So I've been giving a lot of thought to and have been stressing out about on campus recruiting, and I have come to a conclusion. Most people at my target school all associate success with getting into banking, trading, pe, marketing, etc, but I've really been asking myself why? I'm beginning to think that I would be honestly very happy working within industry with the potential to work my way up to a higher position.
I've visited the offices for Goldman and McKinsey and have seen the culture. Up or out policy really intimidates me. Sure you get a high salary, but there is so little job security currently, and you're up against some of the best and brightest. I honestly would be content working for 50/60 K out of undergrad and working my way up. I really wouldn't get any extra utility out of working at Goldman. In my opinion, my friends at goldman work there as a means to an end, sign of accomplishment, and money. I honestly can't even think of what I would spend a 160K paycheck on, I can't even fathom that kind of money, as I come from a low class family.
So my question to you all is, why go into Ibanking? Why not take a job in industry where you can shine the brightest, be a superstar in the eyes of your superiors, and obtain a management position in a couple years and have plenty of job security. I see my friends at state schools dreaming to work at a finaincial firm of any kind, not shooting for only goldman and McKinsey.
I understand this is a wall street site, and this is NOT a troll post, I am genuinely curious and have done searches. But most posts I see are "How can i get into banking" and that is not my question. And I know many of you are only in it for the money and prestige, but all of that aside, what's the point?
pardon the long post, thanks for the replies.
Oh and I didn't even mention the lifestyle. That's a huge deciding factor as well.
I agree to an extent. A lot of CEO's like Dimon, who turned down offers from Goldman, Morgan, etc. upon graduation from HBS, choose not to follow the standard path. If he started out as an analyst at JPMorgan and worked his way up instead of coming over from Bank One, would he have attained his current position? It definitely would've been less likely.
I think if you're wondering these things you're probably not a strong candidate for banking. While the money and prestige are undoubtedly a part of why people are in banking, it is by no means the only reason. If that's why you go into it, you're going to find yourself burned out fairly quickly or you're going to suck it up and hate your job. Either way, you will probably be doing a less impressive job then going somewhere where you're truly interested in what you're doing.
Reasons why you should go into I-banking: 1) Enjoy finance 2) Enjoy deal-making 3) Enjoy being around the types of people you find in I-banking 4) Enjoy sales
Someone in the business can probably give you a better idea about why you'd like banking. If you look through the posts on this board (not just doing a search, but actually go through all the threads) you'll get a better idea of I-banking in general. Make sure you pay close attention to what people with gold stars are saying. There are a number of threads that touch on this topic, if not directly answer your questions. Get used to doing research, it's a pretty big part of the business.
My dad is a retired banker but growing up I hated that he was always at work. So when I went to college I spent 2 solid years in a major not associated to finance. However, every time I took a required finance course (like econ 101 etc.) I ended up liking it more than my major courses. I ultimately ended up switching my major junior year to one that put me on a finance track. I really believe that you just have to like banking and how the system works. I mean yea knowing a straight paycheck is coming helps but some people genuinely find banking/trading interesting - myself included.
The people who work their tail off to get to a good school then to their dream bank are exactly the same as the folks who work endlessly to get into Juilliard and then make it to to Broadway. Different strokes for different folks. One of the things that separate those who excel from those who do not is true passion for what they are doing. I bet Michael Jordan would not have been the player he was had he not loved the game. When you really like something you just do it.
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This is a question I've tangled with myself. Here are a few reasons why I ended up deciding to go up into banking: 1. The work. You work on multiple projects handling huge deals, and in a sense making a huge difference in the financial world (and the world). Not to mention, there is some risk involved, which makes it more exciting for me. 2. Exit opportunities. After two years and you realize that banking isn't for you, it's a huge resume booster. 3.The people. It's amazing what happens when you place a bunch of smart people together in a room. 4. The money/prestige. Yes, this is part of it.
I confess that I have been largely influenced by my older friends since I have quite a few who are in the finance world. But I also have friends who are consultants and accountants and love their job.
To me, it doesn't matter what you do at the job. As long as you do it well, and you like it, then it's the right job regardless of the prestige/recognition.
If you're worried about working with bright people instead of excited about it then you won't succeed in any role or any company. Working "in industry" isn't necessarily the big fish in the little pond that you think it is. At these F500 companies you'll still have top tier MBA's and people that truly know a ton about the industry in management. It's not like there is a direct track from entry level to C-Suite anymore. Reading management bios for most of the larger companies that my bank deals with confirms this. The people that work into management in any large company are generally bright and it's not like you can "play JV" to be the star. Anywhere where it is perceived as easier to advance there will be overqualified people swooping in. That being said, if you don't want to go into banking then don't. It isn't for everyone and doesn't seem to be for you. I'd think about what your real end goal is though. It seems like you're posting here and looking for validation. You won't find that here.
many kids think the same way... why be avg at gs when I can shine at ford.. well... all the luck to you..... and trust me.. i never knew what to do with a large paycheck either.. but i learned VERY fast
Because I'd rather be Chris Bosh of the Heat than Mo Williams of the Cavs
Let me confirm that it's not that I don't aspire to work alongside brilliant people. I do it every day now. I was just merely trying to confirm what some of my friends have told me about industry, that if you have wharton and HBS on your resume, it won't be difficult to find a mgmt position at a F500 firm, where it's always tough no matter your credentials to excel in banking, the turnover rates are indicative of this.
As for myself, i'll be honest, trading and markets are things that I am very interested in. I believe that if you do what you love, you will never work a day in your life. I think that trading would be a career that I would love and truly enjoy. Making pitch books on the other hand, not so much. I honestly don't even think i'd like the "exit ops" because honestly, the few PE guys I know at BX and boutiques aren't very happy.
My fear, and why I posted this thread is because i am somewhat risk averse when it comes to this job market. Industry is more risk free, where I've heard trading is VERY variable. That really scares me.
if your risk averse trading wont happen buddy
And I thank you for all of your constructive posts. I think that so many kids on this forum are so set on banking that they overlook back office and industry. This forum classifies non IBD as "shit" jobs, but I completely disagree. You may not be on the track to a megafund and "big money" but when you think about how few people actually make megafunds, it's very small.
I think that's because a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of what 'big money' can mean. Of course a BSD at KKR will make big money, but there is nothing wrong with making 6 figs, living somewhere like Pittsburgh or Atlanta. Pretty great work life balance and easily comfortable spending-wise. I would love to be Derek Jeter but you have to be realistic...
Risk averse in terms of jobs, not in terms of investment decisions, obviously.
trading is not investment
kids are suppose to dream... and if everyone dreams of being the next KKR BSD.. then keep on dreaming...
[quote=monty09]
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monty listen to this version it is better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMFwa_iPAgU
I definitely do think that looking up is obviously better than looking down. As long as you're striving to be better and more successful, you'll have a reason to work hard. But realistically, I think that too many people i've seen with pretty nice offers not in IBD are upset that they aren't in IBD when they really should be patting themselves on the back.
CAUSE THEY THINK $$ MAKES THE MAN.....
one thing i'd like to acknowledge is that there is a very heavy correlation vs. causation argument here:
people, on this forum and elsewhere acknowledge McKinsey as a 'CEO Factory' etc and that there are more successful ex GS people at the top of the finance world than there are ex [insert lower MM shop here] people.
Well there is a heavy selection bias associated with this...I'd contend that McKinsey has one of the most selective recruiting methods of firms being discussed here and as a byproduct it's alumni tend to have alot of success. Whether or not working at McKinsey adds signficant value to an individual is up for debate. (I'm sure there is some, I don't know if its significantly more than you'd get at the F500 you'd ultimately like to run)
Kind of long winded sorry. I wanted to point that out so I could say this: feasibly if you are very intelligent/capable the 'invisible hand' of the market will guide you to success, so if you are the absolute best person Pfizer's management training program has ever seen maybe you'll get to be Pfizer's CEO soon, etc etc.
I don't know how much of that idea I buy, but I think it is an interesting one...
You come from a low class family. Well, so do I. Very humble background. I do this because of the hunger bro, the hunger that allows me to keep going and the one chance I have to raise the standards for the next generation of my family.
Yeah, I have to second this. Although it sounds like a no brainer to say that you should do what makes you 'happy', I believe people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds have added personal obligations that supersede their own happiness (the obligations being particularly connected to acquiring wealth).
Frankly, the negative associations ascribed to materialism may be a product of master-slave morality, to borrow the term from Nietzsche. The mythology of greed perpetuates hierarchy.
(Sorry somewhat off topic)
banker -1, you are right, the entire finanical crisis and demise of main street's 401k's was wall street's fault. Definetly not the people who made 35K a year and bought 350K house on an ARM, refinanced, bought a sweet 2004 corvette, and then racked up thousands of debt on their credit cards. And surely the democrats who pushed legislation requiring more leniant lending standards are not to blame. I think the sole cause of this entire financial crisis were the big bad banks, particularly the 22 year old banker eating a hot pocket putting together a DCF at 3 a.m.. Please don't be a complete ass clown and demonize an entire industry (I banking) because one sectore might have gotten carried away. Please take your trolling elsewhere...., that being said, have a nice day.
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