Yeah definitely put both on there. Being in a frat helps in that it shows you're socially active and normal enough to be admitted into a frat (unless it's a really nerdy frat..but people will generally assume it's not). It will also help if you're being interviewed by someone who was in your frat at your particular school (it helps less if you're interviewed by someone who's a brother of your frat but not your school's chapter).

 

I would definitely put it in there, not because it tells people you are cool or anythign like that but if anyone who looks at your resume was in your fraternity they will look out for you.

 

Put it on there because it shows that you are normal. As far as getting an interview because of your respective fraternity, this is far fetched. Just because you are a brother, does not mean you will be a good worker. Also, many fraternities have rifts between different chapters... i.e. Sig Ep has balanced man and traditional chapters, both of which talk shit about the other. Of course, you never know.

It certainly doesn't hurt to put it on though, which I think is what you are asking.

 
aspiringmonkeyisanidiot:
Put it on there because it shows that you are normal. As far as getting an interview because of your respective fraternity, this is far fetched. Just because you are a brother, does not mean you will be a good worker. Also, many fraternities have rifts between different chapters... i.e. Sig Ep has balanced man and traditional chapters, both of which talk shit about the other. Of course, you never know.

It certainly doesn't hurt to put it on though, which I think is what you are asking.

not that far-fetched at all for a frat brother to look out for his own unless of course a chapter really hates another one.

 
MandA_Junkie:
In regards to the Presidential Honor Roll, from what I've heard it's not real. If I remember correctly it is one of those scam honor roll societies. Not real, just taking your money.

what money? The School's Pressident's honor roll... you get a letter of admission into it, no paying involved

 

Thanks for all the responses, I guess it can't hurt. The thing is space is very valuable in my resume (or any resume for that matter) so I only want to make space for things that will truly help

 

you should list your frat on your resume whether or not you have a leadership position

------

"its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."

------ "its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."
 

mine always ended up coming up in the interview anwyway. my interviewers always wanted to know what i did aside from maintaining a high gpa and dorky leadership positions. i pity the kid that couldnt say, "oh im greek," to that question.

 

A friend of mine does BB interviewing and, if he sees someone who's a member of a frat that he didn't particularly like during his time at school, he grills that person with hardcore techs for the majority of the 1st rd interview. So it doesn't always work in your favor, but still, list it on the resume. Like others have said, it creates another topic of discussion.

 

it sounds so fucking tacky. Call it a fraternity. And yes, put it on your resume. You'd be surprised how many people are Greek, and despite the different houses there are, it's a great relationship builder. Plus, it's leadership experience and that's a great thing to show. It's not just bankers that are greek, clients can be to. A client I had to do some work for is a member of the same fraternity I'm in and I found out that out because he was in charge of his chapter's alumni investment fund and I had to do some general allocation work which is now screwed up due to the recent bond shifts, however point being you don't always know where you will find 1) Fraternity alumni, 2) Chapter alumni and 3) Greek alumni in general.

 

oh please, i was given (and gave) the stupid "its a fraternity not a frat" spiel countless times. i then got older and realized how stupid that is. i don't mean to hijack, just saying

Frieds:
it sounds so fucking tacky. Call it a fraternity. And yes, put it on your resume. You'd be surprised how many people are Greek, and despite the different houses there are, it's a great relationship builder. Plus, it's leadership experience and that's a great thing to show. It's not just bankers that are greek, clients can be to. A client I had to do some work for is a member of the same fraternity I'm in and I found out that out because he was in charge of his chapter's alumni investment fund and I had to do some general allocation work which is now screwed up due to the recent bond shifts, however point being you don't always know where you will find 1) Fraternity alumni, 2) Chapter alumni and 3) Greek alumni in general.

------

"its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."

------ "its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."
 

Tacky or not, I'm sure on a resume you wouldn't see "Frat" written down.

Paradoxical, if you're in a Greek fraternity, it shouldn't matter if it's a "Local" (Read: A fraternity that can only be found at one school. ex. Beta Sigma @ Penn State) fraternity or a national one (ex. Sigma Alpha Epsilon) because it's a talking point. With business "fraternities", they are just professional organizations that have adopted Greek letters in order to make it seem like they are on par with their Greek equivolents.

 

Yes, list it, even if you didn't have a leadership position... as long as you can speak about it intelligently in interviews and make it sound constructive, you'll be fine.

I personally don't like business frats because I think the whole concept is kind of silly and they shouldn't be labeled "frats" since they're in a completely different vein compared to, say, Animal House.

But you should still list those anyway. The more activities and interests you have on your resume and might potentially have in common with the interviewer, the better.

Yes, you could make the argument that if someone didn't like your frat it could potentially hurt you, but that is unlikely and an interviewer could dislike you for almost any reason anyway... there's a lot more upside than downside to listing a frat, just make sure you can tell them you did something other than party every night.

 

If its an important part of your life it belongs on your resume provided: 1) There's space for it(you don't have a gazillion better things to put) 2) Its not an obvious turn off (don't list your favorite porn site under activities) 3) You can discuss it intelligently for at least 5 min during an interview (don't list menial things)

 

is something that is an instant conversation starter. Don't care if you were in a different house, that's one thing I can talk to you about other than asking about your "interest in reading Finance periodicals" and "extensive investment experience."

Business fraternities are only good to add if you had a leadership position; if not, then don't add it.

Realistically, if you have two equally qualified candidates, would you rather spend 12-18 hours a day with the ex-social chair of a traditional fraternity or the scribe of a business one?

 

You've got a few points that really hold true.

The thing is any position in a traditional fraternity where you either 1) have to manage money or 2) manage people is looked at better than any kind of business fraternity. I don't care what anyone says, they are a joke, Esp. at State and well-accepted and known for Schools.

Here's the thing I never understood. Do fraternities actually exist as "traditional fraternities" at the Ivies? If someone could answer that one, I'd appreciate it.

 

yes, fraternities actually exist as traditional fraternities at Ivies. i don't know what you're really asking by traditional fraternities...but if you mean the typical partying/drinking/girl-chasing/community service/leadership positions etc and stuff and all, then yeah. i don't think there is too much of a difference other than that the kids in them probably tend to care a bit more about school work and are smarter than the typical American frat brother. also, the greek scene tends to be much smaller than at larger and state schools. of course, there are several exceptions to the traditional frat im sure...there are nerd frats here and there, coed frats, etc that are by no means a "traditional fraternity," but traditional ones do exist. i hope that clarifies things for you. and FWIW, i'm currently a pledge at a "traditional fraternity" at an Ivy...and i'm really only speaking to what I've experienced of the Greek scene on my campus and what I've heard from friends at other Ivies.

 
Best Response

If you have 2 equally qualified candidates, you know the one with the leadership position at the fraternity had (a) a budget to take care of and/or (b) direct responsibility over a bunch of immature kids (which is not easy, I'll tell you).

My comments were a bit self-serving as I was a social chair at what would be considered a traditional house (by "traditional" I mean that it had a national affiliation and was "fratty"). I had to work with pledges and brothers to get parties planned and executed, had to stretch a budget to its absolute limit to get the best bang for our buck (we did), and was the point person with the school whenever something went awry during our parties (which taught me a ton about risk management and thinking quickly on my feet).

The business fraternities differ because the focus is not community but rather networking, they don't actually live in a house (which blows in my opinion), and attracted the kind of people that were all about themselves. By that I mean that they were turbo-networkers vs. the kind of people at my house that wanted to have a good time and try to make the school a bit better by doing charity functions and volunteering activities (may sound cheesy but every self-respecting house does community service if for no other reason than to stay on the good side of the administration).

If you disagree, I'd like to hear your point.

 

my business fraternity is by no mean a joke. the pledging was hardcore, only the people who are in it know what it's all about. other people treat it as a joke. I used to treat it as a networking club when i was a first year. with that said, my chapter is the only chapter that's legit. I'm met kids from numerous chapters and it's like jokes/clubs on most campuses. So if I ever see a kid listing his business fraternity on his resume, I will most likely treat it as horseshit unless it happens to be my specific chapter.

i keep it very separate with my traditional fraternity though. after all, there are two drastically different pledging processe. Given equal qualifications, I will prefer a kid who's in a traditional fraternity. he's probably better connected too. LOL. There are exceptions though. if you are in a fraternity in my alma mater that I don't like, you are screwed. simple as that. why? BAD FIT. banking/trading is all about fit once you demonstrate basic intelligence and an interest in the market.

 
untilted:
my business fraternity is by no mean a joke. the pledging was hardcore, only the people who are in it know what it's all about. other people treat it as a joke. I used to treat it as a networking club when i was a first year. with that said, my chapter is the only chapter that's legit. I'm met kids from numerous chapters and it's like jokes/clubs on most campuses. So if I ever see a kid listing his business fraternity on his resume, I will most likely treat it as horseshit unless it happens to be my specific chapter.

i keep it very separate with my traditional fraternity though. after all, there are two drastically different pledging processe. Given equal qualifications, I will prefer a kid who's in a traditional fraternity. he's probably better connected too. LOL. There are exceptions though. if you are in a fraternity in my alma mater that I don't like, you are screwed. simple as that. why? BAD FIT. banking/trading is all about fit once you demonstrate basic intelligence and an interest in the market.

Just curious, which school and business fraternity are you in?

Also, what do people think of Asian interest fraternities like Pi Alpha Phi and Lambda Phi Epsilon? Do you guys respect them as much as non-cultural based houses?

 

it depends, did you have a substantial position in the chapter? by that I mean exec committee, new member education, or recruitment? If yes, leave it on, because that experience is valuable. However, I think that if you leave it on and you didn't have any substantial involvement, if raises more questions than it should.

on staying in the chapter, every situation is different, I love my chapter, and you go through cycles just like anything else. I think staying the course through the tough times made my relationship with other guys in the chapter that much stronger. all of that said, we never had anything as serious as a death.

 

Seeing as you don't have much on your resume, leave it on, but distance yourself from the fraternity. You never know when you will interview someone who happens to be in another chapter or knows someone from your fraternity. You'll have a harder time explaining things to them. Move out of the house, don't come around often, make yourself scarce and focus in on everything else. Pay your semester out of house dues (I'm assuming you have them for out of house members) to take advantage of the some of the insurance coverage you get without you realizing it from your national organization and make things look normal.

 

The decision whether to stay in or not following the horrible tragedy you described should have nothing to do with your resume. Figure out what factors are important to that decision and make it.

Once that's done, figure out how to manage your resume. In the grand scheme of things, membership in a fraternity won't matter much from a resume standpoint. I've held multiple chapter and alumni leadership roles over the last 12 years, and still feel it's a very small component of my story.

As a final note, I'd be very careful about whether/how you mention that tragic experience in interviews. Anything that makes an interviewer uncomfortable carries a risk of alienating them and undermining your ability to establish rapport.

 

I think there are three types of statuses for current students (not alum). You can be active, inactive, or blacklisted/quit/whatever it's called. Why don't you just go inactive? You will still be part of the fraternity, but you can also distance yourself from all the activities, especially since you most likely have to be active to even go.

EDIT: Also, how would they know you dropped? Are you going to put the dates of membership?

 

It partially depends on if you had a meaningful position not something like historian or chaplain, and even if you were serving in an important role, I would still hesitate listing it. The reason being is that we're probably going hear about your fraternity brothers death if it involved nefarious circumstances attributable to your chapter.

I'm still an undergraduate student, but I'm not going to forget some shitty things that a couple former chapters from my own national fraternity have been involved in through the years and if I were an interviewer, I would hesitate giving members from said chapters an offer. Yes, this is an extreme example, but it only applies to the grimiest situations and I don't know specifics of your predicament..

 

Thanks for all of your input. To answer some of you, I do have a position, but not a 'high position' such as Pres./VP. And, I figured I had to put the dates of membership on my resume. Such as "Fall XX-Fall YY" ?

I'm just really torn. I care about my brothers, but on the other hand.. some of the "leaders" really messed up.

And, I can't go inactive. The way my chapter works is, "Either you're a member, or you're not".

Also, I completely agree with the sentiment that interviewers would get uncomfortable. I think that I could kind of be vague without them catching on by saying something along the lines of, "Some things happened that didn't align with my morals and I felt that it was my time to go" Would something like that work?

Pros of dropping: more free time to study, I can put my dues to other uses, I distance myself from the stuff that's going on Cons: I'd feel guilty for leaving my bros, and my resume(?)

 

So you crossed? I was in a similar situation myself (already crossed), I decided to not be in the fraternity anymore. That doesnt stop me from putting it on the resume though. If anything ever comes up I have to much proof that I was in the frat for years, although im pretty sure nothing will ever come up, no recruiters are ever gonna ask you whether you have been dropped or not; at most they will ask you what were ur positions in the frat/ things you did

 

Option 1, just become less active in the fraternity if you don't agree with the direction of the group. Every fraternity has people who are relatively not active and still get by.

 

I've never actually given a shit about reading someone was in a Fraternity. You must be really great at beer pong, which definitely prepares you for an actual job. C'mon guy, no one gives a shit.

Distance yourself from the bad PR and get some internships and actual volunteer work on your resume. As in... do something with your life and put that on your resume.

 

I disagree, if a person ever held an influential officer position at a reputable fraternity, then at the very least it would tell me that they can manage and direct a large group of egos, which means that person can communicate well and can handle pressure. What pressure, right? If you served as an officer you were not only accountable to your undergraduate brothers, but your alumni base, school administrators, other peoples parents and most importantly, the local police department.

Plus, it would tell me that you're probably not weird, so that's always nice.

 

I kind of agree with @archervice on this one. I was in a fraternity and was the president so I know the benefits and what it entails (especially with regard to dealing with the police and university) but I've never looked at a resume lacking a fraternity and thought anything is wrong with it. And like @dickfuld stated, it's much, much better to leave it off if there's negative press such as hazing a kid to death.

 

Personally, I think if you have/had leadership experience with your fraternity, I'd add it. As long as you can spin it to make you look like you actually contributed, it can't hurt. I had an interview last week and the interviewer kept asking me questions about my fraternity and what I did leadership-wise. He seemed interested in it, and I was able to elaborate on what I've done within the organization.

Now, if you're just a member and can only say, "I attended weekly meetings..." then I might not put it on there.

Just my .02. Good luck.

 
euroazn:

50 bucks says OP is a Pike.

Also the creator of this gem of a thread: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/when-youre-i...

No, I'm not a Pike, they were removed from my school for bad behavior I believe. I will not comment any further on what I am one way or another. However, that thread was a gem and it deserves 10,000 silver bananas, because chocolate milk is the best drink ever developed. It should not have the reputation as a kid's drink. In fact, drinking chocolate milk should be seen as a sign of manliness.

 

what type of companies do the industrials group cover? do they do transportation (e.g. airlines and stuff) it seems to me that it's like a catch all group that does everything that nobody else does...

btw can the moderator ban dan bush...

 

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