Harvard JD ---> BB Associate
Hi, I will be attending Harvard Law School in the fall.
I am thrilled about going to HLS and I am fascinated by the law but, like many of my brethren, I really want to be a banker. I would take the traditional route (analyst->MBA->associate) but my State University undergrad and music performance major (yea I know what was I thinking?) make being hired by a BB out of college all but impossible.
My question is this, do I have a shot of being hired at one of the BB banks while I'm at HLS for an associate position after I graduate? I'm currently a summer associate at a top M&A firm (yes I got a SA position before I started school) and I've taken basic accounting and finance classes at my undergrad (aced them). Thank you.
Do a dual-degree with HBS if you can. You'll also bypass being an Analyst that way.
Congrats on HLS btw.
Thank you, I plan to apply for the MBA but I doubt I will get into the program as I have no applicable work experience. A Harvard JD/MBA would probably qualify me to be Master of the Universe (a la Mitt Romney), if I could get it.
Do BB banks require you to be a MBA to get an associate position? I was always led to believe the MBA was more of a networking degree than anything else.
Several applicants between 0 and 1 year of experience are accepted every year to HBS. I'm not sure about the exact number though.
Nope, not required. But it does make it a lot easier to get the Associate position.
Also, if you're dead set on not going into law, why not request HLS to defer your admission for a year or two? That way you can get a couple years of work experience, possibly take the GMAT, and be in a better position for applying for dual-degree with HBS while you're at HLS.
If you're set on finance, then maybe take the year off and apply to MFin programs. The programs at Princeton, Berkeley, MIT, Columbia, and a few other schools have very, very good placement records. You can also read ANT's posts regarding these programs. I believe he's written several blogs about them.
Best,
Barry, is that you???
I wouldn't say I'm "deadset" on not being a lawyer. But to be frank, the biglaw partners I know and work with seem like miserable human beings. The work is also extremely tedious (at least at the low-levels) and the lock-step pay system gives you no motivation to work harder than anyone else (except for fear of being fired).
The strange thing is I really want to go to HLS because I know it will make me a more intelligent and analytical person. The subject matter is what interests me. But I feel like there is disconnect between what you learn in LS and what you do in practice. I've been following the markets since high school but gave up on my IB dream when I realized my HGPA wouldn't get me anywhere near a school that could get me the kind of IB job I'd want.
I know IB isn't a dream job. But I guess I figure, "if I'm going to be miserable, I might as well be rich and miserable".
Unfortunately taking a year off isn't an option for me and finding a job is next to impossible with my music degree. Would an easier path be to work a few years in M&A law and try to network into one of the banks? I'm afraid my UG degree will make people assume I can't count, even though I'm good enough with numbers for the kind of position I'd want.
You have obviously done your homework on Biglaw, but you have not done your homework on banking.
MDs are as miserable as the Biglaw partners of which you speak. And it's not the fast path to riches that you imagine. Unless you are connected deep to C-suite or Senatorial caliber people, your chances of making MD, where the money really begins to flow, are slim to nil. Oh yes, we will be peppered with exceptions as the smarmy college kids come on this thread and try to prove me wrong. But I've done it, seen it, and moved on.
Going into deep debt at HLS to get a banking job is a great way to make it into BB, especially if you come from an unprestigious state school -- but it is a retarded way to get rich.
Lastly:
"The strange thing is I really want to go to HLS because I know it will make me a more intelligent and analytical person. "
Comments like this convince me that lawyers are exactly as dumb as they seem. If you think going to HLS will make you more intelligent, you have a wrong concept of intelligence and Harvard.
"I'm afraid my UG degree will make people assume I can't count, even though I'm good enough with numbers for the kind of position I'd want."
If you could pass junior high algebra, your number skills are good enough for banking. Don't worry about that.
Maybe you're correct about HLS, I wouldn't know as this SA gig is the first "real job" I've ever worked. I worked as a professional musician (made about 40k a year naming my own hours and picking who I worked with) for two years before sending out my HLS app, so I'm not one of those people that swoon at the thought of making partner at Skadden (delusional). I prepared myself for douchebaggery but this is a bit much. I want to save a lot of money in about 15-20 years so I can retire, live very well, and get a PhD in music or something.
The chances at making the money I want in BigLaw are miniscule. I've always viewed IBanking as a meritocracy with great exit opportunities if you do well. At this point a want to find the best opportunity I can get with my HLS degree that is costing me so much money.
Just so you know before you become a lawyer and write all these super important documents it is "affect" not "effect" buddy
posting on an anonymous internet forum =/= writing super important legal documents
This thread is about my NOT becoming a lawyer btw, but thanks for the tip.
There's always" disconnect" between what u do in school and practice. Also, realize that entry-level (Jr.) analysts in IB are as "miserable" as they come: 18-hr/day shifts, to 6-days a week !
HLS degree is a better way to go than Pre-MBA Analyst or even post-MBA .
^ Wouldn't MBB care even more about his undergrad than even the top BBs?
My advice to you would be to put in all your effort in converting whatever work experience you have into a decently relevant internship. Then try to work something from there, and apply to B-school in a couple years.
Law School ---> Banking is a pretty stupid route, imo.
HLS makes the reboot possible.
Actually, HLS --> anything other than law puzzles the hell out of me. Perhaps if you fail the bar, you can make a virtue out of necessity.
"The chances at making the money I want in BigLaw are miniscule. I've always viewed IBanking as a meritocracy with great exit opportunities if you do well. "
"Interesting theory"
Please elaborate.
"Since you've walked away from your law career even before you began -- have you considered MBB?"
Yes I am considering consulting. The kind of job I want at MBB seems hard to get. I've heard there are very low offer rates for the interviews, so I don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket.
And I haven't "given up" on a legal career. I'm working at a law firm this summer and attending HLS. I just want to see how realistic a possibility a job in finance would be. I want to use this degree to get a job that a) makes real money and b) is intellectually stimulating. It being a legal position or not isn't an issue for me.
Hey op,
Can you explain to use what steps you took into getting in HLS!
thxies
I spent 4 months preparing for the LSAT, didn't take a class but scored at the high end of HLS median. I also had a high UGPA. Submitted an application. Phone interview. That's pretty much it.
how high of a gpa would 3.8 be enough?
x
It's very doable to get a banking job, but I don't think you'd be an associate without more prior experience---more like an analyst perhaps with an extra year under yo or something... another good route, which is reasonable since you're going to HLS right of school is to do as follows
UG->HLS-> 3-4 years top wall street law firm in M&A -> H/S/W MBA -> Banker starting at 30-31
obviously that would be a lot of school and be expensive, but it would also be baller --- especially if you're not worried about the tuition (family is paying, etc.)
Possible to break into banking (BB) with a top school JD? (Originally Posted: 10/15/2013)
Is it possible (or probable) to break into IB (BB) with a JD from a top 6 school?
What kind of grades do you need? I hear about "networking" but how?
I think thats way too long, let's assume he wouldn't be an Associate but an Analyst2. After another year his contract expires and he has to go do an MBA/look for another job, OR they give him the option to do another year as an Analyst and then get promoted to Associate without an MBA. Either way, its much faster than 3-4 years at a law firm...
Read this from Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/career-planning/career-paths/uplo…
Should give a little insight. But in short, yes it's possible but all up to you.
JD student applying to BB (Originally Posted: 12/26/2010)
I am a second year law student. If I wanted to apply to analyst/associate positions at BB's am I limited to the full time route? I noticed that almost all of these internships are for undergrad students or MBA students. I guess this is a little discouraging because from what I understand most full time positions are filled via the summer internship pool. Currently, I have an offer from a boutique to split time this summer between IB and hedge funds. Do you think I am better off continuing this route and applying to BBs later on down the road as an experienced hire or perhaps during the MBA process? I guess I want to make sure not to short change myself and cast a wide enough net; at the same time I don't want to kid myself at this point in my career.
Thanks!
haven't got any input but congrats on 174+ lsat and hls
Network.
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Thanks for the responses! I am at a T14. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer but after my experience working in house last summer at a financial services firm, I was really turned off by how the legal profession feels very much like a "sideline" player. I wouldn't mind doing an analyst position. I know this is a target for undergrads but frankly I didn't have the connection/interest/or academics when I graduated from college. If this is possible, what is the best route? I noticed that most of these internships are geared to current undergrads.
I was thinking as an alternative to getting into a BB immediately, I can keep working at this boutique. I have a good track record at the company from last semester, connections, etc. If I can work in compliance or maybe as an equity analyst, what are my chances of getting an associate position at a BB later on?
thanks for the responses guys
I do agree that alumnii networking is the way to go. However,i've emailed soooo many alumnii and they don't respond. They do have phone numbers listed but i am hesitant to call them especially because they aren't even responding to emails that i sent them to their personal accounts.
I was under the impression that some BBs do OCR at T14 law schools - is that not the case anymore?
the only school I've heard of having it is Yale. So should I just wait until next year (my last year) and apply directly to full time positions?
out of curiosity, is the legal market bad for t14's?
If you are in the top third you will have offers thrown at you. Easier said than done though. I am not. However I did have a callback while people with much better grades than me didn't get anything. So your experience varies I guess.
i once considered going to law school, however couldnt get into a t14 and was told not to bother with other schools that i was looking at (think chicago kent, loyola chicago, iowa, etc.) is a law degree from a non top school essentially worthless?
I really dont think you'll have BB associate offers "thrown" at you, even from a top 5 school.
That said, I think it'll make a big difference where you are. Top of t14, or bottom?
oh I was talking about law firm offers. I'm at a bottom T14. A law degree from a non top school is essentially worthless if you want to make a decent living. By decent I mean more than 75k. ANYWAY, back to BB. I'm beginning to think that I should just be happy with the offer I have. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that BB's are done for summer hiring anyway (even if I happened to qualify for a summer program)
There are a ton of former lawyers who lateral in or enter as associates whether its via a summer associate program btwn their second and third year or at some point following their JD. At BBs, most seem to be from top 10 programs, but the skillset of being a good IB associate (being anal, detailed oriented, etc) is what JDs seem to be good at...
Talk to career services people at your university's b school. Your problem is that you should have spent your summer internship at an investment bank and you are too late to recruit for that - in theory you should be eligible for full time associate recruiting - but harder w/o a summer experience. You might have to do a couple of years in corp law and then come in as a 3rd year associate/VP
when you say without a summer experience, do you mean a summer experience at a BB that you want to apply to for full time afterwards?
Yes, I mean a summer internship as an associate at an investment bank
Summer Associate BB recruiting is still on going, DOJs were this winter break though and you'll be massively behind the rest of the recruits.
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You're right on track to follow in Jim Cramer's shoes ;-) haha
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This is what Affirmative Action does: give a spot at the nation's top law school to idiots like him just because of his race. Think of the hard working Asian-American who had a better GPA than him who got rejected by HLS because of race.
Asians need to stand up to this unfairness and do something about it.
If you read my posts you would know my GPA was within median and my LSAT above median for Harvard. I had a shot with or without "Affirmative Action". If you want to start a flame war do it somewhere else.
You jelly, bitch?
Despite my username, you should actually attend HLS before you make such whack decisions. Oh and I was a music major too lol
You're correct, I don't need to decide until the end of 1L (next spring). I'm not deciding anything yet, I'm working at a law firm right now actually. Just trying to find out all of the doors that this degree will open for me.
Music FTW btw.
I think if you're preparing ahead at this stage, there's no reason you can't look at distressed/activist hedge funds. Dual degree with HBS would obviously be handy, given the networking opportunities, and instruction in finance. Pay isn't going to be bad either...
Yeah, focus on distressed funds and banks with big restructuring groups. You run into a lot of JDs in that space but I don't really know what the average career path looks like.
I'm interested in hedge funds, but I assumed I'd need some sort of finance experience to break in. I'm going to look into that. Thanks guys, your responses have been helpful.
An alumnus of my fraternity went from HLS--> BigLaw --> Associate @ Merrill Lynch, now works at Citadel so its definitely doable.
UG->HLS-> 3-4 years top wall street law firm in M&A -> H/S/W MBA -> Banker starting at 30-31
Alum did exactly this minus the MBA degree and probably a few more years in wall street law firm.
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Thanks. I was thinking you meant that, but wanted to make sure.
I got into 4 out of 6 of the 2nd tier top law schools (CCNMVP) and almost went to one of them - until I realized I wanted to work in finance.
I'd think your time would be better spent in an MSF program or, if you can leverage HLS, in worming into HBS. I shadowed a shit ton of BigLaw associates and found out quickly I'd hate law.
If you want to get into law school you need only 2 things: LSAT + GPA. I had a 170 LSAT and a 3.85 GPA from an Ivy. The applications are almost a formality.
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