In Your Opinion, What Is The Best Way Of Becoming An Investment Banker?
The title says it all really. I have aspirations to become an investment banker. I have read a lot of conflicting sources about people saying that the best way to become an investment banker is right after an MBA where you usually get hired as an associate but others say that this is not the case and employers value work experience more than MBA; so joining as an analyst after completing a degree. So what is the best route of going about becoming a *successful * investment banker?
Also, another thing how valuable is work experience against high grades/degree honours?
Thanks
I would watch American Psycho and buy a rolex submariner
Be born into a rich family with lots of prestige.
Want to break into IB, please help! (Originally Posted: 04/27/2017)
Hello!
How can I break into IB?
I don't have good shot at a top business school. And even if I get into a top business school, I don't have the work experience for IB intern even.
Here is what I am thinking: T6 law, JD/MBA. Is that the only way in?
Thank you so much!
MBA> HC IB
or networking > HC IB
What does HC mean? Thank you
With your background being in Biology I have to ask, what interest you about finance and specifically about the investment banking side of finance? When you say you want to work in IB, what does that mean to you as far as job title/responsibility goes?
Well I am interested in pharma companies, financing them, with M&A that takes place in that industry, and with the huge risks in that industry.
This was a funny read
Not sure why but his attitude/impression reminds me a little of good old Donald. No relevent experiences, bad temper, wants a job at another industry just because, insults others for attempting to have a reasonable conversation, using vocabulary that he doesn‘t understand, etc.
And if history is any indication, I say Pharma Donald here is going JPM/GS HC.
Why? I said thank you to everyone here. I said thank you.
In fact I can totally see Trump posting on an anonymous forum, a priori, titled
"Want to break into POTUS, please help!"
and proceed to get mad at people for giving good advice.
I known of a top MM Hc group with average analyst turnover of 3 months. They migt be willing to give you a look.
Nice thread, very helpful.
Keep your lips moist.
How can I successfully get into investment banking? (Originally Posted: 02/20/2018)
Hello everyone,
I am a high school freshman whos life goal is to get into investment banking.
Here are my stats:
School: competitive public high school in Silicon Valley
Grades: only one semester so far, I got straight As except for Algebra II/Trig where I got a B I should not have received. I am curious as to how far this B will harm my future prospects
Extra: played piano for 10 years, participation in science olympiad, AMC 10 AIME qualifier, AMC8 AIME qualifier, took the SAT already (1560), USABO participant, Model UN Outstanding award, speech and debate team, mock trial, journalism business editor (manage interactions with local business for advertisements)
I am seeking advice from monkeys on how to succeed in high school to maximize my chances of getting into investment banking. Specifically, I want to know
1) What to do in high school to maximize chances of investment banking (classes, extracurriculars
2) What specific colleges needed to enter IB (HYP, Chicago, NYU ?)
3) What major is needed
4) Any advice that I need to know now
5) Anything I can start now
In addition, I start to feel that I am not the smartest 1% at my school. Can hard work overcome this? Or am I already out of the picture for IB?
I am very anxious to hear your input. I understand many will not take my seriously because of my age, but there are still some that want to help.
Thank you, city491
yes
SAT is not high enough. 1600 or bust
Thanks for the reply. I understand this; I have been working on my score and plan on taking the test again in 10th grade.
1) Chill out. Once you enter college, no one cares about which high school classes you took and extracurriculars you did. Have fun and enjoy high school
2) Any of the top 25 colleges should do. Look up the ranking on US News
3) People enter IB from all kinds of majors, but the typical ones are finance and economics
4) Just keep up your grades for now and enjoy high school
5) Stop going on WSO, come back after you got into a top college
Love the drive you have at such an early age. Maybe focus that on a startup? Not much you should prep now for IB, enjoy life younging
Target elementary schools coming soon.
But as far as the questions you asked, I will give a few answers you're looking for.
Best of luck!
Also, look for a way to make yourself stand out against other applicants. Starting a non-profit or a startup of something that interests you will show drive and ambition in college essays.
So - take a deep breath. Your interest may change - that being said make sure that you take your applications to colleges seriously - the listed schools are good. In my experience Standford works too as well as Columbia, Darthmouth, Wharton etc.
Being smart is not what banking is about - its being a hard worker so don't worry there.
If you're going to the Ivy Leagues major doesn't matter a ton tbh - just make it relevant to business.
Start reading the markets to see if you really have a passion for this and make sure that you have some interesting hobbies.
Good luck.
At your age you should be focused on two things: getting into a great school and keeping an open mind about what you want to do with your life. That said, aiming for IB is a great goal to have, because you'll develop a very competitive profile that will make you attractive for all sorts of other opportunities. Just stay open to what's out there - it's too early for tunnel vision.
There are very few high school achievements, other than maybe SAT score (or starting a business or curing cancer or some other wunderkind craziness) that a potential employer will care about. For the most part, your success in HS gets distilled into one line on your resume: the name of your school. And a 1560 is plenty good enough for consideration at the best schools and the top investment banks. Keep working on your grades and extracurriculars and you'll get there.
First Things To Know When Getting Into Investment Banking? (Originally Posted: 07/25/2017)
Hey, everyone.
I am interested in investment banking but I'm curious which is the best route to take, in regards to learning. I'm learning about trading comps right now and will learn about DCFs after. What is the logical course?
I have the Investment Banking Rosenbaum book. Should I just follow that page by page?
Thanks.
I'm from the UK and recently had a networking coffee with a pretty exec guy at a PE firm. He gave me a whole route to take. He advised going into companies like KPMG, PwC, Deloitte etc. do the Deals/Advisory insight and summer opportunities, work in one of said companies for a couple years, apply to a BB for M&A (If not straight into BB, go to a boutique for even more experience and more names on your resume/CV). Then after years of IB go into PE. Seems like a clear pathway. Other than that, do a shed ton of teamwork stuff like sports teams, Investment or finance societies etc. Be a well rounded individual.
Hope this helps in someway.
I've met several MDs who came into the industry laterally, and it seems like a pretty smart idea - skip the analyst years while getting a relevant perspective on transactions.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/frequently-asked-questions check the ib section
How do you break into investment banking? (Originally Posted: 12/13/2016)
The most popular advice for breaking into investment banking is developing relations with bankers at formal and informal events and cold-calling (which some claim is more effective if you attend a target school). Is this advice valid? How difficult is it to break into investment banking? Any advice?
That's a very open-ended question, but yes networking does help. I wouldn't say its too difficult per se, but it is more competitive than most fields so thats where you need to stand out and be better than the competition.
You're asking a pretty open-ended question as to how to break into IB. Just do a quick google search and it'll lead you to some great sites like Mergers and Inquisitions and BIWS. Those are much more comprehensive and in-depth than what I can provide
if only there were resources out there answering this very question.. to me, it's one of those "if you have to ask" things...
try to be resourceful
I would typically use a crowbar, but that's less effective at some midtown office buildings. If you want a more James Bond approach, consider dating an admin, and then swiping his/her access card.
Big 4 internships -> tax lawyer -> M&A/ECM lawyer -> in-house IBD lawyer -> buy-side IBD merchant banking -> taking it easy in risk management in my middle age
delete
How the HECK do I get into IBD? (Originally Posted: 09/06/2008)
Apologies if this has been covered before but I couldn't find a thread on point about this.
Here is my situation: I'm in my mid to late 20's and graduated from a sTTTate school cum laude in 2004. I worked in a company that consulted with certain types of hedge funds and then with an investment advisor of sorts before I went off to law school. Did a year in school and decided it was not for me.
I'd ultimately like to work in the front office of a hedge fund but I have no IBD experience and that seems like a pre req for those types of jobs. WTF do I do? Am I pwned? I figure I should immediately: *become an excel ninja *teach self to model *start to prepare for CFA level 1
So is my plan even possible? If so what else should I do? What if I worked for a few more years and got an MBA from a good school? Thanks
If you don't go to a target school, it better be because you have a damn good and successful family and only needed to save a couple of bucks by going to state on somewhere that offered you a great scholarship package, or due to other reasons out of your control. If your family is not very successful, better to focus on getting an MBA or it's target or bust.
Uhhh what? I almost didn't bother responding but this is so wrong I had to. You can become an investment banker by coming from a target school, non-target school, MBA, etc. Which is the easiest? A target school will absolutely be an easier process because of on-campus recruiting, alumni presence, and ivy league prestige. That being said, if it was "target or bust" then I guess my friends or I from my school did the impossible since we came from a non-target. And I guess all the alumni I know from my school and similar schools also did the impossible.
Being from a target will get you an interview but that by no means guarantees you the job. I came from a non-target and the process was very difficult relative to the ivy leaguers I was up against but if anything they were impressed by all the obstacles I had to overcome to be in front of them at the interview. And I sure as hell wasn't going to take this opportunity for granted. It is completely feasible to become an investment banker from a non-target. Just focus on grades, EC, and networking and you will have a shot.
Bruhhh, do you even read?
My post was not saying whether you can or cannot break in from a nontarget. I'm using hyperbole to say that you have a higher chance breaking in if you come from a successful family of professionals with the exception that you go to a target. I'm joking but I honestly I've seen more kids from successful families with success than I have those without, same grades and ec, coming from my nontarget. You sound like a kid so just bounce bro.
Hey IS@L. I think those things are important. But the technical knowledge is a good problem to have: you don't need it until you land some interviews first. Being a lateral is something I don't know much about, but I can give you my opinion:
Network.
It's your bread and butter. And it's the only way you'll have a strong fighting chance of breaking in. Find alumni from your school that are in NYC at the banks/boutiques. If you don't have an alumni site, put your school name and bank names into facebook and linkedin and see what comes out. Get in touch with these people. Even if it's tough to lateral in this market, you want those connections so when things turn up, you're ready to go.
I imagine that's a good place as any to start your search.
It's not really lateraling as I have NO IBD experience and have never worked in banking.
Also my undergrad is not well known out of the area it's in and if people do recognize it it's because of its athletic programs. I'd be very surprised if there are ANY alum working on the street. What do I do if I can't find alums in banking?
IS@L -- I'd personally seek other career alternatives. I'm not sure how risk adverse you are, but it is extremely possible that you'll spend the next 2-4 years of your life trying to prepare for a job you'll likely never get. If you're okay with this, by all means go down the path of self-prep and get your MBA. The problem is, seeing Cum Laude at a state school, quitting after a year in law school, and no relevant work experience puts you in the "no chance" bucket. You can try to get in via networking, but unless you have a high profile person in your family, you're likely going to hit a brick wall.
Sorry for the large dose of pessimism, but I truly believe this is the best advice I can give.
Thanks for the reply. This is pretty much what I thought. Any ideas on alternative careers? I do enjoy finance and liked the Asset Management stuff I was doing before I gave law school a try.
Asset Management is certainly a viable career choice. Life is certainly not about maximizing your wealth. If you enjoy what you do and can make enough to support your desired lifestyle, you shouldn't need much more to be happy. Note, by desired lifestyle I do not mean "dream life," I mean a lifestyle you'd be comfortable and content with.
~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker
Drink the blood of Lloyd Blankfein
Entering BB IBD: What's the best route? (Originally Posted: 03/09/2013)
Hi monkeys, my first post on WSO. I did my undergrad at UIUC in Actuarial Science. I was actually more interested in finance, but from where I come from, Act Sci is just Quantitative Finance and is very respectable in the finance industry. So I thought it would be similar at Illinois. By my second year, I realized Act Sci in Mid West basically meant insurance, but it was too late to change to Finance, because B-School only took major application from Freshmen. So I took as many finance classes as possible, pretty much as much as a Finance major. I finished my B.Sc. Act Sci with Business and Stats Minors without getting any interview opportunities at any IBs. (career service for non B-School kids was terrible...) So in my senior year, I applied to some Master's programs to give myself a new opportunity. I knew MSFs gave better chance of entering into IBDs but I also applied to some MSFE programs given my technical background. Fortunately I got into Columbia's MAFN (Math of Finance), and currently am doing my second/last semester. (I chose it for the brand name.) Was still interested in IBDs but almost no opportunities from the Columbia career services as most of them don't accept Masters application for Analyst roles. Application on BB career site didn't work either.. So I accepted a valuation role with one of the Big 4's before the end of last year. The work will be mostly financial reporting + business valuation for M+A deals and due diligence.
What do you guys think I should do to get into a BB IBD in the future? MBA from H/S/W? If so, what should I do to get into these? I should also note that I'm international, so I'm here on Visa -- and have certain restrictions on things I can do.
Looking for any advice and comment! Thanks.
What if he has AIDS?
Network with some Columbia grads who are already on the street. I'm sure there are more than a couple UIUC grads also.
Moving into IB From Scratch (Originally Posted: 07/11/2017)
I’m currently an Investment Associate at a small investor relations firm, which is basically answering questions when investors call, uploading press releases and writing reports documenting the stock price/volume of our clients companies. My undergrad major was Computer Science, but I did it a business school so my degree is a BBA. I have taken a few accounting classes, an intro finance and business law.
However I have reached a point at my current job where they want to move me up to do more investor relations work, which is not a career path I want to go down. I want to move towards an investment banking product group which I know is difficult for finance majors to get into much less someone with a Computer Science background and no internships.
Any advice on how I would go about making this transition into an IB, I’m obviously not looking to become an analyst after one phone call and am willing to put in the work. However I am uncertain about what the plan of attack is.
Have you read through the articles on Mergers & Inquisitions? If you have any friends or any warm contacts (i.e. school alumni) in investment banking I'd highly recommend reaching out to them for a quick phone call or coffee chat to learn more about their experiences.
I know this advice is a bit generic, but it really does work. More people have received offers this way than you may think. Good luck!
Barriers of Entry into IB (Originally Posted: 12/01/2010)
As everyone knows IB is extremely hard to get into, and even harder if you graduated in May of 2009 when all the banks more or less froze their analyst programs. It is now November 2010, and after over a year of corp fin debt underwriting for one of the largest 5 banks in the US, I am exploring a transition.
I was a summer analyst for a middle market I-Bank in Chicago during the summer of '08 and through my bank training (8 weeks after hiring) I was formally trained in Financial Modeling/Valuation by "Training the Street (TTS)." Anyone in IB knows who these guys are.
Anyways, I studied FIN and ECO in school but I did not graduate from Ivy or Public Ivy....... so my question:
What is the best way to go about getting into a BB or middle market I-Bank!?!?! Anyone have any suggestions or know anyone looking? I figured there has to be some entry level turnover where a team is looking to plug in a lateral somewhere to pick up the load the quitter left behind......
Thanks!
netowkrings youre only way now
I'm in a pretty similar situation to you. It sucks. It seems like we were passed over and they only consider 2011 grads now
I was a May 2009 grad and I feel your pain . I worked for a year as a prop trader, that was all I could get, then went back to school to get a Master of Finance primarily to get back on the school recruiting track. However, you are rather fortunate since you are currently working for a large bank. Find someone(MD) who works in a division that you are interested in and network your way to a job. Work hard, build your resume then bounce when the opportunity presents itself. Worse case, grind it out a little while longer. Get an MBA and enter a BB as an associate.
What vertical are you in?
If you're patient, there is also the accounting route. Go try to join a big 4 with their Transaction Services, and if you get a CPA after 2 years, you could make the job to investment banking.
Breaking into IB (Originally Posted: 11/15/2017)
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I'm in the same situation, literally couldnt have been more spot on.
My plan is to look for any finance internship (wealth management, corporate finance, etc) and study for the CFA level 1. Curious as to what others have to say.
You're thinking about it the right way. The two best things you can do are (1) focus on raising your GPA (2) securing a good internship for the spring + summer
If you are going to pursue a spring internship though, make sure it doesn't compromise your grades.
As you can probably guess, networking extensively throughout spring/summer is going to be your best shot here. If you end up getting a PE internship and doing a good job, hopefully they will have some contacts they'd be willing to refer you to as well.
I wouldn't consider pushing graduation unless you're really coming up empty on FT recruiting and you're dead set on BBs, and even then it's no guarantee. If you are as committed to breaking in as you suggest, I'd try to be open minded about opportunities at non-BBs as well. They can still offer great experiences and you could always try lateraling to a larger firm once you start full time anyways.
You are extremely committed yet started the process too late?
Other kids are hungrier it seems, son!
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I would say you have a small chance of getting an offer within IBD without networking. However, networking will increase your odds dramatically so try and find some time to do so because it will pay off. Just make sure you network the right way.
And yes, capital markets (Like DCM) are probably going to be easier to get an offer from than on a S&T desk. However, all the positions you listed don't have a major difference in terms of difficulty between them.
You need to: 1) demonstrate knowledge 2) ur gpa isn't gonna do u any favors, you need to sell the hell out of your character and personality
The above posters don't really know what they're talking about. I'm currently a junior at one of the above schools, and I was in a similar position as you last summer (boutique IB instead of consulting). I did zero networking until about November, and then my 'networking' consisted solely of emails and phone calls (no city visits, no coffee chats with alums). I ended up getting interviews and offers from the majority of BBs and EBs. Keep in mind, too, that I have a much easier major than you, and have a lower GPA than you do. Here's my point - with a double major in Econ/Applied math and a 3.7 at Yale, you're going to land interviews pretty much everywhere. Don't worry about the summer. Just make sure you go to networking events when banks come to campus, and in November/December, reach out to analysts/associates that are alums at the various banks via email and ask for brief phone conversations. That, combined with your academic record, will get you interviews at 99% of banks. 'Hard' networking at HYP is only necessary if you're deficient in some area (experience, grades, etc). You're clearly not, so I wouldn't stress about this too much. Good luck, and PM me if you have any questions.
Edit: didn't see oasis's comment until after I posted mine. He/she is spot on.
^ These kids must still be in high school
With that profile, you are all but guaranteed on-campus interviews at most if not all of the top banks. Networking is not necessary at all.
Rising junior? In that case, you're fine. More than fine; you're in great shape. Those first posters are either trolls, or deeply confused. You'll get interviews almost everywhere next year. If you want a more detailed discussion, PM me.
If you're at HYP you are not 'breaking in' hahaha
dont waste time networking for IBD - youre a top candidate and youll get interviews everywhere (and offers too, if you dont suck). that said i would focus your time and efforts to network for analyst positions with top HFs and MF PE shops since youll have access to them.
Is this for real? Networking is about much more than just getting a job. No matter how great your grades are, culture, group placement and overall fit still very much come into play.
I don't think you'll have any trouble getting offers with that profile unless you are are really annoying and have zero social/interviewing skills.
You're never guaranteed any offers, but I'd be surprised if a single bank denied you a first round interview
The people telling you not to network are giving you terrible advice. Yes, you will likely have your choice of interviews come next winter. However, the recruiting process is such a crap shoot that you can never be too careful. Further, it will help to have relationships in top groups for selection day.
Non-target students oversimplify the top target campus recruiting process. Even with a 3.7 at HYP you are not guaranteed interviews. Network with people now, before your internship starts, and then follow up with them during the fall semester.
I have a close friend - double quantitative major at HYP with a 3.9 GPA, ended up landing an offer with a top hedge fund manager but got it through networking and not OCR. Did not get a single offer through OCR (and he's a really cool guy so that's not the reason). Credit Suisse told him that they preferred to hire athletes over traditional candidates.
I'm at a target school, have a good GPA with a bunch of work experience and ended up having to network pretty intensely to land my current summer offer. I'm a sophomore, but it was still difficult and OCR did not help me at all.
You can't go wrong if you network - it's highly advised that you do so. You'll certainly be up against people who have networked, so maximizing your competitive edge can't hurt.
Help: best path into I-Banking? (Originally Posted: 05/10/2015)
Hello everyone, my name is Arian, and I'm new to this. I'm currently a senior in high school and have to choose between UCLA and UC Berkeley for undergrad. I mostly want to go to UCLA as a Business Economics major, but I also have the opportunity to go to UC Berkeley and attempt to get into the Haas Undergraduate Program. While I know Haas is a better program, it's not guaranteed that I'll get in; you have to apply after two years and hope to be one of the 30% that get it. I want to go to UCLA because I like it more than Berkeley, but I've been hearing that my chances of getting recruited by a good bank will be much less because Haas is so much more respected. Right now my plan is to not risk going to Berkeley because I'm not sure if I'll get Haas, and to instead go to LA and work my ass off with internships and what not so I can get an analyst job after undergrad. Since I really don't know what's best, or if it even makes a difference as long as I am a top student, I want to ask you guys for your opinion. Will Berkeley be that much better or can I make it work from LA with the right moves? Thanks, and sorry if this isn't the right place to post this; I wasn't really sure about the new-user forum since it didn't seem to have a lot of traffic.
Berkeley will give you more options for recruiting, but UCLA would be fine as well. You should ultimately go where you believe you will have the best college experience because both are good schools.
That said, if the primary driver of your decision is whether or not you can get into Haas, I'd go to Berkeley. If you want to do banking, you will need top grades, and that should correlate with your ability to get into the b-school.
Hi Arian, I think my advice would be pretty similar from the monkey above.
Echoing his words, both schools are good, and if you are an excellent student, it shouldn't make a large difference at the end of the day.
I think it really comes down to you at this point; if you like UCLA that much more over Berkeley, going to Berkeley would probably make you slightly miserable if you began to reminisce the choice you made. However, If your sole criteria is getting a better shot at a top job, regardless of your well-being, then go for Berkeley.
In addition, I'd just like to remind you not to fear the fact that you might get rejected from the Haas programme; work hard, commit to it, and nothing will stop you from achieving what you want.
I'm not sure if you can do this, but could you go to UCLA for your first two years and THEN try to get into Haas as a transfer student? If so, it kind of takes all of the risk out of it. Either you get into Haas or you just stay at UCLA.
Also, what kind of money are we talking here? Any scholarships?
Careers that lateral into IB (Originally Posted: 10/03/2015)
Hi all,
Background: Big 4 auditor here. I have exhausted the approach of cold emailing boutiques. The finance community where I come from is incredibly small. I have emailed nearly all boutiques and ended up empty handed, party because of over-confidence (Eg. rejecting an offer thinking that I had a chance at clinching another interview that was ongoing).
So I am thinking of going down the path of getting a job that can help me lateral in.
Would like to get your thoughts on what roles would help make a move into M&A roles more easy (eg. Corporate banking? Restructuring? Credit Analysis?).
Cheers.
Bump
The Lateral into IB: Journey Starts Here (Originally Posted: 11/21/2012)
Top of the morning to you monkeys. Hope you're all as excited for turkey and football in the land of the free as I am. For those across the pond: I hope your Thursday treats you wonderfully. We all have something to be grateful for, and at present, I'm feeling particularly fortunate. My disposition usually prevents me from reaching out for anonymous help, but I’ve found myself in a situation that I believe could be as beneficial hearing about as it is writing about it.
Having been on these forums for quite awhile now, I’ve developed a pretty narrow minded perception of the viable paths into IB. Go to a target, have a stellar GPA, do summer analyst gigs, and boom: you might have a chance. The lateral into investment banking from an unrelated industry (I’ll explain more) is about as likely as Herman Cain winning the presidential election. Right? Well, yesterday an opportunity fell in my lap that pretty much blew my entire concept of the righteous path out of the water.
I’d like to give as much background as possible, but the unique nature of my situation prevents me from such. Basically, I’ve been working a position in the industry of my dreams [think tech, energy, auto] in a hybrid front/mid office position since my fairly recent graduation. Since joining the firm, I’ve learned an outrageous amount about the industry, as it’s one I’ve always been interested in. I’m pursuing the CFA charter.
About a month ago, my roommate that does IB in my industry forwarded me info about an associate opening with a top MM in my industry—even though I’d only been working for a bit, and I wasn’t in banking, he knew how much I enjoyed the business aspect of my industry more than the industry itself. He also knew I thought my career trajectory was good, but not ideal. So I figured—why not? Sent in my resume and a formulaic cover letter with no expectations of hearing back. Keep in mind, I’m an analyst. Not an investment banking analyst.
I recently received a call to set up a phone interview from the firm. I was in minor shock, as I had already forgotten that I had sent in the application in the first place. Remembering that it was an associate position was all the more rattling, as I figured I’d be competing with top MBA candidates and the like. I like my current job, but it doesn’t necessarily filter into where I want to be at the end of my career (an investor in or analyst of my industry). So I called back. 30 minute phone interview with a director ensued. I can talk and bullshit with the best of them, so it went seamlessly--mostly detailed descriptions of points on my resume, as well as a brief explanation of my interest in banking. He told me he liked a couple very specific details about my resume (VC internship, research internship) as well as my pursuit of the CFA. They’d filtered through close to 700 resumes, and were down to their final thirty and hoping to move forward with the process. Five minutes after the call, I received another call asking me to come in to interview with two MDs the following week.
So, this is the beginning of my test. I feel I was given an opportunity that comes rare in this day and age. I’m about to attempt the formidable lateral from mid office analyst to front office associate. I’ve never heard of this being done with this firm. The past few days have been nothing but studying M&A and transaction advisory in my industry, including what I’m able to find about the firm’s specific transaction history. I’m getting refreshed on my accounting (depreciation through the statements, depreciation as a method to decrease tax expenses, etc) and making sure I can talk about LBOs and precedent transactions as if I lived to study them. I'm in over my head. But, I’m fortunate to have plenty of friends in banking, all of which being as surprised and excited as I am for this opportunity. I’d be willing to field questions, though I feel it’d be premature at this stage; instead, monkeys, I’d like any of your advice or an anecdote you might be familiar with of a similar situation. In return, I’m going to keep you all posted with my progress and strategy here.
Going into this first interview, I figure it will be more of a “fit” type scenario: is this guy a leader? Is this someone I could work 60-100 hour weeks next to? What will this guy bring the firm that the MBA candidate won’t? Does he have the pedigree to forego the traditional analyst stint? Will he be worth what I’m paying him? Most importantly:What about my previous position gives me the tools I'll need to be successful in banking? My hope, fail or succeed, is that we can all learn and gain motivation from my situation. I know it’s sure invigorated me. Thanks for reading.
Happy Thanksgiving
You sure it isn't a research associate position? Thus same as analyst. Regardless, congrats. Keep us updated.
Yeah, sure am. That was actually my first question on the phone interview, along with how many people they'd be taking. And thanks I appreciate it
Best of luck. My only advice would be to actually practice building out models from scratch. It will give you a wholly different understanding of how things work than reading from a book/interview guide.
Interesting. That would be a very impressive move to jump into an associate position with that much experience. Be ready to stave off underlying resentment from analysts with more years of IBD experience, but that's definitely not a reason to be hesitant to make this jump. I don't mean for my tone to be pessimistic, but it's just surprising that they'd try and bring you on as an associate vs an analyst simply because of the years of experience. I say this because in a group with flat structure there is very little difference between experienced analyst and associate in terms of roles and responsibilities.
I would think that this could almost be a selling point on your behalf when you're pitted up against MBAs. Lower cost (only marginally) for equal, if not better, domain knowledge and aptitude for the job. Obviously the objective isn't to negotiate yourself into a lower paying position than possible, but from a competitive standpoint it can be helpful to make them realize the marginal difference in cost vs. performance if they're trying to compare you to someone with a nice MBA on their res who will command higher comp.
As a third year analyst, I've face similar situations where they are interviewing for a sr. analyst/associate (although you've made it clear their looking for an associate). The way I played it was to emphasize why this was the right job for me, etc, but mention that my interest in the position was based on the quality of the opportunity, the experience, and the direction I wanted to take my career with seniority only being a secondary consideration.
Either way, congratulations and best of luck with this impressive move. You must be a real stud in interviews.
Best of luck! Let us know!
Becoming an analyst at an investment bank (Originally Posted: 09/12/2014)
I just recently graduated with a degree in finance and concentration in risk management (GPA 3.3) at a school that is not targeted by big banks, however my school is always ranked between the 25-35 range of best undergrad business schools.
I have two internships at two different insurance companies (both fortune 500), but both internships were dealing with product areas and not the insurance company's investment department. I am also currently studying to take level one of the CFA.
I was hoping someone could give me some advice based on my background as to how to get into an analyst role at an investment bank or in the investment department at an insurance company.
It seems like my application online ether gets filtered out right away, or managers are concerned with my lack of Ibanking/analysis experience.
Try to get a SA spot. You can cold call/email like crazy for that which will help. Numbers are your friend here. Since you don't have quality (non-target) you have to go with quantity.
After you get a SA spot, then you should be good to go.
You can also do the same thing but look for a 1st year analyst position as well. Sure the big banks will probably look over you, but if you can get in contact with a smaller firm they might give you a chance.
Given your concentration in Risk, I'd be curious to see @"SSits" opinion on what you can do.
I would try networking with any local IBs including the MM, not just BBs. BBs like prestige and it's hard to get unless you come from a target school and/or have a BB SA experience. And from what you said, it sounds like you're in the mid-west (correct me if I'm wrong, since I had a similar situation graduation from a mid-west state school) Consider relocating to NYC where there are more job and networking opportunities.
I'll probably do the same thing. Can you give us some insights on how to find local IBs and boutique/MM firms? Some examples would be greatly appreciated.
I'm in NJ just in case you're wondering.
Thanks! I am actually from NJ as well, but I went to school in VA. I have an interview for an internship at Societe Generale coming up...have any of you heard anything about them? Culture/Reputation on the street?
Also, any advice for this interview or Ibanking analyst interviews in general would be appreciated.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide-to-finance-interviews
thanks! I am starting a job in capital markets operations at a major bank. Is it easy to move accross departments from an operations position?
First, you are going to want to clarify whether you would like to work on the sell side for a few years or pursue a career in investment banking. The skills that you will need to get started in investment banking are different than those that you will need to have a long and successful career in investment banking. The role in investment banking transforms from one that is research, financial modeling & valuation based into one focused on origination and facilitating the M&A process. M&A (Mergers & Acquisitions) is the core product of investment banking, and the other products, advisory & capital-raising, simply support this. In short, WSO, WSP, and IBI are good for getting the financial modeling & valuation side of things, but if you are interested in reaching VP level and above I would check out IBU which focuses on M&A origination, coverage, mandate/target matching and deal structuring.
Best, Michael Herlache MBA VP, M&A
How to break into IBD (Originally Posted: 05/07/2009)
How can you ( I ) get into investment banking without the typical analyst/ associate recruiting process? Masters in economics from a top school with 2 years experience on capitol hill and 2 years in S&T.
mba or ice cold networking
Network, Network, Network and Network some more. Than after that when you're done networking you should call 10 more people and try to expand your network.
People like it when you reach out for advice about how to make the transition. You want to get to the point where you are tired of hearing the same story from a bunch of bankers. Thats when you have networked enough and are making progress.
Trying to get an early start into IBD (Originally Posted: 03/04/2011)
Hey, guys. I've been lurking for a while now, but I figured I'd make an account because I have a question regarding my very unique situation.
I'd like to get an early start on IBD. College is about 18 years away, but I'm doing all I can to get into H/W/S. But to get myself on the best track, where should I go for preschool/elementary/etc.? I know this probably gets asked a lot, but my situation is just so unique.
What should I have for an undergrad GPA at H/W/S? I know it's far off, but I need to know what I need to do to ensure I can get a spot as a summer analyst my junior year summer. Once I have my internship, I'm going to do whatever it takes to stand out. ANY ADVICE IS APPRECIATED!
Also, I want to state in full disclosure that even if you guys and gals in the industry try to give me advice, I'll try my best to ignore it and try to get you to say what I want you to say. Only then will I actually take your advice. Until then...I obviously know better because I read a lot into investing and stuff. That's what IB's all about, right?
I would advise your mother to go to the coat closet and grab a hanger...
Come on buddy, you have to do better than that:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=most+prestigious+preschool+fetus+%22investment+ban…
Which path would be better for breaking into IBD? (Originally Posted: 08/20/2014)
Hello everyone. I was wondering, for an international who may be interested in IBD, which path do you think would be better?
A) Going to med school in home country, then trying to get an MBA at a top US B-School
B) Sitting out a year, and applying to US undergrad schools, then following the standard route
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Definitely B - why on earth would you go to med school if you want to do IB?
Because I actually do have a passion for med and I figured, hey if I have to do a first degree anyway, why not do it in something I love? And it would also provide a stable plan B that I would be perfectly content with in case of anything.
Goodluck
Thank you
Where is 'home country' ?
Med school will make you look smart but confused/lacking direction or 'oomph' for what you want to do - you'd have to have stellar connections to land IB gigs without a strong b school. B is looking better.
Home country is Jamaica. The intention would be to go to a strong b school if I do take route A, but I know that it's risky. Would having a degree in medicine make me look confused? I thought that your major didn't matter at all.
My home country is Jamaica. Would med school really make me look confused? I thought that major didn't matter for IB.
@"Revul" Apparently I can't edit comments, but yea, if I do decide on taking route A, I would definitely try to get into a top B school.
Want to get into investment banking and be the best (Originally Posted: 01/03/2016)
Hey wso I've known of your guys site since like 2008 but this is one of my first times posting. Basically I want to be an investment banker, like really bad I want to go to a good business school than work on Wall Street and be the best. I truly am passionate and care a lot about business and finance and want to make a difference and do something for the world other than just make good money. Please help me wso how can i go to Wall Street and work for a big bank like Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan and work my way up to being the best? Thank you and please I need all the inpu5 and advice I can get
Apply online and hope for the best.
Please don't feed the troll, people. Let this post be the last of the thread.
I'm serious guys.... I really am very interested and concerned about business and finance and want to do whatever it takes to get to Wall Street New York and be the best of the best, PLEASEEE help me wso I want to be an investment banker so so bad.
Bump
Trololol hohoho
It's so sad that I can't tell if this is some troll post by a veteran WSO monkey or one of the hundreds of anxious high school dumbasses that now populate this forum.
OP, I wrote a song for you.
I wanna be the very best, Like no one ever was. To pitch them is my real test, To close them is my cause. I will travel across the land, Searching far and wide. Each client to understand The all-nighters that are inside Investment banking, (gotta pitch them all) its you and me I know its my destiny Investment banking, oh, you're my best friend In a bank account that you must fill Investment banking, (gotta pitch them all) a heart so true Our 10th Red Bull will pull us through You teach me and I'll teach you (In-vestment-banking) Gotta pitch 'em all Every challenge along the way With courage I will face I will grind every day To claim my rightful place Come with me, the time is right There's no better team Arm in arm we'll win the mandate It's always been our dream Investment banking! (Gotta pitch 'em all) It's you and me I know it's my destiny Investment banking! Oh, you're my best friend, In a mandate we must win. Investment banking! A heart so true. Our 10th Red Bull will pull us through. You teach me and I'll teach you. Investment banking! (Gotta pitch 'em all)x5 Investment banking! It's you and me I know it's my destiny Investment banking! Oh, you're my best friend, In a mandate we must win. Investment banking! A heart so true. Our 10th Red Bull will pull us through. You teach me and I'll teach you. INVESTMENT BANKING! Gotta pitch'em all!! Gotta pitch'em all!! INVESTMENT BANKING!!!
Looking for ANY WAY to break into IB (Originally Posted: 02/23/2016)
I don't want to bore you guys so I'll try to make this short.
19 years old, attending a Canadian uni which is about as non-target as they get. Due to program switch will hopefully be 1st year Business student next year (20 y.o) and by end of the year should have in the 3.8-4.0 GPA range. 24-25 when finished school regardless of where.
As someone who wants more than ANYTHING than to break into NYC IB, is it better to try to:
If none of these seem wise, and my only option is to stay where I am, what is the most extreme angle I could take to give myself a chance. I am open to literally anything, don't care if I gotta grind 100 hour weeks for a couple years doing 3 finance jobs or something like that. Anyone you guys know who went pure grind to break in from a non target, I'm open to anything that will give me a decent shot. List any and all relevant ideas.
*** Not interested in MBA so not really considering that as an option***
Not sure about Queens US placement, but from what my friends at Ivey say (and a quick LinkedIn search) they send a handful of students down south every year. That being said, #2 would probably be your best bet if you got in to a top school (e.g. H/S/W).
Also what's the reason for your late entry? If it's you "discovering yourself" you might get dinged. If it's something like military service it could really help you.
I'm sure I could come up with a good enough story. But basically it was due to some personal issues which I have gotten documented and feeling out a different program at my school. If that isn't a good enough reason I'm sure I could conjure up some BS that will sound good enough.
Anyone else have thoughts on this situation?
Do you have an aversion to working in Toronto? I would think the recruiting would be far better there for the 2 Canadian school you listed.
Personally, I think there are many positive to working in IB outside of NYC. I understand that NYC has many more options for lateraling and PE exits etc, but it also has a ridiculous COL and the lifestyle is pretty brutal.
Just my thoughts
Not too familiar with Canadian IB which may sound odd since I live here lol. If the comp and overall structure per se is similar, then I would definitely be open to it
If you want to go to the US transfer to a top university in the states. If you cannot, go to Ivey or Queens. Once there you can try to get into Canadian banks. The only time your age will get mentioned in interviews and such is if you bring it up. People will just view you as a 2nd year, 3rd year etc.
Typical steps to becoming an investment banker? (Originally Posted: 01/12/2017)
What are the general steps to becoming a full time investment banker at a BB firm?
The stereotypical path: 3.7+ GPA in finance at a target school, finance-related internship sophomore year, Summer Analyst banking internship junior year, return offer for full time at the end of your junior summer
As above, or if in the UK, the typical path is top A-level grades in school usually AAA and above, followed by a 2:1 at a target university or less often but still doable, with a bit of extra networking and ECs, at a semi-target university (you also have the occasional superstar candidate from a non-target university). The usual steps, after securing your place at university, are to ideally complete a one week spring week in your first year of university during your easter break, followed by a summer internship in your second year and then hopefully a return FT offer for the following year after graduation.
Thanks for quick responses! As for resumes, other than work experience what makes a candidate more attractive for recruitment?
Other than work experience, top grades and a top university, banks will most likely look for something to help differentiate candidates. Such as spoken languages, ECs like finance societies (this shows an interest in the industry and additionally if you're interested in S&T you can start your own trading portfolio), music achievements (shows dedication and commitment to play an instrument at high grade), taking part in volunteer work (not boring ones though), and other things which demonstrate key competencies such as leadership and teamwork skills e.g. playing sport or joining the university's football team etc..
Also, by making the most of any networking events banks host and meeting with employees and actually sending those follow up emails and making the effort to arrange a time to meet up again for a drink or a phone call. This although mostly leads to nothing, can occasionally (if you do it well and they like you) lead to recommendations which can help you land that first round interview.
Hope this helps.
Pull chicks in high school -> Average state college -> Join god tier frat -> Pull chicks with frat brahs -> Xanax -> 2.5 GPA -> Waltz into Goldman Sachs interview some time during senior year -> "I'm here for the money pussies" -> Greatness
I swear it has to be the best way to get into an IB... (Originally Posted: 10/24/2006)
I have to bring this up and ask for peoples opinions. I have been interested in IB for the last two years. I come from a non-target school in the midwest. I have done a summer internship in NY with a M&A shop.
I swear the best way to get into one of the BB, given my credentials (the school I come from) is to land an internship. Many, if not all, of the BB hire out of their summer class. This is a great way for us non-target schoolers to prove ourselves over a couple months. In my opinion the bank has nothing to lose with bringing me on as an intern (no pay and no commitment). But do they?
What does everyone think of this idea? Im sorry if I am stating the obvious but I need all the advice I can get.
Then... What is the best way to land a summer internship?
Thanks for the help
yes you are right...and yes that was obvious.
But for some people that isn't an option: A) have to take summer classes to graduate on time b) Grades not up to par junior year c) for people not close to NYC...picking up and moving for 2 months is very hard.
oh and interns actually do get paid, the pay is prorated. I think my friend made something like 10k during his internship.
yeah, this past summer I made 4,000 a month pre tax + 2,000 end of summer "merit bonus". So, for an intern after witholding and other taxes, each paycheck every two weeks is around 1,500...sure as hell beats my job two summers ago making 8.50/hr in a warehouse doing crap work from 10-4 every day (amounted to not so much spending cash)
newsflash, rosshill: it's actually a bit harder to get a summer analyst IB job than FT
Yeah, I think so too. I think it would be harder to land a summer job than an actual full-time position.
Yeah...don't the BBs usually hire almost all of their summer interns unless you really fucked up? I heard that at ML if they hire 95% of their interns fulltime they consider it a recruiting failure.
don't you mean don't
probably easier to get hired during the summer - you're cheaper labour and gives the company a chance to "interview" you for 3 months. also, since most banks hire a large percentage of the summer crew to stay on full-time after graduation, less spots are open during fall recruiting.
Most banks hire almost the entire summer intern class, unless you really do a bad job. Even if you hate the group/bank, it's still a good idea to suck it up and get a full time offer, and then use that as leverage to get offers from better banks during the fall recruiting season.
The proven way to get into IB (Originally Posted: 04/27/2007)
I have a friend here at Dartmouth who enlisted in the Air Force when he was a sophomore in high school (17) in the delayed entry program. The kid went to basic training that summer and job training the following summer. His six year committment will end when he graduates in may. he got to put on his resume that he was in the air force reserve for six years. He got an interview with every bank he applied to and got an offer with every bank he interview with. he applied to 5 banks. he had a 3.3 GPA.
He said his interviewers were respectful and gave him low ball questions. he said it really seperated him from the pack. Moreover he said he could have got in with a 3.0. That was the only EC activity he had on his resume.
I'm not surprised. I would have given him home field advantage too.
Being in the army or the Air Force takes enormous dedication. It is not some other activity that you do simply because you are "passionate" about it. People join the Air Force and the Army to serve their country.
The sacrifice of putting your life on the line day in and day out takes a lot more dedication and sacrifice than just being an athlete or a serial club joiner.
I'm not surprised at all.
I know an associate that was an officer in a branch of the military and he is worthless (and lazy above all). Because of that, I will probably never give military personnel a bigger advantage over anyone else.
Would your associate be the exception or the norm for military types in ibanking because it does require immense dedication to be in the military for 6 years?
My point is that never to assume that someone is dedicated and/or hardworking without verifying for yourself.
Before I started banking I met a VP in an airport terminal who was a captain in the army - he said banking was harder physically and mentally than boot camp and all his years in the service. I personally don't believe it, but he looked pretty miserable.
You'll always have bad seeds. I know a few who were in the Marine Corps. One got out as a Lance Corporal; you need to be a scumbag to get discharged as an E3 or below.
at my b-school (top 10) all the military guys got banking offers. it is a surefire way to get a banking job, but like other posters have said these fellows put their lives on the line (i.e. active duty in iraq).
cylack, Duke MBA?
What are the basics you need to know to get into IB (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)
What are the basics concepts and ideas and IB expects its new undergraduate hires to come in with, I am current working at an big name IB, I am a summer analyst for risk management in Operational risk, so I am not doing quant things like VaR and SVaR( I do not know anything about either)
I would like to know the basics of IB. Like what to expect at an entry level. I know they are long hours.
I want to read and learn as much as I can so I can try and move into the IB dept.
Answer this, and the world will be your oyster.
A strong grasp of the English language couldn't hurt.
Good gpa. Sociable. Good networking skills.
Getting into investment banking (Originally Posted: 08/30/2011)
Hey there,
Getting into investment banking can be a very difficult task. This is why a lot of people seek various resources in order to prepare as best as they possibly can for the job. Some of these resources are free, and some cost a lot of money.
I want to introduce a new website that falls into category of free resources. The Wall Street Wannabe website was created with a goal of attracting people to the investment banking industry and answering frequent questions that students have.
The website is designed to provide readers with the knowledge necessary to jump-start the journey towards their career goals. It's about spreading knowledge and learning. It is a gift from people who have been in your shoes - people with experience that know what they wish they had known when they were looking for a job.
So, without further a due, I present www.wallstreetwannabe.com. Good luck!
You're a douche Dino, I will never utilize your crap site that doesn't have .00001% of the amount of info this soon to be dead hooker's jizz stained hair has. Try craigslist.
Dino, in what order did you sort the banks under bulge bracket? Just curious.
I was just kidding, your site has a lot of room to grow so keep at it.
get rid of the stupid stock photos
Best way to get into IB (Originally Posted: 09/16/2012)
I am currently doing my Master and was wondering what is the best way to get into a top IB in London.
Few considerations: - I am actually looking for a full-time job - I am interested in M&A
Should I apply for summer internships, off-cycle internships, graduate programs or a full time position?
Targets MS, CS, GS, JPM, DB, Barcap, RBS, UBS, Lazard
Expand your target list. Add top MMs, as well as mid-tier MMs, where are you a citizen of?
What is the best way to get in though?
Summer, off-cycle, graduate?? or should I just go with a full time job application directly
All depends on the bank, apply for whatever you can
I need help breaking into Investment Banking and need advice. (Originally Posted: 12/03/2017)
I am studying masters at Loughborough University (MSc Economics and Finance) and i currently don't have any financial/internship experience. I have been actively looking to apply for Internships but i haven't been successful (I graduated from a low rated University with a 1st in BA Economics). Now if i apply for internships such as investor relations at a hedge fund or any similar internships will this help? or in this case what approach should i take so i can even considered for IB, i graduate in 2018 and i really want to break into Investment Banking but it's not looking likely what can i do?
Thank you
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