pimco is a very legit buyside/money management firm. Most people enter banking for the exit opps into the buyside, not sure why one would want to do the reverse route.

I'm sure it is possible to switch over to banking, although that would depend on the role you had in pimco. If it was as a buy side analyst, trader, something like that, im sure the transition would not be too hard. If it was more of a back office, operations role, it would be more difficult

 

You know how many of us are always talking about how all you guys obsessed with IB need to wake up and realize there are positions out there that blow away IB at Goldman? Well, PIMCO is one of them. PIMCO is significantly harder to land a gig at than Goldman. Period. I went to 1 of the 2 MBA programs PIMCO recruits at, and landing a position there is considered far more prestigious than any banking job.

 

PIMCO has clout. It literally has senior bankers doing backflips for morsels, like most big buy-side shops. PIMCO gets whatever it wants because it has money. Also, asset manager name is more significant in distribution than bank name.

If you're interested in California, TCW is another good FI shop.

 

PIMCO's reputation is second to none. They told me last year they had 8 SA (6 in OC and 2 in NY), and they are around 900 employees total. I had a phone interview with HR, and unfortunately for me, their next step in recruiting process runs a little later that most BB (they begin round 2 at the end of January). I had an offer from GS at the beginning of Jan so I never got to go back for round two. Its a great company and offers a great opportunity for someone to work in a "smaller" organization....and besides Bill Gross is really "the man"!

 

Tollerable weather, nicer girls, less expensive..

jk, you've hit the nail on the head. The VAST majority of their busienss is in OC.

-------------- Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
 

I'm from a non-core grad school, and I just kinda got lucky and got my resume in front of the right people at both places. I didn't feel like I was in a position to ask GS to wait a month. I loved all the people at GS and could see my self working there for a long time. The recruiting schedule is something that PIMCO probably should address if they want top talent...then again if you only need 8 it makes it a lot easier...bottom line though...if you get an offer from PIMCO you are an idiot if you don't take it!

 

Every year at Wharton and HBS between 30 and 40 people go to Goldman. One or two go to PIMCO. It's not even close. And Goldman recruits at others schools, as well, while PIMCO does not. My last year of b-school I interviewed with PIMCO. They said they were planning to hire about 10 people that year worldwide. 1 portfolio manager and 8-9 account managers. Goldman hired at least 100 between banking and S&T.

 

in any case, I thought PIMCO's people were all hired from extremely well-established backgrounds. what kind of job would a wharton or hbs grad be doing anyway? (i don't suppose they would hire undergrad would they? :D)

 

Good call Jimbo. Goldman hired around 100 just from the top 5 or so US b-schools. Worldwide probably around 200-300. I'd have to look back at my notes from recruiting, but at PIMCO the two main positions are portfolio manager and account manager. And both are far more prestigious than M&A at Goldman. Go to the website for a good overview, but the AM runs all client relationships, while the PM actually, well, manages the portfolio. PIMCO requires all AMs to get their CFA, as well, after finishing their MBA. In order to work there in either role not only do your quant skills have to be top notch, but you have to have a very serious understanding of macroeconomics. And I mean everything in macroeconomics. I learned more in a 30-min first round interview with them than I did in probably 4 or 5 macro class sessions. Those guys are a league above your average banker or trader.

 

you know pimco trades bonds right? it's not like ibanking. you're not building lbo models at a place like pimco (you might be looking at models on lbo risk, do you know why this is the case?)

seriously though, there's almost no chance you're going to get an internship at pimco, so it's idle speculation.

 
IBBI:
Jimbo, I think you are wrong

Its the little engine that could!

In all seriousness, good for you that you are confident. But at the same point, your time can probably be better spent than on speculation about a company that hires such a small pool, unless you already have an interview lined up.

 

you think i'm wrong about what? how's your bond math? can you calculate dv01? what happens to spreads on an lbo scare? any idea what type of basis you get hedging swaps with futures? or what parts of the vol surface will move when a big structured deal prints?

you may be a good equity trader, i have no idea. but if you want to get a job at pimco, you're gonna have to demonstrate a helluva lot more knowledge about the bond market than you have in this thread.

 

Guys, PIMCO is a mutual fund. Very few people there will make millions/yr. It is no more prestigious than Vanguard or Fidelity, and its returns are nowhere near the level of a lot of other investment managers, for instance CalPERS or CalSTRS.

And as for the guy who said "PIMCO is significantly hader to land a gig at than Goldman," the rationale that it is harder to get a position there solely because it hires a couple of people from wharton is pretty skewed. It's like saying that an ops position is more difficult to obtain because they hire less wharton kids than IBD happens to. You must also take into account how many wharton kids are actually gunning to trade bonds all day for a subsidiary of an German insurance company, which I would venture to say is not many. Speaking of having macroeconomic knowledge, how about taking into consideration the labor supply curve when comparing GS IBD and PIMCO? I guarantee you the current quantity of labor supplied at PIMCO won't come close to the 100,000+ applications that Goldman sees for its investment banking analyst positions.

Seriously, this shit is as vanilla as investment management comes. The b-school kids who go there are the ones who either didn't get into any HFs or wanted a more stable, less stressful work environment.

 
Jimbo:
how's that going for you?

Haha, good one. I was an average kid from a target school and had interviews with both Goldman and Pimco. The Goldman IBD interview was much easier. Standard issue walk me through your resume, a couple quant questions, talk to me about a couple stocks you like, etc.

The Pimco interview, on the other hand... wow. Unreal. Had no idea what I was getting myself into, and the guy was a total pr*ck. The only interview I ever had where I knew I wasn't going back for a 2nd round.

BTW I wouldn't call Pimco just another mutual fund. The amount of return they generate for bond funds is just about tops of the industry. I hope whoever was comparing their returns to Vanguard or Fidelity wasn't looking at Equity funds....

 
Prescott--I agree with you that the work is rather "plain" in comparison to much of what goes on out there, but I view equities in the same way, and look how many kids are beating down the doors of long/short equity-only <abbr title="hedge funds">HFs</abbr>. For me, a job like that is akin to watching grass grow, but hey, to each his own.

As far as my comment on the difficulty of obtaining the job, I stand by my claim. Like I mentioned, I went to one of the 2 schools that PIMCO recruits at, and can tell you from my personal experience with my classmates that PIMCO is looked upon more highly than a typical job at GS (commodities prop trader no, standard IB or S&T, yes). And for that matter, Fidelity was more sought after than GS, as well.

 
consultant16180:
What the heck? At my school, a target, no-one wanted jobs at PIMCO or BlackRock or Fidelity. The stuff they make college grads do is worthless.

No-one in their right mind chose PIMCO over GS or any bank or consulting firm for that matter. They got pretty low quality candidates who were willing to move West.

I'm calling bullshit on your post. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I can speak from personal experience that at the MBA level, for example, PIMCO recruits at HBS and Wharton. That's it. As I said, I went to one of those schools and PIMCO was looked upon with higher regard than Goldman. Especially some bullshit IBD job.

I've said this before, undergrads may lust after an IBD position, but at the MBA level IB is for people with no other way of breaking into finance. And if you really think GS is above PIMCO, go ahead and visit GS in person. Sit in either the IBD area or on a trading desk and watch how those people drop everything they're doing the moment PIMCO calls. Now again, if you are in certain areas of GS, like maybe a top prop trading desk, certain structuring areas, principal investments, etc. then yes, I would take those positions over a fund, hedge or real-money. But to suggest that any standard IBD position, regardless of the firm, is better than PIMCO is absurd. Period.

 
skins1:
consultant16180:
What the heck? At my school, a target, no-one wanted jobs at PIMCO or BlackRock or Fidelity. The stuff they make college grads do is worthless.

No-one in their right mind chose PIMCO over GS or any bank or consulting firm for that matter. They got pretty low quality candidates who were willing to move West.

I'm calling bullshit on your post. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I can speak from personal experience that at the MBA level, for example, PIMCO recruits at HBS and Wharton. That's it. As I said, I went to one of those schools and PIMCO was looked upon with higher regard than Goldman. Especially some bullshit IBD job.

I've said this before, undergrads may lust after an IBD position, but at the MBA level IB is for people with no other way of breaking into finance. And if you really think GS is above PIMCO, go ahead and visit GS in person. Sit in either the IBD area or on a trading desk and watch how those people drop everything they're doing the moment PIMCO calls. Now again, if you are in certain areas of GS, like maybe a top prop trading desk, certain structuring areas, principal investments, etc. then yes, I would take those positions over a fund, hedge or real-money. But to suggest that any standard IBD position, regardless of the firm, is better than PIMCO is absurd. Period.

Um, what are you calling BS on? I specifically said that the positions they have for undergrads are crap. I know that at the MBA level, they are one of the most sought after employers. I agree with you that going into IB post-MBA is both easy and not highly desirable for students at top B-schools.

I am not suggesting anything. I am just pointing out that the firm is not the be-all-end-all for undergrads. Of course it's better to be on buy-side later on, but the initial experience you get at large funds as a fresh college grad is nothing compared to a structure analyst programs at banks and consultancies.

 
skins1:
consultant16180:
What the heck? At my school, a target, no-one wanted jobs at PIMCO or BlackRock or Fidelity. The stuff they make college grads do is worthless.

No-one in their right mind chose PIMCO over GS or any bank or consulting firm for that matter. They got pretty low quality candidates who were willing to move West.

I'm calling bullshit on your post. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I can speak from personal experience that at the MBA level, for example, PIMCO recruits at HBS and Wharton. That's it. As I said, I went to one of those schools and PIMCO was looked upon with higher regard than Goldman. Especially some bullshit IBD job.

I've said this before, undergrads may lust after an IBD position, but at the MBA level IB is for people with no other way of breaking into finance. And if you really think GS is above PIMCO, go ahead and visit GS in person. Sit in either the IBD area or on a trading desk and watch how those people drop everything they're doing the moment PIMCO calls. Now again, if you are in certain areas of GS, like maybe a top prop trading desk, certain structuring areas, principal investments, etc. then yes, I would take those positions over a fund, hedge or real-money. But to suggest that any standard IBD position, regardless of the firm, is better than PIMCO is absurd. Period.

And i would like to call bullshit on yours. a-) The candidate pool that desires Goldman is very different and much larger than that which desires PIMCO. b-) PIMCO recruits from schools other than HBS/Wharton. Just to blow an inch wide hole in your bullshit, this is UC Irvine...ever heard of them ??? http://applicant.merage.uci.edu/StudentLife/CareerServices/WhoRecruits… c-) In europe they recruit from London Business School amongst others d-) Choice of employers at Wharton...with friends in current batches, I can tell you this, PIMCO being higher than Goldman in general..i roll my eyes. It's between the PE firms and Ibanking at wharton. Last year number of people who rated Goldman as their top choice for prospective employer was around 80. Pimco would not have had even 10 names.

So stop insulting others, being a prick and that without having any clue of reality.

 

what about wellington, fido, and vanguard, both at the ugrad and MBA levels? an opportunity there would obviously lead you someplace different, but what are the pros and the cons

 

Consultant, I am sick of your bullshit and pulling a plug on you. They do hire "analysts" for Account Managers and Portfolio Managers. I mean, do IBs recruit undergrads as Investment banker? No, they recruit them as analysts. Same deal at PIMCO.

 

this post was pretty funny to read. basically a bunch of high school students saying "What?! There is more to finance than Investment Banking?!"

comparing how many people apply to IBD and how many people apply to the buy-side is ridiculous... there are way more slots available in IBD (WAY more..not even close) at both the undergrad and graduate level.

and the fact that PIMCO is owned by a german insurance company doesn't really mean anything. Many of the best asset managers are private companies (Wellington, Fidelity, MFS)

need i remind you, GS historically earned such a great reputation (distinguishing it from other banks) largely from benefiting as a private company. then it went public. and then its reputation got tainted

 

I'm assuming you're talking about their Account Associate SA position, which is one of the more competitive positions for PIMCO SAs

The first round is usually more technical where they will ask you questions about what is happening in the news and some basic finance questions like what is duration, convexity, and factors that affect prices of bonds

The superday at their offices in the OC consist of anywhere from 6 to 10 interviewers. The questions are mostly behavioral and fit based but will also have some technical questions in there here or there. You will have about 4 interviewers in the morning followed by a lunch with two members of the firm followed by afternoon interviews.

Their average pay for SAs is about $700/week plus performance bonuses at the end of the year and a signing bonus of about $2500.

Feel free to reply to the thread of PM me if you have any more questions about their program.

 

I did an internship in their Newport office. Dress code was shirt and tie, always. Look professional. A suit is optional but is good to bring every now and then just so people know you have one. Some of this depends on what group you are in, but that is the standard for the vast majority. When you get there eat lunch over at Pacific Life as soon as possible; you will save yourself loads of cash. I have no idea what NY is like.

 

Hey I interviewed at PIMCO in the fall. Actually know a friend who got placed in NYC office. During the interview they explained to applicants that undergrad positions are account analysts. I think they serve as institutional representatives that work with clients. The position is a client facing role rather then actual portfolio management.

If it is for that type of role than the position is not the best but the experience sounded great. You use all the proprietary tools and typical exit opp is 3 years then b school. They suggested the want you to get started in CFA quickly and many are able to transfer to buy side position.

If I'm completely off base excuse me. This is what was described for the position I applied for. Salary was 70-80K (?) with a relocation bonus. Good luck. Pretty selective program

Not sure how it compares to BR.

 

Both firms are at the top of the league as far as AM goes. PIMCO has a marginally stronger reputation in fixed income, but BlackRock is well respected in FI too. You are really looking at the Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley of AM; any differences in reputation are marginal.

Unless you got a position comparable to PMG from PIMCO, BlackRock would probably give you better experience. BlackRock is also a larger firm with a more established training program.

Picking entry level positions based on pay is illogical, but both firms are going to pay similarly. PMG is generally the best compensated group in most AM firms, depending on performance, so you might be getting a little more cash from BlackRock.

I think you might not be familiar with buyside Asset Management careers; people generally do not go in looking for exits. It is a career decision; many analysts stay with the same firm 20 years. There are not many well defined exit opps; you could potentially find work in PWM, a HF, or another market oriented role. However, working in AM is not the best route to any of those positions.

Both firms are also going to require similar hours. PIMCO has a reputation for a competitive internal culture, whereas I have heard different things about BlackRock across various offices.

Congratulations on those offers. You can't go wrong with either firm. Work for the one where you like the people around you best.

 
West Coast rainmaker:
Congratulations on those offers. You can't go wrong with either firm. Work for the one where you like the people around you best.

This is probably the most salient point and some of the best advice you will get. It's important that you like the people because you will be spending an inordinate amount of time with them. West Coast is correct in that all the opportunities will probably leave you with similar advantages and disadvantages, so you might as well try to be as happy as possible.

 

curious about the account analyst position. what kind of exit opportunities does this have? how is servicing institutional clients perceived among the street?

 

....but the market closes @ 1pm, I love los angeles. Gross is probably out the office by 11:30 if not sooner.

Please don't make me talk to you like an asshole...
 

The culture is pretty nuts. I talked to several students who interned there this summer, and they liked the work but hated the culture. You have to get to the office ridiculously early, business formal, no talking allowed, you get penalized for making grammatical errors in your e-mails, etc. Sort of the Bridgewater of AM when it comes to a kooky culture.

 

Some funds choose not to be structured as a hedge fund for a variety of reasons, even though they have strong returns/great analysis. For one thing, you can cast a much wider net for investors. At Doubleline Capital, Gundlach (the Pervy Wonder), manages mutual funds. The Fairholme Funds and the Sequoia Funds are other examples-while they're not as large as PIMCO they have great performance and have made their managers very wealthy. Even John Paulson's launching a EU UCITS mutual fund (http://www.hfmweek.com/news/577487/paulson-and-biggs-plan-ucits-launche…).

PIMCO also runs alternative strategies/hedge funds through private funds and managed accounts, which is common to a lot of big asset managers. Plus they manage the biggest freaking mutual fund in the world, with great returns-46 bps on 235bn is $1bn annually in management fees, and that's just the total return fund.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

PIMCO is considered to be one of the best Bond Funds in the US. They are to Bonds as Peter Lynch was to the Magellin Fund at Fidelity. Some of the best investment minds of the last 40 years were not necessarily Hedge Fund gurus, and that's what you have here with PIMCO, Lynch, Gundlach and others.

The fact is structure is everything, parituclarly when you consider that they were founded in '71 as part of Pacific Mutual Life Insurance. If you're an investment arm under an insurance company, you have to follow strict guidlines. When they were finally independant of their insurance company overlords, they kept what worked instead of reorganizing into a proper hedge fund.

Plus, it's also easier to take in new money into funds when you are a mutual fund than it is as a Hedge Fund where LP rules are very strict in this manner.

 
losemind:
Is it easy to go back to other hedgefunds or launch my own fund after PIMCO?

Working at PIMCO, or any other place for that matter has little to do with putting you in a position to launch your own fund. Your ability to show that you have a money making strategy and the ability to convince ppl to hand over their money are far more relevant.

 

Um, PIMCO is a buyside fund.

To answer your question, if you want to be in fixed income, very few places are better than PIMCO. Work there for a few years, and you will have some great exit options. There's a reason why PIMCO is one of the most coveted places to work at, for the finance students at the top b-schools. You get to live in newport beach, make great money, and do interesting work.

 

Thank you! It's a fund not a hedgefund, how can I make great money?...

If PIMCO is really great, are there other funds that I should expand my search to? i.e. I am currently at a top IB and naturally my next step is hedgefunds, however because I am thinking of switching my fields so I have to consider funds also... What are the names of good funds like PIMCO that I should definitely submit my resume to? Thank you!

 

If I cannot land a good hedgefund job fast and have to consider other alternatives, are sell-side client-facing research roles good options? i.e. in the future I want to be able to work in the hedgefund industry and/or launch my own hedgefunds. However due to the Volcker rule, the street is littered with traders/quants that are from IB prop-desk... it's not that easy to find a great job... as an alternative, would sell-side client-facing research roles be good step-stones? I just want to expand my search universe because I probably don't want to go to bad hedgefunds hastily.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is-london-interbank-offer-rate-libor>LIBOR</a></span>:
Do you really work in the industry? Of course PIMCO is a good place to be. Good luck getting an interview.

My thoughts exactly.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jeremy
 

Sounds like a pretty legitimate question, so why is everyone giving him so much shit? PIMCO runs mutual funds after all, and I imagine the approach to managing a long-only portfolio is slightly different from the one used for a hedge fund. This guy makes a good point - assuming he's really on a prop desk at a bank, the next thing to shoot for would be running your own fund.

 

a) PIMCO runs funds other than mutual funds b) Mutual funds are allowed to short, and PIMCO was very publicly short treasuries recently (though there are a number of ways they could have expressed this position besides a cash short) c) PIMCO is one of if not the most prominent asset manager in the world, and he doesn't have an offer in hand, so it's kind of silly to essentially ask if they're "good enough" for him. d) "On a prop desk" =/= running his own book, he describes himself as pretty junior.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 
eleutheros:
They do recruit on the East Coast. I've seen PIMCO postings at my school.

Can you please tell me or PM me any schools you know they recruit at? I'm really trying to go out and at least talk to them once.

Also thanks to everyone else for your responses so far!

 

I know they recruit at Columbia, but I think this may be the first time they are doing so. Mostly for positions in Newport Beach (Product Summer Analyst, Portfolio Summer Analyst, and Credit Research Summer Analyst) and one position in either NYC or Newport Beach (Account Summer Analyst).

 

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