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I was seriously into Krav Maga for 2 years doing private sessions twice a week before an unrelated injury took me out of it for 18 months.
I enjoyed the real world application that Krav offered in comparison to the more traditional martial arts. I mixed in some kicks from Taekwondo, some fluidity from Wing Chun and mindset of jeet Kune doe that you can pull from all the arts.
I experimented briefly with Systema and found the looseness refreshing.
At this point I'm looking to get back into it within the next 6 months to some extent.
Muay Thai
Krav Maga: Kick em in the nuts and run away Capoera: Breakdance Fighting Boxing: No Grappling and crazy wide stance Muay Thai: Extremely effective striking BJJ: Extremely Effective on the ground Judo: Extremely effective grappling & clinch TKD: Just what you want to do in a street fight, send a kick from 180 degrees Kung Fu: Great, against untrained opponent
If you want to do something that is 100% applicable in real life, do Muay Thai, you learn the hands of boxing(admit not as good for different reasons), elbows and knees which are perhaps the most deadly aspect of the art, and kicks which can give you a distance advantage. Not to mention the clinch or stand up wresting that most Thais are just complete masters of. Now I'm biased I train Muay Thai but it is a lot of fun and very useful. I recently had some fun with a buddy who is a Gracie Purple Belt with stripes, we messed around but his clinch was just not good. Or rather how he had to close the distance to engage.
I admire BJJ and will train in it at some point, it is only useful on the ground(extremely effective). That said, it is really easy to end a fight if you have a basic understand of BJJ and you get the fight to the ground, there is no getting lucky as with an overhand right or haymaker like in standup. If you don't know how to roll, you will be submitted, easily. I want to stick up for BJJ again and say that many Navy SEALS train BJJ and it is a great art and you are not a complete fighter until you are at least a blue belt with some striking experience.
Judo is also pretty great again, just like the Muay Thai clinch, the hip throws from Judo are just amazing. Maybe this has less weight now but Rhonda Rousey is a gold medal olympic winner in Judo.
In summation, I'd say take MT, BJJ, Judo or lastly Boxing,
Are you sure that Muay Thai is more effective than Krav Maga?
Not busting...too hard on Krav. I think the short answer is that there are really effective techniques from Krav which you can apply in real life. Some of these are smart, like running away from an altercation or avoiding altercations all together. It also has its knife and gun disarmament techniques which I would imagine are really useful if you are in that situation. But I wouldn't really consider that practical. By a show of hands how many of us have been in at least one fist fight, and now another show of hands how many of us have been in a gun and knife fight? I would wager the invisible hands all were raised for the first one(grade school counts) and how probably zero were raised for the second.
At the end of the day the best martial is parts of each. E.g. I'm not throwing a high kick in a street fight no matter how much I train my roundhouse. But I am going to try and work my way in With knees and elbows and try and get you to the ground via a vie the clinch.
(Edit) - I think palm strikes, especially to the face are more practical than an closed fist strike. Too much risk of breaking the small bones in your hand. I mean even Mike Tyson would break his hands in street fights.
Yes, Krav you do not go live like you do in Muay Thai. Krav falls more under the self defense umbrella. IMO BJJ & Mauy Thai are the most practical and effective Martial Arts to study.
I'm trained in boxing, muay thai, BJJ, and wrestling (and I took 1 Krav Maga class!).
If you want to be an effective street fighter, it's boxing & submission wrestling all day. You're most likely not going to be throwing knees or kicks in a real street fight, as chances are good your clothing is going to be too restrictive.. And you do NOT want to be rolling around on the ground a la BJJ.
You wouldn't even "throw" a low leg teep to the inside of thigh?
Knees and elbows are essential knowledge for street fighting. I haven't ever thrown a kick in one and probably never will - not that I make a habit of getting into street fights - but knees and elbows are great complements to the clinching and grappling that are par for the course in an altercation.
I think traditional Gracie school BJJ would not be a good idea as you mentioned. However, the BJJ techniques used in MMA I think are more applicable in a street fight setting. The teachings of guys like Eddie Bravo (IE.: BJJ adapted to MMA) can be really useful in a street fight especially given that you see ground and pound situations so often. Many of the chokes and subs used in mma may not be super realistic but the BJJ defensive tactics are esp effective in a mma setting There's a video of Eddie Bravo chatting and demonstrating with Hickson Gracie on the Joe Rogan Exp on youtube...if you can find it youll see the point im making for bjj
I second this. I am a black belt in Judo and I have been doing BJJ for the past 1,5 years and grappling in general really is excellent.
What I like about them is both the sport aspect - you don't have to hurt you and your opponent to win - and the martial part. Even though they have limitations in terms of pure street fight (more so Judo), they are as effective as possible. You only have to watch Royce Gracie in the first UFCs to see it!
Pretty much agree. Someone skilled in any of those would still whoop the majority people's ass. Personally am a boxing fan and I think it would be awesome to bob & weave and absolutely destroy someone with counters and overhand rights who is much taller than me. Probably wouldn't work against someone who knows how to kick but street fights are typically very fast because someone is usually hit by a shot they don't see coming and a lot of people don't tuck in their chin. Need to put on about 20 more pounds of muscle but it would awesome to have reflexes that were any semblance of mike below. I work on my bobbing & weaving and slipping everyday.
So dodging out of those meetings, by bobbing and weaving, does have some carry over to the real world after all...
What are your thoughts on Systema?
*Ronda Rousey. **She won a bronze in the Olympics, not gold. ***All serve there own purpose. More importantly are the personal characteristics it gives ie discipline, focus & respect. ****Wrestling best foundation for MMA *****Krav Maga for survival.
Disagree with many of your points.
Yours sincerely, El rey
Ambidextrous shooting and a spare wallet.
Well when a G25 goes for 3.5K plus taxes and licensing fees, the spare wallet and some krav maga seem to be more reasonable
Ah, I take you guys are what they call quick draw artists.
You know a gun unless already drawn is not effective in close quarters combat right?
what g25 are you talking about? you can buy a decent 380 (lcp, s&w) for under $300, but i'm guessing you are in a highly restricted country/area...in that case i'd look for a 'belt buckle' or something.
MMA > Muay Thai/ Lethwei > BJJ
Did 10 years of martial arts > tried everything: - Taekwondo (World Taekwondo Federation): 3rd degree red belt - Karate (Shotokan) - Kickboxing (American) - Kung Fu (Sanda/ Sanshou: Chinese Kickboxing) - BJJ - MMA - Krava Maga - Lethwei (Bareknuckle Burmese Kickboxing)
Has anyone tried Nhat Nam (Vietnamese)?
Martial arts I've trained in:
Chinese kung fu (9 years) - Experiences can vary heavily based on your teacher and the style. Unless you're training sanshou or sanda, a lot of it comes down to what are essentially choreographed routines ("forms") that look nice, but are many generations divorced from practical application. Many cases of learning from a guy who learned from a guy who learned from a guy who actually fought someone. The weapons stuff was fun and I even got to learn how to wield a wooden bench. However, it all felt a bit abstract and choreographed.
Boxing (11 years) - My preferred martial art and the one I've put the most time and effort into. I like the rule set and the camaraderie I've found in boxing gyms and rings I've worked in around the world. I appreciate the limitations of the art, but chances I'll ever get into a physical altercation outside the ring are effectively zero.
Grappling (5 years Japanese JJ as a kid, 2 years BJJ as an adult) - Great, practical, constantly sparring and seeing what really works. However, I was training several martial arts at this time and felt I would have to give BJJ everything to get a decent return. Grappling was like chess - the guy moves this way, I react this way, he reacts that way, I react another way then BAM! he unleashes the technique he had planned from move one. Also hard to justify to my wife why I was spending so much time rolling around a mat all sweaty with other men.
Muay Thai (a few years on and off) - I'd do small group MT classes (technique, bag work, sparring) for all-round fitness and as an adjunct to MMA work. Good stuff but OW MY FUCKING SHIN! whenever a more experienced person would aggressively block my kicks in sparring, even with pads. I'd then hobble off in shame.
MMA (3 years) - Mainly a mix up of BJJ and Muay Thai. Fun, but sparring often ended up writhing around with sweaty men (see Grappling above).
In terms of the progression through different arts: - Japanese jiu jitsu as a kid - Started Chinese kung fu in my late 20s - Picked up boxing as an adjunct to kung fu in my early 30s, as I thought I needed to learn to actually hit/be hit rather than just dancing around - Dropped kung fu after a few years of boxing, focused on boxing and picked up grappling/MT/MMA as adjuncts - Since relocating from Asia to NY, boxing only
I just started Krav Maga. A few months in I enjoy it a lot more than the karate I have taken in the past. We'll see how it is once I reach higher levels but for a beginner I feel I'm learning practical skills and getting a good workout.
Yes we learn knife and gun disarms but I think I'll just donate my wallet if anyone pulls a proper weapon on me.
I have been wrestling for 16 years now, currently wrestle Division 1 in college. I have also helped out coach at an MMA gym and learned a little boxing
Also Wrestled D1. Have "rolled" (I hate that phrase) with dudes who had all kinds of belts and are "Gracie Trained".... I'll take a wrestler any day of the week. p.s. How you do like wrestling for Zeke?
Also, there's a reason everyone likes BJJ... it's easy. You get to lay around on the ground and not worry about getting your head beat in.
I would totally agree, wrestling is by far the hardest martial art, if not the hardest sport there is to train at an elite level. I love getting to wrestle for Zeke, it is the opportunity of a lifetime. There is always Olympians and senior level guys coming to train with us. Where did you wrestle at?
This is both true and false. Wrestling is for sure much more athletically difficult than BJJ. MUCH more... But let's be honest, wrestling without submissions is kinda lame.
A CHL is pretty handy for self defense
Anyone have any suggestions on good gyms in NYC? I'm looking to get into either Muay Thai or BJJ when I begin work this summer
Way back before I moved to here, I did 6 weeks work in NYC and would visit Five Points Academy (www.academyfivepoints.com).
I was going for MT and boxing, but they do BJJ and judo as well and the place had a good vibe. Decent weights set up as well.
I second this, I currently go there. Every year we fly in a Thai coach, this year we have Arjan Jud, again, who was Buakaw Banchemek's trainer for a while. Great community, good classes.
In all fairness to other gyms there are a few good ones. Another of note is The Wat, run by Kru Phil Nurse. You can always catch an MMA fighter there, whether GSP or others. Actually, I saw on FB that Saenchai was there having fun sparing with Kru Phil today.
The other one I recommend is Coban's in midtown. I was a member when I lived in the area. He has the most experience having won Lumpinee Stadium numerous times, he is a living muay thai legend. Unfortunately his biggest and most famous loss was to Ramon Dekkers which cemented Dutch Muay Thai style and legitimacy. Regardless, youtube the fight, both men were beasts.
tried this before: pretty good. http://www.renzogracie.com/
Taichi. Want to learn Bagua and Wing chun.
Learning Bagua will just have you going around in circles
Yessir, as is with all of life, we simply spin around in circles. Why not just go with the flow? Hahaha.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/mosX7L25HV8
My brother will send me a quote from this video about once a year with no warning, and it leaves me in stitches every time.
True story: I was about eight months in to my first consulting gig, and a manager and a partner and I were on a call with a client going over a deck. I don't remember the specifics, but we'd used a fairly crude model to come up with a relatively obvious answer. The client's feedback was that they got the point, but why hadn't we used a more detailed (and time-consuming and expensive) analysis? My manager gave a very professional "just because its basic doesn't mean it's not effective" type of answer, to which the partner added, "as they say in street fights, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE KICK TO THE GROIN."
Bas Rutten is the best.
shortstack I've actually trained and partied with Bas.
No one on Earth can party as hard as Bas can. No one.
@dmw86" would have loved to have been there for that. I've gotta work up to merging his quotes in with my clients..
"Why didn't you use more in-depth analysis? "Who the FOOK is this guy?"
I did Tae Kwon Do as a kid and tbh found it to be 99% useless. It taught me some stuff, mostly that TKD was bs and pretty useless in a street fight, especially if you're the smaller guy. Now that I'm older and have a lot more experience here's my take based on experience:
BJJ: Trained for years under some of the best competitors in the world. It's 100% useful it's the one martial art that I've done that I feel will actually contribute to neutralizing a substantial size disadvantage.
Muay thai: Also trained for years under some high level competitors. Learning to really use knees and elbows properly is a huge advantage in a fight and will give you a distinct advantage. Also you'll learn to throw a proper punch, footwork, and defense. All that being said, kicks are pretty useless. If you haven't properly stretched and warmed up you're more likely to pull a muscle and end up immobilized than really connecting and winning. Plus I'm assuming you've probably been drinking if you're getting in a street fight, also not the best time to rely on your ability to balance.
Wrestling: Limited experience from my MMA days, but I find it very useful. I can dictate where the fight takes place; i.e., standing or on the ground.
MMA: Good practice to mix everything together, but the way MMA is taught is within the constraints of the sport which are not realistic to street fighting.
All things considered every street fight is different; are you on concrete, sand, fighting 1, 2 3...etc. So depending on circumstance one martial art may be better suited. If I were only able to recommend one for everyone it would be BJJ.
Martial Arts aren't intended to be used in a "Street Fight" where there are no rules. It's like complaining that a Ferrari is useless in city traffic.
Who was complaining? I made a statement of opinion about the utility of different disciplines based on scenarios. The primary reason people usually learn a martial art is self-defense. There are a number of martial arts that are intended to be used in a street fight. And there is a plethora of evidence contrary to your position.
Also, your analogy is terrible. A Ferrari is useless in city traffic, and it's shit at handling off-road courses too. If you buy Ferrari for those purposes you're a moron. If you learn a martial art for self-defense that emphasizes the use of a sword, but you're not going to have a sword 99.99% of the time you're also a moron. You choose the one that provides the most utility and best fits your circumstance.
Grew up in a SANDA (chinese boxe) gym. Got some light matches then started going around K-1, Sanda, and Thai championships. Moved in an other city after high school, tried to go to the best SANDA gym in town and found a bunch of rich pussy kids. Left after a month, and started MMA. Competed in a regional thay league, won silver. Moved to US for grad school straight out undergrad, found amazing Thai gym in Boston. 3 months after, I tore my ACL in a soccer match against MIT. Got surgery in September and still scared of getting back to train.
bangbangsytgang
Just saying. Instead of just arguing which martial art is the best, may I propose something:
Next Steps: 1) Set up "WSO Fight For Charity World Tournament" - international level competition. 2) Every continent needs to send a representative ("Continent Rep - CP") to be there (just like Hunger Game - lol). 3) All the contestants who signed up will have 4 months to train and fight (by weight class). 4) Country then Continent, then World Level. 5) For all the fights will be sponsored and net of cost will be donated to a charity.
Net Benefits: 1) Spreading of WSO Brand name and getting local sponsorship. 2) Establishment of city/country based WSO Chapter. 3) Bonding among WSO Chapter members. 4) Training to improve your fitness level. 5) Sort out which is the most bad ass by going MMA rule based fights (instead of internet kung fu). 6) All money go to charity.
I volunteer to fight in Asia Continent division. Weight: 80kg division Height: 180cm (5 feet 10 inches) Background: BJJ, Taekwondo, MMA
Lmao I'm definitely down for this
USA 100kg 6'0" 72in reach peakaboo boxing
I'm in.
Wait, you mean something like the "Kumite Championship" in Bloodsport?
Let's do this.
WSO fight night in NYC -- let's make this happen
Weight: 145lbs Height: 5ft 11 Background: Muay Thai, Karate
Been blessed with a long reach. Doing the Dieselnoi thing... aiming to cut down to 135.
Thug jitsu
This is personally my favorite. Everyone wears their chains into the class and its a real street style roll. Neck chokes with chains are more realistic so why not practice on the mats? Seems ok.
very interesting thread, i've wanted to get into martial arts in place of sports (basketball, soccer goalie, baseball catcher) that keep giving me nagging injuries
bjj interests me the most since I did wrestling before. looking for something to give me a great cardio workout, low level of injury risk, and feed that competitive drive
what would guys recommend?
Small sample size here, but any of the striking ones where you spar are all high risk of injury. I bruised a rib(from a knee) and was out for a month just this past December. I had a buddy pop a shoulder 6 months in to BJJ. Most martial arts are all pretty high risk compared to basketball, soccer and baseball.
But I hope that doesn't stop you from trying any of the above mentioned "arts", as I have gotten so much out of them. Anecdotally, people "roll" in BJJ into their 60s+ and while I think you stop sparring in striking arts early 40s.
thanks for the feedback!
Anthony Bourdain big inspiration for BJJ and proving you can still do it into your 60's :-)
golf fam
Recommendation on Martial Arts Classes in NYC (Originally Posted: 03/18/2016)
Hi WSO,
I moved to NYC recently and am looking for recommendations on martial arts classes in the city. I've heard that doing Muy Thai or Taekwondo is a great way to get in shape and improve conditioning. I am open to any martial art style but am focused on getting in shape and building strength. I work in management consulting around 60 hours/week (limited travel) so am also looking for something with a flexible schedule.
Does anybody know of a good gym/program in the city? Any particular martial art style (e.g., karate, wushu, etc.)? Thanks.
delete
Muay Thai would probably be your best bet for a martial arts discipline that is widely available, will get you into shape, and would be fairly practical if you ever need to defend yourself. Boxing would also be something to look into.
Have you done Muay Thai? Which gym did you go to?
I recommend boxing or taekwondo because of the sporting aspects. You do sparring with your opponents and enter competition once you level up.
krav maga - that way if someone tries to rob you, you might be able to defend yourself; all the other martial arts are more art than martial.
Yeah Muay Thai is the great art of breaking an orbital with your elbow.
Thanks guys for the recommendations. Any recommendations regarding a gym?
Mendez Boxing for boxing if 26th is convenient. Nearest subway is the N, Q, R on 28th.
Martial Arts in NYC? (Originally Posted: 05/15/2014)
Curious if any monkeys out there who do martial arts in NYC have suggestions for places to go to.
Total beginner but looking to get into some type of martial arts. Something at a reasonable price and preferably near Union square or Midtown. Thanks!
Boxing at Kingsway on 28th.
does krav maga count? it's gotten pretty popular in the city lately
is that affordable? whats the monthly membership with equinox anyway? did you think it was worth it?
The Wat or five point for muay Thai, solid gyms
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