Hey Bankers,
Long time lurker, made an account just for this. I could really use some help, but unfortunately, can't ask anyone at work and I don't think I've spoken to my friends since I started in banking.
Long story short, I worked in Lev Fin at a BB for a year and a half before leaving to do sell-side M&A at a MM boutique. I've been at this boutique for the last five months. I thought the move would invigorate me (coaching private business owners through the sale process, faster paced, less bureaucracy), but it's just more of the same. Petty office nonsense, and as expected, IB hours are a grind. Nothing like being at the office at 3am on a Saturday trying to get a deck out. But more than that, I looked around and realized that I do not give a shit about finance.
I got into this for the money. I actually thought everyone did (where else do you pull six figures at 22?) but some of the guys at this boutique truly love their jobs. I shit you not, we went out for drinks and they spent 45 minutes debating hypothetical EBITDA adjustments. Everyone works weekends and no one takes vacation - they just work from a more tropical location twice a year.
So I already know I'm getting out. The plan is to head back to school, get an engineering degree, and actually build some shit. The real question is this: what's the right move? Do I quit now? Stay through year end and collect the bonus check? Stay two years to round out the experience?
Bonus aside, I would feel a bit guilty about leaving - not because I'm a prized possession (trust me, mediocre IB analyst at best), but we're a small team and we're slammed. I wouldn't want to throw the other analysts & associates deeper into the shit storm if I could avoid it. On the other hand, sticking around in a soul-crushing job to round out experience that will be almost irrelevant in the field I'd like to pursue seems like a waste.
Thoughts?
Also, I've been scrolling through some other threads, but if anyone has advice on the best way to say "it's not you, it's me" to an MD without getting punched in the throat before I'm ushered out, would be very interested in hearing that as well.
You're overthinking it. There's PLENTY of people out there who would love to take your spot, and it will be a smooth transition if you let your MD know ahead of time so they can find your replacement and you can train him up before you leave.
Also analysts are somewhat expected to leave. That said I'd still stay on through year end because that will give you time to get accepted into an engineering program for a spring semester. You'll also need the bonus money during your program.
Kudos for admitting it's not for you. Have you ever thought of taking a more relaxed 9-5 role somewhere and working on side projects?
I did think about that a bit, and it may still be an option. Could definitely try for something in corporate finance and take classes on nights & weekends. My only hesitation would be that stretching out my finance experience may not be as valuable as getting into engineering ASAP - if I could polish off a program and land a full-time gig before the doldrums of the next recession hit, then I'd be in decent shape.
If you are set on a career change then quit now. Don't wait for the right time to get out because it might not come for a long time. Just be sure what you're switching to is something you actually want to do and will have a long lasting motivation for. It's a lot of time and money going back to school for a totally different 4 year degree. Last thing you want is to be in the same position at an engineering firm in 5 years.
My suggestion is find what truly interests you and chase that 100%.
The advice I've given to people in your situation is not to have an over-developed sense of loyalty. When it comes to quitting, you should be as clinical with your firm as your firm would be with you.
Your firm would likely not show you much loyalty if push came to shove and they had to cut costs. They'd be nice, they'd wish you well, but they wouldn't care much about the impact on your career and they'll escort you out of the building.
If you were fired, your colleagues would feel a little more concerned/worried, but would be glad that it was you, not them. They would move on.
Yep...got cut during covid for my first full-time job out of college. Learned the lesson really fast.
My advice would be to secure everything on your end first. Apply to Engineering schools (cool idea by the way), make sure you get in, pick where you're going, and get all your ducks in order. Staying until the bonus wouldn't be a bad idea, but only if it fits your schedule. Once everything is set, have a nice sit down with your boss and just be upfront with him.
As other people here said, your boss will not be too cut up about it outside of the initial stress of having to train someone else. Give him decent notice so they can find and train your replacement (a month, perhaps, instead of two weeks. Maybe two months if you're good on money and think they won't let you go immediately.) and make sure you keep everything positive.
Just a heads up, UVA, (maybe) Michigan, and Oregon are all options I've seen thrown around that allow students to get a second degree (provided it's in engineering). I think you could also go to one of the web development type schools in NY which are like $10k-$20k and allow you to make the jump without going back to school if that's more your thing
Take the bonus and leave. No reason not to get your money at this point. Then you have some decent walking away with cash before you start back to school.
Collect one more bonus check and then leave. Dont tell anyone, why would they pay you any bonus if you flag that you are leaving. Couple days after money hits your account you tell them.
For 99.9% of firms you are looked at as solely an NPV, the second you go negative they would not hesitate to show you the door.
I assure you, if I make it to year end, I will be at the very front of the line with my hat in hand.
loyalty in banking? what?
I think this should be somewhat of a cautionary tale for prospective and aspiring finance monkeys out there: don't get into it for the money. Yes you can and will earn good money (especially compared to your peers), but the allure and motivating aspect of money will quickly evaporate and you'll be burned out quickly.Trust me.
You don't need to love finance to the point of debating EBITDA a bar, but have a good reason for why you are doing it...that way you can internally justify when you're at the office at 3am / when you have to constantly cancel plans / when bonus numbers don't look great ("flat is the new up").
It's easy to kid yourself however. I knew the hours going into my BB M&A internship, but it is difficult to process how long 16+ hour days are without actually working them. Also, I still enjoy reading about business deals going on etc., so I figured I also liked finance enough. Turns out, I loved the idea of being a "banker" much more than banking.
Second the notion. You'll also have to justify the extra 5-10 lbs when the gym is out and late-night takeout is in.
lol for loyalty in banking. Is that what firms tell their analysts when they give crap bonuses
what I'd do
decide on what your next move is for sure (not just an idea, but a firm plan, even if it's just a 6 month plan like "get into MSE program")
while you're still at work, capture as much detail as possible about the deals you've worked on, it'll be immensely easier now. even though you're leaving finance, that doesn't mean the experience is irrelevant.
don't quit until you've secured the next step. here's my thinking: you can probably get into school while still working, and I'm betting you're late to the game on fall 2016 matriculation, so if you quit now and say you're going to get into school for next year, that's over 12 months without a paycheck, not smart. that money should be used for tuition.
when you quit, just say something along the lines of "I've decided to go back to school, I appreciate all of the time and experience I've had here, and I wish you all the best." if you've built any special relationships that you want to call on later, definitely say something a little more substantive than that, but just make it a clean break.
before you quit, be sure you have good relationships with your superiors, you may need them later in life. if you don't/you're not sure, now's the time to cement those
I'd second the point about making sure you don't regret this decision. You may realize that you took a lot for granted at some point.
take some time off and think about this more thoroughly before making any moves. You'd be surprised how many people irrationally quit their finance jobs, then quickly realizing when they want to go back, it's gonna take a hell of a detour.
Definitely. Even if I did throw in the towel before year end, it'd probably be in July and I've got a long weekend planned between now and then to think it through my convictions. No sense abandoning ship if I'm ultimately going to be miserable somewhere else, and probably making less.
Hey guys - thanks to all for the advice & insight. Very much appreciated. Honestly can't say enough good things about the user base on here.
For a little more background, I actually started down the path of engineering in college, but my buddy's older brother landed an SA gig at a BB. When I heard about the comp I took the bait hook line and sinker. Switched majors. Figured (1) the work doesn't seem that hard, (2) for that kind of money, liking my job would be irrelevant, and (3) it's all just sitting at desks and staring at computers, who cares. Read the war stories on WSO, heard about the hours and the drudgery, but wasn't deterred. I worked 2 shit jobs all through college and figured banking was my ticket up and out. A banker's salary looks pretty fucking good next to minimum wage.
And to be clear, I don't regret any of this experience. As a generally average kid from a non-target, I am eternally grateful to WSO, my buddy's brother, and sheer dumb luck that I was able to get into Lev Fin & IB. The exposure to manufacturing & industrial companies, senior leadership, and general middle market business operations has been extremely valuable and given me a much better understanding of how companies actually work.
It's just that my analysis was way off. Liking the job matters, it's not all the same, and the paycheck is a nice moment every few weeks, but there's all the daily blocking and tackling. Plus, the best analysts are the ones that are engaged and care. That are ready to did deep on those buyer profiles at 7pm on a Friday. I will be the first to admit that I go through the motions and put out a decent work product (to avoid having to redo it and minimize as many edits as possible), but do I really care? Do I do 15 CapIQ screens at 7pm on a Friday to make sure I've turned every rock and found every buyer? ...No. So I'm never going to be a top-tier analyst/associate/VP/MD, not even if I wanted to.
RE: School, Money & Timing - since I did take some classes already, I'm only three 18-credit semesters away from a second undergrad degree from the ol' alma mater. Re-enrolling and finishing the undergrad degree would be under $40k, and I have enough cash in savings to cover the cost out of pocket + rent and food while I'm in school, so staying in IB for the bonus isn't totally necessary (variable cost structure - 23yo, single, live with a roommate in a small apartment, no car/student loan payments). If I wanted to go right into a Masters, I'd need to raise some capital, but cross that bridge at a later date. It'd mostly be for additional safety net money in case the economy tanks or one of my parents gets a horrible disease and needs help with bills.
Listen man, this is my first comment on WSO. I'm here to STOP YOU or to get you to ATLEAST RECONSIDER this back to school thought.
I'm an engineer, trying to make the switch to finance now. The fact is engineering is not about building some shit for 98% of the engineers out there. You will likely be BSing at most Fortune 500 companies as an engineer. Same stuff, powerpoints, some spreadsheets/specialized software, TONS of emailing, lots of project management, telling contractors what to do (they are the ones who do the real work). And you dont want to work for a contractor, trust me.
When you actually get a job, for the 1st 5-10 years no will trust you or give you any major responsibility. Also engineering is extremely specialized. The industry and the work you do for even 2-3 years will essentially pigeonhole you for the rest of your life.
As an engineer, you will be very lucky if you break into a 100k job somewhere. After that expect 3-5% salary increase every year for the rest of your fucking life assuming you dont get laid off or offshored. Most likely you will plateau somewhere in 10-15 years and that will be it.
Lets talk about hours. Engineering is not 9-5. Usually its a 50-60 hour job for most engineers. Many of the higher paying jobs require you to work odd hours, travel a lot and work weekends. During busy season, you will put in 60-70 hour weeks. Vacation is typically 2 weeks.
Again your employer will own you basically.
The only exception to the above rule is working for a federal government agency as an engineer. Now that will be the good life. 40 hours at the office, 5 hours of actual work, plenty of vacation, and cannot get laid off or fired. A few friends of mine do this and they are the only people who enjoy a stress free life.
One thing banking can do you for you is make you financially independent in 10 years timeframe. That is worth grinding through I think. After that do whatever you want. Go back to school if you really want too..
I left high finance and it was the best decision I've made in my life. Now I'm about to go to business school and have great dialogue with a lot of companies that ACTUALLY MAKE SOMETHING that I care about - I like cars, video games and sports (lol) - and it isn't hard to set up a phone chat with semi-important people at cool companies because investment banking on your resume is, for whatever reason, a hallowed thing everywhere in the business world.
Work is work and it's nigh impossible to find a job that you can't wait to go to every single morning. On the flip side, I truly believe that if you find a company that aligns with your interests, passions, etc., it will be MUCH easier for you to perform at a high level and enjoy what you're doing. This is the approach I've taken - I don't even know what the hell I want to do post-MBA, but I know I want to work at a short-list of maybe 8-10 companies or sports teams that really speak to me.
I would not leave without that bonus check unless showing up to work literally leaves you nauseated. Even if you already have the money for school, a little cushion couldn't hurt. Also, I would really research what type of engr you want to be, one of my closest friends works at Dell with an electrical engr degree and hates it, he wants to go to med school now.
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