Real Estate Masters Programs ( Anyone know someone whose gone?)

I have been looking into USC's and they have the salary exiting the program with the latest version being 2013 in the link below.

http://lusk.usc.edu/resources/employers/employment-report

I've spoken to a few USC grads who did the MBA program with the second year MRED. One had a RE background and the other was in Equity Research prior to, and both said the network was amazing, but in terms of getting a job it came down to the person attending all network events/OCR and sometimes used job boards to land interviews. While speaking to other colleagues, they have mentioned teachers have recommended them to other positions that include Eastdil/REITs/REPE. One had mentioned to me, based off my personal goals, that if I could attain a certain position and climb that way, he recommended not taking on the debt, but I still have a few years to decide and am still leaning towards going to the program.

It is from my understanding that if you enter a MSRE program with solid real estate experience (1-3 years of underwriting experience), you can secure an associate level position at a REIT or REPE upon graduating. If you enroll and have little to no experience, you'll end up as an analyst (regardless of age).

Is it worth it? Depends what you're looking for and if you're realistic about the type of job you can get. If you're a leasing broker with no experience analyzing deals, you can't expect an analyst gig at Starwood in NYC after graduating with honors from Florida MSRE. Your best bet is to study in the region where you want to be based in.

Again, this is what I have been told.

This topic has been covered multiple times however I always like revisiting because I plan on doing my MBA in the next couple years. Based on the research I have done (my own opinion) the only MSRE programs worth doing if you are in the REPE/REIT world is MIT and maybe USC. (Potentially Cornell as well I have heard great things but not enough to comment) Aside from those programs I feel you are better off doing an MBA at any top 20 program.

I think this has been discussed a lot here.

But, a credited and logical response is to do your own 'forensic' search through Linkedin and see the before and after results for people attending the different MSRE's together with how "thick" the industry is with certain ones, in your given locale like LA/NYC/Miami, as this would show the corners and reaches of one's network within the program (and that is critical in RE). Also, how business oriented or self starting are the grads (how many msred's and from where started their own fund or firm).

If possible, reach out to as many as can with your specific questions. Better yet, invite them to lunch and get the bird's eye viewpoint. This is the most objective and evidence based method for getting the granular detail you want for such an important decision.

An MSRE is not something (as is any MBA outside of the M3, IMHO) to hang on your wall to impress anyone with how smart you are (get a PHD in chemical engineering, an American MD or a Tier 1 JD, heck many here would argue the CFA credential if that is your goal ~ unless an applicant pool is clustering tightly at the 96 percentile and up in all admission 'hard' metrics - the degree being a bona fide "this guy is smart" signal is just not credible). Candidly, the MSRE-d is a functional and professional tool to get you where you want to go in a very competitive and lucrative industry both knowledge-skill-tech-ability/wise and network/wise. No one is going to thing you are a rocket scientist because you did your MSRE at MIT or Florida State.

On message boards you really don't know who has a certain ego-istic dog in the race (like the whole Sock Puppet account fiasco on this real estate planner board cyburbia or something like that, and also on Businessweek forum. The guy outed and banned was a USC MBA/MIT MSRE grad caught vehemently*vociferously "pumping up" those programs using that method) and if their information is unbiased and credible. So, study linkedin, meet with the grads over email and for coffee and you will be able to make an informed decision.

I'm currently at Georgetown's program. I wouldn't call it a "prominent" program, but Georgetown and Johns Hopkins in the D.C. area churn out a multitude of industry employees. I think the key is to matriculate into a program that is in the city that you want to work in. For example, if you want to work in NYC, don't go to USC's program. As Rice_And_Beans mentioned, utilize Linkedin to search for people who have attended a program that you're interested in and see what type of roles and at what type of firms they are in; that's all the information you really need. If you find that people with x number of years experience plus the subject RE master's degree are working at x firm and x level then you know there is a path.

I'd go into any real estate master's program with a game plan. I'm an experienced professional (8 years now), so my goals are a bit different than others. A good portion of my classmates have little experience or crappy experience (e.g. entry-level sales job at CoStar or something). They are in the program to network their way into a better job or to transition into the industry; therefore, they undertake tasks that would improve their odds (i.e. taking on a professor mentor, attending job fairs, etc.). Some of my classmates are there to attach the program to their resume to sell to their prospective clients. I'm there for three primary reasons: 1) to check a box to ensure that my resume does not get discarded when I'm applying for the next level up job in my career path; 2) to meet a handful of highly intelligent, highly competent people who I can make part of my personal network; 3) the unforeseeable opportunity (one of my classmates places foreign equity into U.S. real estate transactions; she was impressed with me, so we are now working together to potentially do some major deals where she will place money into my own transactions). So figure out your goals and evaluate if the RE master's program of your choice can help you accomplish those goals.

Top 25 MBA > RE master's in most instances. However, you need to do a cost-benefit analysis. I compared Gtown's MBA program to its RE master's program. The cost differential was $+100,000 for the MBA, and a Linkedin search found that people who had completed the real estate master's program were in the job roles that I desired. So my cost-benefit analysis told me that MBA made no sense for me.

Virginia, I believe you took the right and highly methodical approach which is now even easier that we have empirical resources like Linkedin and more ubiquitous company websites that give us demo data on owners, operators and employees.

Agree with you about the opening doors comment. It seems like every job for any RE job of substance says RE Master's or MBA preferred, so it is a way of checking that box or not being hindered by lack-thereof in the future.

Feel free to PM me. I went through a Master of Real Estate Program and have worked along side many MBA's with real estate concentrations.

I'm currently in a MRED program and one of my best friends is a graduate of Georgetown's. Feel free to ask me any questions.

To answer your questions:

1. For my friend, and for various other people I have met from my own program, it was most definitely worth it.

2. I would say there is no point in doing it if you plan on getting an MBA eventually because there is a lot of overlap.

3. Programs' websites don't tout post-graduation salaries because the classes are a lot less homogenous than those of MBA programs. I'd say my class is 1/4 experienced professionals in other professions trying to break into real estate, 1/4 experienced commercial real estate people who are trying to break into the upper tier of companies/positions, 1/4 someone about a year out of undergrad, and 1/4 people whose parents are a big fucking deal in real estate who are trying to learn the business before they inherit it. As a result, you're going to see a wide variance in exit stats - not because of the program itself - but because of a person's prior resume. We all come out with the same classes, and we all get the same "bump" if you will, but the starting point for each person is different.

CRE,

What advice would you give guys who are entering a RE Master's program to optimize/maximize their post-grad job prospects (taking from your own experience and those of the array of MSRE(d) friends that you have).

Thanks.

Cre, Appreciate the run-down and am sure others who are stepping on that road now do as well.

CRE, makes sense. Thanks.

The most important thing is that you have a definitive idea of where you want to be and a general sense of what you want to do upon entering the program. I matriculated into NYU Schack Institute of Real Estate immediately after graduating undergrad (degree in Finance) and exited two years later with a highly coveted entry-level position in acquisitions at a top real estate investment management company who highly valued my degree. In addition to exit opportunities, the main benefit of the program is that your courses and classmates will help you hone in on the area of real estate that interests you the most. Being in New York is an obvious plus since most of your professors and guest lecturers are top practitioners in the industry and the casual conversation with them after class goes a long way. In my opinion MSRE > MBA if you are pursuing a specific real estate career.

To be fair to Spybreak's statements: Linkedin does show a veritable army of students who completed the NYU Master's of real estate program (particularly the finance and investment track which has a majority of its classes requiring presented/graded excel modeling work*, and regular team projects that mimic "real life" investment-acquisition-development scenarios --- which would mean less in-house training or on-boarding required by an employer) and went from another industry altogether or from a non-direct investment role in real estate to a direct investment position (buy-side acquisition; re dev investment) at very solid brand name and national/international shops.

Those people, for the most part, were not fresh faced undergrads and the causative link for the crossover or major jump forward was the 2 year RE Master's program from NYU, and its very deep local networks. It is not one or two people, but rather a consensus one reaches when sifting through all the online data (and piecing together the puzzle anecdotally from email and coffee interviews and industry networking events). Location, network and post-grad residency (most NYU grad's have committed to NYC and its market long term with low post-grad-flight) are strong components. Toss a rock at an active re investment shop, in NYC for example, and you WILL hit someone from that school. Take this fact and that most people in RE, if polled, will say that they got their position from a contact (almost never a job board/posting) and these numbers and results make sense. Another note was that many grads seem to have complementary skill-sets in other professional disciplines. I am not sure if this is a unique thing to MSRE program grads but it definitely seems more prevalent in the NYU cohort. Also, I think the "Entrepreneurial Zeal" of a program should not be overlooked - and this program has an inordinate amount of the more seasoned grads starting their own investment shops (proactively using the program and all its resources: from a former team member to fill in an acumen/experience gap like a cpa, jd, CFA, arch, pm in the firm to putting known professors on their board-of-advisers to facilitate funding and investor relations, as a ramp-up to launch their acquisition firm since they already pieced together their experience in the industry before matriculating).

All noted, most of the mentioned degrees, an mba or the msre, are never going to be a silver career bullet and you are going to have to hustle from day zero to pluck and unearth the many opportunity that are growing around you (which you ignore at your peril - come graduation time): from the classmate sitting next to you (who may come from literally a 'family office' and is there getting groomed to take over the generational business or works for a company that you covet), to your regular class-wide presentations (you could be presenting to your next boss or partner and not know it - so make it count!), to the industry working professor giving the day's lecture, graduate internships on offer, to the sponsored industry events, to the CASE competitions you can be get involved with, alumni mentorship programs from being one to having one, incidental partnership opportunities with project team members when a virtual project looks like something to be taken into the real world, etc.

If you go through these programs with your "eyes wide shut" and forgo all these opportunities then you should save "the almost six figures in tuition" and invest it on your own in some form/facet of a re project. This paragraph cannot be over-emphasized enough when it comes to any real estate master's programs whether it's NYU or any of the other usual suspects. You MUST be a program-inside-a-program, working your own business plan from the break, so to speak

Like the saying goes "Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle".

It all comes down to a cost [lost time, income and out of pocket expense], for opportunity equation. And each person is going to fix a different and unique weight to those variables [furthered by the common example that a long time NY/C resident with family and a growing career in the City, is very unlikely to re-locate to California or Mass when they know their re goal is NYC, and re is bar none the most 'local network-driven' businesses in this country].

• Random Sampling of some of referenced NYU MSRE Finance & Investment classes: Regional Economics & Market Analysis (REAL-GC 1045) Real Estate Finance (REAL-GC 1035) Real Estate Accounting & Taxation (REAL-GC 1005) corporate finance (REAL-GC 1070) Real Estate Valuation & Feasibility (REAL-GC 1055) Capital Markets (REAL-GC 1095) Real Estate Finance & Investment Analysis (REAL-GC 2300) Corporate Mergers & Acquisitions (FINC 3196) Advanced Accounting for Mergers, Acquisitions, and Restructuring (ACCT 3330) Analyzing REIT Securities (REAL-GC 3055) Taxes & Investing (FINC-GB 2110) Risk & portfolio management (REAL-GC 2315) Acquisition Procedures & Analysis with Argus Software (REAl-GC 3145) Advanced Seminar in Financial Modeling with presented case studies and intra-class competition to live investment board of industry professionals (Argus and Excel)

Haha second time I have gotten Monkey Shit from Spybreak. Throw some more its not going to make your NYU Schack degree better than an M-7. My contributions are done in this thread....toss some more...have at it

I'm a USC MRED graduate, now working at a retail REIT in the SF Bay Area. My 8 years of experience prior to the MRED program was ancilliary to real estate: I am a professional engineer, practiced land development engineering for 4 years, then moved on to construction consulting for 4 years.

First: I chose an MRED program over an MBA for three main reasons: 1. I knew I wanted to end up working for a real estate developer; 2. After 4 years working at a Big 4 accounting firm, I already had significant exposure to general financial analysis, marketing, and presentation skills (the biggest difference between an MBA and an MRED is the "general" vs. real estate specific curriculum); and 3. The employment pool has become over-saturated with MBA graduates... so how do you set yourself apart from the rest?

While at USC, I was equally impressed with the caliber of the professors/lecturers and my classmates. The professor pool is a good balance of academics and practitioners. We were taught based on real deals happening in the current market, as well as lessons-learned from past markets. My peers and classmates had a wide variety of experience: brokers, analysts, developers, architects, engineers... we learned from each other as much as we learned from the professors.

Immediately after the program I had multiple job offers thanks to my own hard work and networking; however, the USC network is unparalled to any other. Even when leaving Southern California, I have found that USC MRED graduates are much more helpful and tied into the alumni network than other graduate program alumns.

In summary, I would evaluate your current skill set and future goals, then go from there. Where do you want to end up after grad school: at what company, in what role, at what City... consider it all.

p.s. to shed some light on my support for USC, I am a UCLA Bruin undergrad who attended USC without any second guessing that it was the best choice...

Lol people are so insecure and sensitive about their school choice. MBA business schools ">M7 is hands down better. NYU Accepts EVERYONE. Tons of foreign kids that barely speak english and don't know the market unfortunately. BUT I'm a firm believer of making the best of everything. I go to NYU. But Ive been working in the industry full time and go to school part time.

Honestly, NYU won't get you a job, their recruitment efforts are horrible. But if you network you ass off, you can land an awesome job. Friends of mine landed a job at some of the top companies that are coveted on this board (think eastdil, GS, KKR; etc.). Even though NYU (or any MSRE) education isn't that great, the network is worth it. Since NYU has such huge classes, you can find an NYU Shack grad at ANY company. & I've never had a fellow alum not respond to an email; etc. This is real estate we're talking about. If you can't network and find yourself a job, you shouldn't be in the industry IMO.

This got angry, didn't it? I'm a MRED student and I think it's absurd to say that my degree is somehow better than a top MBA. The big boys in the industry actively recruit on campus at MBA programs. I'm not barred from getting a job there (this isn't banking, after all) but it's still far more on me than it would be for a top MBA student.

That said, I'm going to echo YoungBiz and others in saying that while a Master in Real Estate doesn't open the door for you and push you through like a Harvard MBA might, it does certainly give you the key. Inevitably, there are people who graduated from your program, your school in general, sit on your program's advancement board, donate to your university, etc. that are big in the industry. You have 1-2 years to find these people, talk to them, genuinely ask their advice, take it, get introduced to other people through them, and build a network. Meanwhile you're learning how to build pro formas and study markets and other junk that you might not know if you're a career switcher (and many in these programs are.)

In another thread, someone recently bemoaned that the "MBA network" is overrated, and it might have been the worst shitpost on WSO. The network in business programs is everything. It is 99% of the benefit of being there. It is what you are paying for when you cut that tuition check. Big time alumni and supporters want to help you out because if you are successful, they look good. (Not to mention you can be groomed to make them more money.) You want to talk to big time alumni and supporters because it gets you a job. Networking in business school is the perfect combination of everyone acting in their own best interest and it still ending up mutually beneficial.

Is the Real estate masters program worth it in conjunction with an MBA at one of these programs or is it redundant with an MBA if im going to focus on finance and real estate finance. My long term goal is to be part of a fund that invests in real estate and stocks/bonds or real estate PE.

To get there I will probably have to do IB or IB real estate to position myself for my long term goal.

So you think that the Real estate masters is more in depth than the MBA classes. For Cornell and USC normally each program would be 2 years each but if you do it together only 3 years.

Just got accepted to Texas A&M's MSRE

Well, USC does pretty poorly with buyside ( at least outside of real estate) and IB for the MBA unfortunately. Cornell does fairly well in IB but poorly in HF/PE/VC ( outside of real estate)but I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the cornell MBA program.

I know how both of the MBA programs. But I wonder what real estate program is better between cornell and USC. Anyone know? Better long term pay, jobs and so on

Can anyone provide insight into which T10 programs are strongest in Real Estate? I aim to apply to M7 schools with a few outside of M7 that are well-located near primary markets.

1. Penn (Wharton)
2. MIT
3. Columbia
4. UC-Berkeley
5. NYU
6. UCLA

Does anyone have insight into the strength of the few top programs that I did not mention (HBS, GSB, Kellogg, Fuqua, Tuck, Booth).

I assume you're referring to MBA programs, so the answer is almost always in lockstep with the traditional rankings. Of course, an argument could be made that a relatively top program such as UNC with an extensive and comprehensive real estate focus is academically superior to a school whose real estate focus is merely a course or two on real estate finance, but not every employer will care about that argument. Real estate is far less lockstep than say, banking, so some employers definitely will care, but others are far more interested in the Harvard/Stanford/Whartons of the world regardless of actual coursework.

If you personally care more about rankings, or you want to work for a company that cares more about rankings, then go to the "best" school you get accepted into. If you personally care more about the depth of your real estate education, then go to the best ranked school with a legitimate real estate focus you can get into or give Master of Real Estate programs a more serious look.

People seem to be misguided in this thread regarding breaking into REPE and real estate in general.

Real Estate Experience and where you got it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MBA/MRE

If MBA/MRE leads to real estate experience at good firms that teach you everything about the in's and out's of the industry you will be successful.

I'm new here (first comment!) but I'm surprised UW Madison's real estate MBA hasn't come up in this discussion. It's not a top 10 MBA program but Wisconsin has a long history of research and education in real estate and urban land economics with an active alumni network. Bonus points for getting an MBA with a solid real estate education rather than an MBA with two or three real estate classes.

Thanks CRE , I agree that at the end of the day, a prestigious MBA more often than not will be viewed more positively than a stronger RE Concentration at a lesser ranked school. With that said, given the list that I provided, can you (or anyone in this forum) speak to the merits of the strength of the RE Concentration at the M7 schools? No worries if you're unsure as I've had a hard time finding solid information myself.

Anyone in the Baruch MSRE Program? The cost is like a quarter of Schack.. I understand there is not much of a network or "face value", but is there any value?

all these are good programs. I'd also check out Texas's real estate finance MBA. For what it's worth, they just took 1st in the national real estate challenge and every top 20 mba program sent a team.

bump

If done correctly, NYU will get you where you want to go. With that said, networking is key from day 1 and you will need a lot of legwork. And you must be strategic about it. If you are a recent college grad, time your graduation date with the undergrad graduation date so that you can take advantage of OCR.

As a recent Schack graduate, I am truly amazed by the level of misinformation in this thread.

Unless if you are relatively fresh out of undergrad, I would avoid at all costs. The on-campus recruiting is almost nonexistent, and the quality of the student pool has dramatically weakened.

If I had a chance to redo it, I would have gone for my MBA with a specialization in real estate.

I had a really good experience with the University of Wisconsin MBA program. I was living/working in Chicago prior to going back to grad school, and in addition to Wisconsin, I considered Kellogg and UPenn. All great schools, but I went with Wisconsin because of its extensive and very engaged real estate alumni network. Frankly, the educational value of most MBA programs is minimal, in my opinion (unless you're a career changer). The real value of the MBA as you go through your career will be the connections you make and the doors it opens. In this regard, I think Wisconsin and the Wisconsin Real Estate Alumni network is second to none.

Now with that said, if you have a strong geographical preference for where you want to live/work post graduation, I would recommend going to a top program in that region. I thought I was going back to Chicago after the MBA so Wisconsin was fine with me. I ended up relocating to the West coast and I actually got my job through introductions made by UW alumni. So it worked out, but it probably would have been easier to network/interview had I gone to a school in the region such as USC...

Does anyone know who is recruited better between USC MRED and Cornell MRED. Are they both about the same but just different regions?

I cant access the Cornell MRED placements anymore. The USC ones look pretty damn good. Just curious if either can place into top 20 RE PE firms. I'll have an MBA as well and 1 year in real estate experience not including any real estate internships I decide to do.

Also does traditional PE , IB, investments make more than their real estate counterparts RE IB, RE PE, and REITS?

No mention of Columbia MSRED??

It's this simple: if you are relatively well connected and can land a role as a graduate intern at a reputable shop that has institutional backing, while attending school - then get a Masters. Still need to network like crazy, as RE is a contact sport.

If you aren't connected, and you're new to RE - get a top 15 MBA.

I did hear NYU is making a big push to toughen up on admissions standards.

Hello Guys,

I am looking at applying to NYU Schack MSRE for the Fall looking to get in to Acquisitions/Dispositions, I was wondering what backgrounds they look for? And is the acceptance rate that high?

I graduated UG in May with a 3.164 GPA and have just recently left a FT Risk Assurance gig at a Big 4 accounting firm to pursue Commercial Real Estate. my other work experience is in Market Research internship with a large book publisher, a summer analyst gig at a start up PE shop, and a project management internship with a big 3 PE shop (Think Bain Cap, Blackstone, KKR). Would this background be sufficient to apply without GMAT or should I look to get a 650+ on GMAT and apply for spring 2017. I am also sitting for CFA L1 in June.

Best Regards