BB PWM or Boutique IBD?
Hey all,
I'm trying to finalize my plans for this summer. Just a little background, I'm a first year student (non-target) that is heavily leaning towards banking. I just wanted to ask how much value would a gig at a BB PWM (GS, JPM, MS type) provide over a boutique IBD shop (FIG focused boutique). I realize that BB names carry a lot of weight and could open up opportunities to network inside the firm. However, PWM seems to be a common and almost over-used path to banking. Would a boutique be better/offer more value in this case?
Since you're a first-year student and you have three summers free to do internships/study abroad, I would do the PWM this summer. At the least, it will give you exposure to another type of financial services. When you do end up as a SA for an ibank, you will have something to compare the experience to and know whether banking is right for you.
Just my two cents.
When you say BB PWM are you talking about an internship at a MS FA branch office?
If you're interested in banking then absolutely take the IB gig. There are tons of kids going into their soph/junior year with PWM experience, but only a minority who have banking experience. It'll absolutely make you stand out.
Lets say its not MS.
take boutique IBD
I'd do the banking route. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen, PWM offers little to no ability to network with real bankers in IBD and in fact most people look down on PWM. With the boutique IBD role, you'll have better experience and opportunity to land a BB internship the next year. That said, I think that TheDiscountRate makes a very good point that a PWM role will get you exposure to something else which is good. IBanking isn't for everyone so having a different perspective is valuable.
I'd still go with the boutique IBD role (I'm also assuming this is something like Moelis, Lazard, PJS, etc)
No this is not EB. Not a micro-boutique as they do have more than one office in different cities. FIG focused.
if top BB, id say take PWM, network there as it will be hard to get a summer anyway, but you will at least have better contacts and proven worth (well in a way) top brand such as GS will open bunch of doors and PWM is not bad job either
kill the internship of course
p.s. i am assuming that the boutique is a no-name
This depends on the boutique, are we talking a solid 20+ man shop that has decent deal flow or a 5 guy shop that occasionally does a 5mm sellside transaction? Is the PWM a paid role in a major city? I'd personally lean towards IB, but it is difficult to say without more details.
@jkim3381 I understood you to mean that you were weighing a top BB PWM internship versus a boutique IB shop. No disrespect to anyone working at a boutique, but it seems to me that bulge bracket banks really perk up when they see another BB name on a resume.
This guy/girl has two more shots at getting a summer internship in IBD... If it's not an elite boutique I really would go with the variety and name.
It would help if you mentioned what cities the internships are in, and the stature of the boutique. If the PWM is in a financial city, there is no excuse to not use it as a 10-week networking opportunity with every bank that has an office there. Also, what kind of "non-target" are you at? There's a difference between UNC and UIU, and this would impact how hardline your push for a 1st-year ibd internship should be.
@TheDiscountRate
Well, the name certainly carries a lot of weight. However, PWM just seemed very common and quite frankly a BS internship (I absolutely mean no offense to anybody in PWM). Let's assume that I would be doing more banking related things at the boutique, would the brand name outweigh actual experience in banking?
You didn't mention the locations of the jobs, but.. A PWM internship isn't easy to get. Especially at a top bank.
I just think you are going to get sick of banking before you ever start full-time.
@Khayembii made a good point about PE, but... coming from a non-target, it's my opinion that even with IB internships on your resume (unless they're EB or BB) it will be a hard sell.
What kind of non-target are we talking about here..?
I also want add something else. Would a banking summer gig look unusual for a freshman? I feel like going to PWM as a freshman would look more natural (albeit overdone). On the same note, I feel like I would be able to tell a story about how I progressed towards banking better with a PWM role compared to jumping right into banking. Anybody want to chime in on the "story" part of these internships? From what I know, getting that "story" perfect is pretty important for the interviews.
Why would you think having some kind of story about transitioning into banking is better than just going straight into it, if that's what you want to do?
Deal experience is what matters the most if you want to go into banking, and you're not going to get that in PWM. If you think you'll be able to work a deal at this bank, then do it. Next summer you'll be competing with summer internships at BB's with people who worked in BB PWM and had absolutely no deal experience. You'll stick out, in a good way. Also, it can help you jump over to PE sooner, though not at a mega fund.
Knowledgeable Certified User to the rescue!!!
Is the fig group sandler? If so take it for sure.
To me this is a no brainer. Absolutely take the boutique IB, assuming it's not a 2-man shitshow. Then for your soph summer, apply to the BB/EBs. If you don't land a BB/EB gig as a soph, try to get another boutique IB internship and go for it again junior year.
It would be completely absurd to pick PWM over IB if your end goal is IB. I had PWM experience with a 3.8+ at a target and barely got any interviews for SA. The kids with 3.8+ and boutique IB experience got all the interviews.
This shouldn't even still be up for debate.
Boutique IB.
This. Honestly, it doesn't matter if PWM is at GS; PWM is PWM. Banks give a lot more shits about what type of role you work in before your junior summer rather than the brand name of the institution if it's only in something like PWM. I worked at a boutique my sophomore summer, and I had no problems at all landing BB jobs my junior summer, even with a below average GPA.
The benefit of the boutique bank is twofold: 1.) You understand--even if at a superficial level--what the fuck banking actually is. If you're lucky, you'll see a deal in some stage or another; even if you don't, learning by osmosis is pretty valuable for a freshmen. You'll understand the different parts of the job, and at least become familiar with key concepts in banking. That is way more valuable than any PWM job, even if it's at GS/MS etc. And keep in mind, this is your freshman summer! That'll give you such a heads up next year for summer recruiting. 2.) It makes it so easy for you to answer the "why banking" question. So many people get tripped up on this - they don't have a good reason for going into banking other than money/prestige or the ever favorite "I am detail oriented and love to be challenged and learn fundamentals of corporate finance and I think banking would help me do all of that right out of college." Having worked at a bank already, you can tell them what specifically you liked doing and what more you'd like to learn. It makes you a much more engaging candidate.
Hope that helped. Let us know what you decide!
BB PWM vs. Boutique IB: Sophomore Internship (Originally Posted: 08/27/2014)
If the end goal is BB IB, which path is most common/makes the most sense? I would love to hear what some of you did for the internship after your sophomore year.
Boutique IB for sure.
Boutique IB. You might be tempted by the brand name of the BB PWM, but every MD/important person in the BB IB hiring process knows the BB PWM experience is not relevant.
Boutique IB. Literally anyone can get pwm
I work for a BB in PWM and can tell you firsthand that our internships are bullshit. go with IB.
the sole exception is if you're doing private banking at a firm like JPM, Goldman, CS, or DB. those internships are more like IB and more structured so the experience will be better than say if you're a "global wealth management intern" with Merrill Morgan or UBS.
edit: @"rogersterling59" please factcheck me, want to be sure I'm giving OP accurate info about PB.
This is correct. My bank's (one of the 4 mentioned) PB internship program is incredibly robust, pays the same as IB/S&T, and in addition to the work you are doing has an incredible number of market-oriented teach-ins and senior speakers from the firm and what not. My internship with my bank was so impressive, it is the reason I decided to join full time.
Given that his is your sophomore internship however, I would assume you are talking PWM, not PB. If you want to do BB IB definitely do the boutique internship. I feel that with your sophomore internship, what you learn matters more than name recognition. The fact that you gain modeling experience and the like at the boutique will resonate with a BB IB recruiter far more than the fact that you have 'Morgan Stanley' on your resume when they know all you did was cold call for a broker all summer.
thanks for all the feedback. appreciate it
Morgan Stanley PWM vs Boutique M&A? (Originally Posted: 10/17/2011)
Hey guys, I'm a Finance sophomore at a semi/non-target looking to go into IB.
I have the opportunity to do one of two internships. The first is for PWM with Morgan Stanley at one of their local offices, the second is with a local 8-person M&A firm.
Should I go with the name recognition or with the M&A role? Thanks in advance!
I would take the M&A internship
m&a bro
Take the M&A internship. PWM -- make sure it's not GWM, but pure PWM. Freshman year should be the PWM these days. Or high school.
For sure go with the M&A internship. You would rather have relevant experience rather than a big name any day of the week, especially PWM, which people recognize is a joke of an internship.
Absolute no brainer
Yep.
PWM is a stepping stone for IB internships. Skip it and do M&A
Excellent advice. Thank you all.
PWM Internship at Reputable Bank or Investment Banking at a Boutique(unknown)? (Originally Posted: 11/13/2014)
Hello all! Just look at the topic. I am looking at internships, and I am wondering if I should look at a PWM internship at a bank like BoA Merril Lynch/Wells Fargo or look at smaller local boutique investment banks. I want to be an investment banker. I am a sophomore at a target school if that means anything. Thanks in advance! Currently the only resume experience in finance I have is a Wealth Management/Insurance internship at Northwestern Mutual.
Aim for the boutique if you want to end up in IB.
do NOT do PWM internships if you have other alternatives. I know this is weird because I'm the resident PWM guy, but these internships are bullshit and people know that.
so you are saying i banking at any boutique is better than pwm internship? given i have the option?
Yes
absolutely
BB PWM or IB no name boutique Junior Fall? (Originally Posted: 05/12/2012)
Ill be a Junior next fall at a higher-end Semi Target. I had an internship during my last Spring semester at a merchant bank and will be completing a summer internship at a small boutique investment bank starting in a couple weeks.
The only problem is that both of these internships have been at no-name banks. My goal is BB IBD and was considering a BB PWM internship next fall just to get a BB name on my resume. I know that this is a step down in actual work, but im worried Ill get passed along during SA recruiting because I dont have any recognizable names on my resume.
Do you think I would benefit more by getting a second IB boutique internship in the Fall or BB PWM?
2nd boutique IB is 10x better than BB PWM.
they care wayyy more about seeing investment banking intern on your resume than a BB name
Merchant bank + 2 boutique IB > merchant bank + 1 boutique IB + BB PWM
It's not even close. You won't get passed down for not having a brand name, nor will the BB PWM brand name impress them.
You guys are thinking about this the wrong way. BB PWM. Here's why:
You've already had exposure to IBD, so I'm going to assume that have some idea of what you're getting into. But why not try PWM? You might actually like it. You might actually be better at it. You might realize its something you'd rather do- if not now, at least somewhere down the line.
Generally speaking, people shouldn't repeat life experiences needlessly, and especially ones as mundane, monotonous, and empty as banking. Even if you somehow knew that given all of your skills/traits/ and current options, that BB IBD is the "only way to go" (doubtful), I would still recommend not doing the internships and instead spending that entire time getting on the phone and networking. Plenty of people break in without a fall internship. Plenty of people break in without any finance background whatsoever.
Your goal should be to maximize the chances of finding something you're good at/like, and minimize the chances of "Fuck, I should have done that instead". Is another investment banking internship really going to help in that regard?
This is his Junior SA... The most important internship of his life. Do you think it's wise for him to backtrack and go fetch coffee and cold call? He needs to get more experience with valuation and formatting if he wants a FT IB offer.
I agree with finding what you're good at, but it's pwm. I did pwm my freshman summer at a bb. Don't do pwm. Just don't.....
This question has been exhausted already. Stop asking, any IBD over PWM all day.
OP, don't listen to a single word I say if anyone here can actually address, let alone refute any of the points I made.
Thanks. And gammaovertheta thanks for that last post it was informative. +1 SB
take the boutique IBD, especially if your goal is BB IBD. IBD internships on your resume let the analyst/recruiter know that you can do the work, you're interested in it/want to do it, and you can hit the ground running and are not someone who is "trying" banking to see if he/she likes it.
BB PWM vs boutique IBD for MBA? (Originally Posted: 11/09/2009)
Friend wanted to do consulting, couldn't get any consulting jobs. She's choosing between a top BB PWM (GS/MS/JPM) and a no-name boutique IBD. Eventually her goal is to get an MBA and switch to consulting. Given this, which choice will enhance her candidacy for business school 2~3 years down the line?
she should look at the specifics of both work situations
BB PWM should provide a good place to learn powerpoint (= what you do in consulting)
Boutique IB should learn a ton about how to do a deal because you have more responsibility at a smaller place (= things consultants should know how to do)
pick boutique IB. Investment banking on resume > pwm.
I think she should seriously consider BB PWM if her ultimate goal is going to a top MBA. The reason being that just because you do banking does not guarantee you a spot. Diversity is important from those schools so they would rather choose the best people from a wide range of fields and not just fill their schools with bankers...At least this is what I have heard from friends in MBA.
On the same note, I think each has its benefits in relation to consulting. BB PWM could help her make an argument about her background in team-oriented situations and how she was required to know a wide range of topics such as in consulting. On the other hand, banking would show she can handle the workload and do some heavy lifting in terms of excel and company analysis.
Just because it is IB does not mean it is > than all
PWM vs. Boutique IB-- Internship leverage (Originally Posted: 08/01/2011)
Right now I'm having trouble deciding between which option gives me better opportunities.
Do I take a paid PWM internship at a BB, or do I take an unpaid IB internship at a small, little-known boutique?
I want to work in IB eventually
Thoughts?
TAKE THE IB INTERNSHIP if you had to choose between both. Or try to do one after the other.....
PWM at a BB would look good a resume... however from what I've read moving from PWM to IB in that company is ridiculously hard so that's one thing to consider. For the unpaid IB internship, how unknown is the boutique? Where is it located?
Uhmmmm, do the IB internship. If you want to do IBD, then learn to do that. PWM just says you couldn't get anything else but wanted to score an A for effort.
It's a firm in midtown. it's too small for me to learn DCF and whatnot... especially because deals are so small that they are only evaluated for the short future, but I would have direct exposure to deal making and the research involved.
1) What year are you?
2) I have friends doing BB PWM internships right now and they don't seem to enjoy it much. They all want IB. I know for sure one guy would slave for free to get an IB internship on his resume.
3) I've heard a BB PWM is good on your resume because it shows you're wanted by BBs. One has cleared you to not be insane and thus the others might be more willing to bite.
4) IF you're a sophomore, you might consider the BB PWM. If you absolutely kill it you might get handed a nifty piece of paper that asks what division you want to work in next.
5) Final note/idea: Don't discount or diminish the work experience you would do at a small firm. Most likely you will be dealt more responsibility than your counterparts at a BB, be forced to own your assignments and gain relevant/valuable banking experience.
IB are you kidding? Experience triumps cash/big name
@ God of Wine
I'm going to be a junior. As you pointed out, I'm really just stuck because I feel like having a BB name on my resume will look good. Also, a large factor is that interning there will set me up for next summer before senior year in a legit program. If I don't put my foot in that door, I fear I may never get that opportunity given that I'm a liberal arts major with a 3.2 gpa at NYU.
I already work at an Asset Management shop which I find extraordinarily dull. I have come to terms that PWM won't be much better, but it also is at one of the top BBs, and I'll be working with one of the top groups within the firm. I was thinking I could leverage that to something better.
Nevertheless I really want to do IB, mainly for the fact that it's a high-strung job that is actually rewarding and interesting. I can't see many of the other fields being quite the same...
Any more thoughts?
Just like what everyone else said, do the IB internship - exposure is more important than anything else.
also i feel like youre focusing on the big name of the firm more than anything, smaller things can pack bigger punches sort to speak.
Boutique IB and PWM (Originally Posted: 04/05/2014)
I was lucky enough to get a boutique IB internship this summer and can't wait to start. I spoke to the analyst that helped me get the job and he told me that it won't be for the entire summer (likely early May to around half way through July).
There's a BB PWM firm across the street from the investment bank. Would you guys think it makes sense to try to get a job there for the other part of the summer? Are there any other interesting opportunities people would recommend that would teach me a new and possibly applicable skill finance-related? By the way, I live in a major metropolitan area (think Chicago, SF, LA), so there are literally a billion resources everywhere.
Thanks in advance.
I think 2.5 months is a fine length for an internship.. I wouldn't stress about getting another internship in mid July
I like the hustle.
Definitely try for it. I don't think a PWM internship would do much after an IB internship, honestly.
MS pwm or no name boutique ibd? (Originally Posted: 10/13/2010)
Which has better exit ops?
Morgan Stanley pwm fulltime or
boutique ibd but has no name and its about 10 people
Probably depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking to transition into BB IB, or PE (which would be difficult from a boutique IB shop) then the IB is the way to go. You will get better hands-on training and my experience is that in a small shop you will have a lot more responsibility than at a larger place.
That being said, PWM will give you a solid name on the resume and will probably be a better lifestyle but transitioning into IB or PE from there would be tough. Nothing wrong with doing PWM for a living though... less money but a far more enjoyable lifestyle. If you are the only analyst at a boutique IB you could get seriously crushed a lot of the time.
Boutique IBD. If the MS thing is actually PWM and not wealth management, then maybe depending on MS's structure, you could hop over to banking after two years, otherwise the boutique is better. You could go back to b school after two years or go to a MM PE shop, or you could lateral to a MM or BB in a few years.
Your experience at the Boutique will set you apart far more than a PWM style..rather it be for bschool, or any other career
boutique IB will not get you into PE in general (yes there are exceptions but they are VERY few and far between) even if you get decent deal exposure, but will help you jump to banking later on at a brand name firm more than MS Wealth management
this is assuming unknown boutique IBs, obviously leaving out top boutiques, well known MMs etc
BB PWM or Boutique for Summer? (Originally Posted: 04/16/2012)
Just wondering what would be best to try and secure a FT role in IB next year after I graduate. I know that obviously working at the Boutique will help me develop more relevant skills but there is very little chance of getting a FT job there. So will the 'prestige' and name of the BB help when trying to secure a full time job next year?
Just looking for any advice, I'm really not sure atm and ha e to make a decision pretty soon for both of them.
Cheers.
I'd go with BB.
The skills and experience you get in boutique IB will be much more relevant and helpful for FT recruiting than BB PWM. Even if your boutique is not hiring FT, you can use that experience to at least land interviews at other banks.
BB PWM is helpful early in college to show your interest in finance, but there are tons of offices and lots of kids do this so it wont really set you apart for recruiting.
Boutique IB for sure. Most people do BB PWM. The typical progression is BB PWM --> Boutique IB --> BB IB. Why not skip the first step if you can?
I'd say boutique as well - notaspammer has a good point. You're taking an extra step given your options.
Was in the same position previously. I went with boutique and feel it was a great decision.
Go for the experience. I vote for boutique.
Oh just realized the boutique is an IB position. Then I'd go for IB if the boutique is reputable. No point working for a no-name start-up random boutique though.
Boutique.
boutique definitely. it also shows your interest in investment banking, and it's way easier to get interviews/spin your story with banking experience.
IB Boutique or UBS pwm (Originally Posted: 12/12/2007)
I have an offer to intern at a regional IB Boutique and a UBS pwm office. I am going to intern at the IB from January to April. I can either go back or work at UBS pwm for the summer. The IB only has a public finance division. Any thoughts?
IMHO, pwm internships don't add much value
and to clarify, that's in terms of skills acquired, relevant to IB.
To get into banking or get into a bigger bank it's best to get as close as possible. Boutique banking is far closer to "real banking" than PWM. I've had friends who have done PWM and no one seems to have a great opinion of it.
When do you have to respond to UBS by? Perhaps you can see how your internship goes in the first few weeks and base your decision off that?
Take the boutique. PWM is completely irrelevant to IB and it'll add so little when interviews come around next time. Don't get fooled by the 'go for the big name' gig.
Thanks for advice. What is the majority opinion on the public finance groups? Is starting analyst pay greatly different?
how about UBS Global Asset Management or IB(M&A)Boutique for summer a internship?
I would appreciate any help?
sorry for a summer internship
ma all day...
here's why:
you may do IB and realize you hate it. If you try to go PWM full time they'll really respect IB exp. A bank won't give 2 shits about PWM.
(I know I did internships with both)
While my PWM internship helped get to the botique, PWM will RARELY help you get into banking.
I've never heard of anyone not landing a job because they had IB on their resume...
IB
Unless you want to be a financial advisor, trying to get old doctors to fork over their money to you and advising people on their 401ks, take the IB. Unless your fortunate enough to work in ultra-high net work advisory, you likely face a long slog to build a list of decently wealthy clients ($1m-5m per acct.) and over the years (if your good) you'd probably max out making $1m-$2m per year in your late 50s (not to mention fees keep getting squeezed). Before you even start getting your own clients, you'll have to work as a glorified secretary for a few years, processing stuff for your boss (I interned at UBS PWM one summer so I've seen this myself).
Even though the IB firm sucks, you could always go back and get an MBA and upgrade firms, or just do so laterally without the MBA if you make some good connections. The work will also probably be more interesting, even if its only public finance.
ib will open more doors than one can imagine. ie, hf,pe...
congrats to you on both offers. though i have to say it seems to be a recurring theme of ppl interested in IB getting these PWM internships for the name (as a frosh)---obviously these ppl are not interested in PWM, so why do firms take them anyway versus other qualified candidates that want to actually do PWM (or does no one really want to)... are these ppl just good at BS-ing their way into the job?
it seems pretty clear that they're just using the PWN internship for leverage into IB---it just doesn't make sense to me that the firm would be willing do this yr after yr
thoughts?
BB PWM and Boutique IB Internship (Originally Posted: 05/12/2013)
Hi Monkeys,
I have been interning at a local boutique IB for a year now. It has been a great, albeit unpaid, experience.
I may have a paid internship opportunity in PWM for a BB, and I am wondering if I should take it while continuing to work for the IB.
My MD has never cared about face time and allows me to do almost all my work from home. He doesn't see the point in chaining yourself to a desk when you can perform many work-related tasks from a cafe or dorm room.
I think I should be able to swing both internships at the same time, since only one of them will require me to be there everyday in person.
Does anyone see any downside to taking the PWM internship for FT IBD recruiting? I feel that it dilutes my "why investment banking" story, but I really need to start making a little bit of money for upcoming student loan repayment.
Thanks for the help.
Are you getting good deal experience at the unpaid IB?
If you are, the PWM experience is unnecessary. Above all, if you can keep your GPA high, tackling 2 internships is definitely a plus for you.
Btw - The PWM experience will most likely be BS, the pay aside.
I am getting pretty good experience at the IB.
At first it was a lot of research and qualitative stuff. The entire gig is unstructured, as I'm sure most boutiques are, so I have been able to really push for assignments that I want. There is no rigid hierarchy. I have built a couple of comps models, a precedent transaction model, and I have just started building a DCF for a new client that we landed last week. I also edit some marketing material, research strategic acquirers, and other random stuff.
My GPA is a 3.5 cumulative, 3.6 major at a non target, and I was able to maintain that with 20 semester credits while working ~ 25-30 hrs a week at the IB during school. I won't have any school this summer, so I don't have to worry about a GPA.
I actually know with a high degree of certainty that the PWM internship will mostly be fluff, I just want to start making some money to put towards rent, recreation, and student loans.
It seems to me that the pros would be a brand name on my resume and pay, while the cons would be its irrelevancy to IB and the additional time.
Couldn't you just tell your interviewer you took the PWM gig because you needed money and instead of working retail or something you decided to do something quasi finance related? How can you argue with that?
There won't be any cons if you don't put it on your resume.
Irregardless, you should do the internship and put it on your resume.
IB experience + Experience of working in a BB = In a great shape for IBD recruitment
Take it, kudos on the job man. Really impressive.
I would do both. You will have no personal life then
Well, if he really did 20 semester credits and worked 25-30 hrs per week, I don't think having a life was a major concern lol
But def do both. Loans are no joke, it is nice to be able to make money while also getting IB experience.
Thanks for the advice guys. I will do both.
Also, to respond to the previous two comments, I did have some semblance of a social life during the semester. I was able to go out 1-2 times per week, go to the gym 4 times per week, and rock climb with friends 1-2 times per week. A lot of it just came down to scheduling time effectively and efficiently.Working from home also saves a ton of time. You don't have to commute, you can multitask with things that aren't related to work (i.e. doing laundry while writing a report), etc.
If you do both though, it may dilute the impact of having an IB internship on your resume. If the recruiter/interviewer sees that you did both, it may seem as if neither of the internships were very demanding.
Boutique I-bank vs. Merrill PWM Internship (Originally Posted: 05/20/2010)
I'm a college senior in my last semester and after cold-calling and searching for numerous internship opportunities I finally landed two and I'm having a tough time deciding which one to go with.
One is with a small local boutique Investment Bank that's concentrated in local capital market transactions and advisory banking and the other is at Merrill Lynch PWM. I'm kind of leaning towards the IB route since it seems I'd get more practical experience but I also am hesitant in ditching ML being that it is a reputable name and counts as credit for school. Any guidance or suggestions?
IBD is always > PWM.
I'd suggest that you base your decision on what you would rather do if your internship opportunity was turned into a FT offer.
PMW and IB have virtually nothing in common. PWM is a combination of three skill sets: A. ER B. investment advice/portfolio theory and C. client smooze ie client service ie sales. ( I guess you could say IB MD's use skill set C on their potential clients, but on the analyst/associate level PWM has nothing in common with IB)
Hours are less than 12 per day and the intensity of deadline of IB is not there EXCEPT for occasions involving client smooze. Pay scale and bonuses are significantly less on a level by level comparison.
Do your own due diligence on the differences and use it as a guide.
If you want banking, do banking.
I can read books and guides detailing what each industry entails but I'll never be 100% sure until I get first hand experience. Based on reading alone, the underlying aspects of both banking and wealth management seem appealing to me, allure and glamour of banking aside. I just want to choose the option which provides the most valuable learning experience and provides the best advancement opportunity in whatever given track I may choose to pursue in the future.
It depends on the boutique. The only reason to go into banking is to work on live transactions. If, however, you will be relegated to pitch work and the boutique hasn't closed very many deals in the past year, relative to its peers by either deal volume or aggregate deal value, then I would go to BAML.
You can parlay a PWM internship into a FT position in other areas at the bank or another BB.
I did a PWM internship at Merrill, and let me tell you-- go with the i-bank. In a PWM internship you will be doing useless office work like making copies and looking up company tickers from 1970. I agree that if the boutique does not do very many deals, go with PWM. BTW I did mine in Colorado, maybe the PWM at Merrill here different compared to where you are? If I could have landed the summer internship at the boutique in CO (St. Charles Capital) I would have taken it with NO QUESTIONS ASKED. That said, I did eventually get a job in equity research at a large bank and leverage the PWM internship as much as possible.
Merrill does not hire out of undergrad for PWM. Look up PWM too...it is more difficult to build up your business than you think. Finally, go to glassdoor.com and they have ratings and more commentary on PWM internships at Merrill.
He's right. I did one as well. It was basically worthless other than clarifying to people that I wanted to work in finance and was willing to pay my dues. I-banking is dues paying as well, but you are learning more and it serves as a better stepping stone to countless opportunities if you find it's not for you (definitely more so than PWM).
PWM internships depend on the group. Some of my friends did them, and they would cold call all damn day. I did one, and I did pretty awesome stuff, got to talk to clients a lot and actually did research that helped the group do its job, not useless crap like make copies and look up old tickers.
Gotcha, well thanks for the insight everyone. I think I'm going to go with the I-bank as I go in for my final interview on Monday.
Internship at small IB firm or PWM internship at Recognized Company (Originally Posted: 04/14/2015)
Hello fellow monkeys,
Which internship should I go with: IB firm started a couple of years ago with around 10 employees or a PWM internship at a recognized company like Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs?
Thank you.
Experience over name.
I work at a PWM with a recognized name: go with the small IB shop.
What do YOU want to do? Do you want to work in IB - then do the IB. Do you want to work at a prestigious institution regardless in which department - do the PWM.
Citi PWM Internship or Small Investment Bank Internship (Originally Posted: 08/16/2009)
Hey All,
I am deciding between two choices for a fall internship.
I could do a paid internship at Citi Private Wealth Management.
OR
I could do an unpaid IB internship at a small investment bank in NYC.
Which of the choices give me a better chance of landing a full time analyst position at a BB bank when I graduate? I prefer IB over PWM, but Im wondering if Citi's reputation gives me an edge over an unknown small investment bank.
Thanks in advance!
Assuming you network, saleable skillset is far and away more important than brand name on your resume.
Small IB, though brand name matters a lot, as most IB recruiters are prestige whores.
~Semper Fi Bankerfuckers~
Thanks for the replies so far, really appreciate it.
My school's not prestigious. If I cannot land a full time IB when recruiting season comes, which experience out of the two would give me a better shot at other divisions at a BB bank or a reputable company?
Portfolio management, research analyst, advisory.
Which internship should I take: PWM at BB or M&A at smaller firm? Looking to break into IB. (Originally Posted: 11/20/2017)
I attend a nontarget, UCI, and I have two options: PWM internship at MS or M&A internship at a smaller firm, Harvey and Company.
I would definitely take M&A at Harvey & Co, despite not knowing much about the firms rep
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/harvey-company-newport-beach
You should really do your homework before accepting a job offer. All I did was search the company name on WSO and found the above. Harvey and Company isn't an investment bank. I'd go with PWM at MS easily
Good point. If that thread is still accurate, you're probably splitting hairs. In general it's better to do the more applicable experience even at a smaller firm.
Thanks for the input. I did see that thread beforehand, but I still wanted to know if the internship at Harvey was worth it despite the information given in that thread.
PWM BB
1st internship MM PWM vs M&A boutique (Originally Posted: 09/15/2016)
Just wondering which internship would look better on my cv once I'm applying to a BB or PE boutique.
If you want to do IB, M&A boutique without a shadow of a doubt
^nuff said
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