Putting finance off for the military?

I know there are a few guys posting here that are vets or are currently serving, so I'm hoping they can chime in.

I'm a senior, still looking for a job. I've had a few job offers but have been somewhat picky (have not gotten an IB offer though) and some shitty timing (decent company that I wouldn't mind working for, but they restructured and no longer needed my role. Had a verbal/over the phone offer in place).

I'm graduating debt-free (from a non-target, decent state school) so I'm not under intense pressure to get a job and start making loan payments. Still going through the interview process at some small boutiques and other non-IB roles. Some stats on me: a little above a 3.5 GPA, 1390 (old) SAT, boutique IB internship, some leadership experience, etc.

I have always kept the military in the back of my mind, I'm a Coast Guard brat, grew up on a base/visited other branches as a kid, so I have some exposure to the lifestyle (granted CG is somewhat different than the other combat focused branches). I thought about joining out of high school, so this isn't completely new for me (talked to recruiters back then too). I applied for NROTC in high school, so joining the military is not just a passing fad for me.

Before anyone says it, I'm not just looking at the military for an alternative to get into a top-10 bschool or NYC BB. Yeah that might be the goal when I am looking to exit the military (it tentatively is now, should I go down that route) but military service has always been at the back of my mind and I was looking through threads and found something that I really agreed with. http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/finance-or-military-out-of-college

"You will not have fun like your friends will in NYC doing finance, that's a given. But for the rest of your life you actually did something meaningful and will have much more depth than your peers who have no sense of the world beyond the upper 1% lifestyle in NYC/DC. This will pay dividends throughout your life. And you can always go to B school and get into finance later. You'll only be ~28 by then. That's what I'm doing. I recommend you do it, you'll regret it later in life if you don't." @Spartacus4321

That's basically the mindset I am looking at this from. I am interested in both finance and the military and I figure it is a lot easier for me for to get in shape, not have any commitments, etc. needed for the military when I am 21-22 vs. 27-28. And finance will most likely still be there after my 4-5 years in the military (or make the military a career..?).

I realize this is not the best forum for general advice on the military but I know some people on here have an interest in finance and were/are in the military so I was hoping they could chime in.

Would you still recommend going down the military route; would you do it again? Still trying to determine what branch I'd want to join as well.

Any advice before talking to recruiters? I need to get in shape first (in order to be competitive for OCS), so my timeline is still a couple of months away.

Any other advice? Things you wish you knew?

Thanks!

 

I have no prior military or financial work experience (yet) because I'm still a college student too so take this with a grain of salt but my take is; If you have an aspiration for both the military and finance then dammit do both. There aren't many more noble things one could do on this planet than fight for their country and if thats what you want to do then do it. The finance world will always be waiting for you when you feel you've served this country enough. You have offers already so you know that you'll get some soon after you return I soppose. Good luck in whatever you choose bro.

 

After reading your post, it seems as though you want to join the military for the wrong reasons (no solid job prospects post graduation). Most importantly, there's no guarantee that you will get an officer slot. The days of walking into a recruiters office and signing up and leaving shortly are all but over.

Realize this, 99% of the top B schoolers w military backgrounds come from combat slots and/or service academy grads. You aren't the latter so are you willing to become the former?

Pretty sure most veterans will say they don't regret but we joined for the right reasons not BC we couldn't find a job. If truly want to serve your country then that contemplation should be short lived.

 

most people who do military right out of college (given that they eventually transition into a successful career in finance) usually do it through some sort of ROTC program, or are specially selected. many do it out of west point, annapolis or air force- they have been specially trained.

you're not going to get as much out of it as you think, because you don't have the background

.
 

Thanks for both of your responses.

IvyLeagueVet, you raise good points. It seems like the spots for officers are mostly being taken up by service academy guys and ROTC, and then the rest are fought for between civilians and enlisted guys looking to become officers (from what I've gathered online).

I'd rather do a combat role than something else, although intelligence sounds interesting. My buddy at West Point knows I've been considering the military and is pushing for me to do infantry in the Army with him. Still trying to do more research and I'm realizing how far I have to go physically before I am competitive for OCS. I'm not in terrible shape, but like you said, it is getting harder to become an officer.

I realize my post might have come across like me not having solid job prospects lined up and just joining the military as plan F. That may be partially true and you might be a better judge (unbiased outsider reading my post).

But I've never wanted to spend my entire career in an office and looked into a range of options to start my career with or take a mid-career break (TFA, Peace Corps, Venture for America). Military too of course but that is a much larger commitment and you're signing your life away to the Uncle for the next ~8 years (and some like it and make it a career). I wanted to join the Marines out of high school but my mom freaked out and almost cut me off haha. So some sort of service has always been in the back of my mind but I have a lot of research/getting in shape to do still.

Thanks again.

Edit: matayo

That's what I've gathered so far. Was rejected from Navy ROTC in high school but someone said I would have had a much better chance applying to Army. He said AF and Navy didn't take any non-tier 1 or tier 2 majors (STEM majors) my year. But he said the Army values STEM majors like all branches but they have more slots, typically, and can take more non-STEM (knew a kid that got into Columbia with a 1560 on his SAT that was rejected from NROTC b/c he wanted to do economics, so I didn't feel that bad haha).

Part of me is happy I didn't get ROTC because I've been able to have a more "traditional" college experience (but the beer gut that I've developed is slowing my run time down).

Would have also been nice to go to one of my "dream" schools tuition free and be guaranteed a spot but that is water under the bridge.

 

Didn't read any of the above, but if i could do it again I'd have become a helicopter pilot, done my service then moved to becoming a heli ski operator or mountain search and rescue.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
Best Response

Military vet here who WASN'T ROTC or service academy. I'm a bit concerned by what I've read above; 30-40% of the Officer's in my service DID NOT come from ROTC or service academy, so this idea that you won't be successful as an Officer without ROTC is horse shit. A lot of ROTC kids (and academy grads sometimes) get shell shocked when they get to the fleet. DO NOT let lack of ROTC keep you from going in; OCS and the follow-on schools (TBS for me) are more than enough to prepare you......it's literally why they exist.

Also, you're at an advantage not being in ROTC. If you do serve for 4 years, you'll have 100% GI bill for an eventual MBA, unlike the ROTC guys. This will make a top B school more attainable for you, because you won't have to worry as much about debt load/earning scholarships.

It's true that the vets who go to top B schools are usually combat arms, so I don't know how Coast Guard will play out for you. What I do know is that if you serve honorably, earn some awards, and make a difference, there are a ton of great schools that would love to have you.

Soapbox aside, don't join for the wrong reasons. Every fellow Marine I know would eat you alive for saying something like "hopefully ISIS wont be here in 4-5 years" when discussing whether or not you would make it a career. Everyone who's signed up in the past 10 years has done so in a time of war, and many of us did it BECAUSE there were wars going on. In fact, a big part of my decision to leave was that the wars were winding down and deployment opportunities had dried up.

To directly answer your last question, yes I would do it again.

 

John-doe,

Thanks for the reply. I meant the ISIS being gone comment as a partial joke (apparently bad one)/wish, that they would be eradicated in 4-5 years because they suck haha. The rise of ISIS is actually a reason I started looking more seriously into the Army/more combat focused roles vs. the Navy. Navy is obviously very important but I'd be closer to the action in the Army or Marines. My dad was Coast Guard, not sure if that's what I want to do. Love the lifestyle and living by the water though, best branch for family life IMO (from a CG brat's view).

Seems like OCS is a different ballgame now, very few spots compared to recent years (given our activity overseas is going down). Granted it was always this way somewhat from what I've read (fill officer class primarily with service academy guys, ROTC and then bridge gap with OCS) but I am encouraged by your personal experience.

I talked to someone about OCS and they said I would need a near perfect PFT score in order to be competitive (along with the other components of my application). For the run, the Marines max score is 3 miles in 18 mins and the Army is 2 miles in around 14 minutes. Right now I can do 2 miles in about 16 minutes, so I definitely have my work cut out for me.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

OP -

I second most of what @John-Doe8 is saying, though I will say that at my M7 we have representation from a full spectrum of services (including coasties) and military specialties, not just combat arms. While the numbers may skew slightly in their favor, I think it is more a matter of self selection, than admission bias.

At the end of the day, make sure you are joining for the right reason, but there is no problem being cognizant of the exit opportunities available to you. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

 

Random thoughts here- I was Marine Corps infantry, but I joined during the Clinton years and thought I'd go play in the woods for four peaceful years. Oops. And my broke ass definitely did ROTC for the college money. So I agree you shouldn't do it for the wrong reasons, but I certainly had practical reasons for joining.

I'm jealous of the John does who didn't do ROTC, I had buddies who had a 'normal' college experience and became great Marine officers. So there are definitely many paths, again, if that's what you want.

I'll just add that I always wanted to do business/"white collar" work after the military, and there were plenty of times mosquitoes were eating me alive and my feet were wet and I hadnt slept more than 4 hours in a field op where I'd have been happy in a fucking office. The job gets respect because sometimes it sucks :).

Whichever path you take, embrace the suck. If you can handle a little discomfort in that first job, be it infantry or banking, you'll set yourself up well for the future.

 

I was in the military for eleven years as an air traffic controller; currently employed now as a data scientist. Personally, I would not recommend the military to anyone as it has become a political game where our mission was dictated by Washington and not from a 'protecting/serving' your country i.e., never once did I feel I was helping America become safer, freer, etc... While I am grateful to have the experience, it is not something I can honestly recommend.

“I am always saying "Glad to've met you" to somebody I'm not at all glad I met. If you want to stay alive, you have to say that stuff, though.” ― J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye
 

I served 7 years and got out last year. There are non ROTC/academy options, but competition is intense. OCS boards are typically only created to fill gaps in manning the leftover slots from ROTC and the academies.

I would encourage everyone to serve in some way for the perspective it offers. However, you need to make sure you start preparing for your transition out very early while also balancing your commitment to the military. As an officer, you will be expected to live the life as if you were planning on making a career out of it from day one...so don't apply if you can't handle the responsibility of the lifestyle. Combat arms stuff looks good on an application but the majority of officers are in support roles and still have substantial bullets for their resumes and opportunities to make a big difference overseeing millions of dollars in equipment and dozens or hundreds of people.

Also, as someone who spent time in recruiting, I can tell you that you need to apply for the military ASAP. I know the Air Force only has non rated boards (non flyers) once a year! And then when/if you are selected it can take 6+ months to leave for training. The Army is bigger of course, with a less technical emphasis, but even then don't be expected to have recruiters going out of their way for you unless you have a specific background (STEM degree, language skills, special ops potential, dad is a general, etc.). There are tons of qualified people applying these days so you need to stand out, just like any other good job.

 

I second the comments regarding getting big head-start. OCS guy here, and it took me nearly a year from the time I put in a package to the time I arrived at OCS, and I picked it up on my first look. There's a lot of in-processing, and god help you if you've ever had a medical procedure (I broke my leg in college, and getting that cleared easily added 3 months to my intake).

Also - do it for whatever reason you want dude, just understand that if it's a means-to-an-end for you that you'll def be miserable a lot of times. The military puts you in challenging situations, and it can be tough to deal with if you don't really want to be there. That being said, there's nothing wrong with exit-ops being part of your calculus.

Bottom-line: great experience, great people, opened a lot of doors for me, and highly recommended to anyone who can get into the officer corps or a spec-type job

 

Every service is different, and the Marines definitely have their own procedures. OTS for the Air Force trains about 500-800 new officers every year (depending on service end strength and numbers from the Academy/ROTC). Of those slots available, about 2/3s are typically for rated positions such as pilot, navigator, UAV pilot, etc. So if you aren't trying to fly (which is a 10 year commitment for pilots), you are competing for about 150-300 non rated slots a year. For the most recent non rated board, the selection rate was 32% and of the 161 selected, 100 were already enlisted.

I am sure the Army and Navy have different processes and stats, my point is that applying for any officer role is a lengthy, competitive process regardless of which service you decide to go for. During the height of the Iraq war, I met a 36-year old art major who walked in to his Army recruiting office and left to OCS soon after. Those days don't exist anymore...fortunately.

 

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