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Non-BB Equity Research Q&A with First Year Analyst

Points)

on 7/2/12 at 5:00am

Hey all,

Was reading through Flake's ER Q&A posted around the holidays and thought that his thread was fantastic. My experience / background is a little different than his was, so I wanted to start this thread as an opportunity to help provide at least some insight into other ER routes that aren't predicated on being at a BB.

Forgive me if it's redundant to some of you, but this was something I wish I would have had when exploring other options.

For a bit of background information on me, I went to a very small non-target UG school and studied Finance. It was a writing intensive college, which has proved to be quite beneficial for me in my current job. I did well in UG (3.8+), and used the GPA to go to a non-target MBA that is a CFA Partner School after finishing UG. While in school, I cleared Levels I and II, and am sitting for Level III in June. Comparable GPA in grad school.F

Unfortunately, with no solid experience and a non-target background, the good GPA was relatively meaningless for me, so I worked really hard to get an internship in ER. Spent a summer covering financials with a solid independent shop, and after graduating the MBA program I took a job with an independent shop covering special situations. I'm a generalist analyst and have gotten to see many industries, some I love, some I don't. Through the experience, I was able to get an analyst job with a boutique buy-side shop that I have since started.

My point is this: if you want to do ER, it doesn't mean BB or bust. Hopefully this thread can help interested people in some way. Feel free to ask away and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

Tags:

Awesome. I love

Flake

(Neanderthal, 3,600

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 8:45am

Awesome. I love these.

Actually have a question. What drives/influences your decision to pick up new coverage? I assume your shop doesn't have a banking arm. I just know that banking can have a lot of influence on analysts who want to drop or pick up another name. Also, I assume there is less pressure from company management when you change your ratings. I witnessed angry calls from c-level execs complaining that their stock was downgraded (potentially ruining your banks chances of being part of that next offering). Sometimes it seems that despite all of these regulations, there are still forces out there that may influence an analyst's objectivity and view. I guess what I'm trying to get at is: what are some of the benefits of working in a small/well respected shop vs. a BB firm?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

Could you talk a little more

Value_added

(Senior Orangutan, 462

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 8:34am

Could you talk a little more about your role as a generalist analyst? Would you spend segments of time around a single industry or was any industry fair game at any time? How is it determined what companies/industries you will cover?

Will you continue as a generalist in your new role?

Appreciate you taking questions.

"Could you talk a little more

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 8:51am

"Could you talk a little more about your role as a generalist analyst? Would you spend segments of time around a single industry or was any industry fair game at any time? How is it determined what companies/industries you will cover?

Will you continue as a generalist in your new role?"

Good question. Due to the specific situations that I spend my time analyzing, they tend to be pretty cyclical in that companies will do them in droves. So, despite being a generalist analyst, there tends to be some migration towards at least some degree of focus over time. So, though I've probably worked in 7-10 sectors, I've worked on multiple companies in each.

I think there are Pros and Cons to the generalist role. First and foremost, I think the biggest pro is that you become adept at being able to analyze just about anything thrown at you. Second, you get to see how things relate across sectors, which is something that could be harder when focused exclusively on one sector. Third, I think it's pretty helpful in terms of being on a PM track if that would be what you would look for.

On the downside, though, is that you are not an expert in any one sector. In certain areas, this forces you to be more conservative, and can present some challenges if you would be interviewing for a sector-specific role later (if desired that is).

As a special situations analyst, the specific transactions we monitor leads me to what we cover. Then, applying some market cap restrictions and a few sector screen outs, that's how my coverage is shaped.

In the new role, I'm not entirely sure. They asked me what sectors I really like, so I'd imagine I may be given coverage in a few primary areas that are interesting to me and that they need the bandwidth on.

Can you go through an average

dudguy

(Monkey, 60

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 11:13am

Can you go through an average day in your life?

Also, how much do you make (range)?

Love these threads...keep

Maherj1

(Baboon, 169

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 11:41am

Love these threads...keep them coming.

Few Q's (and sorry for being blatant)

Difference between BB and non BB compensation. How much does this vary? For instance are their ER shops that pay really bad money (sub big4 pay lets say)?

Exit ops compared to BB?

How difficult is it to make the transition from non BB to BB/upgrade shop

Does the work differ from that done in BB? Is the client base vastly different and do you get as much exposure to company management/buy side

Excellent thread, thank you.

UFOinsider

(Human, 10,349

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 11:44am

Excellent thread, thank you.

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

Flake wrote: Actually have a

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 2:09pm

Flake:

Influence/driver -- like i said above, I do a situational work that tends to come in droves -- so we're not really ever at a lack of coverage options. Fundamentally, our shop is value-based, and so we pick up coverage where we see there is value that is being completely overlooked. Transaction drives us to the names, then we can infer where other similar transactions may occur, and be on the lookout for clients.

Benefits -- I can write whatever I want, whenever I want. Clearly, there are issues if management gets wind of a piece and is unhappy that you questioned them. But, that being said, my job is not to please them -- my job is to get the stock right for our clients. Also, being in a smaller shop, I've gotten to get a significant amount of responsibility much quicker, handle a lot of conference calls with clients, and really get to improve on pitching a stock and finding out what matters to drive the name forward.

dudguy wrote: Can you go

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 4:15pm

dudguy:

Can you go through an average day in your life?

Also, how much do you make (range)?

Average day:

7:00 AM - in the office
7 - 8 AM - read news, catch up on transactions covering
8 - 8:30 AM - talk with director of research, chat about data coming out, companies covering
8:30 AM - 12:00 PM - company research, writing reports, building/updating models, listening to conferences
12:00 PM - 12:30 PM Grab lunch and scan news, continue reading
12:30 PM - 5 PM - Continue with morning work, but often will also have conference calls with clientele, meet with superiors to pitch ideas, go over thesis, etc.
5:00 PM - 5:15/30 PM - Finish up and leave

** When reports are going out, typically will be later, but our reports come out monthly so we have some weeks where it's less. All in, probably like 50 - 60 on average of solid consistent work.

I'm not in NYC, so obviously there's a haircut there. Also, given less experience, there's a bit of a discount there as well. So below bulge bracket based on cost of living, and a slight experience discount to consider as well. Although it depends on the shop, most of the time you start lower, but company growth & your comp are more closely tied.

Maherj1 wrote: Love these

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 4:19pm

Maherj1:

Love these threads...keep them coming.

Few Q's (and sorry for being blatant)

Difference between BB and non BB compensation. How much does this vary? For instance are their ER shops that pay really bad money (sub big4 pay lets say)?

Exit ops compared to BB?

How difficult is it to make the transition from non BB to BB/upgrade shop

Does the work differ from that done in BB? Is the client base vastly different and do you get as much exposure to company management/buy side

For comp, see the above post. Like i said, depending on the shop, it could vary significantly. One shop I was at the guys left hedge fund gigs to join, so they're comp is quite fair. Relative to BB, though, you'd obviously take a cut.

In my opinion, though, near term differences are likely resolved in long run, particularly with the QUALITY of where you're working. Which leads to exit ops -- could see jumps to MM shops, large buyside locations, potentially even BB if you network well (what else is new?) My job helped me break into a more boutique buyside value shop that's growing nicely.

Clientele should not be extremely different -- large/small hedge funds, long only players, money managers, etc. It also depends on the type of research you're providing -- for us, being generalists, a primary sector-focused fund may not see enough value if the transactions aren't hitting his/her space specifically.

golfer, thanks for doing this

WallStreetOasis.com

(Human, 12,074

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 4:39pm

golfer, thanks for doing this - you're now a Certified User.

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Did you get recruited out of

freemarketeer

(Senior Baboon, 220

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 8:45pm

Did you get recruited out of the sell-side? If not, how'd you get to the buy-side?

freemarketeer wrote: Did you

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 9:11pm

freemarketeer:

Did you get recruited out of the sell-side? If not, how'd you get to the buy-side?

A few months ago, I got a call from a former internship location saying that they knew I had a job, but had received a request for a referral for a new analyst to join the team as the company was expanding. He passed me along, and the buyside shop and I had a phone interview + in-person interview with five team members, along with submission of a bit of work on a company they assigned to me.

So it was not formal recruitment, per se, but more referral-based and a good fit with the team at the shop.

Is it possible to get a job

acelion

(Senior Chimp, 17

Points)

on 1/19/12 at 11:56pm

Is it possible to get a job at a independent ER firm out of Undergrad?

How is the current hiring situation?

In my current situation, I am graduating this semester and I would like to get into ER haven't thought about applying to Independent shops. Is it too late to apply?

acelion, unfortunately the

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 1/20/12 at 7:15am

acelion, unfortunately the answers to these questions are not concrete. in general, I would say "it depends" to each.

Let me elaborate:

- To your first point about going in out of UG, I would say yes, it is possible. One of the firms that I worked with had a lot of junior analysts who came directly from UG. The shop was somewhat bigger than other independent shops -- about 30 - 40 people (mostly analysts), and has gotten bigger since. So I would say that the size of the independent firm matters. Also, you'd want to get a sense of what specifically the firm is covering to kind of see how hiring cycles.

For example, if you're a special situations shop (like mine), and you're seeing business cyclicality causing a vast amount of restructuring activities, then hiring needs will be on an uptick, particularly if the moves are sustainable. If the shop is a more traditional sector-by-sector coverage company, then hiring needs will be more based on the success of each sector in getting their product out there and having bandwidth needs to support a growing client base.

- Current hiring situation, again hard to generalize. But anecdotally, I know of several firms hiring now that haven't been on freezes and haven't cut capacity either in the midst of a struggling environment. This is largely based on the structure of independent ER -- once you gain a relatively large client base, you retain about 75-80% most of the time (some of the churn is based on either (a) person buying it just didn't use it; (b) budgetary cuts that prevent them from really doling out cash for other ER that they can get essentially free from other sell-side shops). The 20-25% churn is replaced by new customers, so essentially the revenues for the business are pretty stable, particularly if it's an up-front subscription fee not directly tied to trading performance. (**Note that these figures and % estimates are not exact and not always the case, but comparable to what I've been told).

- I don't think it's too late to apply at all. I got hired at two shops during "off-cycle" time at other large places. Since the shops tend to be smaller, they can fill needs when they need them. And if business is booming, they're always going to be looking to add talent. I'd say go for it. For a young person coming directly out of UG, yes you lose some of the structure that you'd get at a BB, but you also get a TON of responsibility, and really learn about what drives stocks fundamentally -- because if you're consistently wrong in your investment analysis for clients, you're product won't sell and you'll be out of work. Major BB shops have the same pressures as well, but they have other revenue areas for the firm as a whole that can/do help provide more security than a pure independent ER firm.

Keep in mind, these may be biased opinions, but this has been my experience and I've been thrilled with the experience gained, the knowledge picked up, and the quality of the guys I work with and the clientele I get to talk with every single day. In my opinion, my experience has been just as good as that of other bigger places, but that's also a matter of personal preference.

I woud like to know how you

arzoo

(Monkey, 41

Points)

on 5/9/12 at 9:00pm

arzoo: I woud like to know

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 5/10/12 at 6:40pm

Another great post. I did not

blueslord2910

(Senior Baboon, 227

Points)

on 5/10/12 at 7:01pm

blueslord2910: Another great

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 5/10/12 at 10:32pm

Do you remember the command

blueslord2910

(Senior Baboon, 227

Points)

on 5/10/12 at 10:38pm

golfer23: arzoo: I woud

energyanalyst

(Orangutan, 307

Points)

on 5/11/12 at 5:13pm

I have recently read another

blueslord2910

(Senior Baboon, 227

Points)

on 5/11/12 at 4:46pm

energyanalyst: 1) In my

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 5/12/12 at 10:41pm

I have recently read another

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 5/12/12 at 10:44pm

Could you talk a little bit

tangent style

(Baboon, 142

Points)

on 5/31/12 at 7:39pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

Could you talk a little bit

tangent style

(Baboon, 142

Points)

on 5/31/12 at 7:39pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

tangent style: Could you talk

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 5/31/12 at 8:08pm

Thanks golfer. One more if

tangent style

(Baboon, 142

Points)

on 6/1/12 at 10:46am

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

tangent style: A couple of

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 6/1/12 at 8:45pm

1) Do you see ER growing

burnsy

(Senior Monkey, 77

Points)

on 6/6/12 at 3:34am

"All things are difficult before they are easy"
- Thomas Fuller

burnsy: 1) Do you see ER

energyanalyst

(Orangutan, 307

Points)

on 6/6/12 at 2:55pm

burnsy: 1) Do you see ER

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 5:54pm

When you say young , just

energyanalyst

(Orangutan, 307

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 6:04pm

golfer23: burnsy: 1) Do you

tangent style

(Baboon, 142

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 6:06pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

tangent style: I'm familiar

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 6:10pm

energyanalyst: When you say

golfer23

(Senior Baboon, 208

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 6:10pm

Thanks for keeping this going

tangent style

(Baboon, 142

Points)

on 6/7/12 at 6:29pm

"Do not go gentle into that good night"

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The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Accept Terms & Conditions of Use *

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