EuroMonkey:
Not too old at all. Seen a 28 year old start as an analyst. Do the job and no questions will be asked.

Seen a 28yr old start as well... hope we're not at the same place, dont wana come across my analyst class here... Also, graduates who get hired from Germany tend to be older than their English counterparts (think 24-27)

 

The most important thing is your personal attitude toward this: if you're fine with it, others won't mind, given you're an OK guy who clicks with the others. If you're uncomfortable working under associates who are younger than you, you're in trouble.

 

At my bank several people in my analyst class are older than 22-23. In some cases it is because they are international students who took a few years to be allowed to study in the US. In others it is just because they did Big 4 accounting for two years before deciding to switch to banking.

Either way, in most cases, without people actually telling us their age, it is very difficult for us to figure out. The only problem is that the older you are, the more likely you are to have a family, and unfortunately, having a family and the analyst lifestyle simply are not compatible.

 

Oldest starting analyst I knew was a 34 year old. Made a total career switch from healthcare to i-banking at BB. Don't think she had family to take care of, so no lifestyle issues.

 
rock wheeler:
what about analysts who are younger than the average age (1st years who are 20). does anyone foresee this having any impact on a prospective career in IB

as long as you're good at your job, the most that can happen is that you'll get made fun of.

if you're a shitty analyst, you will get made fun of and talked about more.

otherwise it will not have an impact whatsoever.

its just really awkward/really funny (depending on whether the underage person is you or not) when the whole group goes out for a drink. the underage person ends up being at the end of the line with the senior md. everyone else is in but the underage person gets stopped and then hilarity ensues when the underage person has to explain that he/she is underage. senior md stands there with goofy/confused look on their face.

 

They often have SAs under the legal drinking age and find a way to include them in social events. One friend said he just had to wear a wristband at the bar

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
Denver Monkeyannabe:
They often have SAs under the legal drinking age and find a way to include them in social events. One friend said he just had to wear a wristband at the bar

Did they call it a go home alone band?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

25 is fine, seen many people do it. With people at work age soon becomes irrelevant - who cares if you start at 22 or 27. In fact, I have no idea how old any of my co-workers are, and it doesn't matter - in the grand scheme of things, you can have 35-year old MBAs make a career switch into 1st year associate roles and you can have 25-year old internal promotes. That's a 10-year difference and same position, but as long as you do the work, no one will care.

 

I think the average age of 1st years is definitely trending downwards especially for IBers. HBS is really pushing their 2+2 initiative and it looks like other elite B-schools will have to follow suit. I think the problem was that B-schools were passing up a lot of talent by requiring 5-6 years of work experience. By that time they had already passed on everyone who decided to go to Law/Med/PhD school right out of UG. I hope by the time I'm ready to go to B-school (if i have to), 2-3 years experience and a solid GMAT will be more than enough.

 
roberto:
So say your at a boutique/MM, think Stifel, Needham, Jefferies, etc, would it be hard to do IB>PE>MBA>PE?

No, it wouldn't necessarily be that hard, and in fact it's advisable to get pre-MBA experience in PE if you have aspirations of doing PE after business school. A lot of time, people think that a top business school will open the gates to private equity. In fact, that's not quite true. Yes, top business schools have a higher rate of feeding into post-MBA PE, but that's just driven by the people that had PE experience before their MBA.

The bigger challenge, of course, will be to get a quality PE gig before the MBA.

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
 
hungry:
Idk. I don't start my first year til July so I'm not exactly credible. That being said I read this board like a crack addict and what I've garnered is MM IB places into MM PE if you're well connected with MDs. You have a good chance of making it into megafund PE out of a good B-school.

haha man sounds as though this blog is like kracky kremes, but yup i agree with you.

and yar from IB to PE and lots of networking.. that should help

 

As far as age goes, how can getting an MBA at, say, Harvard with little or limited work experience be economic for all parties involved? Presumably, during "normal" economic times, you've got top companies recruiting at these schools looking for top candidates and willing to pay out handsome sums of money for them; therefore, it is economic for MBA candidates to spend and forego upwards of $200,000+ on an MBA. But if these candidates haven't got the legitimate credentials (i.e. actual knowledge) to command managerial or associate-level roles and, therefore, high salaries, how can this be a good economic decision for candidates? How can this be a good decision for business schools when they are, no doubt, producing a lower quality candidate (by virtue of lack of experience)? And how can this be beneficial to companies who recruit at these schools?

Array
 

Don't worry. The math doesn't compute for anyone unless you look 10+ years into the future. The fully-baked opportunity cost is actually closer to $1 MM for PE associates.

 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
As far as age goes, how can getting an MBA at, say, Harvard with little or limited work experience be economic for all parties involved? Presumably, during "normal" economic times, you've got top companies recruiting at these schools looking for top candidates and willing to pay out handsome sums of money for them; therefore, it is economic for MBA candidates to spend and forego upwards of $200,000+ on an MBA. But if these candidates haven't got the legitimate credentials (i.e. actual knowledge) to command managerial or associate-level roles and, therefore, high salaries, how can this be a good economic decision for candidates? How can this be a good decision for business schools when they are, no doubt, producing a lower quality candidate (by virtue of lack of experience)? And how can this be beneficial to companies who recruit at these schools?

To my knowledge, the 2+2 initiative is one that is being forwarded by a lot of professors with the specific intention of increasing the quality of candidates. To me it makes a lot of sense. Aside from the fact that you aren't passing up on a lot of talent that would otherwise be headed to law school and the like, you get more enthusiastic students who are willing to learn.

Professors at HBS noticed that older MBA candidates were overtly cynical and less open to being taught than their younger counterparts. As a result, younger MBAs came out with an all around better experience and took more away from their courses than the older ones. As an IB, I'd rather be hiring a starry-eyed 26 yr old associate than a cocky 30 yr old who already thinks he's the shit. Associates, and mid-level managers for that matter, aren't going to be able to dive into the job immediately after school and kill it Jack Welch style. As they should, B-schools are moving towards aiming at churning out MBAs with strong potential to lead rather than MBAs with a high amount of previous leadership experience willing to pay $100k+ for just another reason to look down on people.

 

Wow, that's dumb, IMHO. I'm 24 going on 25 and can't imagine handing over managerial roles or associate roles to a 26-year-old with 2 years experience (if that--I know a guy at HBS with 1). I would also never pay that guy what I would a 30 something (meaning, I don't see the economic benefit to the MBA candidate, unless companies are..). The fact is, especially for men, maturity levels are radically different in the early 30s compared to mid-20s, not to mention basic business knowledge and expertise in the field.

Again, I don't see how the economics work. I'm very skeptical that the other MBA programs will follow suit en masse. I think HBS is whiffing on this one the way their endowment fund has whiffed recently.

I'd also say that the cynicism among older candidates is well placed, which is why it would seem to me they'd make superior students--knowledgeable people working off knowledgeable people. Not to mention the fact that I'd much prefer networking with someone who has, ya know, accomplished something in their lives other than getting a high GPA and GMAT. School and making $ are not similar at all.

Array
 

Good points. But in IB, if you start an analyst stint right out of UG and do an A-->A after 3 years that puts you at around 26. At this point you have exactly the same responsibilities as an incoming MBA with 5-7 years of experience. Clearly SOME 20 somethings are up to the task of taking on a managerial role at least within banking. Firstly the 2+2 gig isn't for everyone, and secondly it's HBS. They are basically cherry picking the best of the best before anyone else can. Essentially this is just a really really early decision program. Out of necessity, with the same fervor that UG programs adopted the early decision process, other B-schools will have to do the same.

 

I see what you're saying, but the 26-year-old becoming an associate in your example has 3-4 years of experience, not 1 with 2 years of additional schooling. I'm just very skeptical that the other MBA programs will largely follow HBS' lead on this one--I can just hear the cries of the recruiting firms who are looking for mid-level recruits but being offered entry-level candidates who are demanding premium salaries as a result of their prohibitive student loan debt. The economics just don't appear to work.

I will leave room to say this--I could very well be wrong. Maybe there is an economic incentive I am overlooking and maybe other programs will follow suit. I have been wrong in the past. And certainly my own biases come into play (my nearly 3 years of experience have helped me personally untold amounts, but I may have been even more immature than average).

Array
 

You are comparing maturity levels of men (mere mortals) to HBS students (Herculean gods). While im kidding, you do have to take into account that the types of people who get into these programs are generally the best and the brightest or at least the most focused and capable from an academic perspective. These people have spent their entire lives building a stellar track record, which is generally difficult to do if you are as you said, immature. None of this is entirely true when I consider my friends who are attending or have attended HBS, those fking maniacs.

B-schools are trending lower in an effort to target kids who may otherwise focus on other fields (i.e. medicine, law, entrepreneurship). I think everyone involved is better off when students have at least 3 years of work experience for the various reasons mentioned above.

 
roberto:

Time again I have heard of these BB analysts going to top MBA's after being an analyst. So a 24-25 year old first year MBA out of IB. Compare this to the average age-If you're trying to get into an MBA, having IB experience def helps....am I not right?

MBA programs look to round out their classes with diverse backgrounds and experiences. A 2yr analyst applying to top-MBA programs are a dime a dozen...especially lately. You have to bring more to the table than just that.

I understand a school's desire to attract more prospective students by lowing its experience requirement, but in my experience the youngest kids (24-25) are typically the ones who bring the least to the classroom. Thus lowering the overall quality of the education.

 

Do you have a family? The main problem is that you would be pulling 100-hour week in your next three years and your family relationship will suffer because of this. Make sure to ask yourself what is important to you.

 

Average US analyst in NYC: 22-23

Average UK analyst in London: 21-22

Average European analyst in either: 25-26

Youngest analyst: I know of quite a lot starting as 20 year olds in London - if they skipped a year somewhere at school or are young for their year group.

Oldest analyst: 27 year olds from Sweden with a Masters, military service and gap years.

Stretching that question a bit:

Youngest associate I know: 22 year olds. At HSBC and ABN AMRO, got analyst to associate promotion after 12 months, and then moved to a tier-1 as associate. Great strategy.

Youngest VP I know: 22. Justin Lubell, Analyst to VP in 1 yr at Bear Stearns Equity Derivs Strategy, NYC. Not sure what his fate will be now.

Also in London, Zain Latif, 23yo VP at Merrill (did MBA early and 1yr at HSBC)

Youngest MD: Justin Lubell, age 23 at Bear Stearns, Equity Derivs Strategy NYC. Still there for now.

 

Zach Latif (Zain's brother) started as an analyst age 19 at Dresdner Sales & Trading, London.

It took Zain a year later to start as an analyst (20) but went from analyst to VP in 3 yrs at HSBC (is now 24yo Exec Director at Merrill).

Apparantly at Citi for S&T you can go from analyst to VP in 3 years if you get your CFA complete.

fyi I'm a 25yo VP. Have always found age vs title a key way to differentiate yourself amongst hoardes of bankers and really impress people.

 

Tweak your resume so it looks like you did something meaningful those past 4 years like learn a foreign language (you already know) and deworming orphans in Somalia (kidding about the orphans) then tell them how you boosted your GPA and how serious you are. Also try and make the crappy jobs sound less crappy just my two cents

 

So how long have you been in school exactly? Sounds like you worked after hs and are now back in school 4 yrs later. Imo if you don't say anything they won't ask (until HR runs a background check maybe) unless you look significantly older than most candidates. The biggest thing that's really going to psyche you out is yourself. You seem more insecure than you should be--consider your extra years an advantage!

 

No I took a few semesters off here and there because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at the time and I also withdrew from many classes because I just didn't care. I was just taking a few classes here and there to please my dad. So I'm hoping to graduate by the time I'm 27 and have a couple of internships as well as some sales and retail experience from working previous jobs. Frou Frou, don't you think hr would be able to check into those things if I bs?

 

No I took a few semesters off here and there because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at the time and I also withdrew from many classes because I just didn't care. I was just taking a few classes here and there to please my dad. So I'm hoping to graduate by the time I'm 27 and have a couple of internships as well as some sales and retail experience from working previous jobs. Frou Frou, don't you think hr would be able to check into those things if I bs?

 

There is a difference between making up BS and "framing" your experiences.

Take your retail job for instance. Even if 99% of the job was mundane crap, focus your resume on the 1% of the time when you actually made a difference. Did you create value, make suggestions, manage others?

 

Adipisci rerum suscipit velit et. Quas consectetur nostrum non voluptatem ut libero nobis. Non commodi voluptatem aliquam ducimus.

Temporibus deserunt quae officiis qui est laborum. Sunt ea nihil est quasi optio voluptatem aut. Atque quas amet aperiam repellat.

Architecto quod ipsum at. Aut et molestiae omnis voluptatem.

Quo rem reiciendis atque eius possimus. Quasi modi hic delectus nihil.

 

Quaerat voluptates repellat laborum dolore. Dicta hic voluptatem distinctio expedita. Est fugit labore velit sequi. Nihil expedita ut in velit. Vero culpa facilis eos accusamus qui. Qui facilis ea dolorem id. Ea debitis vel ratione voluptatem sequi recusandae.

Necessitatibus rerum ex dolor dolorem voluptas libero. Sint rem sunt optio enim. Vel in ratione et perferendis fugit sit.

Libero tempora nemo expedita dolor ab dicta. Sint harum id ipsa dolorum reprehenderit magnam. Nam et quaerat aut et. Odio rem nam recusandae illum non incidunt.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”