Proprietary trading
Prop Traders are on of the Highest Paid people on Wall Street. Any Prop traders here ?
How do i become one ? Average salary of a Prop Trader ?
Prop Traders are on of the Highest Paid people on Wall Street. Any Prop traders here ?
How do i become one ? Average salary of a Prop Trader ?
Career Resources
True prop trading desks at dealers like the ones pre-crisis are long gone (taking large amounts of risk)... You're not going to see those coming back anytime soon.
There are a few pure desks that remain, but the amount of risk that they are allowed to take has been cut dramatically... They are primarily focused in Treasuries, Munis, and Mortgages (Exempt from Volcker)... I know Nomura, RBC, and Citi still have dedicated desks.
For the most part, most dealers have moved to integrating everything into market making desks. Because proprietary trades and hedging is a grey area, customer facing desks take proprietary risks, but its a lot harder to justify large size.
With that said, the best traders are the ones who generate revenue away from franchise P&L... But because risk has been significantly scaled down, you're never going to see traders make the amounts you saw pre-crisis ($20mm+)... However, I think closer to $5-10mm is still pretty good...
How to become a proprietary trader? (Originally Posted: 07/26/2007)
Are you offered a position as a proprietary trader after you prove yourself at a regular desk? If so, how come there are people straight out of college becoming a proprietary trader? Please answer nicely and excuse me for my naive question. Thanks.
Lol
^that works.
mm8875, lots of people work for a prop firm straight out of undergrad. For large banks (BBs) you need to work your way up from regular desks. These BB prop desks are the uberest.
Several firms are just prop firms where they trade the firms capital - these firms are smaller than BBs.
so, decently, how long does it take to move up from a regular desk to a prop desk?
Then how are kids at my school going to Goldman for prop trading right after they graduate? I'm sure it's near impossible to do, but there must be some way in.
Remember also that the line between prop and sell-side is often blurred, as many/most desks have backbooks. The path from research to prop take about 2 years. From trading its different, b/c with more responsibility comes more risk appetite, which means prop opportunities right on the desk.
^ so from trading how long usually? I know someone who is 29 and works at as a proprietary trader in a big bank. He said he's not even that good. Is this common, or are they usually older?
Breaking into prop trading? (Originally Posted: 05/22/2012)
Where can I learn about what it takes to break into prop trading? I've already read the interview on M&I but it really wasn't all that informative. It seems like prop firms don't really do a lot of on campus recruiting, so is it more about networking than anything else?
I am about to start college at NYU CAS next year, econ/comp sci double major.
Any and all advice appreciated.
" It seems like prop firms don't really do a lot of on campus recruiting, so is it more about networking than anything else?"
Not true at all. They do recruiting at their core schools. Go to the big firms websites(imc, optiver, jane street, sig, jump, etc), they all have recruiting events at their target schools.
For example IMC:
Harvard University December 5 (Summer Opportunities Fair) February 8 University of Chicago January 6 (Winter Career Fair) January 25 Northwestern University January 18 (McCormick Tech Expo) January 30 Stanford University January 19 (IMC Info Session) February 16 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign February 1 (Engineering Career Fair) February 10 Washington University February 2 (IMC Info Session) February 28 MIT February 7 (Tau Beta Pi Spring 2012 Career Fair) February 23 Carnegie Mellon February 8 (Employment Opportunities Conference) February 22 Princeton University February 17 (Summer Internship Fair) March 1 Harvey Mudd College February 17 (Spring 2012 Job & Internship Fair)
Jump Trading:
September
Harvard - Boutique Night: September 7th UIUC - Career Fair: September 7th UIUC - Campus Interviews: September 8th MIT - Info Session: September 13th CMU - Career Fair: September 21st CMU - Campus Interviews: September 22nd MIT - Career Fair: September 21st UW Madison - Career Fair: September 21st UIUC - Tech Talk: September 27th October
MIT - On- Campus Interviews: October 7th UIUC - On- Campus Interviews: October 7th Stanford - Career Fair: October 12th Stanford - Info Sessoin: October 12th UW Madison - On- Campus Interviews: October 14th Harvard - On- Campus Interviews: October 19th Stanford - On- Campus Interviews: October 31st
Help Breaking into Prop Trading (Originally Posted: 07/08/2013)
Hi all, I am trying to break into prop trading and looking for some advice. I am currently 25, with a Bachelor’s and a Master’s degree in Engineering. My schools are not target schools but I have good grades and I believe they are fairly good schools overall (small liberal arts for undergrad, state school with top ranked program for grad school). I have some math/stats background (did Industrial Engineering with focus in Operations Research in grad school) as well as programming experience (taken CS classes throughout schooling and program in my spare time as well). I also love gambling (seems like there is a connection between gambling and trading but if that just makes for a good story someone please let me know) and am trying to leverage that along with my math/stats background and programming experience into an entry level trading role (at a company like SIG, Optiver, etc.).
I just recently made it several rounds with a prop firm in Chicago but got cut before the last interview phase. The bright side is I don’t feel that I fit the typical candidate profile yet I was able to make it pretty far through the interview process. Realistically though I know this is a very competitive industry and I think I need to improve in order to obtain a job. I am currently a year out of grad school, and finding it difficult to get interviews. I have been mostly applying online through company websites (with limited success) but recently have been working more on networking. I am finding this difficult as well since I am a year out of grad school like I said and am essentially cold calling/emailing alums.
My question for anyone out there is if they could give me some advice on how I can break into trading (what can I do to improve my chances, what are my chances realistically)? Also if anyone with trading experience could share with me what their day to day experience is like and what they think it takes to be a successful trader (or the characteristics of someone who enjoys trading) that would be awesome.
I am very serious about entering trading so I really appreciate any help I get. Any other related advice is welcome. Thank you.
Shoot me a PM with your email address.
Thanks, will do
still looking for some advice. Have upcoming interviews with Flow Traders and XR Trading. If anyone has info on them and could share it, that would be great.
Prop Trading - What do I need to do to break in? (Originally Posted: 02/04/2012)
How can I break into a proprietary trading firm? My main goal is to trade equities or equity options at a prop firm, but I am willing to do anything related and am willing to work for peanuts to learn the business. I went to a no name school, got a 3.3 Overall, 3.7 Major GPA in Financial Markets Finance. I was part of a student-ran "long/short market neutral" hedge fund and learned a lot. Since then, for the past few years I have been working in operations for a couple different big banks building my Excel and VBA skills. I tried trading remotely with an "arcade" prop firm but failed miserably and lost a considerable amount of money( ~$20k) and realize I need mentoring/training if I am going to make a living doing this. I have read countless amounts of trading books and follow the markets religiously but I don't have much I can offer these firms on paper.
Here are some options I have thought of to break in, do you think any of them are good? What else do I need to be doing?
1.) Will it work to start networking my ass off? 2.) Do whatever I can to get into a good MBA program. 3.) Go for my Masters in Financial Engineering. 4.) Build a track record in my own trading account with small size. 5.) Get a back office or assistant job at a prop firm and work my way up. 6.) Try to get into an internship program.
Learn programing.
Always network.
What language would be most beneficial?
java and c++
I would suggest asking and talking to any traders you know or can network with.
How hard is it to get into a prop trading shop after a few years out of college? (Originally Posted: 08/08/2009)
I've been out of school for a little while and have been interested in doing prop trading at a fairly good prop shop in Chicago (e.g., DRW, SIG, Spot, etc). How hard is it to get into trading at a reputable firm after a few years of other work experience, especially economic research? (Given a 3.8+ GPA at a good school in math and econ and good SAT scores?)
Do college academic performance/test scores still matter? Would the recruiting process be done primarily through cold calls and networking?
sig is in philly
they have a chicago office
not too tough, there are a number of shops that will still take guys in your shoes in fact January is a big time for hiring for a lot of shops...some of the ones you mentioned are more traditional and the quieter ones are more open to ppl who've been around a bit, but generally it's not hard to get in from a position such as yours. Good luck!
You probably wouldn't want to start at SIG Chicago tho.
of course they have a chicago office they trade options but it's not where you would start out and probably not where you want to be
want to move to prop trading/quant HF, but how? (Originally Posted: 05/04/2007)
Hello, I am currently an investment banker, but I am looking to get into a prop shop/quant HF, as a junior trader or assistant trader of some sort. Any advice on how to go about it? Seems like finding the door in is tougher in this field than in banking/pe/long-short hf/etc etc, but that might just be a function of my current career. Any help would be great; I hate banking, I need something engaging/intellectual/semi-cerebral to do, and doing LBO models all day is somehow just not cutting it
Thanks in advance for your help
any help?
Get a masters degree in computational finance or something similar. It like like an MBA for quant traders and definitely could get you in the door. Otherwise, I guess you are stuck networking. Anything is possible.
what about financial engineering? Is that the same as computational finance?
Mathematical Finance, Computational Finance, Financial Engineering all basically equate to the same thing.
Background for prop shop (Originally Posted: 02/26/2014)
Hi,
I was just wondering if anyone knew what type of background/experiences is typical for someone working at Jane Street/similar prop shops in London.
I know that most people have maths/engineering degrees but is Economics suitable?
I am not an expert, but a few firms such as Jane Street came to my school for on campus recruiting.
First of all, economics is a quantitative field of study - at least it should be at a good program. As long as you are mentally agile (e.g. quick with mental calculations, confidence interval type questions and brain teasers), your major does not matter too much.
I personally knew a former International Math Olympiad medalist who went insane (not literally "insane" per se) and decided to read English Literature at University... I don't know what he is up to now, but if he wanted a job at Jane Street, I'm guessing he could easily get a job there (at the very least, probably an interview).
Bump. Also if someone could comment on this: do first year uni students (Econ) stand a chance at landing an internship at places like Jane Street in London specifically (or have to wait to being 2nd years)?
Bump.
I have a math/econ degree, the quant side definitely helped me to get to the first rounds. But anything after that is on you, rather than your background.
How can I end up at a chicago prop shop if I go to NYU? (Originally Posted: 07/04/2012)
I'm going to be a NYU sophomore in the fall. Is it possible that I could end up at a prop shop in Chicago, or am I basically stuck here in New York career-wise?
You're stuck in NY. Start slitting your wrists.
Chicago is where it is at. Transfer to Northwestern or UofChicago
I can't. Transferring into either of those schools is harder than getting into Harvard as a freshman, statistically. I'm stuck here at NYU.
The answers almost always the same to these kinds of questions: network your butt off. Connections will always matter in life, and most of my friends in prop trading got there through some sort of connection (usually through their fraternity), but on the plus side, a lot of their coworkers seem to be from all around the country at random schools. In this case, you might also want to gain the relevant skills that prop shops value (CS, math, stats) since prop shops don't value soft skills as much. If you can make money for them, then you create value for them.
Seriously though, don't spam your resume through the black hole that is internet applications; at the very least, just call up the recruiter, introduce yourself, and talk to them for a couple minutes about the kind of trading they do and make sure to express your interest.
Is it easy to break into Chicago Prop trading? (Originally Posted: 05/06/2014)
From what I have seen, heard and read, it seems that getting interviews is easy but actually getting hired is tough. Does anyone have insight into the hiring process, or how likely it is to get an interview?
Well my first question to you would be where are you coming from? Are you a student? Are you a math/quant/CS major? If you're experienced, is your experience relevant?
I'm a physics major math minor, graduating senior from a smaller school, with little experience. Took some finance classes and was in finance clubs and enjoyed them. I have some programming experience from a few intro courses- not looking for a pure programming role though.
getting into prop trading in Chicago (Originally Posted: 12/03/2009)
Hey guys, I'm new to this forum, but I am thinking of a career change. Currently, I'm a CPA in consulting, but I would really like to pursue trading. I've been trading with my own portfolio for over 5 years and have been fairly successful, but nothing compared to a full-time professional trader (very limited knowledge of options and derivatives)
I know a couple people in prop trading and it seems something I would love to do on a full-time basis. My contacts though don't really provide me with any viable options, and I've thought about just applying outright (which I doubt I'd be considered for any postion because of my limited professional experience), and my ugrad is a top 50 business school, but nothing to write home about or with extensive trading contacts.
I've been accepted into a quantiative grad engi/math program @ UChicago, do you think this would be a good place to start as a spring-board to get into the trading field? Specifically the chicago prop shops? I worry, as I feel most traders are like ugrads from the ivy leagues...I graduated magna cum laude from my ugrad, and have a top job in my field. Do these firms conduct OCI @ uchicago? And would I be eligible despite being a grad student?
Thanks! Any thoughts would be appreciated.
What kind of prop trading firms are u looking at in Chicago? Top ranked (optiver, jane streeet etc) or average (nico holdings, etc)
I'd prefer "higher" tier firms, but I'd work for nico holdings etc...I'm not just going to go to a bad start-up with poor career prospects, otherwise I don't think itd be worth my time or the risk.
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