NY Times: Black college graduates have a hard time finding a job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html?…
I don't know how many of you guys have read this article, but I wanted to know what your thoughts are on it.

You guys have done on campus interviews I assume, and in this article, it states that some black people try to remove the "black" clubs from their resume and also they may change their name from Jaaber to J. to remove any signs they are black.

Is there really that discrimination going on? I think the only people who can answer this is the people in the interview room.

 
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Best Response
Boutique Banking:
Is it bad that I would have a hard time taking someone serious with the name Lakisha? Just being honest...

Out of curiosity, what makes Lakisha hard to take serious? Is Lakisha harder to take serious than Scott, Bob, Bill, Dan, Stacey, Mellissa or Deborah? How do you feel about Hunter, Dakota, Cameron, Denver, Ira, Mortimer, Pierre, or Juan?

Is the name the only thing you read on the resume or do things like School , GPA, work exprience , EC's, or course work matter?

You quote Rockefeller in your sig, here's one from Bill Shakespeare: A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

All anybody wants is a fair shot. Just to be recognized for their work, not their name, their color or their religion or anything else that doesn't really matter.

 

I'm black and do quite well compared to my peers. Obviously those charts are biased because black people have had decades of oppression and racism. Black people weren't allowed to read back in the day and a lot of them are still being pushed down by the white man. However, some of us have educated ourselves despite all the barriers and obstacles and we do quite well.

 
nontargetguy:
I'm black and do quite well compared to my peers. Obviously those charts are biased because black people have had decades of oppression and racism. Black people weren't allowed to read back in the day and a lot of them are still being pushed down by the white man. However, some of us have educated ourselves despite all the barriers and obstacles and we do quite well.

Good for you man, total respect. But I think the day is over when black people can still say they have a hard time because of decades of oppression and racism. Sure some people are still racist, but people are racist against Asians, Jews, and Mexicans too. I think the only thing in the way of black people succeeding is some black people's own inferiority complex and thinking that society owes them or something. I mean we even have Obama as president. So black people need to let go of the racism as well.

 
banker88:
I think the only thing in the way of black people succeeding is some black people's own inferiority complex and thinking that society owes them or something. I mean we even have Obama as president. So black people need to let go of the racism as well.

Yeesh I'm white and the ignorance here is, well, uh something to behold. I hope you're not serious.

 

"A more recent study, published this year in The Journal of Labor Economics found white, Asian and Hispanic managers tended to hire more whites and fewer blacks than black managers did."

That's the way I would write it too if I were trying to make the argument the journalist was making. Read a different way, though, that 'recent study' says that black managers hire a disproportionately large number of blacks when compared with Asian, Hispanic, and white managers. Is this even newsworthy?

I would imagine that Asian managers hire a larger percentage of Asians than Hispanic, black, and white managers do. And if the same weren't true of Hispanic or white managers, then I would consider that an interesting finding.

It is unlikely that white, Asian, and Hispanic managers are all racist specifically against black Americans. At least, it is more likely that people tend to like to hire others who are like them. As such, there is a natural selection bias amongst hiring managers for people similar to them.

 

In the first and second round banking interviews I've been apart of, I've seen no more than 3 other black people either interviewing or conducting interviews and I go to a recruited school with a prominant black popluation.

Banking is a historically white male dominated industry and it still shows today - but there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think its on purpose or with malicious intent. Interviewers tend to gravitate towards candidates that remind them of themselves and black candidates are at a distinct disadvantage in that respect. I will admit that there are advantages to being an under represented minority but I still think black people are at a net disadvantage. That's not to say it can't be done, just that its prbly marginally more difficult.

nontargetguy - I've done alright with myself without SEO.

 
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There are a lot of things to consider. At the end of the day, you can only really compare candidates with similar GPA's, schools, and experiences. The test mentioned above with identical resumes and different names is disturbing. However, top schools in this country have more white students than black. This is one of the big factors in the disparity as well. Additionally, the GPA breakdown by race explains another piece. http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_higher_education/v078/78.2fisch… I don't think that race enters into the decision at a conscious level anymore but I may just be naive.

 

If anyone is interested in reading more about this topic - this is a very good Economic study done and the one that whateverittakes is most likely speaking on http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.p…

I will say this, I think that there is a significant disadvantage for African-Americans, its not even debatable. Some of it is because of the cultural upbringing and the other is a country wide problem.

I will also add though that interestingly enough, immigrant blacks (usually Nigerian) end up not having this same problem to this extent. If you look at the prominent blacks in banking, healthcare, technology, PE, engineering most of them are of Nigerian descent. Even look around at the blacks in schools around you, a significant number will be immigrants or second generation. At my BB this summer about 75% of the blacks I met were African 1st generation or 2nd generation and most were Nigerian. It's an unusual economic situation in that it really is a plight of blacks born, raised and cultured in the US. It doesn't help that parents in that community aren't educated enough to stop naming their kids things like Lakisha, Shanique and Jermaine. All in all, it is most definitely an issue that will have to be worked around, we cannot continue having a growing and significant part of our population, under-performing. We all lose out, and we can't have them perform, until schools are changed and opportunities open. But that can only be done with parents beginning to take ownership of their kids and turning off the Lil' Wayne.

 
KB24TD21:
If anyone is interested in reading more about this topic - this is a very good Economic study done and the one that whateverittakes is most likely speaking on http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.p…

I will say this, I think that there is a significant disadvantage for African-Americans, its not even debatable. Some of it is because of the cultural upbringing and the other is a country wide problem.

I will also add though that interestingly enough, immigrant blacks (usually Nigerian) end up not having this same problem to this extent. If you look at the prominent blacks in banking, healthcare, technology, PE, engineering most of them are of Nigerian descent. Even look around at the blacks in schools around you, a significant number will be immigrants or second generation. At my BB this summer about 75% of the blacks I met were African 1st generation or 2nd generation and most were Nigerian. It's an unusual economic situation in that it really is a plight of blacks born, raised and cultured in the US. It doesn't help that parents in that community aren't educated enough to stop naming their kids things like Lakisha, Shanique and Jermaine. All in all, it is most definitely an issue that will have to be worked around, we cannot continue having a growing and significant part of our population, under-performing. We all lose out, and we can't have them perform, until schools are changed and opportunities open. But that can only be done with parents beginning to take ownership of their kids and turning off the Lil' Wayne.

I am neither white nor black but I found this article interesting...guess the what industry has the highest difference in call back between black and white.....u guess it Finance 5.79% difference

 
KB24TD21:
It doesn't help that parents in that community aren't educated enough to stop naming their kids things like Lakisha, Shanique and Jermaine.

I may not be one of them, but there are people who would take extreme offense to your insinuation that the reason some children are given these names is lack of "intelligence" on the part of the parent(s).

Is it a good idea to name your kid "Lakisha" if you'd like them to have a chance at succeeding in finance (or almost any other field) some day? No, probably not. That said, I think it's on us as a country to look beyond the name, and not on parents to pick names they don't really like just to satisfy the likes of Pierce the VP or Preston the partner (equally dopey names, in my mind).

EDIT: Sorry - guess I missed your later post. But I'm leaving my post as-is to make my point.

 

I think that something worth keeping in mind is that the article doesn't really mention issues at places like BB firms. Those are all very large and have dedicated minority recruiting efforts. That's not to say they don't have their issues, as they certainly do, but they have taken significant steps toward greater diversity in a fairly broad sense. It seems that more issues come up with smaller firms.

I'm black (African American, family comes from Alabama) and while I dont think I've noticed much of a race issue in interviews, I'd have to believe that it has affected me to some degree in applying to more quantitatively focused jobs. I've had more than a few interviews at smaller places were I was the only black person interviewing and, as far as I could see, the only black person working at the company. I know that I have interviewed with at least one place that actually doesn't have any black or latino employees in revenue generating roles, and possibly in the whole company. But if after an interview at a quant type place it's close between me and an asian or white applicant, I'll have believe that in the back of the interviewer(s) mind(s) something might make them think the other person is stronger quantitatively than I am. I have no way of knowing if something like this has actually had a material effect on me, but given how few African Americans study quantitative topics at top schools, these firms are going to have very little experience with people like me, so I can understand where their (potential) skepticism in ability.

Note that this is really just meant for food for thought rather than discussing actual recruiting results.

Of course if you go to a terrible school like Morehouse, you won't find a job. There was an article in the NYT about people from Wharton not being able to find jobs in banking and having to pursue other ventures. We're in a fricking recession, of course it's going to be hard. I can almost guarantee the guy with the U Chicago MBA in the article performed poorly in the program. It's not enough to just graduate from a top program, you need to do well. Minorities have it easy when it comes to getting in. The guy in the article could have had a 600 GMAT, and 3.0 GPA undergrad for all we know. Simply getting in doesn't mean anything you have to excel.

 
FutureBanker09:
Of course if you go to a terrible school like Morehouse, you won't find a job. There was an article in the NYT about people from Wharton not being able to find jobs in banking and having to pursue other ventures. We're in a fricking recession, of course it's going to be hard. I can almost guarantee the guy with the U Chicago MBA in the article performed poorly in the program. It's not enough to just graduate from a top program, you need to do well. Minorities have it easy when it comes to getting in. The guy in the article could have had a 600 GMAT, and 3.0 GPA undergrad for all we know. Simply getting in doesn't mean anything you have to excel.

Maybe I'm misinformed, but isn't Morehouse a really, really, really good school?

 

Morehouse/Howard aren't really, really good schools. They're much better than the vast majority of schools in the country, but they don't come close to the Ivy league.

Some of these posts are ridiculous. If Lakisha can do a DCF and spread comps, as well as be pleasant at 2am, there's no reason not to take her seriously.

Finally, why would you ever want to turn off Lil' Wayne? The man's a genius.

 
GoodBread:
Morehouse/Howard aren't really, really good schools. They're much better than the vast majority of schools in the country, but they don't come close to the Ivy league.

Some of these posts are ridiculous. If Lakisha can do a DCF and spread comps, as well as be pleasant at 2am, there's no reason not to take her seriously.

Finally, why would you ever want to turn off Lil' Wayne? The man's a genius.

My understanding is that Morehouse is a legit great school and blows Howard out of the water.

Also, Lil' Wayne is obsessed with his music, but is a functioning drug addict. Not sure if you saw the documentary (The Carter), but the guy is on weed and syrup 24/7

 

Morehouse is a good school.

As far as hiring goes, it all boils down to risk management. Unfortunately, african americans get a bad wrap as a whole. A good friend of mine is responsible for performance reviews at a large company, and based on this source, african american males, on average, are the worst performers each year. Of course, there are several african american males that receive perfect reviews as well. As in any hiring/recruiting situation, the employer's goal is to mitigate risk. Statistically, candidates with strong GPAs, SATs, GMATs, etc. from top educational institutions are the least risky with the highest potential reward. Unfortunately again, this methodology is applied demographically as well....and so goes the death spiral. If african americans on a whole can break this historical performance trend, a shift could occur. I feel that were getting closer (hopefully).

 

Today it is not hard to grasp the fact that even though this is 2009-->2010, we are still stuck in the stigma that is racism. And the sad part is that we mostly chose to be oblivious to it. I'm a Hispanic and use to think it was a cop thing, you know growing up in nyc and all that. But as I got older I realized that it wasn't just the cops, it was most white people. And regardless of who says what, it really all comes from what people see in television, movies, and music videos. The real question is: what are we going to do to evolve as a society to surpass this natural ignorance?

Can someone find out from KB24TD21 since when is naming your kid a certain name not being educated enough? I guess Robert and Joshua are educated names? How about Kelvin and Tyler? You got to be retarded or something... No, you probably are retarded.

That is exactly what I am talking about. Whether this individual(KB24TD21) is black or white does not even matter. What does matter is the fact that he/she happens to think that having a name like the ones aforementioned equate to your parents not being educated enough... Give me a break!!!

Another reality is that, we Hispanics and blacks are racist toward the whites as well. But what do you expect? What you give you shall receive. Life is pretty simple like that.

When respect is given, it is most certainly bestowed though. I have respect for all individuals that redeem it.

Are you educated KB24TD21?! That is the true question - TRUE STORY - Ignorance is a dish best not served.

If you ain't buy side what are you doing on Wall St.? Gimme something good sport...
 
contrarian_in_thought:
Today it is not hard to grasp the fact that even though this is 2009-->2010, we are still stuck in the stigma that is racism. And the sad part is that we mostly chose to be oblivious to it. I'm a Hispanic and use to think it was a cop thing, you know growing up in nyc and all that. But as I got older I realized that it wasn't just the cops, it was most white people. And regardless of who says what, it really all comes from what people see in television, movies, and music videos. The real question is: what are we going to do to evolve as a society to surpass this natural ignorance?

Can someone find out from KB24TD21 since when is naming your kid a certain name not being educated enough? I guess Robert and Joshua are educated names? How about Kelvin and Tyler? You got to be retarded or something... No, you probably are retarded.

That is exactly what I am talking about. Whether this individual(KB24TD21) is black or white does not even matter. What does matter is the fact that he/she happens to think that having a name like the ones aforementioned equate to your parents not being educated enough... Give me a break!!!

Another reality is that, we Hispanics and blacks are racist toward the whites as well. But what do you expect? What you give you shall receive. Life is pretty simple like that.

When respect is given, it is most certainly bestowed though. I have respect for all individuals that redeem it.

Are you educated KB24TD21?! That is the true question - TRUE STORY - Ignorance is a dish best not served.

I feel the need to respond because I think my comment was misconstrued. I'm not saying that naming your child that is uneducated, I am African with an African name. What I am saying is like it or not, there is a perception gap and why burden your child more by giving them that name. I've watched people go through resumes and look at names like Shanique with a pause. When I say educated enough, I mean in the sense of knowing that things like this happen all the time. Not educated in the sense of knowing your books, history or math. It's a tough world out there and you better believe that when I have kids I will do everything I can to make sure they start at the same point as everyone else. If that means not picking a name that will be perceived wrongly, i'll do that.

Again, not educated in the way you were thinking. But educated in the way of this is how the world sees things and this is how the world perceives names. So a lot of the people when naming their kids don't know or understand that their is a gap when their child puts Latisha on a resume, it shouldn't be there and I certainly don't agree with it. But it does exist. I recently had a friend legally change her name from Shanique to Ashley and guess what she's much more happy and comfortable with it. That shouldn't be the case but it is, she's able to introduce herself without people looking and judging and sometimes those basic steps are more than you can imagine.

 

I go to a target, and I only know of 2-3 African Americans who are into corporate recruiting/banking. Only a small number of kids at my school go through recruiting, so we see the same people at the waiting room before interviews, and we all know who's who.

Frankly, I think the lower number of African Americans in IBD stems from the fact that very few African Americans at my school are even interested in finance. Talk to any Asian or white student, and they've already planned a straight line path from Exeter to KKR.

 

The "don't hire a LaKisha" comment is sad but true. I have seen managers go through resumes and any name that announced who you are upfront : Luis, Jose, Tamika, etc was deleted. There's no way within 50 years you can go from beating blacks with a baseball bat to holding hands singing, we are the world. Alot of the MDs, VPs, and other people high up enough to hire/fire have been handed down racist views. They know there are "anti-discrimination" laws and aren't stupid enough to make the discrimination obvious. Will a hiring manager admit outload that he deleted a resume because it said Lakisha Jenkins or Jesus Gonzalez with a minority neighborhood? No, he's going to find some BS excuse.. There are plenty of blacks and hispanics that go to decent schools, major in Finance/Econ/Math and they get rejected year after year so they end up working at some crap company where their school loans exceeds their salary. To think blacks and hispanics have it easier thanks to affirmative action is completely ignorant. There was just an article in the Times I believe, that said black male college graduates have a higher unemployment rate than H.S. graduates.

 
lg0718:
There was just an article in the Times I believe, that said black male college graduates have a higher unemployment rate than H.S. graduates.

The above refrenced article:
WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 (UPI) -- U.S. racial disparities remain in the hiring of college-educated African-American men, statistics indicate.

Figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show the unemployment rate for black male college graduates 25 and older so far this year has been nearly twice that of white male college graduates at 8.4 percent compared with 4.4 percent, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

The rest can be read here:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/01/Black-male-college-grad-hirin…

 

I think the problem also is that young black kids don't see real people that have made it out the "hood". If you grow up in an area where the only person not living in poverty is the drug dealer, his girlfriend, the pro athlete and his baby momma then that's all you will aspire to be. Black bankers should mentor kids more

 

Sure, blame the blacks. Are you sure its not because white people are pushing blacks into ghettos and making things unaffordable and giving them no help? Its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Why don't YOU go and mentor them?

 

nontargetguy: You are completely right. Young black youth are surrounded by bankers, accountants and lawyers and anyone else that makes a decent living in finance...umm NO. I am black and pulling the race card is getting old. Last time I checked there is no white man standing next to a 16 yr old high school drop out making her have a child when she can't even take care of herself, I could go on all day with the "white people didn't tell you to do that " spiel. Yes, banking is a straight white male world. Don't get mad, get better: better networking, better models, better everything As long as people get discouraged after 2-3 tries, it will stay a straight white male world

Btw I do volunteer tutor Math and Econ 4 times a month, not that much but its something

 
lg0718:
nontargetguy: You are completely right. Young black youth are surrounded by bankers, accountants and lawyers and anyone else that makes a decent living in finance...umm NO. I am black and pulling the race card is getting old. Last time I checked there is no white man standing next to a 16 yr old high school drop out making her have a child when she can't even take care of herself, I could go on all day with the "white people didn't tell you to do that " spiel. Yes, banking is a straight white male world. Don't get mad, get better: better networking, better models, better everything As long as people get discouraged after 2-3 tries, it will stay a straight white male world

Btw I do volunteer tutor Math and Econ 4 times a month, not that much but its something

Finally, someone with some real insight. The race card thing is getting old and lg0718 hit the nail on the head. Until the black community is ready to make some changes then the perceived "racism" will never leave society as a whole. The Jews are, without a doubt, the most persecuted race on the face of the earth, yet they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. They have decided to not make excuses, to band together and help each other to rise above the suppression and move forward and be successful. So what makes it so much more difficult for those in the black community?

My personal belief, which is shared by many others, is that there is a lack of leadership in the black community to help guide the black youth down the right path and unfortunately there is a horrible mentality amongst the poor, especially those in the inner city, projects, etc that they are owed something and that the government should give it to them. I have a very good friend of mine who spent the first portion of his life in the projects hustlin and nearly failing out of school who, due to deaths in his immediate family, was adopted into a middle class white family. His "parents" aren't rich and don't have some special formula for success, but they taught him that hard work and good grades are the way to be successful in life. He has done well for himself and is on the path to great things. We have had intimate conversations about race and he openly admits that he was afraid to get good grades while he was living in the projects because he would lose his street cred and be laughed at and that everything would be better if the government would just create a program and show people that they can do great things and be successful. Fortunately he was removed from that situation and is doing well, however, that situation exists for 100,000s of poor blacks (and whites) living in the inner cities (trailer parks). The mentality needs to change from the parents and grandparents and they need to support their children and push them in the right direction. This isn't the case now because the large majority of kids in the black community are born out of wed lock and are raised by only one parent (usually the mom) and sometimes they don't even have that and end up being raised by their grandmother or even great grandmother. A large portion of them have fathers that are either incarcerated, have been or will be. That is the major difference between white and black America.

Additionally, it doesn't help when the few "leaders" the black community identifies with, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, don't actually do anything to help promote black prosperity but rather encourage the black community to take on the role of the victim time and time again. Please don't think that I am so naive to believe that racism doesn't exist in our country, because it certainly does...but by no means do I feel there is some mass conspiracy to suppress the members of the black community from becoming successful and educated.

As for what KB24TD21 said...he is right to some degree. While it may seem (or be) racist to judge someone by their name, it is also ignorant on the part of that individuals parents to knowingly name their child something that is difficult (or impossible) to pronounce. It may be sad that people have preconceived (mis)conceptions but it is a fact of life. You wouldn't wear a bathing suit and a tank top to an IB interview because it would put you at a disadvantage. Hell, this is the board that swears against wearing a plain black suit or squared toed shoes to an interview because you might be looked at funny but you guys don't see an issue with having a name that isn't easy to pronounce or spell? Obviously a name doesn't convey whether or not someone is qualified but there is certain protocol in certain industries and when you are in a client facing position and you have a unique name, you could very well make a client feel uncomfortable because they are unable to properly say your name. Case in point, my aforementioned friend argues that it is unfair that he should be expected to speak proper English and use proper grammar, instead of slang, when he is at work. It just IS the way it IS...that is all there is too it. He is a great guy and is more determined than anyone I have ever met (could only do 5 push-ups at a time but challenged himself to do 100,000 in a year and did it) but he has poor command of the English language and often uses words inappropriately, such as spoof instead of spook and often has a difficult time coming up with the words to describe certain situations. He feels that people shouldn't judge him because of the way he speaks and should focus on how hard he works...sadly, that just isn't going to happen, so he can either study and practice speaking "proper" English or he will almost always be perceived as ignorant when people first encounter and speak with him.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

I understand what lg0718 is trying to say, and there's some truth to it but it probably could have been stated better. There's is definitely a system in place within various parts of the country to keep black people right where they are. I speak from experience as I had mentioned before most of my family is in Alabama--one of these types of places. It's a deep, complicated, and well-designed system touching education, the job market, and the politics of both. But this would be a conversation for another place/time than WSO.

That said I do agree that the successful black professionals (banking or otherwise) should feel some sort of obligation to reach out to other members of the community to give them some sense of the opportunities that exist outside of the (generally) vastly under-served areas too many of us grow up in.

 

As far as your environment pushing you towards a career, there really isn't anybody pushing you to go from the hood to IBD, whatever color you are. I doubt there are more than 10 people in the town I grew up in that know what IBD is. Even outside outside of target schools, very few people have a clue what Wall Street actually does. I went to a top 30 school, and plenty of my classmates had no idea what IBD was, because career serivces was pushing consulting as hard as they could.

Bottom line is, even though there might be discrimination in hiring practices (i.e. the name on the resume experiment), there's a whole lot of other things leading to that, including the disproportionate amount of back people in the hood and their under representation in majors leading to IBD (a lot of smart black people seem to get pushed into african-american studies by their peers, what's up with that?).

As far as Weezy goes, I know what's in the cup. The way he sounds, the crazy stuff he comes up with, is in large part to the stuff he's on. He's not a role model by any measure, but the fact that he's become so successful thanks to his addictions is stunning.

 

My perspective (2nd gen african):

Racism is everywhere. Its so prevalent I'm starting to think of it as just a fact of life. It starts innocuously enough sometimes, like everyone in college joining "cultural groups" based on ethnicity/geographic origin. Groups encourage group pride. Part of pride is a belief that you're better than others because of your shared characteristics... one of these being race. These groups encourage racist thinking, even if they are (supposedly? usually? ) not created with the explicit purpose of fostering such thoughts.

Its not just , or even mostly, white people that are guilty of this. In fact, there is a nasty tendency for black people to cluster in such social groups due to their fear of discrimination elsewhere.

As far as banking specifically: trust me, its there. It is subtle, but it is in the unspoken assumption of your superiors that you are less competent, you must have affirmative actioned your way in, etc. A lot of it is flat out based on looks too. White looking latinos don't get it at all, but mexican looking ones do (as long as they can't be confused for indian)- pure fact.

Solutions: I don't have any. I just hope/ think it will get better in the future, because our generation has a lot more knowledge/familiarity/ experience with diversity.

 

AMAZING! I haven't witnessed such ignorance and insecurity like the responses I've seen on this thread in a long time.

The last response KB24TD.. made is a perfect example of an insecurity. Names like Lakisha, Jamal, John, Emma, Jose, etc...are all respectively cultural. Parents approach the "picking the name" time of their parenthood lives differently. For the most part, everyone tends to name their children in line with their culture. There is nothing wrong with someone having a unique name. I have yet to meet someone with my name and I LOVE that. And FYI, Lakisha is a beautiful name with a beautiful meaning. It means "Alive; one who lives" and is an Arabic origin, not African, but common in Northern/Eastern Africa due to the Arabic/Islamic cultural influences, making it a neutral (Christian & Muslim) name.

Another example of ignorance is the fact we are questioning the very existence of racism. Trust me it exists. I'm in a BB and I've come across racism on many dimensions. We're all vicitims of our ethnocentric veiws of the world we live in. Although we might not be proud of our veiws of certain races or cultures, but it does affect us all. Whether you're white, black, latino, or asian, we are all enthnocentric which leads us to racist opinions and veiws if we fail to look from within and check ourselves. It's always been easy to point fingers and hold others to certain expectations but we fail to realize those expectations and veiws of the world are ours, hence not exactly matched by others. This puts the weakness on us. If we don't put aside our differences and realize that all individuals from all walks of life are relevant and stronger and more knowledgable in certain desciplines or qualities, we will not benefit from this thing called Life.

Expressing frustrations and statistical findings and claims by NY Times doesn't do anything but make the battle harder. Yes, let's all be aware of the world and the ugliness in it, but don't feed it. Take what you get and be grateful. Put your energy in the good and positive not the negative. The only reason racism is remains dorman is because there is always something that comes along once in a while and reminds us it's still there. If we pay too much attention to it, guess what it'll crawl back out and eat us.

Let's not forget where we are not compared to where we have been. This country has shed too many tears over inequalities. And NO it didn't just happen because African Americans or Hispanic Americans raised their voices. Yes we OWE all the gratitude to Rosa Parks and Dr. King and Che Guevara for standing for all but don't fail to recognize we have to praise those that HEARD/LISTENED to the outcries. It takes both the sender and the receiver to communicate and if people like Abe Lincoln didn't hear the issues and address them we wouldn't have a better world. So it's not a Black or White or Asian thing. It's a communication thing. Hold yourelf up-high, be proud of your culture and race because you can't change it. You can change the way you look at the world and the only perception that matters is yours and if you perceive your name or culture as an inferior one, guess what that is what others will see from you.

Finance is dominated by the face it's dominated because of the culture of Finance. It began in England and there were White Financiers so it fed off of that and it's not just a White thing, but a family thing as well. You'll find many Financiers come from lines of Financiers, especially in the Front Office's. It's not a bad thing, it's just like how you'll find many Farmers come from traditions of Farming. I don't see anyone complaining about wanting to be a cowboy. Don't play the race card, it's too late for that. Work on your professional life and reach for a hire plateau. Enjoy the plateau, then reach for a higher one. The trick is everytime you attempt to reach a higher one, you have to learn to adjust your mind in order to learn how to climb the hill before you get there. That's life....

 

[quote=HardKnockLife] Yes we OWE all the gratitude to Rosa Parks and Dr. King and Che Guevara for standing for all but don't fail to recognize we have to praise those that HEARD/LISTENED to the outcries. /quote]

Just as a historical note, Che Guevara was not Hispanic-American. He was actually a doctor from Argentina who later co-led the revolution with Fidel Castro and helped him create Cuba into a Communist state. He later died in Bolivia.

Perhaps you were thinking of Cesar Chavez?

 
HardKnockLife:
If we don't put aside our differences and realize that all individuals from all walks of life are relevant and stronger and more knowledgable in certain desciplines or qualities, we will not benefit from this thing called Life.

HardKnock...the issue with the above quoted selection is that it could be, by definition, racist. It is all a matter of personal attitude and perception. Acknowledging a culture's strengths also reveals it's weaknesses and making generalizations based off of what you have witnessed is just human nature.

If someone was to make a statement like "Black people are great athletes" because 80%+ of the players they see play in a NFL football game are black some people would be okay with that, while others would say its racist to just assume that.

It all comes down to an individual's attitude and their willingness to make something of themselves. The race card thing gets old and people will just continue to turn a deaf ear, in greater numbers, to the race complaints as time goes on. As minorities continue to become successful, public figures people will lose continue to lose their sympathy and minorities will be hard pressed to convince others that their lack of success was due to their race. People will have a hard time understanding how one person, whether black, mexican, whatever...can't be successful when there are Supreme Court Judges or Presidental Candidates/Politicans that have made it from the same, or even worse backgrounds.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

LOL...Thanks for taking that out of my long response. I got lost in it and Yes I did mean Cesar Chaves but Che went on the keyboard. Either way, I am simply refering to the fact we have to praise those that fought the battels as well as those that responded. Whether it's in America or not doesn't matter, inequalities in society exist everywhere and even taking Che's work, we have to praise his efforts of fighting economical inequalities he witnessed. Yes, maybe most wouldn't agree with his approach and I don't either in some instances, but I don't question his integrity in its own context.

Either ways, thank you for correcting me.

 

Racism is very prevalent. Think about the way this forum is debating whether or not you should name your kid Lakisha, as if it is a bad thing. Well, it seems like the only thing wrong with the name is that it hints at the fact the the person may be of African-American decent.

Why is a name like Lakisha, Tyrone, or Shaniqua poor , however people think nothing of other ethnic names like Giovanni, Giorgio, Sergei, Giselle, Hugo

 

What is mentioned in the last paragraph of the above post is really what scared me most about Obama being elected--people thinking that he (and others similar to him) are going to be used as reasons for lack of sympathy in the hardships that minorities (especially poor ones face). There are always going to be outliers--Obama is just an extraordinary person. Something similar is true for (most) other prominent African Americans in politics.

I'm not sure I totally understand exactly what "playing the race card" entails, but I do agree that accounting lack of success in one endeavor on another purely on race is generally not completely honest (although there are certainly times when it is true, I have experienced that myself). There is definitely an challenge within the black community to motivate and educate ourselves about the world outside of our isolated (and generally poor) communities. It's a difficult problem, which is framed in a much better way if you read Cornel West's piece on Black Nihilism. I think it's essentially impossible for people who don't have experience in poor black communities to really understand how difficult/intricate of an issue this is (which is why I don't feel it's been given its due credit here, thus "the race card" has been mentioned in several of the posts above). It takes a special person to successfully come out of an environment where 1. the vast majority of those around you have achieved very little and are telling you from a very young age that you will not either and 2. absolutely no one knows how systems outside of their community work, most notably (in my view) college admissions and how to turn college experience into a well paying job. Just having the information I think is huge. Even in my own family, my dad went to community college and I was the first to apply to some of these really competitive places. But now we are familiar with how the system works, so now that my brother is applying, it will be a lot easier for him to be successful. The same is true if he decides he is interested in finance.

But the main thing is that this issue isn't just a black community problem that we need to work out for ourselves. There's a lot of systems in place (as I mentioned before), generally put together by white people in charge (oftentimes many many years ago) to keep black people right in their place. These systems are most obvious in the deep south. The motivations for these systems should be clear enough.

 
  • Growing up as an ambitious black kid is tough. There aren’t enough role models in the black community who aren’t entertainers or athletes, so that’s all that a lot of black kids will ever aspire to be.
  • White oppression of the black race has been evident throughout history, and it continues even to this day.
  • Blacks need to stop using white oppression as an excuse.
  • When whites think of young black men, they think of gangbangers, hoodlums, and dangerous youth. Why would young black men conform to these awful stereotypes. If anything, we as young black men should break away from these assumptions.
  • Black on black oppression is more rampant than white on black oppression. Young black men shooting other young black men just because they’re wearing the wrong colour of clothing. Blacks robbing corner stores owned by other black people. The black community needs to resolve it’s internal issues before facing the rest of the country.
 

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