I have a friend who got into second tier IB through networking/connections. However, he did not have the best of all the marks. He's close to finishing his second year and doesn't know if he'll be getting into any of the schools.
Since his GPA was kinda low.
He is worried about the same thing since he doesn't know what to do. He's hoping they call him back for the third year, although no guarantees so far.
What are the most common exit opps after 2 years of IB? (Originally Posted: 12/02/2014)
So I know PE and HF are the most sought after for IBers, but I would say most don't end up getting into a top PE shop. What are the other common exit opps? Is it just corporate finance? I know a lot of IBers and post MBA work in FP&A at tech startups.
For most groups, PE is the most common exit. HF exits are very group dependent; most banking groups send very few analysts to HFs, while at a few groups it is a very common exit (at one or two it's even more common than PE). Haven't been through the process yet but it sounds like top HF recruiting is more concentrated at a few groups than MF PE is.
The prevalence of non-finance exit opps also depends on the group and the makeup of the people coming into the analyst program. At a restructuring group, your typical analyst is someone who likes finance a lot and wants to make a career in the industry, and so almost everyone stays in finance. At a tech group on the West Coast, different story on average. But you could have people go into an industry like tech, join or form a startup, corporate development, MBA (not very common after just two years though)
Here's a solid DealBook article on where IB analysts go after their initial two-year stint.
Overview of the statistics from Vettery (covers 1400 analysts that started in 2012):
36% exited to PE
27.5% stay in the same group at the same bank
10.4% went to other banks
9.3% exited to HF
5.6% went to corp fin or business development
3.9% to tech startups
2.8% new group at same bank
2.2% to VC
My question is what happens to the last 2.3%? Bschool, bottom of the Hudson, another field or McDonald's manager? The possibilities are endless we must find out.
Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.
Experience obtained as an IB analyst is more applicable to PE (investing) than HF (trading)
Value-focused hedge funds would resent that classification...
Plenty of hedge funds invest on fundamentals and these types of funds recruit IB analysts. But for hedge funds, there isn't a need for a constant stream of analysts like there is in PE. For one, many people who go into hedge funds stay there longer than in PE; there isn't the same custom of leaving for an MBA. Second, there just isn't the need for an army of number crunchers. Thus the recruiting opportunities for HFs are not as robust and not as predictable. A fund may recruit one year and then not need anyone for the next year or two. Also, at least with certain funds, when they do recruit they do not feel pressured into hiring someone - they will give out one or two offers if they are impressed with someone, but if they decline, they won't go to the next person in line. So it's just a very different world than in IB/PE where you need to churn a certain number of analysts every year.
HF recruiting of bankers is much more group dependent than PE. The top hedge funds recruit at very few banking groups. And most banking groups send very few analysts to HF while those groups that receive the attention of the top funds send a high number or even the majority to funds.
Firstly there are just far fewer seats in HF than PE, especially when you consider only some HFs are relevant to IB analysts (long/short equity, distressed, event driven, merger arb, to name the main ones). You're less likely to see former IB analysts in macro, relative arb, quant, algo funds. Additionally, the HFs that hire from IB also hire entry level positions from ER, PE, and sometimes consulting, so that further reduces the number of seats for IB hires. PEs fill most of their seats with IB hires, and it's also a more junior-intensive business because there is more number crunching and far more process management.
Secondly, the churn rate in PE is higher. Large cap PE is still pretty brutal as an associate, and hours can easily be as bad / potentially worse than IB at times. So there's more of a need to replace people at the junior level fairly frequently. PE juniors also leave for MBAs, whereas this is less common in HFs. Also, HFs hire less often because they are very scalable (you don't necessarily need to increase headcount if AUM is growing).
If you are talking about prestige, Cerberus can be lumped in with Carlyle and the rest, but I would place them near the bottom of this elite group. Don't get me wrong, though - these guys are big players in PE.
OmicronTheta, How many threads are you going to start asking the same question that has been answered numerous times? Cerberus Capital is a top destination in the PE space. I guarantee they pay competitively with KKR, Carlyle and TPG. Call the person you're talking to at the firm (if you're even being considered there) and ask them how much they pay. Quit bumping your threads and starting new ones asking the same questions. It's elite and if you need convincing of this you should probably not be working in PE. Google search the firm and read some articles - get a clue.
nystateofmind, im not here for a pissing contest with you, im here to gather serious information, if you have a problem with this please leave me alone
Dude, chill. Stop with the multi-posts, 1 is enough.
First rule in the message board netiquette:
"Please do your best to avoid starting a thread on a topic that's already been discussed. Use the Search function or see the FAQ block on the right hand side of the screen. I know the Search function needs some improvement, but sometimes it actually works!"
freeloader, i apologize if i have broken any of the board rules. i have used the search function and have literally read all the posts on cerberus. i am trying to do my best to gather information so i can make a good career decision.
Blackstone gets the most publicity because Schwartzman is highly flambuoyant, because they have the most capital under management and raised the largest fund to date. Then, of course, the historic IPO.
KKR is of course the grand-daddy mega and has a very strong brand. Henry, like Steve, needs no last name to be identified in the finance world.
TPG is the quiet giant. They beat all the others in IRR for the past 15 years or so (I am quite sure of this but not 100%). Often a contrarian investor. Bondo and Coulter are press-shy and rarely give interviews and almost never appear in public. They don't even have a real website. Their brand is therefore the least known of the big 4.
Carlyle has the third strongest brand awareness behind Blackstone and KKR. Lots of publicity given their government ties. Although they've shied away from government relationships publicly in recent times, they are extremely well-connected internationally in political circles and attract top talent, top deals, top LPs. They absolutely belong in the highly exclusive cream of the crop group.
I would consider these 4 as the "HBS/Stanford GSB/Wharton" of the PE world as far as prestige.
Cerberus is definitely in the upper echelon but definitely not in the league of the above firms as far as prestige goes.
Actually breaker, they are here for all of our service. The forums are for people to ask questions and for others interested to answer. We are all here to spread our knowledge, not to disparage each other. Get a life!
A forum is a construct to host discussions for like-minded individuals. You wouldn't barrage people in real life with the same question over and over.
Further, in this thread you bag the first reply for not being specific. Your questions are horribly obtuse and ambiguous. What are you looking for? Top PE shops (and most positions in finance) don't go out of their way to disclose exact remuneration numbers. Employees of the listed funds have previously indicated the ballpark they are in.
This is just another 'rank and compare' thread with a bit of 'salary' sprinkled on top. It's been covered ad nauseum, search. The final blow is that you have asked it in a number of other threads in different forums, bumped old threads and hijacked others.
Not to mention Omicron that you've been a member of this board for less than 2 days. You've yet to "spread your knowledge" and have simply been extremely pushy looking for your answer. Be courteous and understand that you've added zero value thus far.
Seriously, you are really pathetic. If you don't want to answer my questions then don't but why come here and throw insults? I'm trying to find some serious information, please leave me alone.
From: OmnicronTheta
To: nystateofmind
Subject: jerk
Date: October 21, 2007 - 12:59pm
you're a real jerk. why don't you leave me alone? i don't want to hear from you if all you're going to do is throw around insults
Perfect example of you beeing way too repetitive my friend. No need for the double posts and bumps and PMs. Just ask your question (once) and wait for people to respond. You're questions are too vague and you're too pushy.
you all need to get some real lives. the majority of the people on this board have been helpful and many have given me good concrete information. there seems to be a bunch of you who basically live here and therefore are overly concerned with the board's customs and regulations. get a life and move on.
Anyone who's throwing a fit because he posted the same question more than once needs to take a step back and look in the mirror. Is it really so bad? Honestly, let's be serious here.
And if you disagree with me here, feel free to hit the "Caps Lock" button and unleash the fury.
There was a really good article about Cerberus in Fortune magazine, believe it or not. You can look it up. Says the offices are really barren. The culture is pretty tough, according to the magazine, but then again, you're not going in there to make friends. Very goal and success oriented. Really respected in its space for what it is. If you get a job there, you can't go wrong.
Life after I-Banking (Originally Posted: 05/30/2006)
Does anyone have a story tale about career changes? Like the banker who became a musiscian? Did anyone become a successful entrepreneur? Anything fun and promising to make us dream at the work place of more prosperous and promising futures!
IBD Monkey Post 2 years (Originally Posted: 04/04/2010)
We all know the top IBD monkeys go onto PE, what about the rest? Do the other ones just kind of vanish into working for GE and earning less than they did as an analyst in IBD?
Ok. So I have been reading multiple threads on here and think I've gotten a good picture of IB and exit options to the buyside. Most prestigious buyside firms don't recruit out of undergrad, and if they do, it is very hard to get those jobs. So most people go into IB. And if you can land a job with GS/MS/elite boutique, then you'll have headhunters looking to place you into a mega PE fund, or hedge fund. Elite buyside firms have a preference for talent in IBD. Is this about right?
what other options are there after investment banking? (Originally Posted: 02/06/2008)
My goal is to get a ft ib analyst position in the fall but it doesn't look like i'll be getting a summer analyst offer from a BB. What are some of my other options? I know everyone mentions MM and boutiques but those are pretty hard to find too.
Can I find summer internships in finance if I've never had a finance job (no accounting knowledge, etc)? How about private equity/hedge funds?
Or MBA and then more banking, if you're that crazy....I think I might just be crazy enough to do that, provided I don't get fired, forced to resign, get run over by a car, jump off the roof, or get hit by some MD's flying blackberry before the 2 years is up.
"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-
What do most people pursue after investment banking? I know most analysts finish up their 2 (maybe 3) years and head back to b-school, but what about the folks that finish up 2-3 years as an associate...what do they end up doing?
Most analysts don't go back to b-school after 3 years, they either pursue fields like private equity, hedge funds, or corporate development. Or they try and get the associate promotion after a 3rd year (less common), or try to get into something like sales & trading.
Associates are hired with the expectation that they will be staying the 3-4 years until they are bumped to VP.
I keep reading about all the hours and the burn out rate in I-Banking.
1. Is there a high turnover of people?
2. What type of jobs or industries do people enter after I-Banking?
1) yes. some of the turnover is attributable to the favorable market conditions--meaning lots of higher paying, more rewarding private equity and hedge funds jobs available--and the rest due to the grind of the banking life. in my group at my former bulge bracket employer, over half of the second year analysts bolted before October of their second year.
2) private equity, hedge funds, corporate strategy/development, investment management, equity research--a range sectors, basically anything. the above are the top ones that come to mind
Analyst programs are usually 2-3 with very few being asked to stay on as associates so the rotation is constant. Plus you always get people who were not cut out for banking leaving randomly throughout the year.
You also see more senior people going from bank to bank as well (depends on who is paying well).
Having IB experience position you fairly well to go into just about any other area of finance since you use a wide variety of skills that are relatively easily transferable.
I’ve also been hearing of a lot of bankers moving to industries like advertising/marketing, law, tech. I suppose it’s all in how good you are at showing the employer how your skills translate to the job at hand, which is basically true for any job you’re applying to I guess.
how many of you ibankers intend on staying in the field for the next 10 years or so?? I'm planning on getting out within 2-3 years to get into education (i plan on becoming a public school teacher)....
Most go to PE/HF/VC/corp dev afterwards, though I've definitely heard of people doing education, starting companies and pursuing other less common careers after IBD.
I'm guessing that very, very few people on this Board actually intend to stay in the field for the next 10 years. Most just use it as a stepping stone.
Out of curiosity, why are you thinking of doing banking/already doing banking and then becoming a public school teacher? Sounds like an interesting background but would be curious to hear your motivations.
well really...i wanted to do my part for the community...either i might become a public school teacher...or i might end up working for one of those education firms like edison schools that helps manage public schools...heard of it? i hear they pay well...not as well as ibanking but the job is also good...and im going to like what i do
well...i personally wouldn't want to spend three to four more years waiting to become VP...and besides it can take longer than that...and if you want to become an associate the traditional way, its two years for MBA...and then an associate...and then four years as an associate to become VP...
Post IB Career Options? (Originally Posted: 03/06/2012)
I worked in IB out of college at a boutique for about 1.5 years then decided that it was not for me.
Any suggestions for career options from here? I understand that most PE/VC/hedge funds look for at least 2 years of experience. Does that mean I'm screwed?
That's actually a really elegant way to put it. If you beat yourself mentally it's over. You can do whatever you want to do, it just might take a bit of time. You need to build your personal brand, or sell the shit out of yourself. Meet people, make them want to meet you/talk to you.
OP, are you saying that you are unemployed right now? What is your current status?
It is always more difficult to look for a job when you don't have one vs when you do have one, as you're not really in a position of strength. That said, the same rules apply.
What do you want to do? You don't really specify...
Contact recruiters and start calling up people at companies you'd be interested in working at. Personally, I use linkedin, people seem to be very responsive if you're genuine.
Jimage: yes I am currently unemployed. I moved from CA to NY after leaving my analyst position
I am leaning toward corporate development, but i understand that it is hard to break into because there are rarely any postings on job boards. any advice on what to do there?
My friend is a Vice President in I-Banking. He is up for a promotion to a Senior VP. He doesn't want to take up a Senior VP position since he says that one needs to bring in a lot of business to the firm and travel is hectic. Is this true?
Do most people exit I-Banking even with such top pays? Where do they go if they exit I-Baking?
I am asking this because I am considering switching careers to I-Banking and if I have to exit it in a few years, then I see no point getting into I-Banking.
I believe it is true that once you go past the VP level you become much more directly responsible for bringing business into the firm/leveraging your network, which is appealing for some people but not everyone.
is your friend you? and is your friend not in banking yet? should your friend take one step at a time? probably
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
On the one hand, you have a great point that if you intend to leave banking, it may not be worth it to do it in the short term. On the other hand, you don't.
Entirely depends on what you think you may want to do after. For example, tons of people get into banking with the specific idea of leaving in the not-to-distant future to do PE (for which banking is basically a prereq, excluding other ways to get in like consulting, or politics if you're Rahm Emmanuel; but this is usually at the analyst level). If that's what you want to do, it makes sense to do the banking thing.
But if you think you're going to want to do something entirely different, it probably makes less sense because so much of your compensation is paid as future earnings you might potentially realize as a result of your banking experience (i.e., as a junior banker, while you make some decent cash, you're really paid in "experience" you can leverage to get jobs that suck less and pay more later; as a senior banker, you might literally be paid in comp that vests in three years). So if you don't stay in banking, or take a sweet buyside gig, you're probably leaving something on the table.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't recommend getting into banking haphazardly. It's no a job you can just cruise into / through only getting your feet wet.
I've never heard of a VP refusing to take a promotion because they don't want the next level of responsibility. The types of people who stick it out in IB are often those that dream about being an MD. Sure, the next logical step for this person may be to start sourcing deal flow, but after ~10 years of banking you ought to be prepared for such a task. This is an up-or-out job and anyone that has worked in banking knows it.
CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
I guess the question then is how many people who start out as Associates and move up to VPs realy become MD's or have the skill to become one and bring enough business. I assume Banking is a pyramind structure and only a few survive to get to the very top?
That will never happen. May as well become a bar tender today.
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
Sounds like a pretty random path to take - why would you go IB analyst to consulting back to IB? Why not consulting to IB associate? Then buyside, back to IB?
>Incoming Ash Ketchum, Pokemon Master
>Literally a problem, solve for both X and Y, please and thank you.
>Hugh Myron: "Are there any guides on here for getting a top girlfriend? Think banker/lawyer/doctor. I really don't want to go mid-tier"
I'm pretty young still about to enter college. I really would like to do IB, but I also feel the urge to try consulting as well. At this point I don't want to just stick to one. I would also want to go buy side after IB because it seems interesting as well. However, I feel after a certain amount of time whether it be 5 or 15 years I would long for something greater such as politics, leadership position at IB or something of that nature.... Just looking for thoughts on this.
You haven't even entered college yet but think you know what you want. Get into a target, get good grades, intern at a bank and then an MBB, and then decide if either of them feel good to you. Planning your future to such degree without any genuine experience and only reading posts and hearing other people talk will hurt you in the long run. Just strive to work as hard as you can and be successful, by whatever metric it may be.
Wow this guy is ridiculous. Still a senior in a high school, and by checking his post history, has been giving advice to college students and even grown professionals on their career. This forum shouldn't be about high schoolers giving advice to others when they have virtually zero experience.
Some thoughts on your question though: I think almost anything is possible (key word almost), but there are established paths.
1) BB IB -> Consulting seems extremely rare, or to some extent a waste of time because you would have to start out still at an entry level for lateral consultants at MBB. BB IB -> to some strategy/buyside (PE/HF) role would be more logical.
2) MBA -> IB Associate is fine and extremely doable if you end up at a good b-school. But IB Associate to a good/reputable PE fund is almost unheard of or extremely rare. So your "order" is messed up.
If your goal is to experience everything then go into a leadership position in either business or politics, the most common seen path is to excel at something and reach a senior level in either IB/PE/Corporate. So there is no point in moving around so much back and forth.
Just typing all of this makes me realize you are at least 5+ years removed from a full time job and 7-9+ years away from B-school. Everything can change, so keep your mind open and start thinking about this when you need to.
I've heard that headhunters typically reach out to first years set up interviews a year in advance (I assume this is correct?). Since I am at a MM I'm guessing I probably won't be able to sit back and wait for the calls.
What is the path I should be taking to proactively find jobs for after my 2nd year?
There seems to be a lot of coverage regarding career path for BB guys and for breaking in to IB but I'm not sure what to expect being in MM. Thanks guys.
In BB you usually start hearing from headhunters right after January. People start locking up offers between then and June...usually the best firms (KKR, Blackstone and such) start earlier and the smaller PE shops will recruit later. I'm not sure about the process for MM, but that's the timeline you should shoot for.
You should begin reaching out to headhunters on your own. But don't just rely on the headhunters to get you a job, fall back on what possibly got you to the bank in the first place - your network. Call alumni, friends, and other colleagues at the bank. Since you only have a two year contract and few analysts are promoted to third year (even fewer to Associate) it is expected that you will be looking for post analyst opportunities. People want to see you get a good job because it helps with recruitment and deals (who better to send a CIM to then a former employee?) Also, your firm will probably send around select opportunities too.
and yes you can reach out to head hunters..I've worked with Oxbridge Group and Search One, I'd do a quick google to see if there's anyone else out there
FYI i am NOT in a "2-year program", many of the analysts at my bank stay on for 3rd year and get promoted if they want to. but it seems like a dead end to me so although i like my team and the work, i'm just trying to make sure i can continue my career path
that said, there probably isn't any internal help from HR to get placed elsewhere. are there specific head hunters that manage IB exits into PE/consulting or any head hunter will do the job? i'm fresh from UG so although i know the OCR process really well, i know nothing about find/dealing with head hunters.
(i'm a 1st year right now, trying to get this info since i've been told spring of 1st year is when it needs to happen). thanks again guys, your advice has been great so far.
First year's at BBs have already been contacted by head hunters, with initial screening interviews already set up as well. If I were you I would start earlier rather than later.
not really that interested in lateraling since i really like my group and the work at this point. i'm mostly looking elsewhere for after 2nd year (or at least 1 year).
so it sounds like from the last few posts that if i haven't been contacted i won't? and i should reach out to head hunters myself?
if that's the case, anyone have any additional names for me (NYC area, PE focused)
Why are no analysts interested in moving up in banking? (Originally Posted: 07/09/2011)
Buyside basically has two benefits - better hours and higher pay, but if an analyst can get a promote to associate without going through business school, they'll have an extra two years ahead of their PE/HF friends (who almost have to go to b-school)
so they'll be a VP in banking while their friends are associates in PE, which sounds pretty comparable. it also seems much easier to become VP at a good bulge bracket / top boutique group than to become a post-MBA associate at megafund like Blackstone or a top MM like Madison Dearborn/TA/Summit. plus for (very) superficial reasons, a girl is more willing to talk to the guy from Morgan than the guy from Warburg. so why little interest?
You have clearly never worked in banking. Buyside has better hours and better pay (that makes up for the 2 year gap), but in my mind the real difference is that you become the client. No more 1am emails. No more sucking up to some jerkoff because you're trying to win a mandate. Much more minimal sucking up to some jerkoff that wants the font size on the document changed. That's why the buyside is better - much less bullshit. That's why nobody wants to stick it out in banking - banking sucks.
- Capt K -
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
CaptK does an associate at a mega-cap/large MM PE (BX/Madison Dearborn) firm have better hours / more meaningful work than a VP at a bulge bracket? Excuse my ignorance, just asking because while PE associate > IBD associate, is PE / HF that much better that PE associate > banking VP at the same age?
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most go to business school
They get drunk enough to go to the hospital in celebration.
I have a friend who got into second tier IB through networking/connections. However, he did not have the best of all the marks. He's close to finishing his second year and doesn't know if he'll be getting into any of the schools.
Since his GPA was kinda low.
He is worried about the same thing since he doesn't know what to do. He's hoping they call him back for the third year, although no guarantees so far.
What are the most common exit opps after 2 years of IB? (Originally Posted: 12/02/2014)
So I know PE and HF are the most sought after for IBers, but I would say most don't end up getting into a top PE shop. What are the other common exit opps? Is it just corporate finance? I know a lot of IBers and post MBA work in FP&A at tech startups.
did you just answer ur own question
Haha exactly.
For most groups, PE is the most common exit. HF exits are very group dependent; most banking groups send very few analysts to HFs, while at a few groups it is a very common exit (at one or two it's even more common than PE). Haven't been through the process yet but it sounds like top HF recruiting is more concentrated at a few groups than MF PE is.
The prevalence of non-finance exit opps also depends on the group and the makeup of the people coming into the analyst program. At a restructuring group, your typical analyst is someone who likes finance a lot and wants to make a career in the industry, and so almost everyone stays in finance. At a tech group on the West Coast, different story on average. But you could have people go into an industry like tech, join or form a startup, corporate development, MBA (not very common after just two years though)
IB Analyst Exit Ops (Originally Posted: 12/04/2014)
Here's a solid DealBook article on where IB analysts go after their initial two-year stint.
Overview of the statistics from Vettery (covers 1400 analysts that started in 2012): 36% exited to PE 27.5% stay in the same group at the same bank 10.4% went to other banks 9.3% exited to HF 5.6% went to corp fin or business development 3.9% to tech startups 2.8% new group at same bank 2.2% to VC
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/private-equity-is-top-choice-of-…
My question is what happens to the last 2.3%? Bschool, bottom of the Hudson, another field or McDonald's manager? The possibilities are endless we must find out.
Some people end up unemployed.
Pretty interesting, you wouldn't guess that many stay in IB based on what you read here.
Exactly what I thought. Seems that not everyone is that obsessed about buyside exits like the WSO bankers.
Most people posting here are college students.
can anybody comment of the discrepency between HF and PE exits? Are there really that many more PE jobs?
Experience obtained as an IB analyst is more applicable to PE (investing) than HF (trading)
Value-focused hedge funds would resent that classification...
Plenty of hedge funds invest on fundamentals and these types of funds recruit IB analysts. But for hedge funds, there isn't a need for a constant stream of analysts like there is in PE. For one, many people who go into hedge funds stay there longer than in PE; there isn't the same custom of leaving for an MBA. Second, there just isn't the need for an army of number crunchers. Thus the recruiting opportunities for HFs are not as robust and not as predictable. A fund may recruit one year and then not need anyone for the next year or two. Also, at least with certain funds, when they do recruit they do not feel pressured into hiring someone - they will give out one or two offers if they are impressed with someone, but if they decline, they won't go to the next person in line. So it's just a very different world than in IB/PE where you need to churn a certain number of analysts every year.
HF recruiting of bankers is much more group dependent than PE. The top hedge funds recruit at very few banking groups. And most banking groups send very few analysts to HF while those groups that receive the attention of the top funds send a high number or even the majority to funds.
Firstly there are just far fewer seats in HF than PE, especially when you consider only some HFs are relevant to IB analysts (long/short equity, distressed, event driven, merger arb, to name the main ones). You're less likely to see former IB analysts in macro, relative arb, quant, algo funds. Additionally, the HFs that hire from IB also hire entry level positions from ER, PE, and sometimes consulting, so that further reduces the number of seats for IB hires. PEs fill most of their seats with IB hires, and it's also a more junior-intensive business because there is more number crunching and far more process management.
Secondly, the churn rate in PE is higher. Large cap PE is still pretty brutal as an associate, and hours can easily be as bad / potentially worse than IB at times. So there's more of a need to replace people at the junior level fairly frequently. PE juniors also leave for MBAs, whereas this is less common in HFs. Also, HFs hire less often because they are very scalable (you don't necessarily need to increase headcount if AUM is growing).
I'd say tech startups and corp fin/BD should be combined? most analysts who go to tech companies do corp fin there.
Another interesting piece of the Vettery study regarding analyst exits. Poor UBS guys..
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/192835/goldman-morgan-stanley-j…
Top Destinations After I-Banking? (Originally Posted: 10/20/2007)
What are the top PE/HF destinations after I-banking? How does the comp compare between them?
I heard KKR gives a 1 mill contract over 2 years?
How does Cerberus Capital Management fit in?
that kind of "1 in 2" comp may have just been a result of the buyout craze. [or KKRaze! wow, i'm going to pat myself on the back for that one]
the "top" PE destinations are obviously the top ranked PE funds, like TPG and Carlyle.
comp in the HF world and the PE world is pretty much limitless, but both are riskier than certain types of IBD work.
a lot of your answers could be found by searching old threads here.
thats not specific at all Mark Klein..i appreciate you responding but people are on here to get real information
also the info is not on the other threads
i am looking for specific information about Cerberus Capital management and how it relates to funds like Caryle, TPG, Bstone
If you are talking about prestige, Cerberus can be lumped in with Carlyle and the rest, but I would place them near the bottom of this elite group. Don't get me wrong, though - these guys are big players in PE.
OmicronTheta, How many threads are you going to start asking the same question that has been answered numerous times? Cerberus Capital is a top destination in the PE space. I guarantee they pay competitively with KKR, Carlyle and TPG. Call the person you're talking to at the firm (if you're even being considered there) and ask them how much they pay. Quit bumping your threads and starting new ones asking the same questions. It's elite and if you need convincing of this you should probably not be working in PE. Google search the firm and read some articles - get a clue.
nystateofmind, im not here for a pissing contest with you, im here to gather serious information, if you have a problem with this please leave me alone
Dude, chill. Stop with the multi-posts, 1 is enough.
First rule in the message board netiquette: "Please do your best to avoid starting a thread on a topic that's already been discussed. Use the Search function or see the FAQ block on the right hand side of the screen. I know the Search function needs some improvement, but sometimes it actually works!"
I suggest you read it.
freeloader, i apologize if i have broken any of the board rules. i have used the search function and have literally read all the posts on cerberus. i am trying to do my best to gather information so i can make a good career decision.
You obviously have a lot to learn about dealing with people.
how is that helpful?
My honest opinion on the prestige pecking order of the top large/mega funds:
PE gods: Blackstone, KKR, TPG, Carlyle in a tie.
Then everyone else.
Blackstone gets the most publicity because Schwartzman is highly flambuoyant, because they have the most capital under management and raised the largest fund to date. Then, of course, the historic IPO.
KKR is of course the grand-daddy mega and has a very strong brand. Henry, like Steve, needs no last name to be identified in the finance world.
TPG is the quiet giant. They beat all the others in IRR for the past 15 years or so (I am quite sure of this but not 100%). Often a contrarian investor. Bondo and Coulter are press-shy and rarely give interviews and almost never appear in public. They don't even have a real website. Their brand is therefore the least known of the big 4.
Carlyle has the third strongest brand awareness behind Blackstone and KKR. Lots of publicity given their government ties. Although they've shied away from government relationships publicly in recent times, they are extremely well-connected internationally in political circles and attract top talent, top deals, top LPs. They absolutely belong in the highly exclusive cream of the crop group.
I would consider these 4 as the "HBS/Stanford GSB/Wharton" of the PE world as far as prestige.
Cerberus is definitely in the upper echelon but definitely not in the league of the above firms as far as prestige goes.
It wasn't intended to be.
Forums aren't cash machines, they aren't here for your service. Maybe that will be a little more helpful?
Actually breaker, they are here for all of our service. The forums are for people to ask questions and for others interested to answer. We are all here to spread our knowledge, not to disparage each other. Get a life!
I appreciate your input, I really do.
A forum is a construct to host discussions for like-minded individuals. You wouldn't barrage people in real life with the same question over and over.
Further, in this thread you bag the first reply for not being specific. Your questions are horribly obtuse and ambiguous. What are you looking for? Top PE shops (and most positions in finance) don't go out of their way to disclose exact remuneration numbers. Employees of the listed funds have previously indicated the ballpark they are in.
This is just another 'rank and compare' thread with a bit of 'salary' sprinkled on top. It's been covered ad nauseum, search. The final blow is that you have asked it in a number of other threads in different forums, bumped old threads and hijacked others.
Bring back tbroker...
layoff and quit being a jerk
Not to mention Omicron that you've been a member of this board for less than 2 days. You've yet to "spread your knowledge" and have simply been extremely pushy looking for your answer. Be courteous and understand that you've added zero value thus far.
Seriously, you are really pathetic. If you don't want to answer my questions then don't but why come here and throw insults? I'm trying to find some serious information, please leave me alone.
From: OmnicronTheta To: nystateofmind Subject: jerk Date: October 21, 2007 - 12:59pm
you're a real jerk. why don't you leave me alone? i don't want to hear from you if all you're going to do is throw around insults
Perfect example of you beeing way too repetitive my friend. No need for the double posts and bumps and PMs. Just ask your question (once) and wait for people to respond. You're questions are too vague and you're too pushy.
This thread was hilariously disastrous.
you all need to get some real lives. the majority of the people on this board have been helpful and many have given me good concrete information. there seems to be a bunch of you who basically live here and therefore are overly concerned with the board's customs and regulations. get a life and move on.
Anyone who's throwing a fit because he posted the same question more than once needs to take a step back and look in the mirror. Is it really so bad? Honestly, let's be serious here.
And if you disagree with me here, feel free to hit the "Caps Lock" button and unleash the fury.
lol kiddie fights on wsoasis.com
mark klein, I assume you're the psychiatrist- got anything to say on this rather typical behavior?
thanks TheKing, appreciate the sentiment
is there anyone else who could please provide some info about Cerberus' culture/pay/prestige?
Thanks!
There was a really good article about Cerberus in Fortune magazine, believe it or not. You can look it up. Says the offices are really barren. The culture is pretty tough, according to the magazine, but then again, you're not going in there to make friends. Very goal and success oriented. Really respected in its space for what it is. If you get a job there, you can't go wrong.
Life after I-Banking (Originally Posted: 05/30/2006)
Does anyone have a story tale about career changes? Like the banker who became a musiscian? Did anyone become a successful entrepreneur? Anything fun and promising to make us dream at the work place of more prosperous and promising futures!
[ ]
bump
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/life-after-investment-banking
thread even has same title too
holy shit just noticed the thread's from '06 lol
IBD Monkey Post 2 years (Originally Posted: 04/04/2010)
We all know the top IBD monkeys go onto PE, what about the rest? Do the other ones just kind of vanish into working for GE and earning less than they did as an analyst in IBD?
Two words: search function.
IB and Exit Ops (Originally Posted: 08/16/2011)
Ok. So I have been reading multiple threads on here and think I've gotten a good picture of IB and exit options to the buyside. Most prestigious buyside firms don't recruit out of undergrad, and if they do, it is very hard to get those jobs. So most people go into IB. And if you can land a job with GS/MS/elite boutique, then you'll have headhunters looking to place you into a mega PE fund, or hedge fund. Elite buyside firms have a preference for talent in IBD. Is this about right?
Spot on.
what other options are there after investment banking? (Originally Posted: 02/06/2008)
My goal is to get a ft ib analyst position in the fall but it doesn't look like i'll be getting a summer analyst offer from a BB. What are some of my other options? I know everyone mentions MM and boutiques but those are pretty hard to find too.
Can I find summer internships in finance if I've never had a finance job (no accounting knowledge, etc)? How about private equity/hedge funds?
bump
What Do I-Bankers Want to Do After 2 Years? (Originally Posted: 04/27/2007)
Is Private Equity and Hedge Funds what the mass majority of I-Bankers end up doing after 2 years? Or is their something else?
They jump off the roof due to stress and abuse.
Take over family properties and build it up. Leave family business (active management) to parents!! Yea!!
divorce their wife
and i thought i was the only smart ass on this board, haha. Any real answers?
Private equity, HF, or Corp Development are the main options.
Corp Development? What exactly is that?
search
Or MBA and then more banking, if you're that crazy....I think I might just be crazy enough to do that, provided I don't get fired, forced to resign, get run over by a car, jump off the roof, or get hit by some MD's flying blackberry before the 2 years is up.
Post IB Path (Originally Posted: 07/20/2006)
What do most people pursue after investment banking? I know most analysts finish up their 2 (maybe 3) years and head back to b-school, but what about the folks that finish up 2-3 years as an associate...what do they end up doing?
Most analysts don't go back to b-school after 3 years, they either pursue fields like private equity, hedge funds, or corporate development. Or they try and get the associate promotion after a 3rd year (less common), or try to get into something like sales & trading.
Associates are hired with the expectation that they will be staying the 3-4 years until they are bumped to VP.
pump gas in hawaii
After iBanking (Originally Posted: 06/13/2006)
I keep reading about all the hours and the burn out rate in I-Banking. 1. Is there a high turnover of people? 2. What type of jobs or industries do people enter after I-Banking?
1) yes. some of the turnover is attributable to the favorable market conditions--meaning lots of higher paying, more rewarding private equity and hedge funds jobs available--and the rest due to the grind of the banking life. in my group at my former bulge bracket employer, over half of the second year analysts bolted before October of their second year.
2) private equity, hedge funds, corporate strategy/development, investment management, equity research--a range sectors, basically anything. the above are the top ones that come to mind
Analyst programs are usually 2-3 with very few being asked to stay on as associates so the rotation is constant. Plus you always get people who were not cut out for banking leaving randomly throughout the year.
You also see more senior people going from bank to bank as well (depends on who is paying well).
I heard that iBankers place well into auditing.
Having IB experience position you fairly well to go into just about any other area of finance since you use a wide variety of skills that are relatively easily transferable.
I’ve also been hearing of a lot of bankers moving to industries like advertising/marketing, law, tech. I suppose it’s all in how good you are at showing the employer how your skills translate to the job at hand, which is basically true for any job you’re applying to I guess.
ibanking exit (Originally Posted: 12/05/2007)
how many of you ibankers intend on staying in the field for the next 10 years or so?? I'm planning on getting out within 2-3 years to get into education (i plan on becoming a public school teacher)....
Most go to PE/HF/VC/corp dev afterwards, though I've definitely heard of people doing education, starting companies and pursuing other less common careers after IBD.
I'm guessing that very, very few people on this Board actually intend to stay in the field for the next 10 years. Most just use it as a stepping stone.
Out of curiosity, why are you thinking of doing banking/already doing banking and then becoming a public school teacher? Sounds like an interesting background but would be curious to hear your motivations.
well really...i wanted to do my part for the community...either i might become a public school teacher...or i might end up working for one of those education firms like edison schools that helps manage public schools...heard of it? i hear they pay well...not as well as ibanking but the job is also good...and im going to like what i do
Who does banking for anything other than the exit ops?
To say that you could hack it...
To hack it.
so its not worth it then to get promoted to associate and be on track for VP?
well...i personally wouldn't want to spend three to four more years waiting to become VP...and besides it can take longer than that...and if you want to become an associate the traditional way, its two years for MBA...and then an associate...and then four years as an associate to become VP...
Post IB Career Options? (Originally Posted: 03/06/2012)
I worked in IB out of college at a boutique for about 1.5 years then decided that it was not for me.
Any suggestions for career options from here? I understand that most PE/VC/hedge funds look for at least 2 years of experience. Does that mean I'm screwed?
What are some other options besides that?
Thank you!
network, sell yourself, pound the pavement. you are screwed if you think you are
That's actually a really elegant way to put it. If you beat yourself mentally it's over. You can do whatever you want to do, it just might take a bit of time. You need to build your personal brand, or sell the shit out of yourself. Meet people, make them want to meet you/talk to you.
Network, Network, Network...there is no perfect formula
OP, are you saying that you are unemployed right now? What is your current status?
It is always more difficult to look for a job when you don't have one vs when you do have one, as you're not really in a position of strength. That said, the same rules apply.
What do you want to do? You don't really specify...
Contact recruiters and start calling up people at companies you'd be interested in working at. Personally, I use linkedin, people seem to be very responsive if you're genuine.
Jimage: yes I am currently unemployed. I moved from CA to NY after leaving my analyst position
I am leaning toward corporate development, but i understand that it is hard to break into because there are rarely any postings on job boards. any advice on what to do there?
Network, Network, Network...there is no perfect formula
having just recently moved to NY, any advice on networking besides contacting the firms im interested in and establishing a relationship that way?
glocap.com start there. you have to move fast because the longer you're unemployed the worse it looks
Exiting I-banking (Originally Posted: 11/23/2012)
My friend is a Vice President in I-Banking. He is up for a promotion to a Senior VP. He doesn't want to take up a Senior VP position since he says that one needs to bring in a lot of business to the firm and travel is hectic. Is this true?
Do most people exit I-Banking even with such top pays? Where do they go if they exit I-Baking?
I am asking this because I am considering switching careers to I-Banking and if I have to exit it in a few years, then I see no point getting into I-Banking.
I believe it is true that once you go past the VP level you become much more directly responsible for bringing business into the firm/leveraging your network, which is appealing for some people but not everyone.
is your friend you? and is your friend not in banking yet? should your friend take one step at a time? probably
On the one hand, you have a great point that if you intend to leave banking, it may not be worth it to do it in the short term. On the other hand, you don't.
Entirely depends on what you think you may want to do after. For example, tons of people get into banking with the specific idea of leaving in the not-to-distant future to do PE (for which banking is basically a prereq, excluding other ways to get in like consulting, or politics if you're Rahm Emmanuel; but this is usually at the analyst level). If that's what you want to do, it makes sense to do the banking thing.
But if you think you're going to want to do something entirely different, it probably makes less sense because so much of your compensation is paid as future earnings you might potentially realize as a result of your banking experience (i.e., as a junior banker, while you make some decent cash, you're really paid in "experience" you can leverage to get jobs that suck less and pay more later; as a senior banker, you might literally be paid in comp that vests in three years). So if you don't stay in banking, or take a sweet buyside gig, you're probably leaving something on the table.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't recommend getting into banking haphazardly. It's no a job you can just cruise into / through only getting your feet wet.
I've never heard of a VP refusing to take a promotion because they don't want the next level of responsibility. The types of people who stick it out in IB are often those that dream about being an MD. Sure, the next logical step for this person may be to start sourcing deal flow, but after ~10 years of banking you ought to be prepared for such a task. This is an up-or-out job and anyone that has worked in banking knows it.
I guess the question then is how many people who start out as Associates and move up to VPs realy become MD's or have the skill to become one and bring enough business. I assume Banking is a pyramind structure and only a few survive to get to the very top?
Exit Opportunities from BB IB (Originally Posted: 01/29/2015)
Hypothetically speaking,
Is it possible to go from BB IB analyst for two years to consulting then to MBA. Also after MBA, BB IB associate to HF/VC/PE?
After a few years at HF/VC/PE is it possible to go into politics, or a leadership position at an IB? Not CEO, but something about MD?
Thanks
Above* MD
Hypothetically, yes. Hypothetically, I could also win the lottery too, though.
That will never happen. May as well become a bar tender today.
Sounds like a pretty random path to take - why would you go IB analyst to consulting back to IB? Why not consulting to IB associate? Then buyside, back to IB?
What.....
haha kids got dreams at least
y'all responding to a troll
Or someone who was denied an IB associate offer
I'm pretty young still about to enter college. I really would like to do IB, but I also feel the urge to try consulting as well. At this point I don't want to just stick to one. I would also want to go buy side after IB because it seems interesting as well. However, I feel after a certain amount of time whether it be 5 or 15 years I would long for something greater such as politics, leadership position at IB or something of that nature.... Just looking for thoughts on this.
Tha'ts what internships are for
You haven't even entered college yet but think you know what you want. Get into a target, get good grades, intern at a bank and then an MBB, and then decide if either of them feel good to you. Planning your future to such degree without any genuine experience and only reading posts and hearing other people talk will hurt you in the long run. Just strive to work as hard as you can and be successful, by whatever metric it may be.
Wow this guy is ridiculous. Still a senior in a high school, and by checking his post history, has been giving advice to college students and even grown professionals on their career. This forum shouldn't be about high schoolers giving advice to others when they have virtually zero experience.
Some thoughts on your question though: I think almost anything is possible (key word almost), but there are established paths.
1) BB IB -> Consulting seems extremely rare, or to some extent a waste of time because you would have to start out still at an entry level for lateral consultants at MBB. BB IB -> to some strategy/buyside (PE/HF) role would be more logical. 2) MBA -> IB Associate is fine and extremely doable if you end up at a good b-school. But IB Associate to a good/reputable PE fund is almost unheard of or extremely rare. So your "order" is messed up.
If your goal is to experience everything then go into a leadership position in either business or politics, the most common seen path is to excel at something and reach a senior level in either IB/PE/Corporate. So there is no point in moving around so much back and forth.
Just typing all of this makes me realize you are at least 5+ years removed from a full time job and 7-9+ years away from B-school. Everything can change, so keep your mind open and start thinking about this when you need to.
Thanks for all the help... Sorry about the dumb question. Got some good insight though, so thank you.
Exiting IB (Originally Posted: 12/10/2010)
I'm at a MM bank in NY as a first year analyst.
I've heard that headhunters typically reach out to first years set up interviews a year in advance (I assume this is correct?). Since I am at a MM I'm guessing I probably won't be able to sit back and wait for the calls.
What is the path I should be taking to proactively find jobs for after my 2nd year?
There seems to be a lot of coverage regarding career path for BB guys and for breaking in to IB but I'm not sure what to expect being in MM. Thanks guys.
In BB you usually start hearing from headhunters right after January. People start locking up offers between then and June...usually the best firms (KKR, Blackstone and such) start earlier and the smaller PE shops will recruit later. I'm not sure about the process for MM, but that's the timeline you should shoot for.
Thanks for giving me the BB timeline. I assume this is Jan of 1st year analyst as I have been told earlier, yes?
And if I sit here and don't get contacted by a head hunter (I get the feeling i won't) what do I do? Do people reach out to head hunters on their own?
If anyone could give boutique/MM specific advice it'd be helpful too, thanks WSO!
1st year or 2nd year?
You should begin reaching out to headhunters on your own. But don't just rely on the headhunters to get you a job, fall back on what possibly got you to the bank in the first place - your network. Call alumni, friends, and other colleagues at the bank. Since you only have a two year contract and few analysts are promoted to third year (even fewer to Associate) it is expected that you will be looking for post analyst opportunities. People want to see you get a good job because it helps with recruitment and deals (who better to send a CIM to then a former employee?) Also, your firm will probably send around select opportunities too.
This is for first year analysts...people try to shoot to have a job lined up by June or if not you take the third year offer
and yes you can reach out to head hunters..I've worked with Oxbridge Group and Search One, I'd do a quick google to see if there's anyone else out there
is the 3rd offer pretty much automatic at bbs if you want to/have nowhere to go yet
FYI i am NOT in a "2-year program", many of the analysts at my bank stay on for 3rd year and get promoted if they want to. but it seems like a dead end to me so although i like my team and the work, i'm just trying to make sure i can continue my career path
that said, there probably isn't any internal help from HR to get placed elsewhere. are there specific head hunters that manage IB exits into PE/consulting or any head hunter will do the job? i'm fresh from UG so although i know the OCR process really well, i know nothing about find/dealing with head hunters.
(i'm a 1st year right now, trying to get this info since i've been told spring of 1st year is when it needs to happen). thanks again guys, your advice has been great so far.
First year's at BBs have already been contacted by head hunters, with initial screening interviews already set up as well. If I were you I would start earlier rather than later.
are you prepping?
When I have time, yes.
why does recruiting start so early these days? this whole process makes no sense to me.
Have you thought about lateraling to a BB? Just another option in case you don't land that PE gig, I guess...
not really that interested in lateraling since i really like my group and the work at this point. i'm mostly looking elsewhere for after 2nd year (or at least 1 year).
so it sounds like from the last few posts that if i haven't been contacted i won't? and i should reach out to head hunters myself?
if that's the case, anyone have any additional names for me (NYC area, PE focused)
Why are no analysts interested in moving up in banking? (Originally Posted: 07/09/2011)
Buyside basically has two benefits - better hours and higher pay, but if an analyst can get a promote to associate without going through business school, they'll have an extra two years ahead of their PE/HF friends (who almost have to go to b-school)
so they'll be a VP in banking while their friends are associates in PE, which sounds pretty comparable. it also seems much easier to become VP at a good bulge bracket / top boutique group than to become a post-MBA associate at megafund like Blackstone or a top MM like Madison Dearborn/TA/Summit. plus for (very) superficial reasons, a girl is more willing to talk to the guy from Morgan than the guy from Warburg. so why little interest?
id like to know as well.
go die in a sewer
You have clearly never worked in banking. Buyside has better hours and better pay (that makes up for the 2 year gap), but in my mind the real difference is that you become the client. No more 1am emails. No more sucking up to some jerkoff because you're trying to win a mandate. Much more minimal sucking up to some jerkoff that wants the font size on the document changed. That's why the buyside is better - much less bullshit. That's why nobody wants to stick it out in banking - banking sucks.
CaptK does an associate at a mega-cap/large MM PE (BX/Madison Dearborn) firm have better hours / more meaningful work than a VP at a bulge bracket? Excuse my ignorance, just asking because while PE associate > IBD associate, is PE / HF that much better that PE associate > banking VP at the same age?
swagon ?
He just told you....in PE you are the client, so yes hours are better, you dont get clients calling you at all hours ordering you around.
im 18 yr old and clueless anyone inform me what buy side is? detail will be nice too
Try Google you f'ing moron
If you are asking this question you clearly lack the aptitude or resourcefulness to work in high finance.
Dude, use GOOGLE.
ya wot are dey talkin about? wot is "IBD"
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Placeat magnam laborum expedita et esse. Voluptatibus sequi autem eos excepturi repellat culpa consequuntur maxime. Et sed voluptatum quo dicta nostrum. Voluptatibus dolorum veritatis id et eos necessitatibus.
Dolores ut sint dolorum ut mollitia corporis. Aut corporis pariatur id sint architecto sed sit. Enim necessitatibus qui sit. Quasi aut animi omnis fugit molestiae ut ipsum. Voluptatum impedit quibusdam eveniet. Error non quia et libero fuga et.
Culpa alias aut id error repellat. Ea maxime quibusdam inventore sunt enim ad. Laudantium excepturi sapiente odit id. Qui voluptatem occaecati vitae qui.
Ducimus ad aliquid amet facilis quidem et tempora eum. Sequi dolor voluptates iste. Rerum amet nihil molestiae et nihil cum earum. Pariatur qui temporibus dolor aliquam illum corporis animi aliquid. Sed est eos est aliquam expedita velit.
Officiis blanditiis illo nihil et optio ratione voluptatum. Dolores tempore saepe laborum minima. Doloribus non aut voluptatem est qui. Ab sint et voluptas sunt expedita consequatur sit. Debitis exercitationem reprehenderit voluptatibus et aperiam.
Corporis aut necessitatibus voluptatibus voluptatem itaque ad. Quia et aperiam eos facere quisquam voluptates nisi a. Consequatur dolorum quia inventore consequuntur corrupti. Vitae velit porro magnam officiis. Rerum maxime eos delectus maxime deserunt tempora.