Career progression (into IB) without internships/previous work experience.
I'm doing my best right now to get an internship, but would also like to consider my options if I don't get one.
I'll have an MSc in Finance from a pretty good university in Europe (not LSE, etc. but investment banks still recruit from there) with (hopefully) good grades.
What can someone in that situation do? I have unrelated work experience, but unfortunately nothing related to finance/banking.
I guess even boutique investment banks won't hire an analyst with no internships? What kind of work can I find in that situation and what are my prospects for getting into IB?
Thanks
NETWORK!!! good luck
In the same boat as you.. Most of the people I have been networking with are from boutiques or MM banks. They have said that they usually dont hire analysts without experience because they dont have the training resources that BB banks have. Few said they tried sending them elsewhere for training, but it hasnt worked out too well.
Hey
@helphere: Yeah I am trying to network as much as possible.
@MC 002: While that is disappointing, its not surprising. :(
So what kind of career progression is possible guys? I'm sure that you aren't forever banned from banking if you didn't do an internship or two during uni.
which MSc finance? England or continental europe? Also, I was under the impression that a good MSc finance program, especially in Europe, was good for getting a job in IB
MSc Finance & Investments at the Rotterdam School of Management It isn't LSE but it does have its share of placements.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought that having experience is a prerequisite for IB, no matter the degree?
having an internship helps, but it isn't a prerequisite.
what kind of job opportunities has the program given you so far? in which direction do you see most of your classmates going?
certainly the majority of your classmates don't have prior IB experience or they'd be working there rather than studying at Erasmus.
I haven't started the program yet (September). I recently finished my BSc and am currently looking for an internship.
I hear that relatively few people from RSM want to go into banking, and I don't know how good their career service is.
What should I do if I don't get an internship before September? Hope that an IB hires me without relevant experience?
either that or build a time machine.
i'm sure you will get a job in finance after the program. i mean, by then, you'll be more expert on the subject than anyone around short of PhDs.
to be honest, given the quant nature of a masters in finance, you will be more qualified to work as a trader/derivatives structurer or asset manager. those jobs sound just as if not more appealing than IB.
Thanks for your encouragement Affirmative_Action_Walrus.
Now is the time that I regret not taking my future career seriously in the first few years of university :(
Problems with an internship after school as far as bank policy goes. There is a policy that only allows you to do an internship if you are enrolled in school. If you have graduated already they would have to hire you as full compensation and the bank would rather take full compensation talent with experience. So what you would need to do is the following (start from the bottom up) which would involve getting in from the back door.
You should have planned IBD before graduating, meaning that you should have looked for an internship 2 years ago.
Like I said before NETWORK and sell yourself as a good IBD prospect....... we are only talking of the most prestigious job in the world here.
Figure it out, if you do that means you are a good fit, if not get a job in something else and fit in with the rest of the world. !! want it bad enough and talk to any stranger in an expensive suit!!!
You can still get a summer internship in a BB without prior experience in internships. A friend of mine made it to MS without having worked in the industry before
Reading or some foreign uni exchange may help you
not sure what helphere is talking about.
if you will be going to school next fall and are already "enrolled" in the program then a bank will be able to hire you for the summer. just be able to provide proof of enrollment if they ask.
at least that's how it works in the USA.
Well I'm still officially enrolled at my current uni (I have to be until I get my diploma at the end of next month). I'm currently sending out emails to as many boutique banks as I can find asking about unpaid internships.
A kind of unrelated question: is it a good idea to buy the M&I financial modelling course and do it now? Its relatively cheap and when I do either get an internship or FT position it will be a big plus.
I think it's a good idea.
silverback pm me your resume
@jddl: Done, it looks like a great course.
@heldhere: Done.
Breaking into IB - No Internship - (Originally Posted: 12/23/2015)
Summary / Story: - Graduated in 2015 with Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from a college in NYC (not a stop school). - Currently working in Regulatory Reporting Consulting company in NYC. - Don't have any Finance background but started studying to CFA also taking the time to understand how balance sheets and all of that stuff works. ( I know CFA is not needed but I think I can learn something from it) - I have 2 years of work experience (in college as associate PM in eSports (video game industry) and now addition to regulator reporting stuff that I am doing currently (6 months) as that was during college. It is being a associate project manager / in a eSports (Video Games industry that don't know). - Regulatory Reporting is not what I want to do but it was a way into Finance which I found out I want to do basically towards the end of Junior year but didn't know what exact field I wanted to peruse. - I can communicate with 2 languages fluently on native speaker level (should be a plus).
I know it will be tough to get into IB but its something that I set my goal to and I know I want to do it. Going for MBA is an option but I don't want to execute that unless it will be the only and last chance to get MBA right now as currently I don't have the money to pay for the MBA and I certainly dont want to have crazy amount of debt.
Would appreciate any thoughts / ideas as what should I do. I know networking / trying to get informal interviews via LinkedIn can be an option but not sure if that is the best option.
PS. Is it possible to get in by Summer 2016 or has that ship sailed long time ago?
Cheers! and Merry Christmas
No chance without MBA, sorry
Target boutiques to try to get your foot in the door. They tend to have less formal recruiting procedures so you might be able to get an in that way. Virtually no chance at BBs and EBs as they have a very structured recruiting process and most of their hires are sourced from their junior year intern class. Helps if you have a 3.5+ GPA but you will have to craft a coherent and compelling story as to why you want IB. From the info you've given out, it's not clear and it seems like you heard about IB yesterday and are applying just cause.
The easier option is to do a couple more years then get an MBA and go in as an associate.
Why IB?
So I got interested in the financial world mid of my college career. I started slowly follow the markets and it was something that was very entreating to me as to why markets act in the ways they do. I knew by that point that I really don't want to do monkey coding for the rest of my life as I didn't find it very interesting as I thought it would be prior to college. Also around that time I got a part time job as a Associate PM, there I had decent amount of client exposure which I really enjoyed doing. However, Finance was still something that was at the back of my mind. Towards the end of my Senior year I found out about IB. At that point I knew I wanted to become one but being a CS major I wasn't exactly sure how to get into it and I needed a job... Anyways, I believe IB will give the opportunity to learn more about all aspects of business, finance and economics and being a client facing role where I will be able to advice companies is basically best of both worlds for me.
Obviously the exit opportunities are amazing coming out of the banking and the money is there, but for me personally learning more about the market / given sector and dive deeper into the companies, and understand their core business on a daily basis would be fascinating and something that would not get bored by.
Hours and work don't scare me and I know that I will be able to excel as Investor Banker.
why not try to move up a few rungs in consulting. get mba and then go ibd
Like I said above it is an option for me, however I believe that working on the job is much more important, and getting into IB earlier would be more beneficial. At worst case scenario I am planning on working / moving up / saving up some $$ and getting an MBA in Finance of 2017.
Enrolled in MSF, Want to break into Investment Banking, Quadrilingual, Liberal Arts Background, no Internship Exp. (Originally Posted: 06/24/2015)
Hey all,
I have what's probably a pretty unique situation and backstory. I'm enrolled in the UT MSF program that begins July 1st. I'm 24, with a Bachelors in Spanish and History and a Masters in Middle Eastern Studies, but no work experience. Grades were strong. I speak English and Spanish fluently and French and Arabic decently enough. I've best investing personally since I was a kid (asked my parents for a 1 grand lump sum allowance instead of 5 dollars a week) , eventually have grown that fund from humble beginnings to a respectable six figures (left over college savings from in-state didn't hurt).
I initially wanted Finance to remain a hobby, but while living in the poorest part of Morocco, I decided that my humanitarian vision was to break into I-banking and eventually form a hedge fund, spending a good portion of my personal profits on charity work to alleviate poverty and hunger and promote the education system in the Middle East.
I don't have any internship or work experience with investment banking or finance, all my finance experience is pretty much anecdotal so far. I tend to interview and network pretty well, and I plan to network like a crazy person, attended every possible event etc.
My question is: If my heart is set on I-banking and I won't take no for an answer, what's my best strategy from here on out? Try to land an internship this fall with a local boutique bank in Austin?
I know my situation is pretty weird, but I'm set on breaking into I-banking no matter what, and will do what's necessary. Any and all advice is more than welcome.
To be honest, if your goal is to earn money so you can support charities in your country there are easier ways to earn money than going into finance. You might be better off starting your own company, growing it, and selling it.
I'm American. The charity is only a part of my ambitions. I'm in it because of my passion for finance primarily.
I think at this point you want to get an internship or a job at the best firm possible. If a boutique bank hires you, then great, that's a start. Just to clarify--what role are you looking to get into? Do you want to go into IB, PE, trading, risk, quant, etc.? I may be able to advise on the trader and quant roles. I don't know anything about IB or PE. Do a search on WSO. I think people in your same situation have asked this question many times before.
I'd second what was said above. Get some kind of finance internship. Join finance groups at UT. Start networking and interview prep now. Get your story down. I'd probably beef up your why finance and why banking story.
Thanks guys -- appreciate the replies. There's a practicum as part of the MSF program, so that's sort of an interwoven internship. Final question though, how concern should I be over advanced technical questions in interviews, seeing as I have no prior official academic experience in Finance. I've already taught myself the basics of accounting and valuation, but an advanced question would be beyond me atm.
Cheers!
I-Banking With No Experience (Originally Posted: 06/15/2015)
I am a rising senior at a target university. I am actively considering recruiting for full time investment banking positions, however I have little job experience in Finance outside of school, clubs, and other extracurricular activities.
Is it remotely possible to secure a full time i-banking offer without working as a summer analyst or in a finance related role before your senior year?
EDIT: Can you apply to summer analyst internships for your summer after graduation?
Likely not.
Agreed - it's highly unlikely you will be seriously considered for IB analyst positions. Consulting is probably more realistic if you have a high GPA. If your mind is dead-set on finance, applying for MSF programs will give you the chance to go for SA programs after you graduate, and another shot at FT IB analyst recruiting.
You should start networking now also.
You cannot apply to SA positions for the summer of your senior year unless you are planning to graduate a semester later (a possibility you could consider). Also, I strong disagree with @7xEBITDA on his previous comment that you will unlikely to be seriously considered. even BBs won't care about past internships that much because they will teach you everything over again. Your story and branding is what's much more important.
Interesting - your experience has definitely been different than mine. Recent grad from East Coast target - in FT recruiting, I didn't know of anybody who didn't have some sort of previous IBD/Consulting/F500 experience who got an interview for a full-time analyst position.
In fact, most people without finance experience didn't even get SA interviews for junior summer (unless they networked). The vast majority of people I interviewed with for junior SA (probably around 80%) held finance internships their sophomore summer (BO at BB / Investment team at HF / Boutique IBD / corporate finance). For IBD that number was pretty much 100% (at least at my school).
It's unlikely but I've seen it done. FT without experience, and at a very top bank.
Where was this?
Was prior work experience somewhat related?
Did it take flawless GPA to seal the deal?
Thanks in advance!
Agree with King dididi, graduating a semester later could be a very sensible option. I think you should concentrate a great deal of your efforts in networking. Also try to focus on boutiques.
Experience is the major part of our career because experience gives the more opportunities in any fields for making a better career. if you have some experience in some fields so you can get more achievement in your life.
Thanks to those who've already commented and fortunately I've already started networking.
To clarify, I am currently working as a Business Analyst in the Sales Division of my company. While not directly in Finance, my job requires me to create a variety of models analyzing/predicting the performance of the sales force. To me at least, there is somewhat of an overlap between this and IB. While it most certainly does not supplement direct experience in a finance related role, I believe it does at least provide a platform from which to launch a finance career in addition to my coursework.
Any thoughts on this would also be appreciated.
Breaking into Banking with no work experience after MS Finance? (Originally Posted: 10/06/2013)
I'm a recent Ivy grad majoring in history (3.9 gpa/750 SAT math) with no relevant experience and minimum quant classes, thinking about pursuing a MSFinance in LSE aspiring to break into banking.
Will I even be able to get a job after getting my degree? I don't see how I will be distinguished from my peers who have had ugrad business degrees and related internships.
I have a family member with history degree from top ivy school working in IB. He did internships throughout college though. I would say talk to alumni and get an unpaid internship first so you have something to put on your app to LSE. After LSE you can easily get in through OCR.
History is a great major. IB's take anyone these days who are willing to work. Make sure you can do the hours and the repetitive mindless work.
absolutely. Ivy name+MSF and you should be fine.
Applying internship junior year with no work experience (Originally Posted: 08/12/2013)
I'm from a target school with no work experience. Would this immediately put me in the reject pile for S&T or M&A BB summer internships? Or what about something like M&A at Lazard, Moelis, etc?
It just seems that everyone I know has summer internships or work experience of some sort and I want to know if I should even bother applying.
Not sure if troll, but:
Smaller places (relative to BBs) like Lazard, Moelis, etc. expect you to have even more experience coming in, and are as hard (if not harder) to get an internship with due to smaller number of spots.
Do you have no work experience whatsoever, or just no finance work experience?
No work experience whatsoever. Will I be in the instant reject pile?
I was wondering if there is a chance that I could get an interview and impress them there or should I better hedge my bets by applying to a few middle/back office positions?
You better try getting something during the academic year. Other than that you might have to look for a mid/back office type of roles.
I'm in a similar situation (target, no finance work experience but a lot of research/other work experience) and would also love to know what people think. Are things different in ER and consulting? I'm interested in those two fields in addition to S&T (and possibly M&A).
One of my friends is from a target without any work experience and no finance bg. It really depends on how you network and how well you present yourself.
Your only chance is to network (at best). Think about it this way - they already have a huge pool of applicants similar to yourself w/ plenty of work experience and just as hungry, so why take a chance on someone with no value-add?
I agree with the above comments. I think networking is key, and figuring out "why you" is the most important.
FT Ibanking no experience (Originally Posted: 03/28/2011)
I was just told by a friend that one of his boys got a FT offer at a MM IBD bank in NY with no previous experience in ibanking (ie no internships) and a 3.5 GPA from a non target think GWU, UMD, AU. How realistic is this ? the minute I heard it I cried foul.
Not unrealistic, but improbable. He must have networked his nuts off / had some intense leadership positions such as captain of a team / had relevant extracurricular activities / luck.
Cmon, not that improbable. All he needed was a decent resume, know a VP/MD to get an interview, and interview well. I had no IB experience and managed to land a job at a PE shop out of college by having a good GPA, EC's, a sport, another internship (not banking), knowing people and interviewing well.
It's not what you know, its who you know.
Yeah, really not such a stretch - all you gotta do is land an interview, which can be done via networking, and then just talk the talk. Not to say that this is easy to accomplish, but definitely doable.
^It's very realistic. If you know someone who's important at the bank, so long as you're not a complete screw up (your gpa is below 3.0 and/or you went to a school no one has heard of), you've got a chance. Particularly at smaller banks where power is less spread out and there's a few top guys who can do WHATEVER they want.
to reiterate... connections are the key
Like Brian from M&I says, you probably overestimate your competition.
I go to a non-target and I had practically no experience. One part-time summer internship that was unrelated to finance between freshman and sophomore year. 8 weeks, 20hrs/week max. I basically went on vacation every summer while my friends busted their asses at internships. I did other things, of course, but only stuff that was really interesting to me. If I had posted my resume on here, everyone would have said I should look for a job in BO.
Instead, I got a FO role at one of the top 25 AM firms. I got quite a few FO interviews at other places through networking, but I had no connections for this particular job and did no networking. It's located across the country and all I had to do was submit my resume online and go through the interview process after they contacted me. It also happened to be my top choice.
I basically did everything wrong and ended up with an amazing job. I wouldn't recommend my path to anybody though. I very well could have ended up in BO if I didn't get lucky. All my story shows is how stupid and random the whole job search process is.
It's pretty realistic. Like everyone else said.
Freshman no finance experience (Originally Posted: 05/21/2014)
I am a rising college sophomore aiming to go into finance. i have a high GPA at a high ranking northeast university (non-target) and a student economics research position. i aim to study abroad for one semester at a high-ranking British University (think LSE, UCL, Kings College) and intern during that study abroad semester, in addition to two summer finance internships. Will those four experiences be sufficient on a resume to break into Wall Street Finance, as well as study abroad? Or is it pointless to worry if i haven't got no finance experience as a freshman? thanks
Freshman internships are not all that important. From what I understand they are not the norm, although they help in securing the sophomore internship, which in turn could heavily influence your junior internship.
I have an economics research position as a freshman and i am looking to get an internship on my study abroad - is that okay if i want to get a finance internship sophomore summer (a good one)?
Your sophomore internship just has to be related to finance if you want to get an SA position for junior year. Lots of juniors who got SA roles have had random finance internships during their sophomore year. The soph. year finance internship just shows that you're passionate about finance and that you're competent. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "solid", but just know that you need to be exposed to the financial industry. Keep in mind though that you'd still have to network and not just rely on your experiences, no matter how good of an internship you end up getting.
In order to get your soph. internship, you don't necessarily have to have finance internships in your freshman year. It might've helped you get a really good soph. internship if you did, but it really isn't necessary. You do however need some sort of work experience on your resume in order to show that you're not lazy and that you're capable of being a competent worker and following directions. This in turn will help you get a soph internship. Again, remember to network though.
thanks. so if i get an internship while i study abroad, and maybe get a "really good" soph summer internship that would put me in good standing? will the research experience (i am also writing a literature review on the ACA, fwiw) and the study abroad internship be good enough? i am not quite sure what firms i should be targeting to network at since i am at a non-target (but still top 5 finance school in the us) school and have a high gpa? Meanwhile, what should I be doing to build my resume during the summer (self teaching, reading up on finance, etc)?
Chance me for BB (No relevant experience =/) (Originally Posted: 10/30/2013)
I'm a dual degree (finance + bioengineering) 5th year student at target graduating in Dec 2014 (total of 5.5 yrs in school) . Looking to get a banking internship this summer at a BB.
Solid numbers - SAT (2310), GPA (3.97).
Have no relevant experience in banking because I was premed for most of my undergrad. My experiences include 3 different research projects. Also have a 1st author publication and several school awards.
Since when did WSO become College Confidential?
As repeated on this website time and time again, network your ass off. You have demonstrated intelligence, you just need a good story to express your interest and explain why you're coming to the party so late.
Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.
If you want to continue that sort of pre-med track, do healthcare banking. Easy transition of interest, makes for a good story, and you can clearly handle the hours. As said before, you have the intelligence and pedigree, just network and demonstrate a specific interest in banking anyway you can.
No work experience, great GPA, lots of EC hours, where to start? (Originally Posted: 09/08/2009)
I am a sophomore at a non-target institution. I have put in lots of hours in finance related EC's, and have a 3.75 GPA. However, my resume has a glaring hole in it from absolutely no finance related work experience. I am interested in S&T, AM, and HF's, in that order. How can I break in at any level with such a big disadvantage?
Lastly, for languages and other skills, is it ok to put that you are in the process of learning a language? It may sound like bullshit but its true and I searched for similar questions and found no answers.
Thanks to all who help.
Why don't you apply for a summer internship at a BB. A PWM SA position should be relatively easy to get. From there you can network your way into a S&T internship after your junior year.
as a sophomore you are fine. Network, and try and get either something at a boutique or PWM at a big firm so you have a big name on your resume. That should put you in good shape for SA positions after JR year.
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Relax. Sophomores are not expected to have finance work experience. The finance ECs will communicate your interest in finance. nst is right in that PWM positions are much easier to come by for a sophomore internship. That will give you some relevant experience to make you more marketable for S&T after your junior year.
You can put the language you're learning in the Interests section of your resume at the bottom. I don't know that you get any credit for putting something like Beginning Mandarin there, but it might be a point of interest that someone wants to talk to you about.
Investment Bank Cover Letter Example - http://bit.ly/lOjRK
Here's a link to the top advice on Gotta Mentor related to getting a job on Wall Street. (registration required, but it's free) The Best Advice for Investment Banking Job Seekers - http://bit.ly/KFHgw
Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
Thanks for all the help. Whether people are lying or just really knew what they wanted to do, it seemed like everyone on here already has finance work experience starting after Freshman year. I have made some adjustments to my resume and will post it online for public criticism when I get the chance.
Getting Internships with No Experience (Originally Posted: 07/07/2013)
Just like many others on these forums, I am very interested in getting an internship in IB or at least finance next summer (I'm a rising sophomore at a non-target). But a few people have told me to seek out school-year internships, which is something I would really like as well. The alumni at Boutique IB's in my area are limited, so I am planning on cold-calling/emailing as many as I can in the near future.
But my question is: how does one structure the call/email when there's no experience to back me up? In other words, what could I be saying in order for people at these Boutique IB's to want to give me chance? Should I be offering to work unpaid?
As the title states, I don't have any job/internship experience in finance yet - just a large class project and being part of 2 business clubs. If not a Boutique IB, should I be trying for a school-year internship with PWM or something else? Some guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
No one?
Have you tried using the search function? Or google? If you want everything handed to you, you won't get an internship in this industry.
Anyway, I have had a great day so far, so I'll help you a little bit.
Firstly, you say your name, school, year and where you have worked. You let the person respond (will probably ask what you want). At this point, you can just say why you really want to do an internship at XYZ with the XYZ department (have REALLY good reasons) and it's your passion to work in this department because of XYZ. If they are saying we are not hiring, etc. just ask them if they are in charge (they are usually not) and talk with that person. Just keep pushing until you get a definite no from the person who is in charge of hiring. Once you get that no, go on to the next company.
Secondly, look for off-cycle internships in your area as well as online. They are super competitive, but possible to get if you are in a less populated area.
Thirdly, have you contacted ALL the alumni in your area of interests as yet? If not, do it today!
Sorry, I didn't mean for things to be handed to me. I have searched google and WSO and found some answers, but I wanted a more specific answer. In other words, I had seen cold-call/email formats, but they usually had previous experience or a target school in the statement. I wanted to know how to give a firm a reason to hire some random kid with no experience.
Thanks for the response though, I suppose that is all I really can do. I'll start getting in touch with as many finance firms as possible.
Oh and about working for free. Just say that you would be willing to work for a salary below what the market currently pays. If they still don't show any interest, you can say that you are also willing to do an unpaid one.
If you would have looked at the templates properly, then you would know that the school and experience(s) are only part of the first sentence in which you say your name, etc. The second sentence includes things such as I want to do IB in department XYZ because of ABC Look at the templates again. Change them so they fit your situation and personalize them.
Yeah that's the template I was using.
My question was really about the experience part; since the OCR for IB at my school isn't good at all, I was wondering how I could go about cold-calling/emailing banks if I didn't have anything going for me, other than a fairly high GPA and extra-curriculars.
Unpaid would probably be my best bet at this point (for a school-year internship at least), and once I hopefully get experience, I can start getting paid internships.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out though, I really appreciate it.
I feel like you answered your own question. You have a good GPA and good ECs going for you. You just need to be able to show your interest, and having relevant coursework will help too
Investment Banks No Previous Experience ? (Originally Posted: 02/10/2015)
Does anyone know of any banks that hire Full Time analysts with no previous work experience in Banking ? I actually interned last summer in F500 Corporate position but i'm targeting finance roles. I have landed 4 ib interviews through the recruiting process all boutiques or middle market. I'm curious are there anymore banks that don't want someone with a summer analyst stint ?! Any Banks that people know or stories would be appreciated getting depressed....also please message me as well !!
Chop shops
Finance with no finance experience? (Originally Posted: 05/09/2007)
I want to get more call backs from ibanks/HFs/preMBA PE/VCs based on resume. I have a high GPA from a top 3 school but no traditional finance experience (i.e. very vague idea of how to do modeling...).
Any thoughts?
Also, just landed an interview at Bridgewater (so they know I have little to zero finance experience). Anything I should be emphasizing in particular in interview (besides the obvious "why I want to do finance even though I've never done it before" speech...)?
nope... if you are from HYP you'll have no problem at all no matter your major; just be sure to demonstrate you have some quantitative skills (e.g. you can add numbers)
Breaking in from undergrad with no experience (Originally Posted: 06/06/2012)
I'm a rising senior (finance major) at a target school with a 3.7 GPA. My problem is that my current internship deals more with personal financial planning rather than IB or corporate finance. I'm looking for some advice on what I should be looking to do from now up to the start of full-time recruitment in the fall in order to maximize my chances of getting solid banking interviews and, eventually, offers.
Network everyday. Use LinkedIn to get info interviews.
Keep networking. Also try to set something up for the fall and hopefully you'll be able to get some new points on your resume for ft recruitment.
I had a somewhat similar situation and the fall internship helped a lot.
It's all about networking! You basically need to spin your experience from your private wealth management to show what qualitative or quantitative transferable skills you developed that could be applied to banking; not just the job specific tasks you performed. Work hard and make your own luck.
I have no financial experience; what do I do? (Originally Posted: 10/21/2007)
I need some advice for my cover letters. I need to apply to as many financial institutions (and law firms) as I can in order to get some sort of part-time student job. The problem is, I live in France; I started college here and it looks as though I'm going to be here for awhile. I go to a fairly good school but my GPA isn't that hot because I've had various personal problems, I'm studying Econ in French (my mother-tongue is English) and I've been working like a dog on the side.
I'd like to use my professional experience to make up for my flaws. The problem is that I have no financial experience. I worked for a small IT company for about two years and I've been an English teacher for almost a year. I've worked both full time (40hrs) and part-time (about 30hrs/week) while going to school and I need to switch to something that's in my field. How do I use my previous experience to prove that I can manage in finance etc.?
Thanks!
What does this have to do with investment banking?
sorry sorry..meant to post this in Monkey Business but was really sleepy and didn't check..
No Relevant Experience (Originally Posted: 07/20/2009)
If one does not have any relevant finance experience should they still include other employment?
I'm sorry I forgot to add the following, "In respect to their resume"
Yes, you should absolutely, unless it is completely unrelated to business, finance, accounting, management, sales, etc. I think you should always ave at least one internship or PT position on your resume, to at least show that you've worked, and that you're capable of functioning in a professional environment.
Basically, it depends on what you mean by relevant. Most business-related positions are at least, very marginally relevant - so list them. Without an example of what you mean by not relevant, it's impossible to say whether you should include at least one position on your resume. It also depends on the other aspects of your resume - if you've got a lot of leadership/ECs/club involvement, etc, you may be able to get away with it, as opposed to having very minimal ECs and projects.
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I would always list some employment (i.e. never leave the employment section blank). As mentioned, hopefully you have some ECs and leadership positions that can take up some of the slack.
Getting Internships with no experience (Originally Posted: 01/19/2011)
During my first years of university I didn't have much time for extra carriculars, internships because of a part-time job. I studied, worked and slept. Now that I got interested in pursuing IB I realize that people instead of working are running student clubs and doing internships. Is it possible to get an internship at a bank with minimal experience ? Should I list my unrelated part-time experience on my resume ? Even though I know how to model I don't think banks will take me seriously with construction experience on my resume. Any advice is highly appreciated!
Getting a junior year internship at a BB will be very difficult without prior experience (altho possible with networking). Your best bet is to network/cold call/send out emails to tons of smaller firms asking if they can take on an intern.
what year are you?
So true... No experience means your only option is boutiques, unless you have an impressive resume that makes up for it.
Your best option I think would be probably boituqes. Which isn't a bad thing at all. If you excel in an internship at a boutique your junior year summer, you can defintely levearge that for a bulge bracket offer when the time for that comes.
It'll defintely show you insight into how you can change up a resume that looks like a joke into something much more solid. The first/original resume looks like a joke for a potential IB candidate, he cleans it up nicely though emphasizing the right things.
You should definitely aim for spring/fall internships (in addition to summer internships), whether paid or not. It'll give you something to put on your resume, build your list of contacts, and give you a "starter" inside look at the finance industry
Possible to get into IB with no prior IB experience? (Originally Posted: 01/19/2013)
Hi everyone, I am seeking some career advice as I am experiencing a hard time in my career development. I am from China. After I finished my college in 2009 I came to BU for master program in Economics and graduated in summer 2011. (I've been blaming myself that I didn't network much to secure an intern when I was in school, only had one internship in China, but not in IB). I've done two contract jobs at SS and JPM, all doing fund accounting, which is boring and far away from my career goal. Is there any possibility that I could get an internship, even unpaid, as an IB analyst? Because I've applied for many (countless) investment analysis jobs, no replies. So I started thinking about getting an internship, just wanted an experience to build up my resume. Not trusting the staffing agencies any more, they keep placing me into the contract fund accounting roles. Any advice? I know it's probably too late to ask for an internship, but I am sincere to know the fact if it's still possible. Or any smaller firms suggested? Thanks in advance!
BTW, after some search on Google about IB internship, I found the Exchange Analyst program, now it's called New York School of Finance. Is it worth to have this probably about one month summer unpaid internship? Any helps on my situation? As I've see a lot of job requirements for the junior IB analyst saying a minimum 6-month IB internship experience.
My background: MA in Eco, from Boston University, GPA-3.6 Bachelor in Business Administration, from a decent university in China. GPA-3.6
Work experience in US: Fund accounting jobs at SS and JPM.
wanted to get out of fund accounting world.
Any advice or comments appreciated!!
bump**
To point out the obvious, everyone in IB had no experience in IB at some point in their career.
No experience (Originally Posted: 06/05/2011)
I'm a rising sophomore at a top 5 liberal arts college, and I plan to major in History but I want to go into Investment banking. I fully plan on using my school's resources for networking and internships, but I wanted the forum's opinion on the following: relevant skills. How much will knowing relevant skills like Excel shortcuts and valuation modeling help me? Do I really need to know these things to get an Internship? If so, where is the best place to learn them, seeing as my school really doesn't offer courses like that. Also, I'm thinking of studying at the London School of Economics my junior year. How can I use that to my advantage? Should I take accounting/finance courses there? Will this even help me at all? I'm in need of advice.
My advice,
Make sure your story is rock solid on why you want to do investment banking, have a minor in finance/accounting and get a high GPA (3.7 and higher).
Please visit mergers and inquisitions on how you can make the switch from a non-traditional background.
Middlebury is a very good school, with a very good economics program. Have you ever considered double majoring in History and Economics? I think that would increase your chances, at a relatively low cost (at most, you'd have to stay an extra year).
I have considered the Econ track, but it's just really not my passion. The Econ program is well known, but it's nothing special. I've taken three classes in it already, and I really can't stand it. I'd consider taking the investing class they offer (Economics of Investing), but from what I understand of Analyst level IB, one really doesn't need an Econ background so much as an accounting background, which my school doesn't offer. I'd consider doing the Econ minor, or possibly even the International Studies major focusing on Economics, but I'm not sure if either of those would help. Thoughts?
Fair enough. I pursued economics mainly because I was passionate about it, so if you hate it, then there's really no point. If I was in your shoes, I would self-study finance and accounting, but that's just me.
I don't know, basic economics is essential in anything related to finance. Whatever you do, don't mention that you hate Econ when you interview at a bank lol.
Dude, undergrad econ doesn't get interesting until you hit Upper-Div Macroeconomics. That course is ESSENTIAL if you want to understand the important stuff on WSJ. I would suggest taking that course ASAP so you can build up knowledge weekly through the WSJ. Baisc accounting courses are the same anywhere you take them. Go take them at a JC if you want it that badly.
I hate to burst bubbles, but what they teach in undergrad macroeconomics is highly contested (many would even call it rubbish). I don't know why there is such a divide between what many macroeconomists believe/study, and what they teach undergrads in their macroeconomics courses.
I have several friends that graduated from Middlebury and there is a large presence on wallstreet given the size of the school. Alumni help out a lot, so make sure to network. There should be no problem majoring in history, but you should also minor in economics atleast - keep your grades up, and understand that LSE is a full year program, so you may be at a disadvantage to get a summer analyst position for the summer after your junior year.
I'd have no problem self studying finance and accounting. Are there any courses/books you'd recommend?
No Work Experience? (Originally Posted: 09/05/2010)
I am a junior at a target hoping to get a nice SA in trading or ER at a BB next summer.
However, I have absolutely no work experience or prior internships in finance. I had a chance to intern last summer at a few financial firms. However, the work was mostly accounting/BO work, so instead I chose to do research with professor at my university. The research had to do with emerging markets and financial markets.
I am wondering how this would look when I apply for SA roles next year? I know GPA/experience are generally considered the two most important things. Many of my peers have one or multiple finance internships. I am wondering how BB's will look upon my research experience?
Most of my friends had no relevant internship experience before getting SA gigs or other internships in finance or trading. Some of us (including myself) got FT offers without even having internships at all, ever (I wouldn't recommend that obviously). If you go to a good school, have good grades, have been doing something with your life, and can network okay, you should be fine.
Sucks that a non target kid could have like 3 solid finance internships and not even have his resume looked at while a target kid gets 10 interviews just because of the name of his school. Such is life.
Getting coffee & lunches and doing solid data entry 3 times doesn't make you a better candidate.
yeah, it's amazing that the BBs put up their resume drop sites with straight faces, despite the open secret that they'll never look at most of what comes in.
How is it that different from any other competitive industry or academic institution?
Network network network. Resume drops are all bullshit. Find someone to talk to and impress and have them pass on your resume to HR.
Sucks that a non target kid could have like 3 solid finance internships and not even have his resume looked at while a target kid gets 10 interviews just because of the name of his school. Such is life. --->
I know admissions isn't always fair and financial aid is always an issue but generally target/non target = proxy for 4 years of high school accomplishment and grades, which should definitely trump 6-8 months of data entry
Getting into I-banking after graduation from target (no internship experience) (Originally Posted: 12/16/2012)
.
Did recruiting for summer analyst already pass for you? If it hasn't, then consider this route instead of the private equity internship. If it has, then start pounding pavement, and get intimate with your alumni network.
Very hard, BB's are structured and recruit people still in school. Aim for mid markets and boutiques.
See if you like finance at the PE firm and then re-evaluate going into your senior year. Unsure why you committed to the PE firm this year and didn't try to get a BB internship. Unsure what the ^ post is talking about- boutiques and MMs hire from summer analyst classes as well. All this having been said, as a 3.8 student from Duke with a summer in PE you will at least be competitive for full time recruiting, and despite it being tougher, there are definitely spots at all the BBs to be filled.
Thanks for the responses thus far - much appreciated. The reason I am doing the PE job instead of trying to get a BB internship is because I am an athlete at Duke and need to be in the area for the summer due to our summer practice schedule, which rules out BB internships.
Typical dookie
Why do you have to wait until graduation? Go through on-campus recruiting next fall. You will get full-time consideration at the BB level if you intern in private equity. It shouldn't hinder you at all. Make sure to network with bankers during the summer...I'm sure your fund will know plenty.
Landing an internship with no experience (Originally Posted: 08/23/2013)
Hey monkeys. I will be starting college in a few weeks, and I've really set my mind on an internship for the following summer. Being in my situation, anything (small boutique IB, PWM, accounting) lined up for next summer will be absolutely beneficial for my resume, and for personal development. Sadly, I screwed around in high school, so I have no meaningful experiences on my resume. Does anyone have any tips on how I can secure an internship for next summer.
I'm planning on cold-emailing/cold-calling, setting up informational interviews and asking intelligent questions to build a rapport, and to try to network my way into an internship. However, once he asks to see my resume, I'm sure disappointment and contempt will shine in his eyes, as the crappiness of my resume sinks in.
I'm also planning to get into some executive roles at college, while also joining business related clubs.
Aside from what I listed, is there anything else I can do to land an internship for next summer.
Thanks for the advice and stay classy monkeys!
From my experience, I broke into IB via a regional boutique.
During the beginning of my sophmore year, here is what I had:
Near perfect GPA No extracurricular No network
So for me, I knew I had to build a network and increase my extracurricular to boost my skillset.
Luckily for me, I had joined a finance club on campus and became one of their execs on the external portfolio (get to talk to people about sponsorships). This first of all got me surrounded with students with similar objectives. We all wanted banking, trading, private equity. We helped each other out by providing each other with reading materials that will help you break into the industry. Another good thing was that the club had a fairly lengthy history so we had a nice accumulation of reading materials from as far back as 20 years ago. This helped me at least to know a bit about the industry and what skill set is needed to break in.
In addition, my campus had a portfolio management program designed to give finance students an opportunity to manage a large portfolio.The recruitment process for the portfolio management program involved writing an analyst report on a stock and building financial models. This gave me an edge during the interviews as I had some good stories to tell during my recruitment. I didn't get the gig at the portfolio management but got a gig at the investment bank.
So long story short, do some extra curricular, but make sure they're related to your field.
Hope that helps
Thanks for the great advice!!
You have no experience coming out of high school? Dude you're so fucked.
I'm a huge fan of the law of large numbers, cause recruiting can be erratic. use that to your advantage and send out as many applications as you can. also, try to call a few places and get your name out there. Get involved in extracurriculars so that you have something interesting to talk about.
Landing a first internship is always a pain but everbody went through this, and it is usually a combination of lots and lots of applications, some networking, great gpa and interesting extracurriculars (doesn't even have to be leadership positions at this point) that gives you the edge for at leas one nice position for the summer. Rather a game of perseverance than of skill... At least thats what i can say ;)
Thanks! If I plug at it hard enough, I am confident that eventually, I'll land at least one summer offer.
That's very unfortunate. I had 3 BB IBD internships when I entered freshmen year in college, with 2 return offers. Leveraged those into Blackstone PE SA in freshmen year summer. I'd say you're a bit behind.
damn, now i feel bad trying to give serious advice
No previous banking experience to FT (Originally Posted: 02/25/2015)
Non target with Internships in: BB PWM (Not Merrill lynch) and Incoming BB MO SA
I have learned a good amount of modeling on my own and have developed a firm understanding of valuation/accounting with Rosenbaum/M&I etc.
How do I address having no prior IB experience for FT recruiting? Looking to join a Coverage Group/ECM/DCM at a BB/MM. I've done well with networking and went through IBD SA recruiting at a few BB's with no offer. Disregarding interview performance, how can I prove to be a low risk candidate? I have read posts where others have been in a similar position, killed the interview but got dinged because they were perceived as high risk due to the fact that they did not have relevant IB expereince @"brutalglide"
Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated
I hate to be that guy, but without prior banking experience, getting a FT offer at a BB or top MM is going to be extremely tough. BBs usually fill their one or two open spots with their accelerated superdays, which are made up of candidates from other BBs, EBs, or top MM firms. The simple fact that you have no IB experience makes you an extremely high-risk candidate.
I certainly wish you the best of luck, but am trying to put things in perspective. Keep an open mind and look at some local boutiques as well.
That makes sense, however it is frustrating however that some of my peers who have done IB internships at boutiques have done nothing related to valuation/modeling etc. I.e powerpoints and coffee
@"Sil" What are some steps I can take to reduce my risk? Take a Training the Street course? I ask because at the BB's i got dinged at, the alumni have told me to keep in touch for FT so I feel like I have some strong relationships to work with
You aren't really that guy... just realistic.
To the OP:
Honestly, there is a trend of increasing competition for analyst roles. You'd be going against solid second tier analysts, top MM analysts with experience, the actual analyst programs, etc. The natural choice if you were in the hiring position is to pick the guy that can hit the ground running.
It comes down to them taking you or someone with existing experience, or even a new analyst from their program so he will already have structured training, and a prorated bonus on top of that.
Yeah its messed up. You're probably a good and hard (this is your chance for a thats what she said) worker. The competition now is just outrageous. We see higher trends of antidepressants and you wonder why.
Not saying this can't be done, but its highly unlikely to say the least. They almost always need the experience and want laterals unless its a program. If anything, don't start at a BB. You don't always just get into the olympics. You eventually get invited. Down the road, the sacrifice of a few years won't make a difference. If you're smart enough and good at what you do, you will find a way.
bump
No relevant experience? (Originally Posted: 08/30/2011)
Hello,
I am currently in the process of separating from the Army after 5 years of active duty service as an officer. I am currently applying to a few T10 MBA programs and I'm exploring equity research as a possible career after B-school. I have noticed however that most, if not all, ER analysts on the sell-side typically have either some sort of relevant experience in either the industry they cover or some other type of finance/Big4 audit experience.
Coming directly out of the army with no relevant industry/finance exp. will I find it much more difficult to find a sell-side ER position at a BB? Will I find the same difficulty on the buy-side as well? Is there anything I can do to bolster my chances? Perhaps taking the CFA Level I in school?
Thanks
You won't start out as an analyst, you will start as associate and gain experience from there. Having a top 10 MBA should be good enough to get you in the door, then hopefully one day you'll be able to pick up your own coverage.
Don't take the CFA exams if you're already attending a top MBA program. Just take full advantage of all networking opportunities at school and go through the normal recruiting steps.
Big 4 audit experience? What...
There is a great/extensive network of armed forces individuals on the street. Your best bet would be to leverage any connections you can make through that and whichever b-school you attend.
Try to find an internship once you separate and are in the process of finding a b-school also.
Post a new thread with this or a similar title "Military -> MBA -> ER" and you'll grab the attention of all the military guys. The military network is extremely powerful. You did your duty, now open yourself to the benefits: you've earned it.
^^^^ Absolutely.
Only "common" if you did accounting specifically in the industry that your covering in ER and have a CA/CPA. Otherwise, no one cares.
CFA is generally expected once you start but if you can manage a few levels before you interview (without sacrificing networking, grades, etc) its worth it. I've hired people over others solely based on the fact that they have a level or 2 of the CFA exams done (no one wants to teach you basic finance/accounting).
All I know is CFA is waste of ur time if u don't have any experience. First try to work on ur networking and internship...
This couldn't be farther from the truth. Military aside, even with a top 10 MBA you will likely need to take the CFA exams at some point. The days of ER promotions to a Senior Analyst without one are pretty much over. You will certainly be competing with applicants who have both, even for junior level positions. It is not a bad idea to get level 1 out of the way like many people (try) do while still in their undergrad. The same principles will apply - - It will show that you have an interest specifically in finance and, given the level of difficulty, it will show a certainly level of competency.
Most ER shops I've come across do not look at applicants who are not at least signed up for level 1. There are just too many who are CFAs or are pretty close. And many have an MBA.
Post a new thread with this or a similar title "Military -> MBA -> ER" and you'll grab the attention of all the military guys. The military network is extremely powerful.
Go to a Top 10 B school and network, don't worry about internships after separation or anything like that.
If you're an academy grad and/were in a combat position, you'll have no problems with finding a position during your MBA.
enjoy your free time after separation and enjoy the breather because B-school will be an adjustment and then it's off to work again.
Any opportunity you'll find will have to be through a connection anyway. We can't help you.
The forum is one way to network when you cant meet relevant people in the field
Unfortunately, I don't have anything available either, sorry.
CS was hiring for 1st yrs as recently as 1 month ago, but not sure if they've wrapped up.
A lot of banks look to increase head count in June/July, when a lot of 2nd and 3rd year analysts leave for PE/HF/B-school.
I heard DB is looking for most groups...also, I heard BAML may be looking as well (contact there told me to give him my resume so he could forward it as groups were considering hiring)...Jefferies m&a just got done hiring a few people but may still be looking...nothing happening at goldman
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