When to Resign

I am going to be resigning from a BB IBD position to join a different BB. I will be getting the offer letter early next week. Of course, I will wait until the official letter comes in, but I am wondering if is it typical to wait until the background check is complete and everything is truly finalized? I have a minor drug misdemeonor charge from 2011 (which shouldn't be an issue), but would still rather wait until they perform the background check. Thoughts?

 

Personally, I’d wait until the background check is cleared before resigning. In a worse case scenario, they find the charge, pull the offer after you’ve resigned from the first BB, and you’re stuck without options. And if that happens, then you’re stuck with having to come up with a story on why you were suddenly unemployed at interviews...

What’s the harm in waiting?

 

(1) this wouldn’t be an issue if you had a clean background.

(2) give notice to your old employer at the last possible moment. It’s common for them to say “we don’t need two weeks notice, your last day is today”. So there’s little incentive to give them early notice.

 

Even if they give you shit about waiting for the background check to clear (they won’t), just tell them you have heard of people taking a very long time to clear (100% true) and you can’t/won’t go without a paycheck. I have heard of cases that have literally taken months to clear, specifically because of someone with the same/similar name doing fucked up stuff and it took time to confirm that it wasn’t the same person. Not saying this is common, but why take the risk?

 

100,000% wait for background check to clear.

I have had this exact situation dick fuld has described where someone was speeding and recklessly driving and from my understanding turned into some sort chase in a state i have never been in but had my name. So the offense got linked to me some how.

Had my offer intially pulled and then reinstated once things cleared up. It took forever to clear things up and my group was ready to just forget the offer because of delayed timing but MD was patient and liked me.

Moral of the story, the strangest shit can happen so don't resign until everything is cleared.

 

And as a side note

In my experience it generally doesn’t mater how long you’ve been with the company or how ‘beloved’ you are. Once you quit you’re done, it’s pretty... interesting to say the least how people’s attitudes shift towards people that quit. BFF’s before, after that - “who?”

 

Hey junior_to_buyside, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot...do any of these help:

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No promises, but sometimes if we mention a user, they will share their wisdom: ajanatka Anthony-Irwin kcampbell11

I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

I see this as somewhat misguided. I thought from your title that you would have put much more substantial effort into securing an S&T role. Basically there was a bad stroke of luck and now you're ready to give up

Have you tried networking with those guys to see what opportunities in the industry or at other companies are? Any of them could give you a recommendation and it only takes one of their friends to give you a shot. Also, it's only been 2 years since your MBA, don't include MBA as your time gearing towards being a trader unless you networked during that time and studied trading all the time

You can quit and that is not necessarily a bad thing as there are many other opportunities available. But it seems like you are afraid of actually trying. Networking 'your ass off' doesn't count if it was only at your existing firm. That being said, your networking did pay off as you now have something to put on your resume. I would spin that experience like crazy and make it stand out.

You just need to cast a much wider net...

 
globalmacro:
I see this as somewhat misguided. I thought from your title that you would have put much more substantial effort into securing an S&T role. Basically there was a bad stroke of luck and now you're ready to give up

Have you tried networking with those guys to see what opportunities in the industry or at other companies are? Any of them could give you a recommendation and it only takes one of their friends to give you a shot. Also, it's only been 2 years since your MBA, don't include MBA as your time gearing towards being a trader unless you networked during that time and studied trading all the time

You can quit and that is not necessarily a bad thing as there are many other opportunities available. But it seems like you are afraid of actually trying. Networking 'your ass off' doesn't count if it was only at your existing firm. That being said, your networking did pay off as you now have something to put on your resume. I would spin that experience like crazy and make it stand out.

You just need to cast a much wider net...

This
 

That's probably a better way to look at things. I just figure at my age it might be getting a little late. I was trying to apply some self depricating humor in my initial post.

Thanks for the different perspective. As this just happened, I guess I am being too dramatic. Perhaps I just need to work harder. But you say it is not impossible so I guess that is a good start.

 

Option 4. Daytrade your PA.

I lost my job as a trader last year, due to health reasons. My health is still recovering but in the meantime I started daytrading and I'm having a lot of fun doing it. In fact, I'm not sure I want to go back into S&T.

If it goes well you can bring your track record to future interviews, which is always a plus.

 

Really? One job didn't go your way and you want to quit. What will you do when a trade doesn't go your way, quit?

Reach out to any ND alumni possible, any alumni from your UG, anyone you may have met along the way. Speak with the traders who liked you see if they can help. They know people at other banks and can pass your name a long.

 

The sales and trading industry has been steadily declining in the past years. There are less players, increased automation, fewer 'good' trades, less pay and increased competition due to the amount of laid off talent out there. You should realize this and understand that breaking into trading involves a lot of luck and determination. Since you have your MBA, it is tougher IMO to break into a trading role since they see the MBA and think it makes you a somewhat less serious candidate for trading. Trading has fewer spots in general, and I feel that they are going to the more quanty candidates (MFE, Stats/math, engineering). MBA is not a deal breaker but it does not translate well since its more theoretical in nature.

I think you are best off leveraging your network and working in IB or some buyside (AM/IM) role. I know sell side trading seems lucrative and fun, but realize that the trading floor is very intense and stressful. Buy side roles teach you more and you can always go to a sell side shop later if and when the markets pick up. Always have perspective, it's better to play the trends than end up in a pigeon holed position such as trading a dead or declining product (ie muni's, cash-equities). An observation from my time is that most of the senior traders or people in the senior trading positions started out in research, buyside programs, IB, ops or something unrelated but highly relevant (military). Your not going to be a rockstar trader fresh out of b-school since your not going to be trusted to take big risks until you can prove yourself. Trading requires very thick skin and never giving up. To be honest, if you are this crushed at not breaking in, you might have a hard time adapting to the trading culture. Good luck

 

The S&T industry is just tough right now. The number of sales jobs have shrunk while the applicant pool continues to grow. Most major banks have started to lay off non-BSD senior sales people and back fill their books with younger just as capable talent. Furthermore, the affect of Dodd-Frank is going to start diminishing spread based revenue and limit the opportunity for lucrative relationships. While these factors will certainly not kill the industry, it has changed, and the prospects of getting a job on the sell side at a major bank are slim.

In terms of trading, with no track record in trading and no quant background you are certainly not the "typical" candidate. It is also important to understand the dynamics on the Trading side of S&T. The Volcker rule has limited prop activity at banks. It still exists but not in the same way it did five or even two years ago. The odds of finding your way into a trading job at a BB are virtually non existent.

The best opportunity for you, if you want to get into trading, is going to be at a small prop shop. I'd look in Chicago and Houston. Small prop shops are good in the sense that they do not have formal hiring and they are genuinely more concerned with personality and passion than they are pedigree. They are bad because you will make absolute dirt until you start trading and, in certain circumstances, you may have to work nights.

If you want to make it into this industry its time to go for broke. I'm talking balls to the wall MJ while sick, Byron Leftwich getting carried down the field, Kerri Strug at the olympics type shit.

If you can't do that get out. Feel free to PM if you want to talk. I've worked at a Prop shop and a bank.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Take a few days of that vacation and wait till it's a sure thing. Then give four weeks notice.
thanks but i would much rather finish everything here (am moving cities as well), take a vacation, move into the new city and start work. do you know how that works?
 

Wait until you have jumped through all the hoops for the new job and signed the contract before you tell your current employer. In the meantime you might as well take all the vacation you have as it will likely be wasted if unused. Some companies will prorate it for you so check into that. Make sure you give a minimum of the four weeks notice they require, you don't want to burn any bridges this early in the game. Depending on your situation and relationship with your boss you can give more to help them out but you have to feel that out. You don't want to be out of work for longer than you have to be. Every company has different policies so it's hard to say what they will let you do, if you have a contact in HR you can trust not to screw you I would talk to them about it.

 
judowned:
Wait until you have jumped through all the hoops for the new job and signed the contract before you tell your current employer. In the meantime you might as well take all the vacation you have as it will likely be wasted if unused. Some companies will prorate it for you so check into that. Make sure you give a minimum of the four weeks notice they require, you don't want to burn any bridges this early in the game. Depending on your situation and relationship with your boss you can give more to help them out but you have to feel that out. You don't want to be out of work for longer than you have to be. Every company has different policies so it's hard to say what they will let you do, if you have a contact in HR you can trust not to screw you I would talk to them about it.

Probably your best bet. Good luck.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
GoodBread:
I'm thinking the very beginning of August, but I'm starting in late September.

Where are you going GB (if you don't mind me asking publicly)? If you want to PM, that's cool. Thanks.

 

Orientation starts in the beginning of August for me. I am literally working up until the day before I leave to move in. So, I might have a couple days off for traveling and settling in. Personally, I'd rather have the extra money over taking a vacation.

I'm interested in how you guys resigned though. I'm planning on giving two weeks notice. But I'm not sure if I should write an official letter of resignation or how it all works.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/finance/buy-side>Buyside <abbr title=Chartered Financial Analyst>CFA</abbr></a></span>:
I would rather burn my vacation time in the spring/early summer, and then work untill school started. I get 15 days off a year - might as well get paid while I am on vacation.

My vacation is "use it or lose it," so I'll probably take a week or two off in June and July and get paid for it. It won't be a Ric Flair jetsetting vacation though, just go to cape cod with family. Then as soon as I get back to work BOOM two weeks notice.

 

My program starts in September but I'm so fucking sick of this job (consulting). I cant wait to make the transition to banking! Just hanging on till the end of July coz the bills gotta get paid man fuck.

Still I Rise
 

It will be though to explain the gap in your resume since many people are working and taking the CFA or learning other things.the hardest step would be getting hr to get you an interview but I think if you got in front of someone you would be able to explain it. You also better pass the CFA and be a pro at excel or else this would all be a waste. I don't really understand how you would study and do this everyday for 8 months that's overkill

 

I look at unemployed applicants very scepitically.

If you quit your old job before lining up your new job, you're very brave.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
SSits:

I look at unemployed applicants very scepitically.

If you quit your old job before lining up your new job, you're very brave.

With spelling like that, you should be open to all types of candidates. :-)

But honestly- having a gap on your resume isnt the worst thing. But you better have a good reason why its there.

Quitting because you hate your job would appear flakey and demonstrate that you couldn't handle the burden of networking while working.

What you must do is find that special sweet spot- of working 'just enough' at your job, while expending the rest of your efforts on your job search.

"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."
 

Sometimes it is hard to tell if my movements is restricted by fear and the conforming society, or if I am being smart by not taking a gamble. I read books and every chapter seems like a different perspective.

I guess if I am not sure what is right than I will be stoic and stay until I figure it out.. hopefully,

 

If the position itself is better it's a no-brainer. If you're going primarily for the social aspects because it's London (and I used to live in London and love the city so I understand wanting to live there) rather than your small city but your current position offers better long terms opps (either at that firm or exits from that firm if you stay for a longer time), then you need to weigh which is more important: living in London for the lifestyle vs. your current city for the pure career choice.

London most likely offers more opportunities overall but if you choose that option I'd try to stay at that job for at least 2 years, if not a few more because you have jumped around a bit so far.

 

Thanks guys for your feedback and it really helps me to put things into perspective. My background is in Treasury Front Office for a global corporate with headquarter based in a small city. New role is similar but will have more focus on structuring ABS deals for the company. Since it is a small and fast growing company, there will also be opportunities to do some corporate finance projects too. I will report directly to the treasurer who is an ex-Wall Street banker. So i am sure there will be a lot i can learn from him.

Comp is not comparable to IB, but enough to have a reasonable live in London i guess. £45-£60k range. I am targeting £50+ to take the offer. Any Londoner has thought about this range?

 
chronk:

Thanks guys for your feedback and it really helps me to put things into perspective.
My background is in Treasury Front Office for a global corporate with headquarter based in a small city. New role is similar but will have more focus on structuring ABS deals for the company. Since it is a small and fast growing company, there will also be opportunities to do some corporate finance projects too. I will report directly to the treasurer who is an ex-Wall Street banker. So i am sure there will be a lot i can learn from him.

Comp is not comparable to IB, but enough to have a reasonable live in London i guess. PS45-PS60k range. I am targeting PS50+ to take the offer. Any Londoner has thought about this range?

That's similar to a 2nd/3rd year analyst base pay, so not bad at all. You should be able to live comfortably in central London with flatmates. If you want to live on your own you'll have to look at zone 3 or further, or perhaps a tiny studio in some of the not so nice areas in zone 2.

I'd take the job. ABS is an interesting business, and you might be able to exit into a securitised product structuring or sales position at an investment bank, if that's what you want. Usually it's done the other way around though.

 

I have never worked in S&T but know someone who has and got fucked hard with an undeserved layoff. Don't act like you have to be loyal to them, when someone above you would happily cut you before bonus time just to increase the size of theirs. Also, it'll be much easier to find a job while you are working than try to find one if you've been laid off. Not saying you will, but start exploring your options now.

Also,

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/why-youre-so-easy-to-replace

 

5 months is a lot of free time unless you decide to go on a backpack tour across the world or something. You'll also have a lot of free time during school (especially if you do consulting/banking and have everything squared away by January of first year). Breaks are stretched out (look at any school calendar) and you are not in class 8-6 everyday 5 days a week.

 

Planning to leave around Memorial Day weekend. Still working out an exact end date with my project team/client. I have to move out of my apartment at the end of May, so will go on a Europe trip, hang out at the beach, and start on some networking over the summer. Will move up north August 1, a couple weeks before Orientation events start.

Don't think five months is any sort of issue other than for your own mental/financial sake. Certainly don't blame you though - I'm already out the door mentally, and have four months to go.

 

Five months is a lot. I took about 100 days. Two months were spent traveling internationally and the rest was getting to know my new city/classmates and a few domestic trips. I definitely started to get a little stir crazy by the end of it, so three months was pretty perfect for me.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

was going to take 2-3 months off before truly letting the price tag sink in...pretty tough to leave $ on the table. am now thinking of taking closer to a month, maybe 6 weeks off.

as noted, there are a lot of breaks throughout the two years, and chances are the FT gig will not start immediately after graduation. i also am not a big fan of the $150k is nothing in the long run argument and prefer instead to minimize my debt obligation coming out of school.

 

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