Post-MBA Associate Life --- Consulting vs. I-Banking
Hey all
I know its an age old debate. Most forums and websites (M & I, Management Consulted, etc) give a good idea of what life is like as an analyst in consulting and ibanking. I'm in commercial banking contemplating maybe going to b-school and switching careers. I wanted to compare what post-mba life is like in both consulting and ibanking. What do ibanking associates earn? do they still clock 120+ hr workweeks? how about associates at MBB? what are their hours like? Travel? What are the pay differences? Reliable accounts please. The reason i'm asking is because quality of life is a bit more important as I recently got married and a baby is on the way (call it freak accident or bad timing but it happened) so the wife and the future kid need time too. People in the know, your input and guidance is appreciated!
Consultants work just as
Consultants work just as hard, travel more and get paid less. Any questions?
on the plus side, consultants
on the plus side, consultants collect a lot of frequent flyer miles, hotel points and basically dont really spend any money, but u are the road quite a bit.
some firms allow you to work 4 days a week and then have friday, sat, sunday off. not sure if mbb does that.
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I'm making it up as I go along.
jhoratio wrote: Consultants
Consultants work just as hard, travel more and get paid less. Any questions?
I am in consulting. I agree with your statement.
I'm in the same situation as
I'm in the same situation as maxim460.
From my research, it seems that the post-MBA work hours & pay breakdowns are as follows:
consulting
120-135k base
25-40k bonus
10k relocation
75-90 hours (mainly between M and F, with manageable preparation for the next week taking place at home for maybe 5 hours max during the weekend)
banking
95-105k base
95-105k bonus
0-10k relocation
90-115 hours (depending on your group, you might get down to 75 hours on the off-cycle, but you will be on-call and frequently in the office on weekends)
am i missing anything?
jhoratio wrote: Consultants
Consultants work just as hard, travel more and get paid less. Any questions?
completely agree with this statement
however it really depends what you want to do long term
and believe it or not, at my MBB many people could have gone to banking if they wanted
the skillsets are different and exit opportunities are different
however if you want to make money, do banking
my friends who went
my friends who went consulting now wish they had done banking (we have been out of b-school a couple of years now)
i think banking associates
i think banking associates would make 120 base with 120 bonus.
Javi2 wrote: I'm in the same
I'm in the same situation as maxim460.
From my research, it seems that the post-MBA work hours & pay breakdowns are as follows:
consulting
120-135k base
25-40k bonus
10k relocation
75-90 hours (mainly between M and F, with manageable preparation for the next week taking place at home for maybe 5 hours max during the weekend)
banking
95-105k base
95-105k bonus
0-10k relocation
90-115 hours (depending on your group, you might get down to 75 hours on the off-cycle, but you will be on-call and frequently in the office on weekends)
am i missing anything?
Regarding the banking associate, the hours quoted here seem exceptionally steep. My associates have an average arrival time of 9am and an average leave time of ~10pm. This is fairly standard across my bank (bulge bracket); however, there are obvious exceptions. There is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect on here between "peak" hours and "average" hours. Yes, associates will work up to 120 hours per week when a deal is about to launch or close, but that would only be for a banner deal, and there is no way in hell they average 90-115.
Personally, I would much rather work my ass off and at least come home to my own bed with my wife every night, even if it is late and she's already asleep, than go to a hotel 4 nights a week, 45 weeks a year.
Car Ramrod: Javi2: I'm in
I'm in the same situation as maxim460.
From my research, it seems that the post-MBA work hours & pay breakdowns are as follows:
consulting
120-135k base
25-40k bonus
10k relocation
75-90 hours (mainly between M and F, with manageable preparation for the next week taking place at home for maybe 5 hours max during the weekend)
banking
95-105k base
95-105k bonus
0-10k relocation
90-115 hours (depending on your group, you might get down to 75 hours on the off-cycle, but you will be on-call and frequently in the office on weekends)
am i missing anything?
Regarding the banking associate, the hours quoted here seem exceptionally steep. My associates have an average arrival time of 9am and an average leave time of ~10pm. This is fairly standard across my bank (bulge bracket); however, there are obvious exceptions. There is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect on here between "peak" hours and "average" hours. Yes, associates will work up to 120 hours per week when a deal is about to launch or close, but that would only be for a banner deal, and there is no way in hell they average 90-115.
Personally, I would much rather work my ass off and at least come home to my own bed with my wife every night, even if it is late and she's already asleep, than go to a hotel 4 nights a week, 45 weeks a year.
Question- it seems like the lifestyle benefit of consulting is that you get the weekend to yourself. The hours you listed for associates at your firm doesn't seem that bad, but how often or how much do they work on the weekends?
AsianMonky: Car
I'm in the same situation as maxim460.
From my research, it seems that the post-MBA work hours & pay breakdowns are as follows:
consulting
120-135k base
25-40k bonus
10k relocation
75-90 hours (mainly between M and F, with manageable preparation for the next week taking place at home for maybe 5 hours max during the weekend)
banking
95-105k base
95-105k bonus
0-10k relocation
90-115 hours (depending on your group, you might get down to 75 hours on the off-cycle, but you will be on-call and frequently in the office on weekends)
am i missing anything?
Regarding the banking associate, the hours quoted here seem exceptionally steep. My associates have an average arrival time of 9am and an average leave time of ~10pm. This is fairly standard across my bank (bulge bracket); however, there are obvious exceptions. There is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect on here between "peak" hours and "average" hours. Yes, associates will work up to 120 hours per week when a deal is about to launch or close, but that would only be for a banner deal, and there is no way in hell they average 90-115.
Personally, I would much rather work my ass off and at least come home to my own bed with my wife every night, even if it is late and she's already asleep, than go to a hotel 4 nights a week, 45 weeks a year.
Question- it seems like the lifestyle benefit of consulting is that you get the weekend to yourself. The hours you listed for associates at your firm doesn't seem that bad, but how often or how much do they work on the weekends?
It really depends on the firm and your preferences. If you're at McK, for instance, prepare to get worked very hard. BCG/Bain have a bit more of a focus on providing a work/life balance. Bain, for instance, has a travel-smart policy where they try very hard to have you travel as little as possible (esp if in NYC if you have a Fin/PE focus). At the junior levels, you may have to work the weekends.
McKinsey could care less. I know of guys (at the Consultant/EM/and even AP roles) who travel constantly, often weeks at a time for foreign engagements. So while your hours may get a little better, your travel requirements may not change at all.
In banking, your hours improve. You may start working 80 (I'd doubt 100 hrs for associates unless on a live deal) to 90 hours, but by the time you're an A3, your hours are down to 70-80-85. By the time you hit VP, hours are reduced even more.
What I'm trying to get at here is the lifestyle in either consulting or banking sucks starting out. I do know, however, that in banking your pay improves and your lifestyle improves. Can't say the same about consulting despite the increased allure the job is now having on used-to wanna-be bankers. Let me know if that helps answer your question.
bankbanker101: AsianMonky:
I'm in the same situation as maxim460.
From my research, it seems that the post-MBA work hours & pay breakdowns are as follows:
consulting
120-135k base
25-40k bonus
10k relocation
75-90 hours (mainly between M and F, with manageable preparation for the next week taking place at home for maybe 5 hours max during the weekend)
banking
95-105k base
95-105k bonus
0-10k relocation
90-115 hours (depending on your group, you might get down to 75 hours on the off-cycle, but you will be on-call and frequently in the office on weekends)
am i missing anything?
Regarding the banking associate, the hours quoted here seem exceptionally steep. My associates have an average arrival time of 9am and an average leave time of ~10pm. This is fairly standard across my bank (bulge bracket); however, there are obvious exceptions. There is, in my opinion, a clear disconnect on here between "peak" hours and "average" hours. Yes, associates will work up to 120 hours per week when a deal is about to launch or close, but that would only be for a banner deal, and there is no way in hell they average 90-115.
Personally, I would much rather work my ass off and at least come home to my own bed with my wife every night, even if it is late and she's already asleep, than go to a hotel 4 nights a week, 45 weeks a year.
Question- it seems like the lifestyle benefit of consulting is that you get the weekend to yourself. The hours you listed for associates at your firm doesn't seem that bad, but how often or how much do they work on the weekends?
It really depends on the firm and your preferences. If you're at McK, for instance, prepare to get worked very hard. BCG/Bain have a bit more of a focus on providing a work/life balance. Bain, for instance, has a travel-smart policy where they try very hard to have you travel as little as possible (esp if in NYC if you have a Fin/PE focus). At the junior levels, you may have to work the weekends.
McKinsey could care less. I know of guys (at the Consultant/EM/and even AP roles) who travel constantly, often weeks at a time for foreign engagements. So while your hours may get a little better, your travel requirements may not change at all.
In banking, your hours improve. You may start working 80 (I'd doubt 100 hrs for associates unless on a live deal) to 90 hours, but by the time you're an A3, your hours are down to 70-80-85. By the time you hit VP, hours are reduced even more.
What I'm trying to get at here is the lifestyle in either consulting or banking sucks starting out. I do know, however, that in banking your pay improves and your lifestyle improves. Can't say the same about consulting despite the increased allure the job is now having on used-to wanna-be bankers. Let me know if that helps answer your question.
Thanks for the detailed response- for the McK people that travel constantly, do they still get to come home on Thursdays? Also, how often do Banking associates work on weekends? They must work quite a bit if they come home at 10pm on weekdays and still work 70~80 hours.
McK --> again, depends on
McK --> again, depends on whether they're on a foreign engagement or local. If you're out in Africa for a 6 month engagement, you'll come home every 3rd/4th week.
Banking --> really is group by group. The culture of the group (and primarily the VPs) determine how much work they want to give you. Clearly, if you're on a deal, expect to work that weekend. My first year and a half, I was in every other weekend for a few hours here and there. Now, one in every three since I've got younger associates who can help out.
I came from a MBB background (pre-MBA) and am now in banking. While the jobs are fundamentally the same in that you're in salesy role and at your clients' behest, I appreciate being able to go home to my wife every night. This would have been very difficult to manage in consulting.
bankbanker101: McK --> again,
McK --> again, depends on whether they're on a foreign engagement or local. If you're out in Africa for a 6 month engagement, you'll come home every 3rd/4th week.
Banking --> really is group by group. The culture of the group (and primarily the VPs) determine how much work they want to give you. Clearly, if you're on a deal, expect to work that weekend. My first year and a half, I was in every other weekend for a few hours here and there. Now, one in every three since I've got younger associates who can help out.
I came from a MBB background (pre-MBA) and am now in banking. While the jobs are fundamentally the same in that you're in salesy role and at your clients' behest, I appreciate being able to go home to my wife every night. This would have been very difficult to manage in consulting.
Thanks for clearing up the lifestyle differences in IB vs MBB. Could you please talk about why you decided to choose IB post MBA instead of going back to consulting?
Also, are there a lot of exit ops into F500- corp dev, or corp strategy after spending 2~3 years in IB post MBA? If so, what level (sr. mgr, director?) or pay would they expect?
Consulting: you're hired for
Consulting: you're hired for one of two reasons
1. Either to provide a rubber stamp of approval on something your client already came up with so they can pass the idea further up the chain
2. justify something that a division may not be comfortable going through with. I.e., "our McK study showed that while we kill X number of fish through the installation of hydro pumps, they recommend that we proceed because it results in Y savings"
Let's face it: the clients that hire MBB are large corporations (for the most part). They've got their own consulting and strategy groups that know their space, clients and products much better than an external party. I got tired of this so left and did corp dev at a company before bschool.
Exits: biz dev, operations, strategy
Banking: I thought was more down my path because it's transaction-based.
Yes, the work can be mind-numbing and the thought of putting together another pitch book may make you want to tear your hair out, but a. you're learning (even while pitching) and b. you should understand that those pitches are a way for the MD to feel out the client and see, based on their rejection/acceptance of certain proposals, potential movements in the market. While it's tough to pick this up as an analyst/associate, oftentimes,the VPs can give insight into this strategy.
Since banking is more transaction-oriented, oftentimes ex-bankers (associate/jr VPs) leave to do business development. They'll know how a sales process works, how negotiations are made, and how to sell.
Associates can leave to go to PE. I've seen it happen. LevFin guys go to HF's or PE since they know the high yield market well; M&A/coverage guys can go to PE if they have prior experience or just hustle.
Hope that helps