Ph.D. - Yay or Nay?
How many of you have a PhD? Why did you decide to go for it? Did you enter Academia afterwards or did you go for a corporate career?
I'm thinking about getting a PhD and was hoping that people may be able to chime in.
How many of you have a PhD? Why did you decide to go for it? Did you enter Academia afterwards or did you go for a corporate career?
I'm thinking about getting a PhD and was hoping that people may be able to chime in.
Career Resources
Well, I don't have one (I'm one semester away from MBA); but, my boss has an Econ PhD from Berkeley. I've asked him similar questions to what your asking here, so I'll post based on that hearsay...
In his words, "all the really interesting jobs require a Ph.D." Keep in mind, this view is based based on the fact that he did it, and the jobs are interesting to him. He was in risk management for ~10-15 years at a top BB and now strategy at a F50. He mentions occasionally, if he ever gets sick of industry he may consider transitioning to academia - I'm not sure how probable that is though.
In the strategy group I work in, of the people I directly work with (~10-15?), only two have Ph.D.s but all have a masters or two. I hear there is a group of ~20-30 Ph.D.s who do strategy at a higher level for the organization, but I don't know much about that aspect as I only am a part of one industry...
I find this very interesting. To clarify, I am not talking about a PhD in Finance but rather a PhD in something like Strategy & Management.
Real strategy guys are the ones who have years of exp. A PhD in "Strategy & Management" would get you into academia, but you'd have just as good of a shot at corp strat with a top MBA.
Definitely not worth it, there was a thread here not so long ago about an accounting PhD. Only do it if you really love your subject and are willing to spend years focusing on some arcane little area of it. Do you want to have a shot at being tenure-track faculty? If not get a masters.
Unless you want to work in Academia (which is fine) than No.
I somewhat agree with this, but I think it varies based on what your PhD is in... For example, if you do a Finance PhD - finance PhD is to broad (not enough industry knowledge gained, not enough maths to be a quant, not specialized enough to have a niche in industry), so you'll probably be better off going in academia. Another example, if your PhD is in Robotics or Machine Learning... there are many companies looking for these folks to R&D new products, so you could place well into industry. A third example, PhD in Math/CS/Engineering would place well into Quant roles or Big Data...
Bottom line, there ARE jobs in industry for PhDs. But, it depends what field you're in and where your you're looking to end up. PhDs are research oriented degrees and industries do research too (they just expect results faster than academia).
The last CEO of citi was a finance phd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Pandit
Have you actually looked at the quantitative requirements for descent Finance PhDs programs? Math requirements these days is extremely high for finance PhD admission. You need probability theory, real analysis, stochastic processes etc minimum. And these courses only provide you enough firepower to do perhaps empirical research, if you want to do theoretical research, you will have to advance more in mathematics. I have some friends who are in Finance PhD programs now and they are certainly not complaining about how easy the math is, and all of them have exceptional quantitative background: engineering or math graduate degree. So I don't know what you mean by saying finance PhD is not enough math, and finance PhDs are not broad, no modern PhD programs suffer from being too broad.
If Phd's are so bad then why do strategy/consulting firms recruit them then? Nay for finance, yay for "interesting" jobs as the prior poster put it.
They're not bad, it's just not very valuable unless you are going into academia (life science PhDs being the exception to this).
I guess one also has to consider the region in which you want to work. I think in the US it very clear cut, while in Europe PhDs are somewhat "respected" in the business world. Same goes for Asia afaik.
Woah, first of all, do you like research and do you want to do a PhD? If you're in a decent program, It's not regimented like a MBA or another undergrad degree. If you don't love research and academia to some extent, 5 years in an office or lab working on stuff you don't really like with no real deadlines and shitty pay will be pure torture. Currently leaving a program with a MS because I've realized research isn't my thing and I know a couple people who have left finance PhD programs for similar reasons.
That said, I know plenty of math/CS as well as computational bio/chem/mech/materials engineering people who have gone into finance, often in quant positions. But, almost none of them set out to do a PhD with finance in mind. I'm sure the math requirements for Finance PhD programs are relatively high, but for quant positions, my impression is that they want people who have done significant math research, not just taken classes. Hard to compete with the math whiz undergrad/grad or computational engineering PhD who just spent 5 years doing cutting edge modeling on random events in whateverthehell system.
If you want to go the corporate CTO/industry research route, you'll want a PhD. Since you're posting this on WSO, I'm guessing the latter is not your goal.
The way I see it, people who think that all the interesting jobs require PhDs are also the types who only find PhD type research work to be interesting. It's just not for everyone.
I think that the difference between PhD programs in the USA and Europe is pretty significant. At some universities in Europe you don't need to do coursework and can just work on your dissertation.
The background of my questions is that, I am wondering whether I should continue my education if I can't land a FT offer or do something else.
PhD? Worthwhile? Target Schools? (Originally Posted: 04/13/2012)
I'm currently studying for a combined BA/Masters in Mathematics and I want to complete a PhD before moving into banking. The reason for doing the PhD is because I enjoy it, not out of any specific desire to work as a quant (but I'd be quite happy doing so).
My question is this: when banks recruit PhDs, do they choose only from target graduate schools? Moreover, are all PhDs selected to work as quants?
I'm currently at Oxford, but transferring into the PhD/DPhil program in Mathematics is far from automatic (I went to a presentation last year where it was proudly announced that only the top 10 or 15 by in a class of 200 or so are permitted to stay for the PhD) so while I'm good enough to do a PhD, it's unlikely I'll be at Oxford; probably more likely to be at somewhere like Warwick, Bristol or Bath, all of which have very good mathematics departments but offer a weaker undergraduate degree.
Will this matter when I apply for a job? It'd be a shame to find out that they only want PhDs from Oxbridge or Imperial
Thanks!
If you are at Oxford and as it's a target can't you directly get into a bank? Why go for PhD and spend 5 years? Most people do PhDs to get into academia. You want to get into academia?
He said he's doing it out of enjoyment...
For that, I applaud you, since many people in today's world don't appreciate academics as much as they should. As for your question, I think it depends on whether or not you want to start in banking that late in your career/age. If you're ok with being a quant, that route might make more sense.
This would be a long shot and not familiar with British recruiting practices, but would you be able to apply for jobs now while at Oxford, then defer the start date until you get the PhD. That way you get the targeted recruiting, but you also have the opportunity to do a PhD while knowing you have a job. I realize this is a long shot considering a PhD might take 4 years, but I thought it would be worth mentioning just in case...
Take it from a nontarget PhD: Experience>>>PhD in terms of adding to your earning power. Especially in a field like banking. Target>PhD in terms of recruiting options.
"PhD might take 4 years" Yeah, in the best case scenario it might. How about 7 or 10, or not making through it at all? It's very different from undergrad where you just put in the effort to study stuff, get all "A"s, and you're done.
I have a decent math background, I tried to read some of the work that gets published nowadays and I couldn't understand any of it. Kudos to you!
No, your PhD will have been a waste of time for IBD. Also, you'll probably get auto-dinged for saying anything like "I wanted to do banking all along but did the PhD because I enjoyed it (read: without regard to the overall consequences to my career)".
Phd's Anyone? (Originally Posted: 04/15/2010)
Anyone have their finance Phd? I'm curious to hear how long it took you, where you ended up and if in retrospect you are happy with your decision to get it (vs maybe continuing to work or getting and MBA, etc).
http://wilmott.com good luck
i have a phd. a playa hating degree
i know lots of people at banks with phd's, but none of them were in finance
I don't have one, but I think it boils down to this:
1) For entry level jobs it will be handicap. You will compete with smarter people for fewer jobs. 2) For high level jobs it will be almost a prerequisite. If they can't decide which of two guys should join the board and one of them has a Dr. he'll win.
phd, quant (Originally Posted: 09/20/2010)
Hi, I'm a physics major who is deciding whether to apply to a Phd program or go straight into banking as an analyst? Which is better? I'm interested in research, but I know that I dont want to go work in the industry nor academia after my phd.
what ranking is the phd programs you apping to
I'm positive I could get into a top-10 program.
quantnet,com is your friend for now. Until you are able to find another source. You should scour the internet for information. That's the best way to come to your own conclusion. However, you are prime to not waste your time with banking. So try to get into an MFE/MFAM program and good luck. Start getting a grip of basic finance and accounting now. In this game being ahead counts. Good luck again friend.
obviously go straight into banking. Ifyou want a career on Wall Street, a good analyst job is 9 times out of 10 a better option than any graduate degree whether it be MFE/PhD/MBA/DoctorateInAllThingsQuant or anything else. Does one really have to explain why? It's not about the degree- its about proving that you can do something. I shake my head whenever I see questions weighing an actual job offer vs. another degree.
Ph.D paths? (Originally Posted: 04/03/2008)
I've pretty much decided to double major in economics and take some upper level math courses to open up grad school as a possibility, considereing I'm at a non-target and not sure that I want to go into IB anyway. Anyway, I'm thinking I would want to try to go right into (hopefully) a top Ph.D program in Economics of Finance. I am interested in academia and research as a career path, but has anyone heard or know of graduating Ph.Ds getting good gigs? Thanks.
Yes.
Chairman of the Federal Reserve (i.e. jobs in various central banks around the world) Inter-Governmental Organizations such as the UN, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, Asian Development Bank, and so forth. Research orgs, think tanks, lobby groups, etc. - some are very well funded. Financial institutions - banks, trusts, insurance companies, etc. do hire economists, or in investment banks the quant dudes (the human calculators) working in structured products (although you'll see lots of Math and Physics PhDs).
Alex Chu
I know professors that can make 10k a day for consulting, not to bad of a gig where you have complete control of your schedule
Vikram Pandit is a Finance PhD
PhD (Originally Posted: 04/06/2012)
I want to be a Quantitative analyst or a security analyst. Is a PhD Economics the right degree to keep both these options open? I am very good in economics and i just passed high school. Thanks in Advance
A PhD in Economics from any university would give you a chance to be a Quant Analyst. PM me if you have any questions. A PhD in Economics from a top university would give you a better shot. As long as you don't let your advisor know you are trying to work in the private sector. Some advisors frown upon this, and they want their students to be researchers/professors.
Alternatively if you've just passed high school perhaps you should slow down and ponder which undergraduate degree to do first.
As a former Quant I'd ask what are you doing hoping to do for for undergrad?
Hopefully you're doing:
If you're not doing something extremely similar to the above list as undergrad, don't waste your time pondering a post-graduate degree.
If you are doing something on the above list. Then do a master's/PhD in either:
And ensure your thesis is loosely applicable to finance.
Are people seriously giving Ph.D. advice to a high school student...Did you even finish high school early? You are more than jumping the gun, there are students in their second year of undergrad who are ill prepared to make the decision of whether to go for a Doctorate.
Study your books and try to do well. Doing well in high school economics is bordering on laughable as a metric for whether or not you should earn a Ph.D. in the subject.
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