for the interview.

 

Schematik, much thanks for the thorough write-up. Were you concurrently enrolled in an undergraduate program at one of the NYC colleges while attending NYSF? What was the proportion of concurrent undergraduates to "full-time" NYSF students in your class?

 

Hey mate, If you find information i would love to know some info, i saw the New York School of Finance post yesterday. Currently in Australia at the moment but i was thinking of doing an exchange at Bentley coz i heard i they have a good a finance program for a semester and then after that since i was in the area, doing the New York School of Finance program. Do you know, how much it costs and other details

 
AndyK:
Hey mate, If you find information i would love to know some info, i saw the New York School of Finance post yesterday. Currently in Australia at the moment but i was thinking of doing an exchange at Bentley coz i heard i they have a good a finance program for a semester and then after that since i was in the area, doing the New York School of Finance program. Do you know, how much it costs and other details

Message from Paul, the founder:

It's a bit of both - there are live deals in the mix, but there are also a lot of pitches as well. The goal is to get you involved on the portion of the deals where financial modeling is utilized so you can have that on your resume. So, the deals may not always be "live" in the sense that they are about to close, but they are all "real" in the sense that the work is utilized for clients of the firm you are interning for. We are very open about this fact in the registration process, and we understand not everyone wants that.

We've set up the program this way as we quickly realized just putting you in any random banking internship does not necessarily mean you will do anything more than data digging, editing powerpoint, and setting up conference calls. We have also realized that the whole pitching process, including constructing comps, constructing your own models, conducting valuation analyses, and authoring pitch books is exactly the type of experience that hiring investment banks value. This type of work happens in the "pitching" process; not necessarily in the "live" phase. For that reason, I incentivize the partnering firms to get everyone in the program on more pitches in addition to intense financial modeling, no matter what stage the deal is at. That should be your number one priority.

We also have two hours of training every day which includes simulated deal cases. This is done so that you can be more effective during the internship. That may make one consider this more educational than not and I would agree. After all, you are paying for this program. And I have to make sure you are both learning and adding experience to your resume.

Further, if you can get a banking job on your own than you certainly don't need this program and we are very open about that.

I also want to note that we have done this for many years now and have a proven track record. Many have sucessfully utilized this program as a tool to gain a competitive edge in investment banking interviews. Please see our testimonials page for a list of where people have landed jobs recently:

www.nyschooloffinance.com/advantage_testimonials.html

Finally, I personally speak to every single student before they come into the program to be sure they have a clear understanding as to what the program is about and they know what they are getting themselves into. Again, it is not for everyone, and the last thing we want is unhappy students. Anyone reading this note is open to contact me at anytime.

 

I completed the NYSF program two years ago and, now on my final semester, just accepted FT analyst role at a leading MM bank. I go to a non-target school and enrolled in this program thinking it would be a good way to catch up to those I would be competing with. If you are not yet qualified to get land a summer analyst position at a MM/BB bank, this program is a perfect way to boost your resume. The hands on training you get in the classroom is unparalleled to the guides you can buy online or any finance classes you take during undergrad.

As an undergraduate student, I have always found that I learned much more reading textbooks on my own time than paying attention in class. This experience was different, and I would not have been ready for my recent string of interviews if I had tried to learn everything on my own. The way that the lecturer's challenge you to grasp the fundamentals and actually understand why an operating model is built the way it is will better prepare you to talk about financial modeling and make you stand out in interviews. During the internship, you will be staffed on live deals. I have the transactions listed on my resume, and called Paul Pignataro a few times over the last month to brush up on the details expecting to be asked in depth about them during my interviews - I was correct.

To wrap up my thoughts, I can't recommend the school enough. Administration is determined and hardworking, and truly cares about the students. Of the five students that I kept up with from two summers ago, three are working analyst positions at BB banks, one is in private equity, and one decided that i-banking was not for him after actually having to work the hours ( I have also seen several other students land solid roles via LinkedIn, but I haven't investigated further). Accepting the recent position aside, I am glad that I made my way into this program when I could. MM/BB Banks are starting to realize that the students that come from this program, that have earned the recommendation from Paul/Luis, are worth investing in. I am expecting alumni of the program to continue succeed in IB/PE and drive this program to become a well-known name on Wall St.

I don't check in on this website too often, but if you have any questions about my experience please feel free to inbox me.

 

I'm currently looking into joining the program in September and would love to be able to chat with someone who has taken the program for a minute. Although there are some poor reviews I can't imagine it being as poor an experience as some people are saying in the forums.

I finished my Finance/Economics undergrad program in April, and wrote the CFA 1 exam in June, from where I stand however it is still next to impossible to just enter the investment banking industry. I live in Toronto and would love to be able to get I banking work here, or work in New York. Regardless of how expensive the program is I feel like it would still be extremely valuable to be able to put that you took a program specifically to help with I banking training, while being able to put an internship in New York on your resume.

If someone whose taken the program wouldn't mind exchanging some emails it would be much appreciated.

 

I took this program last fall and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Yes, it costs a lot, but in comparison to an MBA it is dirt cheap - think 5% to 20% the cost of an MBA in terms of Straight $ paid as well as opportunity cost. Arguably this program teaches you much more about IB than even top-tanked MBA programs. Here is the interview I gave BIWS a few months ago:

Every single day, there's one question I get over and over via email, comments, and even carrier pigeon (yes, somehow people discovered my address...):

"What should I do next?"

"Can you tell me exactly what to do to improve my chances of getting job/internship X?"

After 8 years of these questions, I've developed an answer that works in almost any scenario:

1) Get the best internship or work experience you can

2) Make sure your GPA and school name are "good enough" (above 3.5, and ideally 3.8 or above)

3) Focus on at most 1-2 activities outside school/work

4) And spend the rest of your time networking

The hardest part is point #1: getting the best possible work experience.

You can network and recruit on your own to do this...

or you could use a "shortcut method" and get in via an option I've recommended before: the NY School of Finance semester-long training program.

What Is It, And How Does It Work?

If you're reading this, you've probably been getting my emails for a while... which means you've probably seen previous announcements about the program.

So I'm going to do something different this time around and share an interview with a student who recently completed the training and internship with the NYSF.

But just in case you're not familiar with the program, here's a quick summary:

-You get intensive training on accounting, 3-statement modeling, valuation, M&A and merger models, and leveraged buyouts and lbo models for 16 weeks (or 8 weeks in the half-semester version)

-And at the same time, you also complete an internship at a local boutique bank and do real work, contributing to deals and valuations and working with clients

So this is NOT some 2-3 day "boot camp" where you go in, learn a few new Excel tricks, and then forget everything immediately after.

Instead, it's a way to absorb the skills at a deep level over an extended period.

And more importantly, you get real results: previous students have placed at firms like Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Moelis & Co., Centerview, Citi, and Credit Suisse.

OK, But Will It Really Work for You?

I always like to speak with current and former students, so I've chatted with a few over the past week.

Here's a "composite" interview of what they told me about their experiences:

Q: What was your background prior to enrolling in the NYSF program? And what were the other students coming from?

A: I was making a career change, moving from the trading / public markets side over to M&A.

Other peoples' backgrounds varied widely: some were university students, others were at the MBA level, and still others were like me, making a career change after working in another field for a few years.

Q: What were the best and worst parts of the program?

A: The best part was Paul Pignataro, the Founder and lead instructor.

He was incredibly generous with his time, and was always willing to help us with our resumes, interview questions, financial modeling skills, and more.

You could never get this in a traditional internship because people are too busy to take the time out to train you.

The other "best part" was that I gained a much deeper conceptual understanding of financial modeling, even compared with people who have been in finance for years.

You really understand why you're doing everything and what the purpose of your work is.

The worst part was that there wasn't a ton of structure to the internship itself - you got out of it what you put into it.

So you need to be really proactive about asking for work and making sure you're learning new skills.

Q: What were everyone's results in terms of job offers?

A: Some students received offers during the program, others received them in the months afterward, and others are still looking right now.

It definitely takes time to line something else up, so you should allow at least 4-6 months after finishing the program for that.

As for me: after the program finished, I joined a different M&A
boutique bank and have been completing an internship there.

So I still haven't won a full-time IB offer, but I am getting closer.

Q: Any sense of the percentage of students who won offers?

A: I wouldn't be able to give you an exact percentage, sorry.

My Own Note Here: The Department of Education requires the NYSF, by law, to track students' placement rate.

The official placement rate is 92% over 600 students, and it has been 86% since 2014.

Those numbers foot with what I have seen and heard in other interviews I've conducted with NYSF students as well - if you put in the time and effort, your chances of securing job offers are very good.

Q: So what was the difference between students who received offers and those who did not?

A: Once you join the program, you quickly learn who knows their stuff and who does not.

And you're at a pretty big disadvantage if you don't have at least some knowledge of Excel / accounting / CFA-related topics.

Beyond that, the biggest thing is how proactive you are, especially on the networking side.

Sometimes students with weaker technical skills still won offers - IF they had good connections at banks.

Q: Let's say someone reading this right now is considering the program.

How could he/she decide whether or not it's appropriate?

A: If you are extremely motivated to get into the finance industry and you are willing to put in a ton of time and effort, it's for you.

You should also have at least some background in Excel, accounting, and financial statement analysis because it would be tough to come in as a complete newbie and get as much out of it.

If you just think it "might be nice" to work in this industry, stay far away because it's not for you.

Finally, if you're an international student you need to be careful with your Visa status - if you can't stay in the country for at least 4-6 months, it might be tough to leverage the program directly into a job in the US afterward.

How Do You Apply and Get Free Bonuses?

First off, make sure that you're actually serious about doing this.

Yes, the program is effective... but it's also a significant commitment of time and money.

You cannot expect to show up, pay the enrollment fee, sit around slacking off, and then magically win job offers.

The program lasts for 16 weeks and it costs about what you'd pay for half a semester at a private university in the US.

It is an incredible deal for the amount of training you get, but it is also more of a commitment than online courses or books.

If you're OK with that and you're confident that you can complete the program, click the link below to submit your application:

The fall session of the program starts on August 31st, 2015, and runs through December 18th, 2015.

You should apply by Monday, August 3rd to have the best shot at participating in the program.

Please click the link below to submit your application:

Your Bonus for Enrolling and Common Questions & Answers

If you apply, get accepted, and enroll in the NYSF Advantage program, you will receive free access to our BIWS Premium financial modeling course.

It's worth $497, but you can get it for free once you enroll in the NYSF program via our sign-up link.

The Premium package has over 140 hours of video on accounting, valuation, M&A, and LBO modeling - everything you need to reinforce and master the concepts after the program has ended.

We released a new version last year that includes 8+ case studies based on companies from all over the world (China, Japan, Korea, the UK, France, Australia, and the US) in different industries; it's the only course on the market that teaches modeling in a global context.

You must actually enroll in the NYSF program to receive this free bonus - you do not get the bonus just by applying.

Click the link below and sign up by Monday, August 3rd to take advantage of this special offer: Questions?

I'm sure you have a few:

Q: Locations?

A: Just New York City for now. You can complete this if you're in another country, but you'd have to come to NYC to do it.

Q: Other sessions?

A: Yes - there's one in the fall, winter, and summer each year.

So if you can't make this one, do one of the others instead.

Q: Other enrollment / payment options?

A: You can also sign up for half a session, and you can pay in installments as well.

Q: How is it different from your courses / other classroom training?

A: The main difference is the internship - while you'll learn a lot with the BIWS courses, you're doing that learning on your own.

This experience gives you a chance to apply your skills to a real firm, and to get the all-important "investment banking internship" on your resume.

It also adds up to something like 200+ hours of training over ~3 months, so it's quite comprehensive.

Good luck, and please let me know if you have any questions.

-Brian

Brian DeChesare Mergers & Inquisitions Breaking Into Wall Street

 

I also got accepted. How did you pay for the tuition? Did you get personal student loans? I'm asking because I don't have the money.

kmonkey
 

It's an interesting concept, but the accounts praising it are "suspect" to say the least.

Is there any way that we can clamp down on this or get the mods to look into whether these are legitimate users? If their IP addresses all trace back to the same block in Manhattan that's a pretty clear indication they're not. Based on the writing style(use some literary forensics, looking at sentence length, cadence, use of grammar, etc) and all the "reviews" seem like the same person.

 

NYSE is definitely a real exchange, not a scam

I wish i could shove my dick so far up your dick that it creates a gaping vagina, because that's who you are. Just tell them that you're a ginormous douche-canoe with a gaping vagina. They'll understand.
 

How legitimate are NYSF's "internships" ? I saw they often match their students with boutiques but which ones exactly? Do you really gain relevant experience? Do banks think negatively of you when they see NYSF or its partner boutiques on your resume?

Btw, I'm debating between a an offer at a BB's MO and NYSF. Cost is a consideration but I'm willing to take the chance if NYSF offers an absolute advantage for JR. year recruiting. Does it?

 

Please people,do not, I repeat,DO NOT waste your time and money on NYSF. They are a scam,real scam! They 'place' you at boutique firms they are associated with and probably pay the firms kickbacks,mind you,you pay over 10 grand to work for three months without pay,banking hours,meaning until 1 or 2 am most days. Take an IB course online or something,just don't consider this place as an option. You will regret it. I know I did!

 

I wish someone could give a decent answer to this question on here...not just "its expensive, your better off networking" or blatant promo posts from the school itself

I wish i could shove my dick so far up your dick that it creates a gaping vagina, because that's who you are. Just tell them that you're a ginormous douche-canoe with a gaping vagina. They'll understand.
 

Having done the program myself, I found it to be particularly useful if you decided to 'Break Into Wall Street' pretty late. What it gives you is a fundamental understanding of financial modelling e.g. building DCFs, spreading com parables & so on, some finance experience on your resume. Coupled with that, if you have a solid GPA, extra-cirriculars, you should get a couple of first-round interviews at the very least.

 

Just came across your post and thought I’d give you an overview of what NYSF’s Advantage program was really like. After reading some of the comments about it on WSO, I can’t help but wonder why anyone would have anything negative to say about the program if they didn’t actually take part in it themselves. I did! And, I got a lot out of it.

It’s an excellent way to gain a marketable financial modeling skillset and relevant work experience you will need to compete against candidates with higher GPAs from better schools. This is not to say that it’s the right opportunity for everyone. But, for those who either don’t have an IB internship on their resume or didn’t do much modeling in the one they did participate in, the NYSF Advantage program is a great choice. Now, this is all granted that you have the drive and stamina to put in the effort to succeed. After all, as with anything else, it’s your persistence that yields success. By the way, if you haven’t started networking or have not been diligent about it you should get to it ASAP and do as much as you can prior to starting the program.

So about the program… It consisted of case-study based financial modeling training and an internship at a boutique investment bank. Generally, Monday through Thursday, we were in a class-room setting from 9 - 11 AM and at the IB firm where we interned from noon to around 8 PM. But, it was always up to us to stay as late as we felt we needed to in order to get our work done. The way the program was structured, with two hours of training then the internship, it really helped us better understand and retain the content and be more productive at the firm where we were interning.

At training, we covered a variety of cases and deal types providing a deeper understanding of critical topics such as M&A, LBO, capital raising, among other transaction advisory services. The goal was to develop a solid foundation in financial modeling and to be able to talk about our transactions in an interview. Quite often, we were asked to contribute to the discussion to make sure that we were able to substantiate our claims. This, not only led to better understanding and retention of the material but, forced us to field numerous potential interview questions.

The internship portion of the program gave me a chance to work on team and individual assignments in various sectors. On a team with three other analysts, using the skills we were acquiring in training, we all built comprehensive financial projection models and performed comparable companies, precedent transactions, DCF, M&A and LBO analysis. This experience helped all of us transform our resumes and provide immediate value to any boutique, mid-market or bulge bracket IBD. I’m sure you’ve done this already, but take a look at the testimonials on NYSF’s web site. Those are all real people who used the program to gain an edge in the interview process.

I hope this helps you in making a rational decision. Best of luck!

 

A couple red flags with these guys. 1) The internships don't seem to be too legit, 2) No price listed, 3) changed their name

What's their price point (full tuition for the program)? Also how much do they charge for the "internship"?

I was talking to someone who was interested in competing in this space.

 

The NYSF that you mentioned is good if you have $$ to spend in addition to whatever program you are currently taking. It, for 1 full semester costs roughly 20k, not accounting food and housing in the city..... Unless your parents can help yopu out tremendously, its very expensive. It is a good program though as they give you actual work experience, but you pay to work at an IB.But honestly if your in an MSF program, why not just go through your school's OCR instead of shelling out big cash for the same result. Also network with alumni if possible. Hope that helps.

I hope this is better than the last batch of shit you gave me. Produced more wood than Ron Jeremy. I don't want you to yell, "Reco!" anymore. Know what you should yell? "Timber!" Yeah, Mr. Fuckin' wood.
 
murtazanazir:

I m an msc finance student unfortunately i have no experience and i am 23 years old i mean no interns but really keen to work in investment banking can someone please guide me through exactly what should be my career step i mean an optimistic view about every thing pleas mates,,,,,

Step 1: Learn to use a period. Step 2: Ban yourself.

speed boost blaze
 

Masters in Finance makes zero sense. IB hire analysts from undergrad that have the right background and internships. IB hire associates out of the top MBA programs.

Masters in Finance means you're too senior for 1st year Analyst (which is also a waste of money since you could have gotten the job out of undergrad) and too junior for Associate.

Also nothing is a substitute for work-experience. 2-3 solid internships would have been better than a Ms. Finance.

My banks def. does not hire Masters in Finance kids esp. if from an international background.

 

MSC finance makes zero sense what are you talking about 1st you should be optimistic, second i have a bachelors in business administration majoring in financial management, never had goals bt NW i do and i am confident,third you r ryt nothing can replace exp but 4th wy shd i ask ur guidance or suggestions if i had work exp or internships, 5th wht do you mean by international?

 

The NYSF is a great way to get experience and it looks great on your resume. I've done the program myself and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants to get into investment banking and doesn't have any IB experience. The experience will also help you get into other fields in finance so do it if you don't have any related experience in the field you want to pursue and that values the skills you use in IB. Friends of mine who have also taken the program have landed great jobs after it. Don't expect to get a job in investment banking just because you have taken the program. You still need to network extensively and get interviews which isn't easy, but the program will definitely help make you a stronger candidate. If you have the money and you’re willing to put in the work, do it!

 

Hi there,

The NYSF program is a solid program to gain foundational experience in the IB space. The current program has been fined tuned to deliver topics in layers of complexity while providing various options of participation depending on individual skill-level and overall intent. I'm from the west coast and had a chance to go out east for the program early last year. The experience definitely stands out on a resume as a solid complement to other work experience. I, myself, had no previous experience in finance and was not specifically targeting IB but do know others who took the program at the same time and were landing interviews and informational sessions with IB firms by the fourth week. Paul Pignataro, the founder of the program, has extensive experience with investment banking and originally put the program together as a way for new entrants to bridge the experience gap. At the analyst level, the material goes well beyond the basics of investment banking and also dives into private equity topics. I had recently completed an MBA before starting the program and wanted the modeling experience. Upon completion, it became an important point on my CV as field specific credibility. The rest just comes down to what the whole CV looks like and how well you spin the experience gained.

I would highly recommend reaching out to Paul directly from the program contact page for anyone interested in the program as he is a straight shooter and provides the value-added benefits in a straight-forward way. The price point for the entire program is comparable to full-semester tuition but there are other options that cater to different price points and time duration.

Good-luck and hope that helps.

Cheers,

PD

 

The Advantage program offered by NYSF is an excellent way to gain a marketable financial modeling skillset and relevant work experience you will need to compete against candidates with higher GPAs from better schools. This is not to say that it’s the right opportunity for everyone. But, for those who either don’t have an IB internship on their resume or didn’t do much modeling in the one they did participate in, the NYSF Advantage program is a great choice. Now, this is all granted that you have the drive and stamina to put in the effort to succeed. After all, as with anything else, it’s your persistence that yields success. By the way, if you haven’t started networking or have not been diligent about it you should get to it ASAP and do as much as you can prior to starting the program.

So about the program… It consisted of case-study based financial modeling training and an internship at a boutique investment bank. Generally, Monday through Thursday, we were in a class-room setting from 9 - 11 AM and at the IB firm where we interned from noon to around 8 PM. But, it was always up to us to stay as late as we felt we needed to in order to get our work done. The way the program was structured, with two hours of training then the internship, it really helped us better understand and retain the content and be more productive at the firm where we were interning.

At training, we covered a variety of cases and deal types providing a deeper understanding of critical topics such as M&A, LBO, capital raising, among other transaction advisory services. The goal was to develop a solid foundation in financial modeling and to be able to talk about our transactions in an interview. Quite often, we were asked to contribute to the discussion to make sure that we were able to substantiate our claims. This, not only led to better understanding and retention of the material but, forced us to field numerous potential interview questions.

The internship portion of the program gave me a chance to work on team and individual assignments in various sectors. On a team with three other analysts, using the skills we were acquiring in training, we all built comprehensive financial projection models and performed comparable companies, precedent transactions, DCF, M&A and LBO analysis. This experience helped all of us transform our resumes and provide immediate value to any boutique, mid-market or bulge bracket IBD. I’m sure you’ve done this already, but take a look at the testimonials on NYSF’s web site. Those are all real people who used the program to gain an edge in the interview process.

I hope this helps you in making a rational decision. Best of luck!

 

I would highly recommend the NYSF program to those who do not have IB experience and/or recent grads. I was with NYSF for a full winter session this year, and the internship experience of NYSF outstanded my resume when I was in the job market in February, and the technical knowledge that I learned there just help me survive from a 2-hour interview yesterday. Currently I have two live interviews ongoing, and I am still using the study notes at NYSF to prepare for them. Some of the technical questions that I have been asked in the interview process are taught by NYSF.

Prior to NYSF, I was a pure accountant with some experience in accounting, but with zero working exposures to Investment Banking industry. My understanding of financial modeling was all about corporate finance. I learned a lot about financial modeling, M&A model, and lbo model. The lectures at NYSF were great, and the case studies were much better. My learning curve was pretty high in terms of financial modeling and IB knowledge. The internship experience at NYSF helped me exercise the knowledge and skills. NYSF people are really nice. They helped me a lot about my resume, cover letter, even the cold email template. They helped me mock the interview for more than five times, and I landed a job offer in early April. I would say without the experience of NYSF, I donot think I could step into the IB industry in such a fast and effective way.

Even though the investment in NYSF is expensive, but in my case, my ROE is much higher than my expectation.

Hope my experience could help you a little bit, Good luck,

 

Lots of 1 banana posts worshiping this program which is effectively for people incapable of getting superdays/offers themselves while paying an incredible amount of money to attend. I can see they are at least using some of their revenue for advertisers/spammers. Sure. You might get some workforce experience or familiarity with modeling and whatnot but so does an actual internship that pays money w/ people that have selected you because you agree with the culture and are smart/capable enough to do the job.

Just a heads up nosilverbullet also posted in the other NYSF post http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-is-new-york-school-of-finance

 

Hayjaykay-HATER! Why don't you just apply to NYSF and experience the program for your self? Don't you have anything else better to do than accumulate banana points just to call your self "Senior Chimp" and sound credible? I mean grow up dude, I get the impression you’re the type of person that is never satisfy and will always focus on the negative instead of creating solutions or provide constructive feedback. I don’t know why anyone would pay any attention to you. Stop knocking down a program that is actually design to help people and has a good track record of doing so. You should try to create something that actually had a positive impact on someone’s life, maybe then you can post. In the mean time go and take a look of your self and grow up.

Enough said!

 

Could we have some of this NYSF evangelism removed. Some of the initial posts are informative (i.e. nosilverbullet) and add color to the program. Other posts sound like they come straight out of an infomercial. I have not seen a single con/downside about NYSF from the advocates ITT. If you're going to come out in support of the program and educate people about it, at least have a semi-balanced viewpoint.

 

I also am a 1 pt user who has taken the course so take my comment with a grain of salt. The program is very effective in teaching basic to intermediate financial modeling and preparing students for the interview process. Some other posts go into greater detail about the program structure so check those out for more information.

If you are looking to enter the finance industry but have little experience and an imperfect resume, NYSF could be a great fit. The rub is its pretty expensive and certainly outside the budget for most people. Its ideal for people who have limited work experience and no network in the finance community i.e. no way to get a foot in the door.

Upsides: Well-taught classes teaching hard skills; Great 1-on-1 coaching and advice on getting a job; Real internship experience in modeling potential transactions; For the fall session, smart and motivated classmates

Downsides: You are not paid; You pay a lot to take the course; Internship projects can spend more time on ppts than modeling (still good to learn but not necessarily what you are paying for); The program's primary partner firm is new to NY and is often doing more pitching than actual transactions.

 

I joined the program last year and it was very helpful for my first investment banking job in terms of financial modelling and interview skills as well as investment banking concepts. My key takeaway from the program is that I went through the whole process of valuation analysis, step by step, so that I know what to do when I get a new project.

The instructor and mentors are former experienced analysts from bulge brackets and it was interesting to see how they interpret data and make projections. I would highly recommend NYSF.

But this is obviously not the only factor to land an investment banking job, other internships, professional certificates, reference and gpa also count.

 

It's a good way to familiarize yourself with actual IB work such as modeling and pitch books. You learn a great deal but if you're expecting to land a BB or a reputable name, it's highly unlikely. Only a handful of people have done that program and landed reputable names. Most end up going to a regional boutique or going back to their home countries and working there. This assumes that you don't go to a target school. If you do, you can use this as experience to help land a summer or FT gig through your on-campus recruiting.

 
gcfernan1:

Hi guys,

Excellent Program . I took the program 2 years ago after graduate from Arizona State University on BA in Economics. I had the training where i was exposure to the whole process of Financial Modeling and Valuation . I got interviews with Credit Suisse and other boutique banks . The program is so valuable that i was able to work on a deal with Violy &CO( One of the most well known M&A Boutiques in wall street). Paul P. the head of the program had a contact with one guy who had his own business and needs someone portuguese native speaker because he was working with a brazilian textile deal. I had meetings with Violy &CO and had a taste of wall street even before get in. The program doesnt give you a job but for sure give you the right tools to get the job .

I find it so funny and weird that all your 4 posts are only related to this program, and they are the same in each thread hahaha....Clearly a NYSF employe hahaha

 

@nxristos:

I had a great experience with the program and in fact I have the program to thank for my current job. After getting hired at an investment advisory firm within 6 months of completing the program, I found out that my time at NYSF had been a huge factor in getting hired.

The program taught me how to create Excel models of a company in order to value it, which is far more practical and applicable knowledge than any college course I've ever taken. Paul certainly knew his stuff and it was obvious to me he loved teaching it too.

At the internship with Kerburn Rose, Luis was a pleasure to work with and was firm in his standards for good work. The experience was 100% relevant to financial modeling and not the kind of internship where you enter data or anything do equally mindless.

I learned more Excel in those few months than any other time in school. At work I spend a lot of time each day in Excel, and the internship's development of my Excel skills was a huge takeaway from the program. My coworkers know me as 'the Excel guy' and I have the internship to thank for that.

In addition to learning a surprising amount in a short amount of time and having valid experience to put on a resume, it's also a fantastic place to network. The students come from all over the world and the recommendations the analysts can give you are also very valuable. I even was contacted for interviews while in the program.

I can attest to the fact that the training and internship kick started my career in the financial world, and if you want to get your foot in the door, it's a great place to start.

 

Hey, I was a participant in the program back in 2013 and I will try to give you a balanced view so that you can make the best decision for yourself.

By way of background, I study in Australia and decided to do the program after studying abroad for a semester in Berkeley. Following that, I interned with the investment banking team of Barclays in 2014. Now let me lay out the pros and cons of the program:

PROS: - It most definitely is a CV booster if you haven't had any other finance-related experience. - Paul, who runs the program is a great guy and you can count on him to develop your modelling skills to the point that it shouldn't take too much preparation for the technical aspect of the interview. The way the program works is that in the mornings you have lecture-style classes on modelling and you get the chance to out that into practice via the internship component of the program in the afternoon, if you were wondering. - Apart from that, Paul is a guy you can count on to provide interview prep, career advice etc. - Among the 5 people that I was close with in the program, one ended up full-time at Citi NY after a stint at a boutique, one is with Macquarie Capital and another is currently with a boutique. Two ended up with non-finance-related odd jobs (see 'CONS')

CONS: - It is relatively costly and it is most certainly not a magic solution. By participating in it doesn't automatically guarantee you a assured pathway into investment banking. Other factors still come into play such as your grades, extracurriculars, networking etc. - It is up to you to make the best out of it. Obviously, there was a minority of people in the class who signed up for the NYSF program who were not too serious about it and did not end up with substantially better career outcomes.

That is my five cents worth. I hope that helps and please feel free to get in touch via pm should you have any other queries.

 

I’m wondering about the "IB Internships" with NYSF. I know they often match their students with boutiques but which ones exactly? Do you really gain relevant experience? Do banks think negatively of you when they see NYSF or its partner banks on your resume?

I'm curious because I'm debating between offers at several BB's MO and NYSF. I'm a soph. and paying for college on my own, so cost is a consideration, but I’m willing to take the chance if NYSF offers a clear-cut advantage for JR. year summer recruiting. Does it?

 

Interns presumably work for a shell company (subsidiary of the real boutique) preparing pitches to companies that will never be actually pitched to the companies, let alone get assigned on a life deal. It's a common legal structure to avoid any liability that firms advertising with 'paid-for' internships use. You may as well incorporate a Delaware LLP with a few friends and assign the title 'investment banking summer analyst' to yourself.

 

Hi, I would just wondering what the tuition was. I plan to take the 12-week IB+Internship program, and wonder if the tuition covers housing and everything else. Thanks!

 

I doubt it, but look for other advice also. Keep in mind that while you may get experience part-time for a semester, you won't be guaranteed any full-time offers after and you'll still be right back in the job market competing with everyone else (who got IB internships the "hard" way) for the IB jobs you want. I think a program like this would be worth it if you believe, for some reason specific to your situation, that this would allow you to become a better candidate than other candidates out there- otherwise, probably a huge waste of money.

Disclaimer: I did an IB training course (not one of these, just one of the more expensive financial modeling/theory courses- still much, much cheaper than this kind of course) and although the firm was no help at all in getting internships (even though they made big claims about how helpful they would be) I think having the course on my resume helped me get my IB SA internship.

 
xxx:
Do these programs put you in a well-known investment bank where you get to work on rewarding projects?
Absolutely not. You're paying a great deal of money for what is essentially an overpriced modeling class. There's 0 brand value, and if you put it on your resume, you'll get laughed at.

If you're desperate, you're not going to make it the easy way out. Are you in a target program? It's pretty much game over for most FT recruiting at this point in time but you need to leverage whatever network you have. If you don't have a network of at least friends in your year within the industry, you're looking at the wrong job and should pick something that better suits your social skills.

Start writing emails - if you are truly passionate about this, the people you speak to will be able to see that. If you have a network in China, leverage that as well (I actually hear JPM HK might be hiring a few more as a result of compliance checks failing).

 

I don't care about the modeling class. The program states it will put you in an internship. I'm really interested in that.

I'm not an international student (I'm a US Citizen) and I have several people in investment banking within my network, but nearly all of them are analysts. Wouldn't I need to know VPs or MDs to get the job?

 
xxx:

I don't care about the modeling class. The program states it will put you in an internship. I'm really interested in that.

I'm not an international student (I'm a US Citizen) and I have several people in investment banking within my network, but nearly all of them are analysts. Wouldn't I need to know VPs or MDs to get the job?

"Internship" in quotes. Just remember, research is an integral part of investment banking - it's best you pick up those skills now.

You asked some of these questions - will it place you into a well-known bank? No - both programs place you into what is a essentially a training program and NYSF will put you in an internal "bank" (http://www.kerburn.co.uk/Our_People.asp LOL). I put that in quotes because they don't actually run live deals, but may simulate some as part of the training.

Analysts pick resumes at most of the bulges for first rounds and do have influence on lateral hires.

 

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying these program place you in a company that doesn't do live deals? But then are these companies for? Plus if I can get training and placed into a BB, then that sounds like a valuable experience, even if overpriced.

And I got to a non-target school (WashU).

And maybe I need lessons in networking, but I don't get how it progresses. The only people I can talk to are analysts and they rarely have time to talk in the first place.

 
xxx:
I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying these program place you in a company that doesn't do live deals?
That's correct. They're all no-name firms - in the case of NYSF, Kerburn's role is solely to complement the program and add fictional work experience. Dream Careers may give you a role at a shitty firm (but real nonetheless), but the work will not be in investment banking. You will be infinitely better even do wealth management at a BB than anything these two can offer you.

You need to do your god damn research.

xxx:
But then are these companies for? Plus if I can get training and placed into a BB, then that sounds like a valuable experience, even if overpriced.
You think they're going to place you into a BB? lol, do you think Goldman Sachs wants the leftover kids who couldn't find a job so they had to pay for it? Banks want the elite students - and if not the elite ones, at least the ones with the tenacity to haul ass for a job. If you want to buy your way into a BB, you're at least 10 million short - your parents better have at least enough to be important clients to the firm.
 

But you also forget that "leftover" doesn't mean bad. Investment Banks take so few interns that some of these "leftover" students are still capable of hauling ass, wouldn't you agree?

I've had a lot of trouble with landing an IBD gig but I know I can do the job because I've had work experience (not in IBD but worthwhile experience) and capable of working long hours to get the job done.

 

I'm sort of in your position except I think you're far better off haha. I have no relevant work experience, coursework and I go to a non-target school (SLU) and I'm a senior as well. Still based on my research and talking to people in the industry, I'd listen to what the guys before you said. I know a lot of the FT recruiting is done by this point but I am trying to leverage my small network to see if I can get lucky and at the same time, I have the WSO guide and I'm learning all the technical stuff from scratch.

It seems like you're passionate about what you want to do. As someone struggling to do the same thing you are, I would suggest that you don't give in to your desperation. I know the feeling because I have felt the same way too. I would just stay determined, work your network (continue expanding it if you can) and give it some time. It isn't unheard of for people to back out of IB analyst jobs at some middle market places if they find other offers so you never know what you might land later.

Stay strong bud

 
xxx:

But you also forget that "leftover" doesn't mean bad. Investment Banks take so few interns that some of these "leftover" students are still capable of hauling ass, wouldn't you agree?

I didn't forget anything. Leftover means undesirable - the real cream of the crop (even from non-target state schools much worse than Olin), have already been picked out, usually by multiple banks. I'd be very cautious bundling yourself with the few unlucky qualified kids who barely didn't make the cut. Rest assured, with your gpa, work experience (or lack thereof freshman year), and network, you would have 0 chance at even securing an on-campus interview at the target I attended. Banking isn't rocket science, anyone "can" do it. But to do a good job, you need to be hard working, reasonably smart, and sociable. Your gpa, work experience, and posts demonstrate very little of these traits.
xxx:
I know someone who did this program (albeit several years ago) and was placed in UBS in LA.
xxx:
He is also the national president of Phi Gamma Nu, a business fraternity.
Right, let's not attribute this guy's success to the fact that he's the fucking national president of a business fraternity? These things go a long way.
thoughtpolice:
Might want to be more cautious about the details of your friend; it took me about a minute to figure out who he is.
Funny, I wasn't able to find proof of any real placement of this "friend", but it took me 0 time to find the OP's own personal information from the first post alone due to his poor choice of username.
 

Actually, I'm still confused about Dream Careers because I know someone who did this program (albeit several years ago) and was placed in UBS in LA. He described it as very reliable and currently leads a successful career. He is also the national president of Phi Gamma Nu, a business fraternity. He said without Dream Careers, he never would've had that foundation. Though he could've been bribed to say that.

The way I see it: paying for an internship = bad and untrustworthy. But when there's a lot more qualified students that spots available in investment banking, sometimes, paying over $8000 is the only option. Regardless, I still don't like the idea of paying so much money for this program, but if Dream Careers is just exploiting people like me who are in desperate need of work experience, then I don't mind, so long as I can get into a company like UBS. If they can provide that, they can exploit me all they want.

 

Keep grinding, don't drop 8K into this. I'm an international student, go to a super duper non-target (heck not even top 100 regional), did my SA stint not in the US but back home, still got a full-time IBD offer at a BB here after working my ass off.

You still can go for FT recruiting now, since you are an US citizen, aim for MM banks and boutiques. Less structured recruiting process and I believe after borderline harassing people there, some doors will be pried open. If SA would suit your timeline better, leverage your network. Do you have some solid leads?

About this program, several years ago might be when the market was heading north and your friend got placed extremely well. In this market I don't think that would work out for you.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
 
TotteryGrain:

So you're saying that a 3.53 GPA and my work experiences show nothing of investment banking? Really?

TotteryGrain:
I tried going for internships in IBD last year but couldn't land a single interview.
Don't get in a habit of answering your own questions, and don't get in a habit of making straw men of what I say. Your own experiences should have shown you already that investment banks don't value what you have on your resume. Instead of blaming me for pointing out the obvious, or trying to pay your way out, try demonstrating the attributes that you claim you have by hustling for a job.
TotteryGrain:

I'm sorry but who do you think you are?

Funny, just had a brief conversation with one of the alumni of your school who happens to be in my group. Rest assured, your poor choice of username and words just locked an already closed door shut.
TotteryGrain:
I already have an on-campus interview.
 

Read through all the comments in this particular post but I'm curious about the "internships" with NYSF. Which companies does NYSF frequently match their students with? As a sophomore, should I accept an offer in a BB's MO, or consider NYSF because of the more relevant technical experience?

 

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