No Offers Yet - What to do?

I'm currently a junior at UNC-Chapel Hill majoring in Economics interested in IB. I networked heavy with specific companies and had multiple interviews, but eventually did not receive any offers. I'm at a stand still right now and am unsure of what to do. I have broadened my applications now to just about anything in finance and am hoping to get something. At what point in the year/recruitment cycle am I probably not going to get any offers? Likewise, if I don't find an offer at any IB (which I am very focused on for my career), should I start looking into applying for an MBA somewhere to better my opportunity to get into IB in the long run?

 

maybe this is more common at my school but a lot of ppl that don't land banking gigs in their junior year work in PE / AM / S&T / ER at a recognizable brand name, extend their major by a semester and essentially do a "second" junior year summer. Works wonders for a lot of these guys (end up at top BBs) since to an interviewer it may seem like you landed that gig as a sophomore. Would definitely consider that option if its a possibility at your school

 

ur GPA is less than 3.5, ur not in the business school, you have no finance experience. Dont know what you expected

 

You went to a non/semi-target in an irrelevant, soft major. Your choice is either Big 4 or specialized masters programs.

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 
duey_dun_did_it_again:
How is econ an irrelevant soft major?

BTW econ is much harder than finance in many schools.

No it isn't. You can say that all day to make yourself feel better but it's simply not true and no interviewer is going to hold the same viewpoint as you on that issue.

Not sure why people are throwing monkey shit at posters who are being straightforward. If you didn't attend a target school, major in finance (or at least something challenging), and also have a weak GPA (sub 3.5) then don't expect BB interviews. Investment banks are all about the minimization of risk and hiring kids that fit the description you gave is a big risk. If that hurts your feelings then too bad, not everyone is cut out for banking. Also, going to get your MBA is not a replacement for banking experience. Why would I hire a kid as an associate when he has zero experience doing the analysts' work which he's in charge of? The thought process in that is lost on me.

Just so I'm actually contributing to the thread, keep applying to different firms. Apply to everything from consulting firms all the way down to commercial banking. Anything to get your foot in the door. Not many people start off in investment banking as their first gig out of college and even fewer people have a career in it.

Edit: throwing MS at me won't get you an interview either kiddos.

 

I'm a student as well, so take this with a grain of salt.

I would sit down and plan out my 10 year goal. There is more than one way to get to your ultimate goal. I honestly don't know why people place all their eggs in one basket. If your ultimate goal is IB, than why not start at a boutique? At this point it's all about learning and truly getting the right skills. Go on CapIQ and download a list of boutiques in your area, send them a cold email. I did this to all the REPE shops near me and out of four dozen or so, 3 responded and one even offered to pay me $10/ hr. I was originally planning on working for free b/c I truly wanted to learn and I know nothing. Any shop that responds will respect your hustle. Keep at it.

If that doesn't work, that doesn't mean you should take any bone thrown at you. Be thoughtful of how any experiences align with your long term goal.

 

Well, I think the most obvious issue to address first is, why do you think you didn't get a return offer from MS/JPM? My gut feeling is that, whatever reason that is, is the primary issue with you landing FT roles. The good news is, while a character/worker flaw can still be fixed this late in the game for FT, prior experience cannot - and you seem to have a great resume.

My best advice would be, after fixing whatever flaw caused you not to get a return offer at your previous bank(s), is to start looking at small boutiques. I think you would really have a leg up at a small boutique which doesn't have any formal programs because you clearly have already had training and IBD experience, which would be a huge plus so you could hit the ground running at a small shop. Best of luck!

 
Best Response
  1. How the fuck have you had 2 BB internships and 1 boutique 2, how the fuck have you had 2 BB internships and 1 boutique from a non-target with a poor GPA 3. how the fuck do you not have any FT offers with 2 BB internships and 1 boutique
 

Very strange case.. Honestly the biggest red flags I would notice if I were reading your resume/application would be 1. Why is a kid with all this BB experience applying to my boutique / non-major city? 2. Why is a kid with all this BB and boutique experience even applying for FT positions? Did he do poorly and not receive a return offer?

Unfortunately, those are tough questions you're going to have to face when you interview, but if you can figure out a way to sell yourself to interviewers, you should do well. Good luck, don't let the non-target/GPA make you nervous.

 

Get the best job you can, whether banking related or not. The fact that you had previous banking experience will not guarantee you a job further down the line. And I know plenty of people (myself included) who didn't hold SA positions, but had good internships and still got FT offers.

 

I have been working with The Analyst Exchange over the past few months to develop an intensive Summer training program (you can read about it here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/training-basic-plan) that would place select students into a 3-week financial training program in New York and then guarantee them a 4-week internship at a hedge fund or private equity fund. The program will cost $4,995 (which is obviously much more reasonable than the Swiss Finance Academy, for example, especially since we would guarantee an internship).

We haven't marketed this program yet because we are still in the process of trying to find more qualified firms that will be a good experience for the students. We have a few already lined up and we will probably officially announce the program some time next week but if you want to apply you can send your resume for consideration to WallStreetOasis.com>[email protected]

Good luck, Patrick


Please help us get to 20,000 members by March 31st and win a free WSO shirt! http://www.printfection.com/wso-store //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/march-to-20000-members-t-shirt-contest Invite People Here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/invite

 
xqtrack:
University of Dreams!!!!

nope, lucky for you we don't place into PWM :-)


Please help us get to 20,000 members by March 31st and win a free WSO shirt! http://www.printfection.com/wso-store //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/march-to-20000-members-t-shirt-contest Invite People Here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/invite

 
IBnutz:
whatever you do don't pay 5,000 to these clowns to teach you something TTS can teach you in a weekend and "promise" you some kind of hedge fund internship.

IBNutz, you're right -- I'm going to risk all of the trust I've built up with my users over 3 years by promising an internship and then reneging with the hope that nobody will find out! brilliant! ....try again.

the program isn't for everyone but prospective students can do their own research by e-mailing WallStreetOasis.com>[email protected] with any questions they have and to see which firms are participating and how you are paired up (The Analyst Exchange will get that e-mail and answer promptly). like i said before, we only have a few participating firms right now but we hope we can get that up to 7-10 spots in a few weeks.


Invite People Here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/invite

 

I think he meant Big 4 (Accounting), Corporate Finance, etc.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

look dude, good luck to your program, my advice to folks is to not do it. i would never pay to go through a training class for material that you can learn for less money from TTS and to guarantee an internship... i'd rather people find internships in places where they are wanted because they need to source a full time class.

that's not going to happen for everyone out there because the BB's have scaled back in size. so if you're not getting any luck with the BB's then move down the spectrum or even into corporate finance or if that doesn't work then go work for the fed and get some experience dealing with these crazy markets. just do something marketable.

 

maybe it is worth a look, but plenty of people have been successful in this process this year and in previous years using the resources at their schools and their personal networks.

i'm curious, does this program target those who are top candidates or just anyone who will sign up? i would imagine a bunch of people from non-targets or who are not great candidates from target schools will sign up for this.

top candidates get into banking without programs like this.

 

Well, the markets, as we all know, have not been very kind to SA or FT applicants this year.

Maybe only truly the very top of the very top candidates made it in this year. Market conditions certainly warrant this. But maybe some certainly extremely well-qualified candidates just want to be able to have a better shot next year when the markets may hopefully be better.

Whatever the case, I wouldn't fault anyone for doing a program like this. And I'm pretty sure they'd be very selective about the students who participates in the program as they would be representing The Analyst Exchange in the actual financial workplace.

IBnutz:
maybe it is worth a look, but plenty of people have been successful in this process this year and in previous years using the resources at their schools and their personal networks.

i'm curious, does this program target those who are top candidates or just anyone who will sign up? i would imagine a bunch of people from non-targets or who are not great candidates from target schools will sign up for this.

top candidates get into banking without programs like this.

 

I can't say anything about this program until I see the list of partner funds they've got...but that being said,

I don't think it's so crazy for people to pay for an internship. People here are talking all the time about how it's been their dream for the past 4-5 years or whatever to go into finance--well, if that's true, then you should be willing to pay for it. After all, you (or really, your parents) are willing to shell out close to 200k for an "education" where you may or may not learn anything at all. It's an investment.

Obviously, you shouldn't do this if you can get a paying internship in finance elsewhere. But hey, if you can't, you gotta do what you gotta do...

and at the end of the day, your resume is only going to mention the internship with the fund. It's not going to say, "I paid 5k for this because I couldn't get a better offer." Nobody will be the wiser.

I really am curious to see what kinds of funds Patrick and Analyst Exchange are partnering with...

 
xqtrack:
After all, you (or really, your parents) are willing to shell out close to 200k for an "education" where you may or may not learn anything at all. It's an investment.
Careful there, I bet at least 50% of forum members had to get scholarships/loans. And not all of us go/went to private schools.

That being said, I'd definitely consider paying 4 - 5k if I had a chance. Unfortunately I don't have $4 - 5k, but I won't blame a whoever would do it.

 

Yeah, I emailed for more details, since obviously, the quality of the funds will be a big factor.

Here's Paul's response (Paul Pignataro, the CEO):

We're just finalizing the agreements allowing us to disclose the actual names of each participating firm. We will provide the names as they come available. Rest assured, our goal is to provide qualified students good, solid internships in VC, PE firms and Hedge Funds. We are screening our clients to make sure the experience you will have entails building actual models valuing companies for these firms. We will not accept internships dealing with paperwork or data-digging. Furthermore, we will not accept enrollment from anybody without our guarantee that you will receive an internship. That being said, the goals is for you to have a solid experience for your resume to leverage into a full time job. For the firm, the goal is to provide good and well-trained candidates.

Alongside with the Wall Street Oasis, we want to build a foundation of trust in addition to providing the best training and experience for you. As a result, I'm happy to personally answer any further questions you may have.

 

I think it's gonna be hard to tell you where it went "wrong" because I don't know you well enough to give you an honest opinion. However, just based on what you've described, I think you definitely stand out from your resume (i.e. top school, good internship, etc.) and the fact that you've been invited to many super days tells me there is absolutely nothing wrong with you (also, being a female sometime helps and good looking is certainly a plus for sure, especially in IB... not being a sexist here. Just an honest opinion and my personal experience of going through recruiting).

So now the nothing is wrong with you part is out of the way, I think the feedback definitely is the key to understand why you aren't getting any offers. You said it's all bs but I'm curious as to what kind of bs have they told you? (pm me if you don't feel comfortable sharing here). Because the only way to improve is by "correcting" your approaches and for me (and others) to be more helpful here, I need to have a better understanding of your situation.

I'm a first-year working in Lev Fin at a BB (not bragging here, just had been called out multiple times for having "DCM" as my job title here on WSO, so assumed that I didn't know anything about IB). I was in your shoes last year, so I understand what you're going through and why you're being discouraged, upset, and all that. It's normal and part of the process. Don't be discouraged; you'll be fine.

 

If your read enough through this site you will notice that many people will say that at this stage in the game most if not all of the BB have filled their classes but many MM and small boutiques are still hiring and will be hiring up to their start date. If you are aggressive enough with your networking you should be able to land a gig for the summer. If it comes down to it and all you can get is PWM, then honestly I would go ahead and take the PWM over taking a year off. Just know that will make it harder for you come FT recruiting season and you will just need to network that much harder, but seeing as you go to a target I think you should be fine.

 

Thank you for your advice guys. But can you answer the question I had on my networking approach: "My question is, should I honestly tell them my situation and that I really want an internship at their firms and ask if they can help? I am afraid that if I just act cool with the informational interview and everything it might be too late."

 

If you completed an internship at a no-name boutique, as long as you have something to talk about (deals, pitchbooks, modeling, etc.), you will land FT interviews if you network, which should be easy considering you are at a target. Good luck!

 

I wouldn't bother this late in the game and considering you are at top school, you will be OK for FT. Find a start-up/non-profit organization started by your alumni and work for them this summer. Paid or unpaid. Keep in mind a majority of these probably won't be paid.

You can spin that story quite easily when it comes to FT recruiting. I was under the impression that recruiting was non-existent this past summer at my bank and others, yet we handed out plenty of FT offers.

 

In my midterm review, I was told that I lacked enthusiasm compared to other interns and that I needed to keep up to speed with my work (the comment was given to all interns). There were also two people in my group who I did not work well with and I am pretty sure they had a say on whether I deserved a return.

 

which banks have you applied to where you haven't advanced? i can give you the picture on each one's hiring situation. generally speaking, most BB IB groups in NY have already filled their classes with summer interns.

you are probably better off focusing your time on MM and botiques

 

LOL what wow that's really strange i'd offer to speculate why, but it honestly doesn't matter at this point

i agree with the poster above, you should focus on maybe top boutiques for example, i think oppenheimer is still doing interviews

I'm not concerned with the very poor -Mitt Romney
 
Whiskey5:

"I feel that based on my stats that I should have a job by now"

that's why

This. Your stats are good enough to get you the interviews, as evidenced. But your interviewing sucks (if you had consistently made it to final rounds and got dinged, i'd be more inclined to say that you just didn't jive well with your interviewers/some minutae got you dinged) evidenced by the fact that you never make it past first rounds.
 

Maybe there's just something about your face...

//www.youtube.com/embed/M3lGKMXYOG8

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Taking the june level 1 CFA, final registration deadline is soon though. You would have to get work experience before going to b school, wait until you get a job to start studying.

I would also be interested to hear what other jobs might be decent to start out in. Your prob too late for the big corporate finance programs but treasury analyst gigs pop up randomly. I would advise against taking a BO gig. Some guy have done it and moved up but its really hard.

Blowing those interviews must've been heart breaking.

 

I noticed that their final registration deadline is approaching, however, it wont be possible for me to pay the final registration fee ($1700) on top of the regular registration fee ($450). The problem is that I don't come from a wealthy household, and as a result I will need to find a job upon graduation whether it is a finance related job or not in order to pay bills.

 

Well I have a "different" array of experiences since I didn't go the traditional internship route. I started out as an Outside Sales Manager (door-to-door) selling of foam insulation to homeowners for the majority of my freshman year. While knocking on doors I wound up on the doorstep of the CEO of the company I would work for next, and he gave me an offer to come work for him for an increase in pay because he liked my sales pitch. Then, for the first two summers of my college years, I was a Inside Sales Specialist which entailed selling lead services to contracting businesses. In my final summer before senior year, I worked directly for a high net worth individual as his trading assistant. As his trading assistant I was responsible for researching selected equities, and helped monitor positions for an account worth over $700,000.

 

Well I have a "different" array of experiences since I didn't go the traditional internship route. I started out as an Outside Sales Manager (door-to-door) selling of foam insulation to homeowners for the majority of my freshman year. While knocking on doors I wound up on the doorstep of the CEO of the company I would work for next, and he gave me an offer to come work for him for an increase in pay because he liked my sales pitch. Then, for the first two summers of my college years, I was a Inside Sales Specialist which entailed selling lead services to contracting businesses. In my final summer before senior year, I worked directly for a high net worth individual as his trading assistant. As his trading assistant I was responsible for researching selected equities, and helped monitor positions for an account worth over $700,000.

 

Broaden your net. Taking a "lower" offer isn't a bad thing, unless you're trying to impress WSO. Live for yourself. If it takes an extra 2 years going a different route to get where you want to be, do it. You have nothing but time to make a name for yourself. Constantly network, but get a job and experience with an end goal.

Spring recruiting should be target #1 right now, but don't hesitate in taking something you think is lesser than you. There's a reason Accenture is still in business. They have to be doing something right. I'm not vouching for them or saying it's the best, but you have to start somewhere.

 

veljones and everyone else: By spring recruitment do you mean for SA? Or for full-time again? And if it's the latter, does this include the big firms?

In a similar position as well - I made finals for 2 MBBs and a couple of others but no offers :( I'm not clutch at all or I'm just doing something wrong that I don't know about.

 

There were so many threads about this last year. In short: yes, fall recruiting is done. No, FT recruiting isn't necessarily over. I got my offer a month before I graduated. Keep networking, cast your net a little wider, and keep applying. The game's not over yet.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

I second what everyone else above is saying: cast your net wider, keep networking your butt off, etc. In addition, it sounds like you have some issues with conveying confidence and communicating well in interviews. So, while you may be qualified from the analytical skills perspective, your client-facing/interaction skills are not up to snuff. As such, I'd work on effective communication and interviewing.

Victor Cheng's recent video with a professional voice coach is good for communication tips. Basically, connect your words (that way you can't have filler words as well), use a range of pitches, always end a sentence with a maintenance or rise in pitch, and speak more loudly (fill the room). I could be completely off-base, but I figured someone with your background is more likely struggling with the confidence/communication portion of the interview as opposed to the analytical.

 

Does anyone have a link to a structured list of Boutiques. I'm in same boat as OP but I do know some boutiques hire year-round.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.
 
Ivan:
There are a few options. Portfolio Investment departments of commercial banks, management consulting also.

Don't really see the management consulting route as a viable one at this point.

Management consulting recruiting occurs at the same time as does IB recruiting, and at top firms (i.e., MBB), the recruiting process is generally even more selective than for BB IBs.

 
has anyone recruited in the fall after previous spring graduation?

I had to due to a combination of a late realization that I wanted to go into banking and some other circumstances. I got an offer from a BB, so it's doable though I have no clue how common it is.

The others I met during interviews and on superdays who weren't seniors were all working somewhere else already, I wasn't. Everywhere I applied I was asked why I was applying so late, etc., but I had a decent answer for that. It never came up after that.

If you are really set on banking, an obvious option is to step up your efforts this recruiting season, and network heavily as well, particularly since you're lucky enough to be from a target and will have alumni in the industry. Do try to get a decent job in the meantime though, it can only help.

If you have friends who made it in, you may want to sit down with them and ask them to be brutally honest with you. Although recruiting blew chunks last fall, maybe there is something in particular you could do better. I know I could've used something like that.

Good luck.

 

Big 4 valuations are a good spot. Also look into finding a F500 with a Corporate Development/Acquisitions group. And don't just expect a boutique has finished recruiting. Call them all up. If you are from a target with a good GPA, you'll find a good job. Do well there and you could get to a top MBA and go wherever from there.

 

going back to school for another semester (or 2) is probably only a good idea if u get an internship for the summer.
Hmm.. what about applying for summer internships at boutiques - when they ask why internship if ur graduating in the spring...oh i want to do americcorps after i graduate for X months. dont know if that would work/how it would be viewed, just a thought.

 

How about you quit being a lazy ass and access your school's alumni network? I'm from a non-target and was able to find around 5-6 contacts through it alone. If you are at a target, I'm sure there have to be at least a few people who are at smaller shops that are not finished recruiting (or better yet do not have a formal recruiting process).

 

Like other people are saying, extend your graduation. It has worked for a number of people in cases where they were looking to pick up an SA position but failed. It has also worked where the extension was to take a shot of fall FT recruiting. I know a number of success stories from both options. I guess it just depends how badly you want it.

 

1) No, boutiques are not done recruiting. While I normally don't recommend working at them if you have bulge bracket offers, many middle-market and regional boutiques are still recruiting and short on people... or will soon find they are short on people.

I personally know of people who got offers at these places VERY late in the process - e.g. even later than now. Just keep in mind the market was much better back then so might be harder now.

Going to a boutique is better than going to any related field, because at least it's still banking. And you can lateral to somewhere bigger after a year.

2) Have you used your alumni network at all? It sounds like you haven't exploited it for all it's worth yet and it can be really powerful if you leverage it... I'd contact them and get started with that ASAP and you may catch a lucky break.

3) In the worst case and if neither of the above works, I would stay in school for another semester or so and recruit in the fall again. It's WAY easier to just get into banking now vs. trying to break in from another field... and it's a lot harder to recruit when you're working full-time as well.

 

Do what my friend is doing.... work for two or three years, with the first being outside your area of interest, get your MBA/JD/Whatever you feel is right for you/"Insert Fancy Witty Post-Grad School title here" and then look at an associate posisiton. After the first year, move into a different arena closer to what you want to do in the end before you do the Grad School bit. Right now, he's doing Event Service Management for a major hotel and has just finalized his lateral move into their internal RE Group (Doing what is beyond me, I haven't seen him about 2 months due to work in my own right) for the end of April. I don't know the terms yet, but will report more when I get it.

 

I thought this thread was pretty helpful and encouraging, I'm in the same boat as peanutbutterjelly. Pretty much as a grad. senior did not get any BB offers. Since I am a nontrad background (engineering), I'm not tanked about it - I've got offers from various engineering firms (sadly no McKBcgB either though).

I'm spending the next fall learning more financials/accounting and taking some sweet strategy classes in the business school at my university.

Some friends working right now say it's not a bad decision. Obviously it would have been more advantageous had I received an offer, but as everybody knows, the markets are in the shits right now... Two friends who chose IBD at Bear Stearns in SF are shitting bricks... So I don't feel so bad after all :P

 

I am in a similar situation, a senior still looking for a job. For various reasons I didn't recruit during the fall, so I'm doing this all a little later than everyone else. And staying in school for another semester just isn't an option for me.
A lot of boutiques are definitely still looking - I've been interviewing pretty actively. Be aggressive, but not annoying. I've been calling and straight up asking about openings. I've had really good results (7 interviews in 2 weeks), and I haven't finished calling or even started with alumni yet.

But from your post, it sounds like getting the initial interview may not be the problem. What do you mean by "failed them?" Perhaps it would be useful to brush up on interview techniques, reworking some of your answers to questions, etc.

 

Go to the website, find the main number, pick up the phone and dial. You can ask to speak to whoever is in charge of recruiting or just explain your situation and ask to talk to whoever the best person would be.

Your hit rate probably won't be very high, but you should definitely keep trying.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

if you applied online it will not be looked at. about 30 of my app statuses online are "pending" -- every place i got an interview from that wasnt on campus i had spoken to someone at the firm.

congrats on your interviews, but know that even if you get an interview theres about 1/20 chance of getting the offer so getting dinged from 3 is very normal.

 
spacejam22:
if you applied online it will not be looked at. about 30 of my app statuses online are "pending" -- every place i got an interview from that wasnt on campus i had spoken to someone at the firm.

congrats on your interviews, but know that even if you get an interview theres about 1/20 chance of getting the offer so getting dinged from 3 is very normal.

I didn't get first rounds from any of the on campus recruiting banks either... although my resume was worse back then (formatting+what I included) that I have now though

What should I do now? I feel like I have a good enough resume that given a look, would get a first round from boutiques... If online submission is useless how can I get people to look at it?

From contacting alumni only about 1/10-15 respond and there aren't that many IB alumni listed on my school's website.

 

Keep at it. Try reaching out to some of your school's alumni. As the above poster said, if you apply online your resume is very unlikely to even ever get looked at.

The Macro View http://themacroview.wordpress.com
 

I know exactly how you feel. Try looking up your school's board of trustees and reaching out to those who work on the Street. Even if you don't get to talk to them, HR will likely refer you to someone else who graduated from your school. Worked for me.

 

seeing as how I'm in pretty much your exact situation here is my response

1-Waiting an extra year won't help you. Even if you put off graduation by 1 year there is no guarantee you'll even get an internship because competition for those is just as hard. And even though you have a 3.6 GPA, it seems like the only to get an internship coming from a non-target is a 3.9x gpa with prior non-IB internships at banks.

2-As far as the temporary job, it won't help you, banks spend 99% of their efforts on recent college grads, so its pretty much impossible to lateral in.

3-Your best bet is to go get a regular job, then after a few years go get your MBA. And then break into banking at associate level, if thats what you want to do.

4-I see you have a 780 gmat score, thats very good, so your main task between now and application time is to get good experience, and to gain access to good reccomendations.

5-The main thing is to not get stressed out about not getting in at the analyst level. Think of it as skipping 2 years of bullshit and being someone's personal slave for minimum pay.

Look on the bright side, you'll have 2 years of your youth while the rest of the guys will be stuck in the office for 100 hours per week, masturbating in the office bathroom to a sears catalog because they have no time to meet women.

And yes now we'll have a dozen people chiming in and saying that you gotta do IB or you are a loser, but thats just them justifying their long hours.

P.S. I've decided not to respond to personal attacks anymore, so don't bother.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

 
aspiringmonkey:
Look on the bright side, you'll have 2 years of your youth while the rest of the guys will be stuck in the office for 100 hours per week, masturbating in the office bathroom to a sears catalog because they have no time to meet women.

Way to justify being too unintelligent to get an analyst position.

 

Dude, just try to call boutiques and find places that are hiring on a 'as needed basis'. It might be hard to get into the analyst level but AsMonkey is right about associate.

To be honest, I think associates and analysts vary in career planning heavily. You become an analyst to go to the buyside or transition into industry and gain 5 years of work ex in 2 years. You go in as an associate to be a lifer banker. It's a very different thing - analysts want to do PE/HF/VC etc or transition into corp dev or other jobs of that type.

Associates want to be bankers. Having been in banking and not particularly enjoying the hours. You might want to think twice about putting in 100 hrs a week when you are 28 and potentially have a family / serious gf. Don't listen to Asmonkey about avoiding 2 years of being a 'slave' and be sure about waht you want to get out of being in banking.

 

Westcoasting, I agree with you about the difference between analyst and associate. I don't plan on being a banker for life. I'd rather do Asset Management or sth else on the buy-side. However, my impression is you learn much more knowledge and company valuation skills at the beginning on the sell-side. If there is another option that would give me all those transferable skills, i'd gladly take it.

 

its not about being intelligent, its about not having the right profile to get the interviews.


Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

 

Well I don't know if it was market conditions, to be honest. Bear and UBS, two of the banks hit hardest by the credit crunch, have told me their analyst classes will be just as big this year as last year (~45 for Bear, over 80 for UBS). So you might want to consider your approach to interviews. If you got any business cards, make sure you email any analysts/associates to talk about ways to improve your interviews in the future. Not all will be helpful but I've found a few guys are candid and will tell you the truth for the most part about how you fared.

Most BBs have wrapped up recruiting, though a few just outside BB like BofA and Wachovia are still in the process. Contact them ASAP and at the same time come up with 20 or so MM banks you want to get in touch with and call them within the next few days. Many of them start later to pick up kids like you- strong candidates who for whatever reason just missed out on a BB offer after final rounds. All hope is not lost; keep plugging away and stay active.

 

Just a prelim list I might take a look at: HLHZ Jefferies Piper Jaffray Stifel Nicolas FBR Thomas Wiesel Harris Williams William Blair Cowen & Co BBH Raymond James Robert Baird

Plus plenty of other regional places to look at depending on where you go to school or where you want to work (esp. if you are near NYC, SF, LA, Chicago, or Boston)

 

Yeah, to clarify I'm not smug enough to complain that it was all market conditions everywhere I interviewed, only at 1 BB in particular. I've gotten feedback from some people but nothing substantial. A typical response is "ask HR" or something similarly vague. People act as if I'll be hurt or I'll sue them when I just want to improve. Anyway, thanks man, I'll try to contact some banks directly.

Peace

 

Market conditions definitely played a role in this year's recruiting. I spoke w/ an alum from my school at JPM (I'm at a non-target) who was recruiting on-campus at my school last year. My school is considered an "alumni school", but not a "target school"; therefore, the "school recruiting team" usually has 3 superday interview slots at their disposal (but the team is totally in charge of who gets those slots). This year, however, JPM took away interview slots from all non-target schools. It is hiring initially strictly from its summer class, and, if there are any slots left over, it will only be looking at target-school applicants.

 

A lot of the bigger MM's have filled up too, or are nearing completion. I hate to say it - but it's probably too late to get into the recruiting process with the top MM's. Their time-frames have similar overlap with the BB's, and I know many candidates who have interviewed with both MM and BB's simultaneously because of this year's tough market conditions. It makes sense. They would rather take kids who have a genuine interest in working in a more entreprenurial MM environment over some kid who is "settling" because he could not get a BB offer anywhere.

I would start contacting the more regional MM's. There are some good posts here listing regional boutqiues. Send your resume ASAP. I know that some of them like to finish their hiring by November / December.

 

ur marketability increases with work experience as does your knowledge. I suggest you finish at least one year or have 4-5 closed/announced deals on your resume.

other than the wall street prep, consider buying a few easy to read texts (scoopbooks, mergers and acquisitions: A-Z, maybe WSO and M&I guides).

I'm sure you have friends or co-workers who have worked in M&A, see if you can get them to walk you through building a model, look over a strategic alternatives pitch, etc.

One thing I did to help my friends at boutiques was send them my notes/books from the analyst training sessions to help them prep.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

Given your position, it sounds like you are confident in your abilities to secure a spot at a no name shop doing IBD, so that is probably your best show. Start networking now for FT positions for next year.

 
Andrew-:

Not to be an asshole, but please use the search function on this forum. There are literally at least 6 current threads on this exact topic (I have responded to probably about 3), and a lot more threads that date back to previous years.

Given your position, it sounds like you are confident in your abilities to secure a spot at a no name shop doing IBD, so that is probably your best show. Start networking now for FT positions for next year.

I guess prefacing the statement with "not to be an asshole," still can't prevent anyone from throwing monkey shit at you.

 

At this point, just try and do whatever you can to try and get a IBD / PE internship at a boutique, seeing as much of the formal processes are wrapping up about now. For FT, just crush your internship and network hard over the summer, hopefully you can get some interview then and convert on those.

 

Work at a boutique IB/place where you can get relevant financial knowledge and continue networking. Retain your contacts from the interviews and keep them updated on your summer plans. Keep up the interest!

For the lead! Sipag, tiyaga, at lakas ng loob!
 

I say persevere and take option 2 and LdnMezz's advice. Try to go for something related and then lateral after a year and if that fails stay within an industry that will give you relevant experience for you to come into IBD as an associate after an MBA. I wouldn't suggest going for option 1 because without any work experience, I doubt you would land a job at a top firm as an associate with a master's. If you meant an MBA, then perhaps if you do some volunteering or extra curricular work that can be seen as a relevant to offset the lack of experience, perhaps you could land a job. however even then it would be far fetched, plus you'd have to get into a top MBA program without experience, which is quasi impossible.

My experience has been to go work in an industry that I really enjoyed, then after two year i managed to lateral into a BB, granted not in IBD but I find it that it will still provide good grounding and experience to get into a top 5 world MBA program and then come into IBD as an associate.

It surely makes things a bit more difficult and there probably will be a lot more fo rme to prove to get to where Iw ant but there's no need for it to be the clear cut path for you to get there. There are alternatives. You make your own path.

 

please - I cannot stress this enough, do not take option 1 if you meant going to business school immediately. every banking associate I know has 3 or more years working experience before MBA. the few b school peers I know who went to do their MBA without any work experience could not get a decent job. not even one offer. They have wasted their money totally.

 

I agree with Newbie...you'd have to make sure it's a master's that will actually add value to your CV and speaking from experience, I'd say go for an LSE master's. they probably put more people in front office from most master's available in the UK (i know there's oxbridge but i'm nto sure how their master's place, I know their undergrads are second to none). The only thing is after the master's you can't expect to come in at associate level, you d still have to do the whole analyst stint. Just making sure you are aware of that.

 

IBD isn't the end all, be all. Hold your head up, and continue looking for other relevant positions. Look into consulting or corp. finance at a large company. I know BAH is still interviewing. Also, F500 companies seem to have longer recruiting timelines than banks.

If you have any interest in S&T, check out Cargill, Louis Dreyfus or any major energy or oil services company.

Finally, scan the sticky forum on regional banks and contact as many boutiques as possible.

 

Princeton's Msc in Finance is also top-notch if you don't want to cross the pond.

Look into working CorpFin at a F500, although a lot of them at this point have begun filling up most positions. If you can get into that, because you can pick up some quality experience that will look good for an MBA and even maybe meet people with IBD contacts. I worked at a F500 for an internship and their CorpFin/CorpDev groups were really helpful in reaching into their contacts to get me to meet the right people. And at the very least you have a nice job at a secure company and a chance to go get your MBA 3-4 years down the line at a good school.

Not everybody gets into banking fresh out of college; if you love it and want to do it, you can eventually crack into it no matter where you start out.

 

Your other option is to do something like Teach for America or the Peace Corps for two years and then re-apply after that. That way it looks like you wanted to get into finance all along, but first wanted to spend some time giving back.

Pretty sure bank's like these service kinds of things, as I know most will even defer offers for two years if you're going to Teach for America or the Peace Corps.

- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

i wouldn't recommend taking ops at a bb if you can't get an offer in ibd. it's very easy to get pigeonholed as an ops guy. imo, you would be better off working at a boutique and getting relevant experience. think about it - when banks look to hire a year or so down the road, they would rather recruit someone who has had transferable experience as opposed to someone who has learned absolutely nothing in the back office. just my 2 cents

 

IMO, it's still better than any of the 3 options you listed above. I'd take the S&T position.

 

Like I already said, it is not something I want to do. What I want is IBD, so I will consider waiting a year to apply again (I think I can do that). Bad move? Maybe. But I want to explore alternative routes than working in S&T

That being said, I will consider just taking S&T, and trying to move over in the future although I know it's pretty hard

 

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