Ph.D. - Yay or Nay?

How many of you have a PhD? Why did you decide to go for it? Did you enter Academia afterwards or did you go for a corporate career?

I'm thinking about getting a PhD and was hoping that people may be able to chime in.

 

Well, I don't have one (I'm one semester away from MBA); but, my boss has an Econ PhD from Berkeley. I've asked him similar questions to what your asking here, so I'll post based on that hearsay...

In his words, "all the really interesting jobs require a Ph.D." Keep in mind, this view is based based on the fact that he did it, and the jobs are interesting to him. He was in risk management for ~10-15 years at a top BB and now strategy at a F50. He mentions occasionally, if he ever gets sick of industry he may consider transitioning to academia - I'm not sure how probable that is though.

In the strategy group I work in, of the people I directly work with (~10-15?), only two have Ph.D.s but all have a masters or two. I hear there is a group of ~20-30 Ph.D.s who do strategy at a higher level for the organization, but I don't know much about that aspect as I only am a part of one industry...

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 
pplstuff:
="all the really interesting jobs require a Ph.D."

I find this very interesting. To clarify, I am not talking about a PhD in Finance but rather a PhD in something like Strategy & Management.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 
Matrick:
To clarify, I am not talking about a PhD in Finance but rather a PhD in something like Strategy & Management.

Real strategy guys are the ones who have years of exp. A PhD in "Strategy & Management" would get you into academia, but you'd have just as good of a shot at corp strat with a top MBA.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 
That_Aston:
Unless you want to work in Academia (which is fine) than No.

I somewhat agree with this, but I think it varies based on what your PhD is in... For example, if you do a Finance PhD - finance PhD is to broad (not enough industry knowledge gained, not enough maths to be a quant, not specialized enough to have a niche in industry), so you'll probably be better off going in academia. Another example, if your PhD is in Robotics or Machine Learning... there are many companies looking for these folks to R&D new products, so you could place well into industry. A third example, PhD in Math/CS/Engineering would place well into Quant roles or Big Data...

Bottom line, there ARE jobs in industry for PhDs. But, it depends what field you're in and where your you're looking to end up. PhDs are research oriented degrees and industries do research too (they just expect results faster than academia).

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 
pplstuff:
That_Aston:
Unless you want to work in Academia (which is fine) than No.

I somewhat agree with this, but I think it varies based on what your PhD is in... For example, if you do a Finance PhD - finance PhD is to broad (not enough industry knowledge gained, not enough maths to be a quant, not specialized enough to have a niche in industry), so you'll probably be better off going in academia.

The last CEO of citi was a finance phd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Pandit

 
Best Response
pplstuff:
That_Aston:
Unless you want to work in Academia (which is fine) than No.

I somewhat agree with this, but I think it varies based on what your PhD is in... For example, if you do a Finance PhD - finance PhD is to broad (not enough industry knowledge gained, not enough maths to be a quant, not specialized enough to have a niche in industry), so you'll probably be better off going in academia. Another example, if your PhD is in Robotics or Machine Learning... there are many companies looking for these folks to R&D new products, so you could place well into industry. A third example, PhD in Math/CS/Engineering would place well into Quant roles or Big Data...

Bottom line, there ARE jobs in industry for PhDs. But, it depends what field you're in and where your you're looking to end up. PhDs are research oriented degrees and industries do research too (they just expect results faster than academia).

Have you actually looked at the quantitative requirements for descent Finance PhDs programs? Math requirements these days is extremely high for finance PhD admission. You need probability theory, real analysis, stochastic processes etc minimum. And these courses only provide you enough firepower to do perhaps empirical research, if you want to do theoretical research, you will have to advance more in mathematics. I have some friends who are in Finance PhD programs now and they are certainly not complaining about how easy the math is, and all of them have exceptional quantitative background: engineering or math graduate degree. So I don't know what you mean by saying finance PhD is not enough math, and finance PhDs are not broad, no modern PhD programs suffer from being too broad.

 

I guess one also has to consider the region in which you want to work. I think in the US it very clear cut, while in Europe PhDs are somewhat "respected" in the business world. Same goes for Asia afaik.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

Woah, first of all, do you like research and do you want to do a PhD? If you're in a decent program, It's not regimented like a MBA or another undergrad degree. If you don't love research and academia to some extent, 5 years in an office or lab working on stuff you don't really like with no real deadlines and shitty pay will be pure torture. Currently leaving a program with a MS because I've realized research isn't my thing and I know a couple people who have left finance PhD programs for similar reasons.

That said, I know plenty of math/CS as well as computational bio/chem/mech/materials engineering people who have gone into finance, often in quant positions. But, almost none of them set out to do a PhD with finance in mind. I'm sure the math requirements for Finance PhD programs are relatively high, but for quant positions, my impression is that they want people who have done significant math research, not just taken classes. Hard to compete with the math whiz undergrad/grad or computational engineering PhD who just spent 5 years doing cutting edge modeling on random events in whateverthehell system.

If you want to go the corporate CTO/industry research route, you'll want a PhD. Since you're posting this on WSO, I'm guessing the latter is not your goal.

The way I see it, people who think that all the interesting jobs require PhDs are also the types who only find PhD type research work to be interesting. It's just not for everyone.

 

I think that the difference between PhD programs in the USA and Europe is pretty significant. At some universities in Europe you don't need to do coursework and can just work on your dissertation.

The background of my questions is that, I am wondering whether I should continue my education if I can't land a FT offer or do something else.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 
IRSPB:
If you are at Oxford and as it's a target can't you directly get into a bank? Why go for PhD and spend 5 years? Most people do PhDs to get into academia. You want to get into academia?

He said he's doing it out of enjoyment...

For that, I applaud you, since many people in today's world don't appreciate academics as much as they should. As for your question, I think it depends on whether or not you want to start in banking that late in your career/age. If you're ok with being a quant, that route might make more sense.

 

This would be a long shot and not familiar with British recruiting practices, but would you be able to apply for jobs now while at Oxford, then defer the start date until you get the PhD. That way you get the targeted recruiting, but you also have the opportunity to do a PhD while knowing you have a job. I realize this is a long shot considering a PhD might take 4 years, but I thought it would be worth mentioning just in case...

 

Take it from a nontarget PhD: Experience>>>PhD in terms of adding to your earning power. Especially in a field like banking. Target>PhD in terms of recruiting options.

"PhD might take 4 years" Yeah, in the best case scenario it might. How about 7 or 10, or not making through it at all? It's very different from undergrad where you just put in the effort to study stuff, get all "A"s, and you're done.

 

I don't have one, but I think it boils down to this:

1) For entry level jobs it will be handicap. You will compete with smarter people for fewer jobs. 2) For high level jobs it will be almost a prerequisite. If they can't decide which of two guys should join the board and one of them has a Dr. he'll win.

 

quantnet,com is your friend for now. Until you are able to find another source. You should scour the internet for information. That's the best way to come to your own conclusion. However, you are prime to not waste your time with banking. So try to get into an MFE/MFAM program and good luck. Start getting a grip of basic finance and accounting now. In this game being ahead counts. Good luck again friend.

If you ain't buy side what are you doing on Wall St.? Gimme something good sport...
 

obviously go straight into banking. Ifyou want a career on Wall Street, a good analyst job is 9 times out of 10 a better option than any graduate degree whether it be MFE/PhD/MBA/DoctorateInAllThingsQuant or anything else. Does one really have to explain why? It's not about the degree- its about proving that you can do something. I shake my head whenever I see questions weighing an actual job offer vs. another degree.

 

Yes.

Chairman of the Federal Reserve (i.e. jobs in various central banks around the world) Inter-Governmental Organizations such as the UN, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, Asian Development Bank, and so forth. Research orgs, think tanks, lobby groups, etc. - some are very well funded. Financial institutions - banks, trusts, insurance companies, etc. do hire economists, or in investment banks the quant dudes (the human calculators) working in structured products (although you'll see lots of Math and Physics PhDs).

Alex Chu

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

A PhD in Economics from any university would give you a chance to be a Quant Analyst. PM me if you have any questions. A PhD in Economics from a top university would give you a better shot. As long as you don't let your advisor know you are trying to work in the private sector. Some advisors frown upon this, and they want their students to be researchers/professors.

 

Alternatively if you've just passed high school perhaps you should slow down and ponder which undergraduate degree to do first.

As a former Quant I'd ask what are you doing hoping to do for for undergrad?

Hopefully you're doing:

If you're not doing something extremely similar to the above list as undergrad, don't waste your time pondering a post-graduate degree.

If you are doing something on the above list. Then do a master's/PhD in either:

  • Mathematics (of Financial Maths)
  • Actuarial Science
  • Physics (or any other applied science)
  • Computer Science
  • Engineering
  • Financial Economics/Engineering
  • Econometrics
  • Applied Statistics

And ensure your thesis is loosely applicable to finance.

- Ostende Mihi Pecuniam -
 

Are people seriously giving Ph.D. advice to a high school student...Did you even finish high school early? You are more than jumping the gun, there are students in their second year of undergrad who are ill prepared to make the decision of whether to go for a Doctorate.

Study your books and try to do well. Doing well in high school economics is bordering on laughable as a metric for whether or not you should earn a Ph.D. in the subject.

 

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