What has happened to this site? Its quickly becoming a joke.
Why does every political/religious thread get locked but threads like "Do you believe in God?" remain when much of your reasoning definitely applies there too?
Why are there idiots like Prestigious Pete on here? I mean that thread has over 200 posts, whilst actual issues that matter get locked within 50 posts.
Why are there idiots like WaitforSlutset here?
Where is Swagon?
Can we have a separate political/real world forum already and preferably one where shit doesnt get locked?
So much shit gets through on here, it blows my mind.
I gather trolling is hard to control so I've never mentioned it before but locking pages or threads when its just getting interesting has to stop.
Co-sign.
I've been away from the site for a while as well, but it becomes less and less recognizable (content, not design (the design looks great)) every time I come back. I'll be the first to say that I used to defend some of the trolling (hell, I used to participate in quite a bit of it) because it was good fun and that's what the site is all about, but now most of it is just tiresome. Can't quite put my finger on it, maybe it's just the fall recruiting season and it will mellow out in the spring, but something's up.
Who knows though, maybe us old time users are just the hipster early adopters that become disillusioned when a service mainstreams. I'll never think less of a man for wanting to get more out of his business, but it might be good to examine how the current configuration has affected legacy users.
early adopter? cmon son.
I meant, more generally, users that have been with WSO for a few update iterations or a few recruiting cycles at least.
Like you said, can't blame Patrick for wanting to "clean things up" and go mainstream to make the most of his biz. But WSO has definitely lost that love and feeling.
Hey NR - I'm surprised you'd say that - less recognizable? We've had the same types of threads ("what are my chances?") for years...and If anything, legacy / registered users are seeing less ads than before. No 300x250 ad above forum topics in right sidebar (for example).
So, you participated / defended the trolling before but now find it tiresome? Ha, ok, not sure what to say but we're working on it - we depend on the community to flag posts that violate our WSO User Guidelines. We don't get all of them and not everyone will agree on threads we lock and threads we let run...we're not perfect, we're a small team and always trying to improve. The site, always have to balance the "fun" part with the useful part. They've lived together quite nicely for 6 years, and we think they can continue to coexist (but we have to remember the site is also not just about "fun")...I think what is great is being able to read a hilarious post by Eddie and then later that day it is followed up by an educational post by Damadoran.
Yes, we have a lot of new users like every recruiting season. Yes, their questions can get annoying, but we also have a lot more content hitting the home page for legacy users. If you don't like any of our bloggers (//www.wallstreetoasis.com/top-wso-bloggers) I'd be surprised, but we've made a huge effort to get a wide range of voices. This effort has only just started and I fully expect our content to take a significant step forward over the next 12 months.
If you can be more specific what annoys you about the specific current configuration, maybe that would help.
Thanks, Patrick
Okay, I read your response and thought about it some more and have decided I am, in fact, subject to a couple cognitive biases. To the extent that this is relevant to either side of the discourse, here are a couple of my own personal thoughts (one for the pro, one for the anti):
1.) Different users use this site in very fundamentally different ways. This goes much further than "some users view individual forums vs. using the recent tab" discussion, I mean to say that the motives and interactions of users and between users is fundamentally different. At no point have I ever used WSO as a primary source of information or advice, even though that's how a large proportion of users and readers use the site. At no point have I given advice just because I wanted to help the other guy out. I've only ever used this site in two ways (a&b): (a) As a professional network. I have met a number of users in person now and have connected with several others on other, non-anonymous websites like LinkedIn and FB. I've given/taken mock-interviews with people via Skype, taken phone calls and given career advice numerous times - all through initially meeting them as Nouveau Richie on this site. I've also gotten great Investment Banking interviews through careful networking on this site. What's different now is that many of the avenues that users previously used to get to know each other better are no longer available or have been restricted to Certified Users (I'm talking almost entirely about the Chat btw). Also, the fact that there used to be heated debates was a strong unifying force, NOT the other way around. The ability to PM people after hearing that they felt similarly to you on a certain topic was a great way to interact outside of the forum. Now that these features are being diminished, I feel that the WSO sub-community that I used to be a part of has largely moved on, been forced out or lost interest. (b) As a game. I've taken a lot of heat for my periodic, but always shameless, SB whoring on this site, especially in my earlier time here, but any incentive scheme is inherently gamified. I used to crack a lot of jokes and give the best advice I could because I wanted to see how many I could rack up and how efficiently I could do it. I knew I would benefit because I would learn things faster and more thoroughly and that the site would benefit because I wasn't going to waste anyone's time with an uninformed opinion or lousy joke. All 3 parties (me, the other user, and the site) benefited greatly from this. Though I admit that this is still largely possible in the current configuration, I bring it up because (i) administration-enforced culture shifts (different treatment of "parody accounts" and trolls, preferential treatment of CUs) fundamentally change the "game" (hey, you asked how I was affected) and (ii) I believe the manner in which users interact with one another isn't something your Product Managers and admins/mods consider when assessing user experience.
2.) Many of us are at different places in our lives than we were last spring/summer (or whenever this site held our interests most). I personally am at a new job, living in a new place, with a lot of new people in my professional & personal lives, etc. Some of the things that used to capture my attention back in the day (see section 1.b.i - lol) inherently won't anymore and, inversely, I will likely discover new ways to learn and enjoy the site, I'm just at a weird interim stage where I don't see that much appeal. I've probably been able to go through a few recruiting cycles on this site without being annoyed because I was in a relatively static position and now that I'm at a differently place in my life; the ignorant recruits just bore me now. Thus, to the OP and others who are protesting the current site setup, while I agree that your concerns may be valid, ask yourselves what you initially enjoyed about or wanted out of the site and whether or not that's still something you're seeking here. If you find that old habits just die hard, then adapt your methods or leave.
Just some thoughts...
-NR
I've noticed the difference within just the last 1-2 months.
No kidding. Feel like a good portion of the posts on here are now just fucking idiotic. If I see one more "what are my chances / destroy my resume / what is IBD / do my homework" post I'm going to vomit. Most of the frontpage stuff is solid, but the comments are horrendous. Maybe it's time to adapt the infamous upvote/downvote or other comment rating system to help weed out the wasted space. I don't mind a bit of trolling as long as it's funny, but that's not exactly the case here. Thus funny trolls and good comments are easy to find as they float to the top while the idiotic comments are thrown down into the abyss, never to be seen again. Working on an interesting product I might consider licensing to you. But weeding out the shit here has to be a function of the website b/c no one is going to keep spending the time to find useful posts/comments when they have to dig for them.
where is blastoise?
Where the fuck is swagon? Oh, I think he's banned.
yeah can we get unlimited monkey shit? more than 5 monkey shit post gets hidden?
I'm confused. Were you guys around in '06, '07? I felt like there were more new users asking annoying questions back then.
Obviously there's a spike in those guys every fall, but averaging the year out, I think content has dramatically improved over the past five years.
Also, way more mid-career content and users now than there used to be. From the site's point of view, that's probably pretty crucial. Well-employed users will only come here if it's fun and informative for them too; they won't stick around helping hundreds of college juniors for nothing.
For what it's worth, I'm not in favor of WSO becoming a battleground for people's political opinions. The arguments for and against every issue and candidate are well-known and well-trodden. The moment one buzzword or another comes out, you can forecast the whole discussion from that point onward. It's like endless games of tic-tac-toe, except somehow people over the age of five can play it all day long without getting bored. Let's pass on that and stick with finance, jobs, Wall Street, culture, recruiting, bonuses, negotiations, ass, titties, and dollar bills. That ought to be enough fodder to last us decades.
I disagree. I like the political threads and find WSO to be one of the few forums where people can have an intelligent back-and-forth. Yes, there are some trolls and people who may as well be trolls that get involved, but as long as the threads are kept to Monkeying Around, I don't see the harm in them. If anything, that's the whole reason for this forum.
Precisely. In the past month, two threads got locked up real quick. Again, trolls arent the issue, I dont give a shit about them. I feel the same way..its hard to find another forum where I'll actually find people who know what the fuck they're talking about and I can have a healthy argument with them (talking you, Ant, Relinquis, Brady, etc), so either ban such threads completely so no one invests time in them or leave them open no matter what. I suspect Patrick is worried that overtly racial remarks could surface but then perhaps ban users from posting on that particular thread, I dont know, there has to be an alternative.
I'll leave the minute it starts to feel like there's nothing here but trolls and whiny college kids whose chances of making it to Wall Street went out the window years ago. That's not the case now, hasn't been the case in the past, and I don't expect it to be the case in the future. If you can't find useful and informative content on WSO, you're either not looking hard enough or are trying really hard to ignore it. It's not hard to skip over the "Why HBS will get me teh pussy" and the "Prestigious Pete" bullshit. Just do that.
I agree and have been doing so but I still dont understand why threads get locked so quickly, especially ones that actually..y'know, matter?
The only thing that I am not in favor of recently is that the political threads get locked. Hell, 99% of my silver banana points are probably from political discussions. Maybe ban political discussions from the front page, but I have always liked talking on here without it devolving into "F*ck you" or a huge agreement circlejerk (like on specific ideology boards).
The whole "stop making idiotic posts" thing seems stupid to me. WSO is here to help people, and people who know nothing of the industry are gonna ask dumb questions at first. Hell my first post is hilariously stupid. But that is kinda the point isn't it? WSO hasn't really changed in that respect IMHO, it just seems like there are more because it's fall recruiting season, then it dies off. Then comes winter recruiting, then it dies off. Then comes the start of SA. etc.
This may not have the in-depth technical discussions of say Zerohedge articles (although the comments are possibly the definition of a circlejerk), but that isn't what WSO wants or tries to be. It's a fun, informational forum for people in the finance industry. And I think it's doing a great job at that. I took a break for awhile for various reasons, and now I like it just as much as before.
I only joined a few months ago, so I don't have a basis of comparison, but the content seems pretty good and balanced to me. Maybe I'm part of the problem if the quality declined recently.
It seems to me that the biggest troll of all time has been on here for a long time (you know, the guy who talks about slaying chicks at HBS incessantly).
SB'ed for your humility
Brady isnt even that bad compared to some of the idiots that post here. Granted he is obsessed over HBS but thats his dream, let him have it. When he posts on legitimate topics, he makes a ton of sense (for the most part).
Eh, it's tough to defend Brady here. He's had his share of race-fueled comments in political threads that just seemed way out of hand. The HBS thing is nuts, but at least it's harmless.
.
Wait...a guy with the username Nobama likes discussing politics? I'm shocked and amazed.
Here is the issue, anything "controversial" is censored. And by controversial I mean anything political, discussing social issues, foreign policy or anything that isn't PG13.
The entire reason you have an off topic forum is for people to discuss off topic things. And frankly, working professionals need a forum where they can discuss things other than how to break in or does GS do piss tests.
And the excuse that censoring "controversial" topics is good for business doesn't hold water when you have Prestigious Pete and Bankerella posting all kinds of crap.
Now in Bank's defense, some of her posts have been solid, but the site has been inundated with canned content which makes this site look like a playground. For as rowdy as political discussions have been, Bankerella's posts about getting Wall Street dick have been the ones picked up by MSNBC. Really makes this place look professional.
So if the goal is to get raw numbers, fine, keep watering down the content and censoring things. If the goal is to keep professionals coming on to this site after they got their first job then you need to offer something else.
IMO, as the site stands now, I would rather go on ZeroHedge or Deal Breaker. More relevant information without the silly content.
Professionals are all over this site - there is a reason. If you want to read ZH or DB, by all means...both great blogs.
I hear all of your concerns...Trazer, I don't recall ignoring your PM, if it slipped through the cracks please resend (i'll take a look now). I try to respond to all of them but it's not easy.
As far as political threads, we reserve the right to close them or remove them entirely. They are a magnet for violations. Unfortunately on an anonymous forum, they usually go downhill fast. We have locked (not deleted) several in the past month once they devolved into the usual rhetoric. If people were more prone to talk about policies rather than ideologies, I think they would stay open MUCH longer.
We are also in the midst of an election cycle so I don't expect that we will lock all political threads, but I can also assure you that we won't let 3-4 users start bombarding the forums (even if it is in off-topic) with political discussions. That is not the primary reason WSO is here...if the goal was "raw numbers", we would let these discussions go.
As far as Prestigious Pete goes, I have no clue who he/she is, but I think he (for now) is a good example of a member that is clearly a caricature, and his posts are not to be taken seriously...although, I think he did highlight the problem with most political/religious threads quite eloquently:
The above is a generalization as well - there are users that have demonstrated an ability to argue respectfully and intelligently, but unfortunately, they are a minority.
As far as chat goes, it was clear that we didn't have the moderator time to monitor what was going on in there 24/7. As such, some serious violations were happening repeatedly, so we were forced to remove it. However, the opportunity for Certified Users to chat and network in the Certified User group is better than ever.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/wso-certified-user-group
If you're not a Certified User and you are a finance professional, it's likely because you don't have enough post history, and/or your contributions get a lot of MS...if you think you shoudl be certified, we can review your account if you send an email to WallStreetOasis.com>[email protected]
This same complaint pops up every ~6 months. Nothing new.
Ok, so I should be banned because I destroyed you in a debate over the Middle East? And you're complaining about censorship?? What an absolute joke. You claimed that it would be good for free speech to be re-defined so that the Islamic world isn't offended, and I called you out on it and now you're advocating for me to be banned? LOL. Wow, you really are a little Hugo Chavez.
Never said you should be banned.
You didnt destroy shit. You're a fucking joke.
Boy, you really are a moron. I didnt ask for it to be redefined. In fact, I commented that it it ought to be defined more particularly (especially in the court of public opinion) so idiots cannot use the cloud of free speech to pursue agendas and flame fires. Learn to read jackass.
I would like to see this thread for myself to make an objective assessment :)
Oh, I remember this moron. Again, judging from his post here (seeing as I never asked for him to be banned because in the end we're here for debate, esp in political/religious threads), he has trouble construing certain things.
I mentioned that the veil of free speech is used too often to mask people simply looking to fan flames (especially immediately following that commotion with that video to be followed by some ridiculous cartoon), and he figured I said that free speech should not be allowed and I'm advocating censorship.
He has a broad definition of the word 'destroyed' too.
I'd like to mention, now that we're on the topic, about the thread that was closed. There was a quick apology for another cartoon, which frankly was nowhere near as inflammatory, to Netanyahu. Funny about the whole free speech thing never applied here. This was simply the point I was making but WaitforSlutset didnt understand.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/rupert-murdoch-gerald-scarf…
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/429016/20130129/gerald-scarfe-cartoon…
This was the thread:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/benghazi-citizens-take-their-city…
this thread is ironically becoming a caricature of itself
uhmkay. Next!
1) I think the content is good / improving in general
2) This is not a new complaint
3) A politics board might be useful and entertaining (if for nothing else then to give users a specific avenue to air opinions / blow off steam)
Hi amigo, welcome to Wall Street Oasis! I see you're new to the forums, so let me show you around.
Now, first door on the left, you'll find the Middle Eastern Politics room, one of my favorites. Each station in the cool air-conditioned room is equipped with not only a computer but also a luxurious armchair made of the finest top-grain Italian leather and cushions of the perfect density for hours of comfort. So just settle in and leave your cares behind, sit back, relax, and argue away to your heart's content. Each station also includes little white bibs to collect all the saliva and drool that dribbles down as you scream at the monitor, as well as extra sets of keyboard keys to replace the old ones that keep popping off from all the ferocious typing and fist banging on the mahogany desks.
Now, second door on the right, you'll find the Squabbling Bickering Funzone. Right as you enter there is a giant toy chest filled to the brim with electric megaphones. So grab a bullhorn, walk onto the luxurious hand-woven Persian carpeting and past the shimmering crystal chandelier, find a cozy corner of the room, and start yelling to your heart's delight. Broad sweeping generalizations about nations and religions and ambassadors and civilizations and freedoms? Into the megaphone they go, and out they come as loud booming echoes that reverberate throughout the room with forceful tenacity. Any dissidents that might happen to be nearby? Just shriek "retard" into the megaphone over and over as loud as you possibly can, so they'll understand that they've sadly "missed the point", although by now they've all but lost their hearing.
Now, two doors past the fountain on the left, you'll find the Prestige room. Inside, perched atop a marvelous throne made of solid gold with red velvet cushions, surrounded by stained glass windows through which you can almost make out the shadows of the gargoyles perched outside, you'll find me, the digital embodiment of all things prestigious. All paths toward prestige ultimately lead to me, the logical end result.
Now, around the corner, you'll find the restrooms, in case you need to do a virtual #2 in between rants.
I hope you've enjoyed the tour amigo, and hope to see you around the boards as you get acquainted with the surroundings.
What hilarity. Fuck.
I dont even care about the trolling much and I know its been mentioned before. Some of its funny for a while but I'm using it as a comparison tool mainly. When its clear to see that someone is trolling hard, why does that thread remain whilst legitimate threads get locked?
I think the only major issue is the perception that there isn't equal enforcement. So this Prestigous Pete dude is allowed to stick around but we have banned a handful of trolls recently. The PP account obviously only exists to be obnoxious but is allowed to stay while others were banned.
I don't really give a shit one way or the other but thats something to consider.
To be completely honest, I have frequented WSO less and less since these changes that NR talked about have been put in place. Just 6 months ago, the site was fun and full of insight for everyone. Yes I troll from time to time, but there's always going to be trolls, there has to be to keep the site interesting. If it's supposed to be a finance forum, then shouldnt beliefs and views of people working in finance be allowed to be talked about and questioned? I think that it keeps the site going when all of these debates happen. Mostly everyone here is an adult in someway (or at least mature). If people want to talk about God and stuff why cant they, especially when you have assholes like prestigious pete talking about racism so openly
Tony, funny that you post in here because you are probably the only obvious "problem user" that had repeated violations that was able to turn it around and not get banned (maybe you just post less?). If we got you to post less crap and "troll" less, then mission accomplished. I'm actually shocked you've lasted as long as you have.
If you find something that Pete has posted that is racist, please flag it...I haven't seen any posts like that and nobody has flagged his posts that I have seen.
I'm sorry, but it is somewhat entertaining to see one of the most immature users on WSO complain about "assholes" that are clearly a caricature (aka LSO style)...
Really? would you really include yourself in that group?
I disagree with this statement and the #s back me up. We've had less troll posts in the last 2 months and more comments / traffic / interesting discussions in our entire history.
Then I stand corrected. I think troll posts wasnt the best wording, I meant as in non-directly finance related. Such as politics and such. (even though it's not a politics board, just nice seeing other people's beliefs, but maybe that's just me)
Why not have a politics board that requires one to have like a 500 banana point minimum to be seen/post in?
Would keep people from making new accounts just to post radical shit/shit on people for no reason. Would also give some of the older members (CUs and non CUs) a place to discuss stuff and argue without having the general public seeing it.
I haven't been around as much, and I'm not really your target demo, so not sure what this is worth... but a forum where people can post whatever the hell they want and get away with it (barring child pornography/similar shit) I think would be a great addition.
I think you said the stats show there have been more comments/visitors to the site, which I'm assuming is true. But just the forums I check seem like they have less topics on them. I could be completely off, though, so don't kick my ass if I'm wrong haha
Either way, if you think it's improving Patty, keep rollin' with it. I love the shit outta you and this site and only hope for the best for WSO!
Sorry to bring up old threads, but OP (although whiny)is right. I just saw another thread worthwhile to discuss get locked up.
Haha, just saw, ironically it was OP's thread!
Not surprising...sorry guys, this isn't a venue to talk about race/religion/politics. If we see a topic that is going to be a magnet for violations, we shut it down because we don't have the manpower to be on here 24/7.
Sorry, I'm sure the Yahoo message boards will welcome you with open arms...
Not too sure I appreciate the 'not surprising' if it was aimed at me. I thought the topic would be worth discussing. And since when isnt this a venue to talk about race/religion/politics? The Obama inauguration topic got over 100 posts, the God thing has been going on for months.
Generally, I had no issue with locking the thread, its your site. But lets be fair across the board then.
Odd, seeing as I see quite a few political threads around. Harsh to single a particular user.
I think Ops people should be banned from the forum, fucking herbs.
lol at "wso is not a place for political or religious threads" - how long u been on bath salts?
Patrick's apparently selective in what he considers 'political/religious' threads.
No, we've just implemented a new moderating system about 6 months ago that is able to catch more of these discussions before they spiral out of control. I apologize for my tone in my previous post, guess I was having a tough day.
We have not gone through our archives and tried to remove every violation of the WSO User Guidelines from years ago. The users that consiistenly got warnings and couldnt change eventually lost their privileges. Since those changes we blocked about ~10 users and about 95% of our issues went away.
At times, during relavant periods (like an election year) we will try to leave a thread open for as long as possible before it gets derailed with the same rhetoric as usual, however, that does not mean we have to let politics dominate the discussion on a finance centric website.
The same thing goes for a news story or religious topic that is of interest to a majority of the users. We would love to host some of these topics but when we can't moderate it properly, we also aren't going to allow anyone to say whatever they want. We are still a very small team and as I'm sure you can imagine, sometimes it's tough to keep up with ~100s of conversations that are going on every day.
Yes, it's subjective and not a perfect system, but it's also our goal to keep the majority of topics related to business / finance related careers AND to keep the discussion respectful.
I'm sorry if that frustrates you -- my frustration is that we're trying our best to keep it open and respectful, and the amount of work that users like yourself create for us -- by repeatedly stirring the pot with the most controversial topics possible -- is probably a lot more than you think (used to be a lot worse, now a lot of the posts that violate get flagged pretty quickly...but someone, usually me, still has to review them). This takes away valuable time we could be using to recruit better witers, add better features to the site, etc...
Maybe you don't care and you decide that we're being too restrictive -- you're entitled to your opinion. Either way, we do value your contributions and think you've also given back to the community a lot in the past 2 years, so thank you for that.
-Patrick
YEAH Patrick, what gives??? Let's occupy wall street oasis! Down with the fat cats running online communities! For too long we lined their pockets with advertising revenues while we were not impacted by anything they did whatsoever!
Look, not out here to piss anyone off or troll. Just unclear why legitimate threads are locked. If WSO really doesnt want that shit on here, get rid of the Monkeying Around and not try to commercialize the site to attract new users (of all backgrounds), which I guess is the plan.
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