Sorry, lol.

I've also seen your comments quite frequently in historical HF threads. Care to spread a little advice/knowledge? As I said, I'd appreciate it if you could suggest which units of study are vital for someone looking for a career in quant investments/HF. Also, do you know anything regarding the environment for quant employment in Australia?

Cheers.

 

didn't read ur post fully... but it sounds like u want to take the quantitative trading route.

i think a CS degree would be ideal, with heavy emphasis on statistical methods and machine learning as part of ur electives - maybe do a minor in math.

and honestly, learn to be succinct asap. i also used to be wordy years ago until @"Bondarb" pointed it out. people on the buyside usually have short attention spans so thats more important than ur major.

 

OK. Here is what you need to keep your options open for a grad degree:

More important for you in undergrad:

-More advanced economic or financial modeling and getting the applications of math in finance/Econ - a derivatives, economic policy/modeling, or behavioral finance class would be helpful. -Calculus through Multivariable -Calculus Based Statistics or Calculus Based Probability -Linear Algebra -Programming of some sort

Not quite as important, but if you or someone else has that list checked off, these become important: -Discrete Math -Machine Learning or AI -Differential Equations -Real Analysis

 
QGKZ:

Thanks for the response, IP! I appreciate it.

Is it possible, by any chance, to gain employment at a quant HF with just an undergrad?

Yes. Oftentimes the story in this industry (as well as on the sellside) is that you start off as a developer and move towards more quantitative responsibilities as your career progresses if you have the ability. An advanced degree often helps a great deal but is not a hard and fast requirement.

Every year, our fund hires 10-15 undergrads, the vast majority with CS or CE backgrounds, most from top tier state schools (UMich, Berkeley, UT, UIUC) with some engineering colleges (CMU, MIT, Stanford) and Ivies in the mix. Our competitors do the same although the weights might look different in New York. We find that some of our best developers and best quants come from schools that banks do not go to to recruit bankers. One of the smartest guys on our team is from UIC (that's University of Illinois Chicago for you easterners).

So if you get a CS degree today, it could be possible to break in from a school at the level of Berkeley or UT. You are less likely to break into the US from a foreign school, however, and I can't comment on the Australian market.

Things in your way:

-You need a STEM degree- either grad school or undergrad (MFEs and Finance and Econ PhDs with massive stats backgrounds also qualify) and you need to be near the top of your game. A finance undergrad w/ CS minor will not cut it, nor will the average developer who graduates from a good school. -You will not be doing QR stuff right away without an MS or a PhD. -I rarely see campus hires hired into US roles from foreign schools.

You can obviously try for a domestic hedge fund, but I'd finish the math courses outlined above, aim for Macquarie or a major US, UK, or Swiss bank, and think about a US MFE in two three years. Equity Research, Portfolio Research, or Commodity/Rates research would be ideal. These are all very different roles but they all give you different tools to bring to the buyside. Or it may be that you are making so much money on the sellside that you don't want to waste two years on an MFE.

I wish I could tell you that there was a QR job at Renaissance waiting for you upon graduation, but I think you're best served by banging out the math classes, spending a few years on the sellside, doing an MFE, and then getting all of these responsibilities for analytics, signal development, portfolio management/analysis when you get out. That's the stuff you got into this industry for- not shaving microseconds off of trades.

Either that or get a Finance PhD in the US or UK.

You have a couple routes in. I don't see this happening straight out of undergrad although it's possible. Take some math classes, keep doing what you're doing, and let's talk about an MFE once you have a few years at a BB.

 
Best Response

While I don't work in the quant space, I did interview with some firms while in undergrad. @"IlliniProgrammer" summed it up nicely. I have a degree in Philosophy, but have a decent working knowledge of Java/Python and took classes like Time Series Analysis, Linear Algebra, Abstract Algebra, Game Theory, etc. I went to a LAC so I didn't have a hard finance background, so I struggled with actually applying these topics to finance (which is key). To echo what has already been said: get a STEM major and MFE (or even MBA..?) to position yourself well. I know someone who landed a quant research role at Fidelity at the MBA level (but that might just be because Wharton is known to be quant heavy).

 

Excellent advice! Thank you IP and Nkhanlegend.

In regards to programming, I will be putting in as much time as I possibly can into learning C++ outside of university. I will be purchasing a number of quantitative finance books from the quantnet recommended reading list and books on C++ will be amongst them.

 

Don't be too impatient about all of this. Long term greed tends to work out better than short term greed.

Jobs in finance typically don't last 40 years, but careers still do. So your first job probably won't be your last job. People have been talking about how you no longer need sellside experience to work on the buyside, but it helps big time. So does an advanced degree. Data analysis is a bit more precious than the skillset required for a traditional banking job, but it can be gotten from anyone with a STEM degree. Insight about how a market or industry works, and how to separate out different components of a price, is a valuable commodity. Experts tend to have pretty nice lives- a STEM degree helps you get there but it's not over at that point.

Get two or three years of experience working in one group on the sellside, focusing on a specific product, sector, or perhaps the dynamics of a specific market. After that, get an MFE, and become the Australia/NZ/Pacific expert at a US global multi strategy quant fund. The MFE programs will love the fact that you have an Australian passport and BB experience. Assuming you also take those math classes, you will be a clear admit at Berkeley, UChicago, and Cornell and will be a serious candidate at Princeton, CMU, NYU, and Columbia.

With an MFE at a top tier school, you will probably get passed over by DE Shaw and Renaissance (they rarely hire MFEs), but Citadel, Jump, Getco, Spot, Sun, AQR, Bridgewater, Kepos, and Two Sigma will see your prior experience and will all want to talk to you.

 

I honestly can't thank you enough for your knowledge and wisdom! I really appreciate it.

I'm keen to pursue a postgraduate degree from one of the top institutions you've listed.

Do you think a BB ER role is a good path for a quant after graduation? I already have a network in place but it seems like ER wouldn't be a good quant role, since it is heavily fundamental, rather than quantitative?

 
QGKZ:

I honestly can't thank you enough for your knowledge and wisdom! I really appreciate it.

I'm keen to pursue a postgraduate degree from one of the top institutions you've listed.

Do you think a BB ER role is a good path for a quant after graduation? I already have a network in place but it seems like ER wouldn't be a good quant role, since it is heavily fundamental, rather than quantitative?

ER is OK; commodity/fixed income or portfolio strategy/quant research (usually also in a firm's research division) would be better if you can get it. The best would be a more hybrid role where you work in QR but focus on a specific sector- or are the quant for an ER team.

You want to gain industry insight but you also want to be able to put an analytical framework around that.

 

Quis corporis dignissimos ea quo molestias reiciendis sunt. Dolor labore asperiores numquam. Aspernatur incidunt delectus veritatis laboriosam quis dolor. Magni explicabo eum aut necessitatibus minus odit. Voluptates aut dolor eos tempora voluptatem non.

Perspiciatis accusamus et omnis nulla in vel asperiores. Iste rerum libero optio alias culpa quisquam. Aut sapiente ea iusto iste sed est odio.

Illo quos et veniam amet quis porro accusantium. Reprehenderit aut est consequuntur maiores. Eius sunt architecto maxime est quibusdam alias cumque. Impedit quas temporibus dolore molestias molestiae.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Point72 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.9%
  • Magnetar Capital 96.8%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • AQR Capital Management 94.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Magnetar Capital 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.8%
  • Blackstone Group 96.8%
  • Two Sigma Investments 95.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • AQR Capital Management 99.0%
  • Point72 97.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 96.9%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.8%
  • Magnetar Capital 94.8%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Portfolio Manager (9) $1,648
  • Vice President (23) $474
  • Director/MD (12) $423
  • NA (6) $322
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (24) $287
  • Manager (4) $282
  • Engineer/Quant (71) $274
  • 2nd Year Associate (30) $251
  • 1st Year Associate (73) $190
  • Analysts (225) $179
  • Intern/Summer Associate (22) $131
  • Junior Trader (5) $102
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (249) $85
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”