Coming out of the closet--I don't drink

I started my IB analyst stint and I've attended these events where everyone would be drinking. I choose not to for my own reasons, but it feels so very awkward that I don't. I know that a huge part of advancement in finance involves being able to bond with your peers outside of the office, and drinking with colleagues is the usual outlet. I know it's a great way to unwind after long hours and I don't mind tagging along to wherever the team is headed but I just don't get involved with the drinking aspect.

Would this affect my advancement in my career? How should I go about this? Thanks

 

I know an investment banker at sub-VP level who doesn't drink who has done well. Not because he doesn't drink, but because he's reliable, gets things done and drinking together isn't a huge thing in the team he works in.

Everyone knows he doesn't drink and respects that. There may be a few jokes in front and behind his back on odd occasions, but he's valued for what he does in his job rather than whether he can down 10 shots in front of clients.

Whether it impacts your later career (ie when you've more relationship focused) depends on who your network is and how you interact with it. I know at least one MD in a relationship-based team who doesn't drink for religious reasons and keeps his position comfortably, indicating that not drinking with clients hasn't had a significant negative impact on his career. His religion (Mormon) keeps him from drinking, doesn't keep him from being obnoxious.

Key thing is consistency in front of your colleagues and clients - if you say you don't drink, never drink in front of them. If you make occasional exceptions, that will bite you in the ass.

tl;dr - you're an odd fish, but only slightly. Don't worry about it.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
adapt or die:

It's going to be very bad for you socially. You need to start drinking. What are these "my own reasons?" Just lay the cards on the table. I hope it's not something the flying spaghetti monster told you. Really, the only reason I can think of for not drinking at all is if you're truly an alcoholic.

You try way too hard.

 

jeez. "Very bad for you" ... sounds really intense. I rarely drink and that's b/c I'm a light weight, don't love the taste of any alcohol and have several alcoholics in my family (both parents and some sisters to name a few)... I'm sure the guy s reason(s) could be something other than being an alcoholic.

 
Dingdong08:

I don't trust a man who won't have a drink with me unless they're a fallen soldier (alcoholic).

Very Greek. I can't remember who said it (not Socrates based on my googling), but some ancient Greek guy said something about knowing the true character of a man by what he says when "in his cups".

Not surprising @Dingdong08 would have this view.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
Dingdong08:

I don't trust a man who won't have a drink with me unless they're a fallen soldier (alcoholic).

As horrible as it sounds I'm the same way. @"SSits"'s first reply was too generous IMO. I think it will significantly impact your career if you're trying to rise through the ranks in an environment that will require some political savvy. Plus, most of the time hanging out with co-workers, let alone most of your friends, without drinking is pretty fucking boring.
 
CorpFinanceGuy:
As horrible as it sounds I'm the same way. @SSits's first reply was too generous IMO.

I'm happy to be contradicted. I haven't grown up in the US system and transplanted here a year ago. While the two examples I cite are examples from my IBD in the US, they may not be representative of the general experience.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

A couple guys on my team at work don't drink and no one has an issue with it. When we go out for happy hour, everyone is fine with them just ordering soda or juice. Remember, the reason you go out after work is to build camaraderie and teamwork. Shouldn't matter what you're drinking.

If someone offers to get you the next round, just tell them, "Thank you, but I don't alcohol. I'll just have some soda/juice/whatever."

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

I've seen people not drink at all levels (from analyst, associate to director/MDs) in both consulting and banking. It doesn't hurt their progression, etc. Reasons include religious, cultural and father being alcoholic (and abusive). None of them are awkward, anti social people though. Just explain the reason when you decline and act like it's normal.

 

From a former non-drinker, yes, it absolutely can negatively impact your career. It will depend largely on your co-workers and the people you interact with on a daily basis. I think as you progress further along in you career it begins to have less and less of an impact. But in the opening years, absolutely it can harm you in your network.

Since Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine then I can only assume you are Muslim. If you're Muslim and that's why you don't drink then you've already cleared a major hurdle by just getting hired (in all honesty, people with the name "Muhammed" get their resumes set quietly to the side), so you should be able to persevere through this. My recommendation is, if you're already working with interest (usury) then what's the big deal in having a drink? If you don't drink because you're a Christian then you need to re-read your Bible because what your parents taught you is provably wrong theologically.

Array
 

Hey thanks for the response.

I don't want to get into the"oh I'm doing x, so why not get into y" mentality. That's the line that I've drawn.

You've hit many points on the dot and I've had to jump over many hoops to get here. But I'm not too sure if I'm willing to sacrifice principles that I've grown up with. I'm trying to figure out a way I can compromise both.

 

If it's a principle you can't compromise then you're doing the right thing in going out with your co-workers.

One thing that might be nice is if you can talk intelligently about alcohol. For a lot of people, drinking has become almost an art. If you can at least learn some of the basics then you can at least talk intelligently about it (or laugh intelligently about it). To this day I'll never understand it, but people LOVE to talk about drinking (I always found it to be kind of anti-climactic once they finally got around to actually doing it).

Also, make sure to have something in your hand (a soda, water, etc.) to draw attention away from yourself. When you order don't make a big deal about it (i.e. by ordering your Diet Coke loudly). Be subtle, don't draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you don't feel comfortable lying--but if you don't care either way and the question comes up, make something up (people HATE the religious line because they feel like they're being judged by you, even if they aren't being judged). One BS line I was finally able to come up with that served me well was to tell people that I drank myself under the table in college so badly that I just don't drink anymore for reasons of physical health. It would generally get me a pat on the back (the proverbial high-five).

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Since Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine then I can only assume you are Muslim. If you're Muslim and that's why you don't drink then you've already cleared a major hurdle by just getting hired (in all honesty, people with the name "Muhammed" get their resumes set quietly to the side)

Hahahaha...probably true (the second part)
 

I'm glad @"Virginia Tech 4ever" was wiling to tell the truth about the negative impact. This is America where alot of people are not down with Muslims and also don't think there is anything morally wrong with drinking (prob because there isn't). Personally, I don't follow the flying spaghetti monster's teachings, so for me the religion excuse is not valid. I'm with @"Dingdong08" completely on this. It's a couple beers with your colleagues, not meth.

 

Not drinking MAY hold you back. It won't DEFINITELY hold you back.

I think the biggest hurdle is networking earlier in your career. Even if you're cool about going out with co-workers, it's difficult to relate with your younger peers whose social life outside (and inside?) of work, in some instances, revolves around a bar. Frankly, it gets boring hanging out with people at bars if you aren't drinking.

As people get older, drinking and bars consumes less of their lives and it will be easier to relate to your peers.

Array
 

Let me add this, since I think networking is the hardest thing to do in your situation, I would seek out others (Mormons, Muslims, whatever you are…) in the same city and in similar roles in finance to network with. You just need to build up your network and they'll help you out later down the line.

Array
 

There's a reason you've overcome the hurdles to get where you are. I bet you're a really smart guy with a good personality--that fixes a lot of ills.

Like I said, just don't be an obvious jerk about it or come of us judgmental (probably something I wasn't great at when I didn't drink…). If it's a principle you can't compromise on then there's nothing you can do about it other than to show deference to others (which you are obviously doing). The answer is, it depends--it may hold you back if individuals in your peer group take exception to it or find you boring or uninteresting as a result. So network with more people--you seem good at it.

Array
 
Best Response

I have had to deal with this in my career due to past experiences while drinking. I still drink socially but I am very selective about when/where/and the circumstances involved. There are many occasions when I am at mixers or social events focused on work where I will not let myself drink alcohol and I am questioned regarding it. In my opinion, it is even harder to justify not drinking at a certain event when people know you do drink occasionally. It requires self-discipline and confidence in your personal values that many people lack.

Personally I think it is sad that you will be thought of differently for the way you choose to live your life, because it will probably affect how some people view you in the workplace. That being said, I have generally seen that those who respect your choices are probably the ones that will be in influential roles as you move forward. Those who ridicule you and treat you with disrespect probably do not exhibit other characteristics that will help them in their careers.

From a purely professional viewpoint, you will never be hungover, your mind is probably sharper than people of similar intelligence who do drink regularly, and you have 0% chance of legal problems due to drinking such as DUI, disorderly conduct, etc. In addition, you exhibit strong will and adherence to your personal values which is a valuable trait. If you prove yourself through your work, and maintain a healthy social relationship with your coworkers despite your sobriety, you should be fine.

The final note is to make sure you never talk about your sobriety like it makes you better than those who do drink, although based on your awareness of the subject I doubt you are inclined to do so.

We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. - Charles Bukowski
 

Don't mention it, drink something that looks like a drink, learn to nurse a beer, and if it's ever brought up, then be self deprecating and quickly dismiss the subject.

 

just drink something dark like coke and say its a whiskey & coke or something. Not drinking isn't necessarily a detriment, but during my SA this summer I probably went out drinking at least twice a week with analysts and sometimes the whole group, and it's a huge bonding experience. If you dont drink, at least make sure you're making an effort to go to group events.

"My name's Ralph Cox, and I'm from where ever's not gonna get me hit"
 

as others have said, not drinking is fine, but then drinking provides an outlet for social activities that are crucial to get to know / bond with your colleagues so as long as you make sure to go out with the team, you should be fine. During my time in banking, I went out with my follow analysts pretty much every Thursday night (often leaving the office past midnight and going straight to the club) and we developed pretty strong relationships, which really helped when one of us was swamped an needed help / a favour.

 

Eh with the liver thing I'd feel bad but a primal level beneath any conscious choice I would consider you weak. WEAK!

There definitely is a stigma in the US and it sucks. I took a couple weeks off drinking and people were raising lots of eyebrows. My advice would be to just always be holding a drink (club soda FTW), and try to steer conversations away from it. Most people become uncomfortable because, all of a sudden, you are exposing their vice. Not the other way around.

Posters above make a good point about bonding with other guys on the team. The best moments with my coworkers have been 3-sheets to the wind on late nights... dumb, yes, but it's the truth. On the plus side you'll have more energy, get up earlier, have better memory, be healthier/live longer, so hey pros and cons

Fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds of run. - Kipling
 

I don't drink. I'd say if you go around announcing that you don't drink, it will hurt you. In reality, mout people don't care- just don't make a big deal out of it, go to every happy hour, and socialize. Some people WILL care- these people are insecure in themselves, and should be avoided.

Tl;dr- not if you don't make it a huge deal.

 
FinanceGuy15:

I don't drink. I'd say if you go around announcing that you don't drink, it will hurt you. In reality, mout people don't care- just don't make a big deal out of it, go to every happy hour, and socialize. Some people WILL care- these people are insecure in themselves, and should be avoided.

Tl;dr- not if you don't make it a huge deal.

I think you are wrong that the people who care are insecure. I would probably have a problem with somebody who doesn't drink going out with me and my fellow co-workers to drink. The reason being that when I go out with friends / co-workers, the main reason we are there is to get drunk. If you are there and you are not getting drunk, there is a certain level of loosened morals and drunk conversations that you are a part of that you have no business being in if you are not at least a few beers deep. Not judging those who don't drink, but just don't be pretending to drink while everybody else is at the bar taking shots and assume the role of corporate watchdog and whistleblower for any fun activity that may soon after occur.

 

I think you should drink. i was a non-drinker for a long time then I changed. Life can be extremely dangerous if you are sober and serious all the time trust me. You tend to overthink things and approach everything from a rigid pov which is not good. Sometimes you have to get loose . Control is what matters.

D.I.
 

OP here. Alright so I'm gonna modify this a bit. I will not get drunk, but I'm willing to have a few. But I'm new to alcohol. Teach me, oh wise ones. Where should I start? Rum and coke? Or is that not tough enough?

 

Best not to make it an issue during the job seeking process. Once in a position it wont hurt you. It will hurt you if you're the odd ball who never goes out and doesn't socialize or makes others who do drink feel uncomfortable about it and you're not drinking becomes a "thing" that you feel compelled to justify or rationalize. This should all be obvious so the fact that you are posting here isn't a good sign that you understand. But good luck to you,

 

I don't think this is such a big deal. If you go to social events and have a drink in your hand (Coke, Sprite etc) no one will say anything. If they want you to take shots or something be outgoing and social about it, encourage them to partake, but don't drink anything. In any case, after everyone else is drunk they won't care about you.

 

Also, I look forward to the day where having a toke is an alternative to drinking for New York IB inmates. The optimist in me says 3-4 years.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
arrhythmiatic:

To the question in your title: not really
To the question in your actual thread: kind of

Do yourself a favor and find another line of work. You can thank me later.

The thing is I really like trading and think that I would be a great at my job. I want to work late and show up on Saturdays and Sundays to study the markets and generate ideas.

 
arrhythmiatic:

Yeah...that enthusiasm will wear off real quick. Try Asset Management or some other kind of investing role. Get into Jane Street, DE Shaw or Citadel if you have the chops for that.

I'm actually very interested in energy trading. I'm considering doing Tulane's Master in Energy Management. Let me be clear, I'm not particularly interested in the sales side of trading and wooing clients. I want my focus to be on buying low and selling high.

 
mastertrader89:

I'm a very clean cut person and I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs, nor do I like to be around that stuff. I don't mind being around people having a beer or a glass of wine, but it's not something that I do and I don't like to be around someone who's drunk. All throughout college there was peer pressure to drink, but I never really enjoyed it. Are the traders on the street expected to part-take in alcohol-related events and are they looked down upon if they pass on them?

Nobody wants to be around you either, you boring bitch.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
wikileaks:

Is this a serious Q? If you need to drink to feel socially accepted by your peers at work, that's just sad, and shows you have little Emotional Intelligence.

Given by some of the responses on here I clearly wouldn't be accepted by some. I hope this is the minority. I would like to get along with my group. I'm a very tolerant person and get along with everybody who isn't a douche to me. Most people who look down on me do it because I don't go out. People who actually take the time to get to know me tend to like me. If people went to a bar after work I would probably go and drink water, maybe buy the group an appetizer. You just wouldn't see me take the party to a club later that night.

 

LOL, funny responses.

I can relate somewhat - not the not drinking part - I love drinking and getting hammered. But sometimes I'd just rather hang out with my own friends on my own off time instead of networking/schmoozing with industry guys. The best advice I can give you is to suck it up and have a couple drinks, it won't kill you.

Or maybe stick to an analyst type role? Trading is not just about being good at your job, a large component of it is building relationships and your network of information and contacts. That requires getting boozed up every now and then. An analyst can pretty much stick to his day job without the extracurricular activities and skate by.

 

Sad how people look down on those who don't drink or won't accept them. And it's so sad how people think you need to drink in order to establish relationships and network. Give me a break. Is this really what the finance industry has come down to? Or are people just fucking disrespectful in general. I'm going to go with the latter.

Get a fucking life and stop trying to push your need to drink in order to be social or have fun down other people's throats.

 

It's because drinking with other drunks is fun while drinking with a bunch of sober people is boring as hell. I've been on both sides so I know how OP feels. People like to have something in common with the people they hang out with, even if they both just have a common hobby of getting shitfaced drunk. It's weird, it sucks at times, but it's just life and completely abstaining from alcohol will undoubtedly hurt you in the finance world.

 

"I don't trust people without vice, because they don't trust themselves." - Anihilist, c.2014

SB for whoever knows the actual quote (I've actually forgotten)

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 
Anihilist:

"I don't trust people without vice, because they don't trust themselves."
- Anihilist, c.2014

That's a great quote and sentiment.

On a somewhat related note, I don't at all trust people who are overly nice...they're most likely dishonest, manipulative, and trying to get something from you.

OP, my short answer to your question is 'they are indeed probably looked down upon'...my long answer though would involve mentioning that it's not so much the fact that you do or do not drink that is the issue, but rather that you appear very judgmental and potentially not very social.

 

Hah, I love that you got poo for this.

It's totally fine. I was at a networking thing last week and the two people I was with only drank soda. So, I drank soda. Realistically, no one really cares as long as you're good company.

Get busy living
 

if you don't judge your coworkers for drinking, then why would anyone care? i always just want to round up troops to go to the bar with me so I can drink. that's my personal agenda, i don't give a shit what they do at the bar as long as i'm getting my drinks (though it's preferable to have at least one other person also participating in getting drunk with me).

 

You sound like you have some insecurities that need to be dealt with before you move into any job. I think this is about something larger than just drinking/not drinking. You seem to be overly concerned with what other people think of you, ignore what those who drink think of you and don't judge people who do drink because you'd be guilty of the same offense.

 
CMDTY:

You sound like you have some insecurities that need to be dealt with before you move into any job. I think this is about something larger than just drinking/not drinking. You seem to be overly concerned with what other people think of you, ignore what those who drink think of you and don't judge people who do drink because you'd be guilty of the same offense.

You're wrong about why I don't judge people, but probably right that I'm a little insecure. As for judging people, I truly just don't care, we all like/dislike different things in life. I'm sure that there's plenty of stuff that I enjoy that lots of other people don't. You like what you like. If you like to do lines of coke off of a stripper's ass have at it. Not something I'm interested in trying. I judge people based on how they treat me. I can have a lot in common with someone, but if they are a dick I'm probably not going to want to talk to them very much. Conversely, there's people who I have very little in common with that I enjoy talking to, because they're not an asshole. I'm insecure, because I don't want my career to be messed up by other people. I want to be judged and get more and more opportunities by my job performance. I'm not afraid that I'm not going to be best friends with people at work. I'm afraid that'll I'll do a great job and not get rewarded with opportunities. Obviously I wouldn't want the whole office shunning me for not drinking either, so I do care a little about what people think, but the situation where everyone is acting like Flake and bschoolhopeful seems a little extreme.

 
whatwhatwhat:

there are people who don't drink that are fun to be around when i'm drinking
and there are people who are no fun
you sound like you would fall in the second bucket

That's fair. I'm really not that exciting. I'm sure I'd find commonalities with people though. I know that lots of people in finance ski, golf, play/watch sports, etc.

 

I skimmed this thread, but it comes down to this - sell-side trading is a lot about building and maintaining relationships. You come across as someone who wouldn't be very good at it. Not just because you don't drink, but because of how you present and describe yourself. As others have said, I'd look at other lines - Asset Management, investment banking, etc. The trading floor probably isn't the best environment for a guy like you.

 

I hate drinking around people who aren't doing the same. I find it very condescending. That said, I physically couldn't care less whether or not my co-workers drink. I just wouldn't really want those that don't to come out drinking. Not to state the obvious here, but just pick an area of finance where drinking has no relevance to the job itself (ie most of them)?

 

You may want to look into quant roles. Many of my ex-coworkers at a quant fund didn't drink or did so very little (glass of wine at dinner). They were all personable, sharp guys, but didn't go out with sellside much at all even though big firms kept offering due to the high volumes they generated.

 

Just read this post and I'm not sure I understand the thinking. Wouldn't someone who doesn't drink/use drugs be looked on more favorably at least by higher levels managers? They'd be at least in theory far less of a liability as they have no risk of substance abuse, DUI, etc. Just curious why it seems people think drinking is an important factor? As some background I do drink myself although not as heavily as it seems others do.

 

Dude, just say you're not drinking for health reasons - excessive drinking is an easy way to get really fat, especially if you're working in IB. If you look like you're into health and fitness you can definitely get away with this. You could even get away with it if you're obese because you could be cutting it out to help get in shape.

 

I drink significantly more and have been more successful than most people, so I feel highly qualified to comment.

I had one coworker who I was close with who did not drink. He was Muslim. He went out with us when we went boozing and never judged and was a fun guy, even when we were hammered and he was sober. If you're thinking you can pull this off, you probably can't. I don't think the lack of drinking held him back. That being said, he was one of the very few empolyees at Lehman who was fired FOR CAUSE during my entire tenure of about four decades at the firm. I'm not saying it was connected, because I don't think it was, but that is about 100% for fired for cause cases of known non-drinkers vs. the nearly 0% for drinkers.

Of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there have certainly been a number of problem drinkers who got pushed out (never FOR CAUSE that I am aware of) largely because of their drinking problems.

For the most part, I agree with @"Dingdong08", even though I wish I was better than that. I'm not and neither are most others you will work with. Alcohol is how people really bond 98% of the time.

 

Yah, just don't drink. At a BB you'll have enough people from all walks of life.

Personally, I drink and my group drinks. Does it hamper networking? Maybe, but there are ways around it.

Just whatever you do don't be judgemental or whatever. That's what will fuck you.

 

I have several mormon friends in finance, and their success in building a network while not drinking has depended completely on how they handled the situation. For example, I know one guy who summered at Morgan Stanley and he was a little pushy about the fact that he didn't drink, and also never really went with the group to the bar or club. End of the summer came and no offer was in sight. No good references either.

All my other mormon friends in finance just rolled with the group when they went out, holding a coke or club soda in their hand, and according to them there was never any noticeable hindrance in their career progression. So ya, it's all about how you handle it. Don't be a dick, be cool.

 

How many wrong advices in this thread...

If you don't drink good for you. No one cares, it's your life. If people go out, do go out with them, just don't drink. No one cares, as long as you are social. When the bills are split be ready to pay a bit more than you would otherwise not drinking any alcohol - that is the only drawback. I know plenty of people who do not drink, but still go out with clients - all I can do is envy them as they are having a healthier lifestyle. Just be normal and socialise with people drinking, that's all that's being asked of you. Order rounds and pay for them.

The only thing that matters is for you to do your job well and not mess it up, you'll have an easier time sober so all the better for you.

 

this goes against all tenets of broscience but I think @"Disjoint" made the best point: if you're social and just don't booze it up, that should be fine.

and @"SSits" that will be a great day, and it will be the day I diversify into a pizza franchise.

@"Dingdong08" I feel this way too, like if they don't have a good reason for not drinking I'm skeptical. maybe that's wrong, but whatever.

 

OP I don't drink either, and judging from my personal experience (limited, I know), some people here are way off base. Every time I would tell my coworkers I don't drink they would tell me they respected that and then forgot about it. Remember that most people on this site are high school and college kids who are out getting hammered every day, so there is a little bias. Add to the fact that they are internet warriors; most of these people would not say this to your face.

As for religion, why doesn't anyone say anything about Sikhs who were turbans or Jews who wear a Yamakah? I know a few Jews who go to work like that and everything is ok. But when a Muslim (and to a lesser extent Mormon, they don't have it all that good either) decides to follow his religion, then you get comments and pressure about not following your faith.

@"Virginia Tech 4ever" and @"hakuna.matata" have great replies. Not everyone wants liver disease from alcohol. The same question that our parents asked us when we were kids applies, "If everyone else jumped off a cliff would you?"

To answer your question, it will only affect your career if you let it.

 

I'm surprised no one has commented on this yet but going out with other analysts or "being a bro" and showing people you know how to party is not that important. It really depends on the kind of group / culture of your shop. There are plenty of folks who are nontraditional and are married, in long term relationships, etc that do not go out with their co workers and would rather spend that time with their significant other. Unless you have this boiler room culture where everyone from the analyst to the MD go out and regularly get hammered together, it's not going to be a big deal. No one gives a damn if you don't go and be a bro with the other analysts as long as you are someone people get along with and feel comfortable around and that you are obviously doing good work.

My advice is dont draw to the fact that you don't drink. If someone asks tell them why in an intelligent matter without seeming as it bothers you and let that be the end of it. Focus on being a good person / well liked your group, get along with your team, and do good work and you'll be fine.

 

For most people, the only way they can be comfortable socially is to be drinking. Period. It's an easy and quick way to begin bonding and generally it is incredibly biased against those who don't drink. The trick here is to not be weird.

Something I discovered during a relatively brief stint of not drinking and going out is that if you truly enjoy going out to packed bars/clubs and being stone cold sober... bless you. You may be a saint in disguise. If you are in a more laid back type of lounge environment that doesn't really apply. I've discovered that people generally don't really care as long as you aren't: A. Holier than thou B. Awkward C. Dramatic about it. If you don't do any of those, and judging from your comments so far I'm going to say you don't, it shouldn't be an issue.

I think the most important thing is that you are 100% comfortable with your decision. If you are, it won't matter at all. If you aren't I think it will absolutely hold you back because you will end up giving off the wrong impression to people which I already covered earlier. It is only an issue if you allow it to be one, frankly.

 

I don't drink OP and I've been out with coworkers all the time, and I work with a lot of heavy drinkers and its no big deal at all. I just grab a water or cranberry juice or redbull and enjoy the night. I used to drink so I don't have a holier than thou attitude, and I like hanging out with everyone when they get all hyped up. I don't drink because I found out I cant stop when I start drinking so I just don't start. I also get to help other people stop when it becomes a problem. Best thing that could have happened to me honestly. Although to my drinking friends, more power to you, enjoy that one for me.

 

Personally I don't like people who don't drink at all. I have a friend who has "legitimate" personal non-religious reasons for not drinking but even he will have one beer in a social occasion.

Drinking is a way to socialize and bond with people by letting your guard down a little and be more vulnerable. If you aren't willing to do that might be best to work in a role where you're essentially working in a dark closet.

 
Going Concern:

Drinking is a way to socialize and bond with people by letting your guard down a little and be more vulnerable.

Drinking is not the only way to to do these things. I was in the same situation as @"Licked" when I first moved to NYC and didn't drink for two years. My sobriety when I went out with colleagues in no way hampered my career; I still received promotions/raises/was very well liked at my firm - and I'm of the ethnicity of one of those scaaaary terrorist producing countries.

Key takeway is like some other folks have mentioned: don't have a 'holier than thou' attitude and literally nobody will care.

Own the fact that you don't drink it and people will respect you for it.

 
the_stig:
Going Concern:

Drinking is a way to socialize and bond with people by letting your guard down a little and be more vulnerable.

Drinking is not the only way to to do these things. I was in the same situation as @Licked when I first moved to NYC and didn't drink for two years. My sobriety when I went out with colleagues in no way hampered my career; I still received promotions/raises/was very well liked at my firm - and I'm of the ethnicity of one of those scaaaary terrorist producing countries.

Key takeway is like some other folks have mentioned: don't have a 'holier than thou' attitude and literally nobody will care.

Own the fact that you don't drink it and people will respect you for it.

I never said that it will necessarily hamper your career and I never said that you won't get some respect if you own up to your decisions for this or anything else. What I said was that if you don't drink at all then I won't like you. Of course being liked isn't necessarily a prerequisite for being respected, though it will certainly help on the promotion front unless you are an absolute rockstar at what you do which most people are not.

 

The thing with not drinking is that in SOME cases it will be difficult for some people to trust you if you don't drink with them.

That does NOT mean it will harm your career somehow.

Do NOT make a huge problem out of it and it won't be a problem. Concentrate on things that are more important and you'll be fine.

 

The issue is not drinking and also no sucking. Regretfully, those two things go hand in hand. Just hang out with people similar to you and deal with the fact that when you go outside the norm some people might give you shit. I'd never break an alcoholic guys balls for not boozing, but zero alcohol is going to cause some issues. A lot? No, but some. Forget the getting wasted with the bros cause that's not happening. Having wine at dinner scotch and cigar, etc.

I'd find other like minded people and network with them. They will understand your reasons and probably go to bar for you way more than anyone else.

Personally, I can't believe anyone can read the posts on this site and think working in finance is cool or like wall Street. Between the juvenile dating posts, the posts on women sleeping with more than 2 guys, the stupid drug test posts, the prestige posts, my mind is about to fucking explode.

Jesus guys, can we all collectively sack up a little?

 

Well my half joking comment got some people's panties all twisted up.

Not socially drinking will have an impact on your career, not career ending by any means and you can definitely not drink and still do well (Mitt's a good example, but he's a freaking gosh-golly-gee Boy Scout: my friend was his deputy press secretary when he was governor, I met the guy multiple times back then and she told us all sorts of stories about him), it will just be more difficult. And I'm not talking about bonding with your fellow analysts, or even your MD, over shots and beer pong, because it's not about going out and getting college shitfaced, although that will inevitably happen and it makes for good stories. I do so much business over drinks with people in the industry and outside of it. When we're acquiring a company, or trying to lever something up, meeting with government regulatory types of people, or really anyone, it's good to get them out of a conference room and into a more social setting like a bar so that they're more relaxed and to get to know you better. The same can be said of golf or squash; however, both tend to lead to a drink afterwards anyway.

And again, I'm not talking about going to a raucous and loud club, I'm talking about places like private clubs or hotel bars. It allows the person on the other side of the table to relax and talk more freely. If there are two, three or four of you out having a drink it'll just be awkward if you don't order an alcoholic drink. Like it or don't like it, it doesn't matter, because it's just how it is. This may be a foreign concept to someone in college or fresh out of it, but drinking doesn't necessarily mean getting hammered. It's the social lubricant of western society and business (it's even more for far eastern culture). I don't advocate going out and getting drunk and just because you drink doesn't mean you're an alcoholic or unhealthy.

A good friend/business contact of mine is a recovering alcoholic and he obviously doesn't drink. It's not a problem but he readily acknowledges that it does hamper his work because he's not going to hang out for hours over drinks and he misses out on some of the relationship building that happens out of the office.

Good luck, but the reality is that people drink and it's a very useful arrow to have in your quiver because, like I said like it or not, it's a big part of business, especially when you work in a people/deal related business where the overwhelming majority of people will have a drink.

 

As long as you are a personable guy, and people like being around you then you should be ok going out and not drinking. Like mentioned in a previous comment, order a soda water with lime or something along those lines and don't make a big deal out of it. Anyone who makes it a point to make a big deal that you don't drink is likely a douchebag anyways and will be percieved as one while acting in such a way. The only person I've worked with who didn't drink and has gotten alienated for it is a guy who makes a point to talk about "needing a drink after this long day" and other drinking comments, when he doesn't drink also due to religion. Its obnoxious to listen to someone reference needing alcohol who doesn't partake. Be a bro and you will be fine hanging out without drinking, maybe even get some respect for sticking to your beliefs amongst peers.

 

Are you social, outgoing and can you hold a conversation without alcohol? If so, it shouldn't be an issue with junior bankers. Personally, I couldn't care less whether someone in my group drinks or not so long as they are fun/interesting/not a total drag to be around. Make an effort to go to happy hours, events, parties, etc. as the group bonding is very important, more so than whatever is in your cup. Pro tip for these events, order a soda water, rocks with a lime in a short glass and you won't look a shred out of place.

Down the line, you may run into an awkward situation if you're with senior bankers and they ask if you'd like to have a post-dinner drink (seems to be very typical after a management presentation dinner or client/prospective client dinner). At that point, there's nothing to do but respectfully decline. I have no idea how a senior banker would view you for this though, likely depends on the individual but a potential out is saying something like "I've got to get some work done tonight so I'll just stick to a non-alcoholic drink".

 
ad Gladium:
milehigh:

"I've got to get some work done tonight so I'll just stick to a non-alcoholic drink".

I think I'll use this when I run into the situation requested by senior bankers/clients. Thanks man.

Avoid saying "non-alcoholic". if it's a soda, hold it up and say the part about work and then say "caffeine's my poison" or "soda is my poison" ...something like that, if it's a juice, "I've got some more work to do, so....a thousand grams of sugar should keep me up" or something....humor is the best...more senior people find these corny jokes about health funny.

By admitting to a "poison" or addiction, you are finding like ground with them, because they are asking you to partake in their "poison". You don't want to be on some high horse...so admitting a vulnerability, whether its material or not, shows that you have some things in common. People like other people who have some things in common w them.

 

Glad your singular experience is the rule and not the exception. My boss literally tosses out any Middle Eastern names that come onto his desk. I'm not saying I agree with it--just stating that that's the reality for a lot of people. I was trying to compliment the OP on overcoming that adversity; instead, people put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and throw monkey shit at me.

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Glad your singular experience is the rule and not the exception. My boss literally tosses out any Middle Eastern names that come onto his desk. I'm not saying I agree with it--just stating that that's the reality for a lot of people. I was trying to compliment the OP on overcoming that adversity; instead, people put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and throw monkey shit at me.

Where do you work again? If I recall correctly from few years ago, it's some small RE/Construction company. Did our summer associate close list recently and we took some middle eastern guy who doesn't drink and in the same time dropped one who drinks and very social. No one said drop them both cause they are both middle eastern or keep the drinking one - you look beyond that. And my associate class also had bunch of muslims. Some drank, some didn't. Religion or these kind of factors don't come into play in a typical BB recruiting or advancement process.

And if you are stressed out about your MS count, I'm not throwing that. Don't really use that function.

 

It sucks to suck, doesn't it?

No, not drinking won't hurt your career advancement. Are you social or are you not? That's what depends. I've had a number of nights where great memories were made, without alcohol. In fact, the drunks couldn't believe I wasn't drunk - it's called being a great actor/having a great personality.

Plus, if you're simply concerned about holding unto a glass of something colorful while schmoozing around with colleagues/clients, there are a bunch of great non-alcoholic cocktails you can order out there. Comes with the fancy glass too.

 

To add something else, I've had a boatload of bigotry against me. I don't drink, I'm Muslim, non-target, and have a name that leave many Westerners with a bad taste in their mouth. I've had some MD's and finance professionals tell me to change my name in plain words. @"abacab" Even though we live in America, bigotry is yet alive, and I have witnessed it firsthand.

But please, let's not make this thread about that.

 
ad Gladium:

To add something else, I've had a boatload of bigotry against me. I don't drink, I'm Muslim, non-target, and have a name that leave many Westerners with a bad taste in their mouth. I've had some MD's and finance professionals tell me to change my name in plain words. @abacab Even though we live in America, bigotry is yet alive, and I have witnessed it firsthand.

But please, let's not make this thread about that.

As long as Sharia Law exists, I'm gonna go ahead and continue discriminating against Muslims. Your views are disgusting and detrimental to humanity.
heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

You'll be fine if you don't skip the networking events and have a good time when with co workers. Tips:

  1. Go to all the happy hours and events. Always have a drink in your hand, this will decrease the amount of times someone will say "let me get you a drink", so you can avoid the spiel over and over again.

  2. Explain your reason quickly, confidently, and SWITCH topics. Use humor. "I just don't drink, I never liked the feeling...plus I'm already enough of a jackass!". or "I already can't get my dick hard!"

  3. Tell dirty jokes or take a few more risks at the happy hours and events...this is part of fitting in.

  4. Learn some things about beer or wine...aroma is a big part of the experience, learn the smell of a hoppy beer or a sweet wine. Don't ask to smell other people's drinks though. hah

  5. Loosen up at these events. Basically act a little drunk, not pretend you're drunk, but lighten the fuck up and talk to the other people as friends.

  6. Pitch in for the bill as if you had bought just as much alcohol as the rest (sucks, but just do it and don't take no for an answer).

  7. Maybe drink a non alcoholic beer if the bar serves it? Telling people you don't drink but like the taste of beer might seem cool....?

 

I wouldn't think it would be terribly bad for you. I think the whole aspect of "getting a drink" is more of just the act of being there and with everyone. Granted, the thing in the drink is important to a lot of people (myself included) but I think that if you make an effort to be out with them then you're golden.

 

A trick I use for pacing myself, you may want to do, is just "drink" diet coke/vodka etc. Gin & Tonics also work for this.

If there's people you trust in the group, let them in on it will make your life easier, but just swap out the alcohol (its clear) for nothing, and you can drink your alcohol with the team. Your trusted pals (and you) know what you're actually ordering, and whenever its someone elses round, pass. They wont mind not buying you a drink.

T

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/finance/going-concern>Going Concern</a></span>:

Guys wtf is this shit. Health jokes? Soda poison? What's happening to this forum

Been that way for a while man. It's shocking TBH.

 

Just lie and tell people you're an alcoholic. People respect that excuse. Blaming it on some absurd teaching from the flying camel monster in the sky will get you nowhere fast.

Alot of people on this board hate to hear the truth and will MS you if you state it. This board is skewed toward kids that are minorities and many of which do not drink, keep that in mind when you read all this comforting advice.

 

Can I ask a question? Suppose we all said not drinking would ruin your career. Would you start drinking? Probably not. So why ask? It might and it might not have career impacts.

That's the issue with all the question I see. Drug tests, chick's who have sex, etc. Like why ask if you aren't going to take the advice.

I get fucked up. I hang with people who get fucked up. I'd suggest being social, but ultimately find people who understand your life choices. Cause I'll tell you what, if you have a moral problem with drinking your probably going to have a moral problem when people start crushing ass and getting debaucherous.

Just saying.

 

@"TNA" Hey man, my original questions were simply to see how this is viewed on the street and whether or not it would affect my career AND to see what were the possible ways around it.

But to your questions, would I drink if everyone told me to do so? Probably not. Why ask? Many have shown through responses that it doesn’t mean everything and that you don’t have to drink. Hearing from the community that it is okay not to drink given that I show conviction and yet have the ability to socialize, gives me a sense of relief.

 

I ran into this dilemma myself earlier. I used to not drink not because of religious reasons but just control reasons. Never wanting to lose control of myself in any situation. I got over that irrational fear and now I drink casually in work situations.

I believe both sides are correct in this thread. In some environments not drinking will have an effect on your ability to make bonds in the workplace. Even if everyone is ok with your stance it still is the elephant in the room. Plus people who are drinking are going to stay out longer and by default just create more a bond.

On the other hand, I have seen a gentleman who is very similar to you and does not drink for the same reasons. Although it was probably awkward for him during our first work party he was able to make up for it by having a bond on another front. He used his passion for golf to regain bonds in the workplace and went golfing with several coworkers.

IMO the effect can be minimized by finding a way to connect on another front if it is not going to be drinking.

 

I ran into this dilemma myself earlier. I used to not drink not because of religious reasons but just control reasons. Never wanting to lose control of myself in any situation. I got over that irrational fear and now I drink casually in work situations.

I believe both sides are correct in this thread. In some environments not drinking will have an effect on your ability to make bonds in the workplace. Even if everyone is ok with your stance it still is the elephant in the room. Plus people who are drinking are going to stay out longer and by default just create more a bond.

On the other hand, I have seen a gentleman who is very similar to you and does not drink for the same reasons. Although it was probably awkward for him during our first work party he was able to make up for it by having a bond on another front. He used his passion for golf to regain bonds in the workplace and went golfing with several coworkers.

IMO the effect can be minimized by finding a way to connect on another front if it is not going to be drinking.

 

I can see how not drinking affects you socially and even making a bit harder to network, but still I think in business your worry should be what you bring to the table. You don't drink? Ok, well then whats makes you more valuable then the next guy? If you don't bring any value to your team, well when they start downsizing you will be the one worrying the most. Just my two cents, seeing as I don't drink as well.

 

Not drinking will help your career, not hurt it. Drinking will harm your performance in life more then you will benefit from "networking" at bars. If you have to go to en event at which others are drinking just order a soft drink. If someone asks you why just tell the truth, whatever that is. I am not trying to play amateur psychologist, but if anything is going to hold you back it is the insecurity that leads you to be so frightened about being different from the herd...it certainly isnt going to be the few people who are so stupid as to hold your lack of drinking against you because those people arent likely to be successful anyway. And this is coming from someone who drinks alot...drinking has done alot of things for me, some good and some bad, but it certainly hasnt helped my career and anybody who says it has is probably kidding themselves.

OK maybe if you are in sales i may have to amend this a bit...

 

been covered a million times in the thread but not drinking is not the problem as much as not socializing because you don't drink. many people who don't drink just don't end up going out with their coworkers at all and that will definitely affect your progression. make sure you go out, do not draw attention to the fact that you don't drink, and you'll be fine. all of these painful jokes and stunts that people are suggesting are so fucking dumb, just be yourself. honestly the only kind of spot where not drinking will seriously affect you probably would not have hired you in the first place so you should be okay.

 

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