Rejected everywhere...

So I've been rejected from virtually every single bank for IBD summer analyst positions (I'm a Junior). I have a 3.53 GPA at a Ivy target. I've spent the past three months doing everything I can to secure interviews, including networking with alumni, reaching out to recruiters, etc. but it looks like a BB won't be in my cards this summer.

Where do I go from here? I know the next steps are generally boutique MM firms, but should I just start cold calling or is there a more formal application process? Is there a list of IB firms based in NY anywhere?

Any idea why I fared so poorly?

 

So you only tell us your GPA and an idea of where you go to school, and you expect us to have an idea of why you didn't get a BB SA offer?

Did you get interviews? What's your previous experience? What's your major?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 

most banks take 12-24 people for first round interviews at BBs and then go on from there. So, while your stats aren't bad, there are 12-24 people who also applied to those same positions who look better on paper, for one reason or another. Go on, apply other banks, try to use on campus recruiting or your school's recruiting system to the max.

 

Yea we need to know at what stages did you get rejected? The answer to that question will tell you what you need to work on. I would be willing to AIM chat with you and give you some interview questions and see how you answer them to see if there are any glaring mistakes in the content you are giving out.

The process now is a hustle. Anyone who has anything to do with finance you need to be contacting. Send out tons of CV's to random firms. Google is all you need for this.

 

I didn't even get first round interviews, which was surprising for a couple firms since I was invited to one-day programs of a handful of students (15-30) that there was an application for.

I am a business major and last summer I worked at a ops/technology consulting firm that focuses on the capital markets.

I'm working on getting my resume on Razume but am running into errors. I've had it checked by career services and various people at GS, MS, CS, and other BB and everyone has said thats it is fine.

 

Here are a few possibilities: 1. your school isn't a top target, which would limit the number of first round interview given 2. Your resume doesn't reflect any finance background: no prior internships, no finance clubs, no personal portfolio. You should provide us with more deets on this 3. There is a problem with your application or your file in the school's recruiting system but this is unlikely. 4. Your year just happened to have a crap ton of really great candidates with high GPAs, prior experience and a lot of networking. 5. Your resume's format or other factors about you on paper are getting you dinged. (are your interests really bland like risk arbitrage, chess, portfolio management and technical analysis? Do you have some glaring typos) Try to get your resume up on razume.

Keep on going and apply to every position related to what you want to do out there. Network even more aggressively and try to find out what about your resume is lacking and work on these points.

 

Let people check out your resume to give more detailed advice. Start reaching out to alumni at MM and boutiques and try to get something there. Its already late so BBs are not really an option anymore but I think if you do go to an ivy and have your gpa you should be able to network yourself into a boutique somewhere. Im sure you made some good contacts during recruitment so dig a bit around and get a better idea of why you did not get anywhere.

"too good to be true" See my WSO Blog
 
  1. Not trying to be offensive or anything, but many firms don't consider Cornell much of a target, so interview slots may be limited
  2. Your major and work experience isn't DIRECTLY applicable to IBD like econ or finance majors with more direct finance experience.
  3. You are not involved in too many activities that are directly related to finance/banking.

With that said, I've seen a lot of random people with much weaker resumes than yours get interviews but it may be the level of networking that they did. So, I would think that some kind of combination of these factors are getting you dinged, which is too bad since it doesn't even give you a chance for these BBs to meet you.

Good news is, your resume is pretty solid and you'll do great with other firms and boutiques. Use your network and keep on going!

 

The person scanning your resume wants to feel like he might actually enjoy being around you for 12-16 hours a day, too. I obviously don't know anything about you, but your resume seems very bland and you don't have any interests listed. Many of the most common questions are about un-related passions/hobbies and "fit" is typically the deciding factor overall.

The formatting is great, but I don't feel like I have any idea of who you actually are, and that would probably cause me to look elsewhere.

 

Thanks for sharing your story with us, highly appreciated. I have one question and would love to get a feedback/advice from you; when and how do you follow up with your new contact at your target company? I met a lot of new people and I am not sure if I should follow up with them on a regular basis and what to say if I decided to do so. thanks again and congrats on your new job

 

Thanks. It depends on the person to be honest. Some people I connected with right away and they went out of their way to help me so I'd approach them more often. Others, I only approached when I had real updates like a successful GMAT or getting accepted to grad school.

In summation, friendlier contacts - once every 3 to 5 weeks and other contacts - once every 2-3 months or whenever something big happens.

I'll expand more on this in my next post as well.

 

Thanks bluesbreaker13. I appreciate it. Sure, I'd be happy to expand on it. The number one thing with working smart is learning to prioritize and organize yourself. I made a commitment to myself that I'd reach out to 2-3 people every day for informational interviews and try to make 2-3 new connections each week (if not more). I also made sure to stay on top of my school work as much as I could and eliminate all the small, busy work assignments early on. This freed up more time for me on the weekends to comb through LinkedIn and the WSO Company Database and find people to email and set up those emails.

I also synced my google calendar to my phone and tablet, got the corresponding LinkedIn apps, reached out to people I had worked with or knew me well for recs on LinkedIn, and then most importantly, streamlined and organized my networking excel spreadsheet early on. By taking copious notes on people when I spoke to them, it made following up easier and smoother.

Feel free to ask any other questions. Happy to help. And check out my other post on networking for more detailed help and strategies.

 

This sounds like a very interesting case. You sound like you demonstrated enough smarts but maybe they really were looking for some more traditional management/leadership experience? Also do people in EMOs generally have MBAs, if so from which schools and at what age did they attain them?

I'm wondering if the schools you applied to just didn't think an MBA would actually help you pursue your goals. It would also be helpful to describe what an EMO actually does as its not a term I've heard of before.

 

well....what schools did you apply for? also what were your undergrad schools? why ask for advice and then be so secretive???

Although you profile is unique and interesting...there's nothing really that stands out! If there was a red flag, it's the freelance work. Can't you put independent consultant? It will have a better connotation than freelancer. Consultant sounds like youre in charge of your career, where as freelancer is a bit more "ill take what I can get"...just my opinion...feel free to disagree because I don't give a f#$%

The fact that you have a non-traditional background wont exclude you for any schools. You just have to make sure that you were actually good at what you did and that the school you apply to will help you to reach where you wanna go.

also, which consultant did you use? can you give us names so no one else goes to them? kthanksbai

Assman!

 

This may come off harshly, but I think you need some candor.

The problem I see is that nothing in what you've written indicates that you have what it takes to be successful in a business setting: drive, leadership, and a focus on the bottom line. You're an academic that now wants to be in business - it doesn't make sense to me. Simply writing that you want to get into business is not enough.

If you had started a business, or gotten into the business side of things, that would be different. As of now, you have done NOTHING to prove that you're interested in business. You've been out of school for 8 years, which is on the older side, and have only taught some non-business classes and done uninteresting library stuff.

Here's a key question: Have you tried to go get a job in the business world (like at an EMO)?

If not, you strike me as a wannabe (or a wantrepreneur as Mark Cuban would say) and not truly committed to business, valuing the "safety" of being in college and collecting degrees. The real problem is that if you haven't had the drive to get off your ass and get into business already, you're likely not the type of person they want. You come of as an academic, whom they do NOT want. The MBA is a professional degree.

You should go get a real job, then apply. You have to PROVE that you're the guy for the job, which you've failed to do through your actions. The problem is that by the time you get some real experience, you will likely be too old and have to look at EMBA, which could be a good thing for you.

Stop being scared and put yourself on the line, not just on paper but in real life.

@"trinko"

 
OpsDude:

Maybe you're a poor interviewer.

The more I talk to people about my application, the more I think this was it. If my denies were due to weak essays, lack of direction on my resume, unclear goals, etc., why would I have received interview invites?

The problem is that I thought the interviews went well, even though I have no idea what an MBA interview is supposed to be. Some of my answers might have seemed cliche, but I presented myself well, gave concrete examples most of the time, and described a clear trajectory with the "walk me through your resume" question. No stammering or gaffes.

So how would I find out if it was the interviews that killed me?

 

Bro...I would apply for R2 and get a new consultant! Also, have a long think about why you want an MBA and if the lower ranked schools will do the job or not. MBAs aren't cheap so you don't want to make the wrong decision.

Also, how is Tepper not in the top 15 in USA? It has a more solid and innovative course than half of the top 15!!

 
Assman:

Bro...I would apply for R2 and get a new consultant! Also, have a long think about why you want an MBA and if the lower ranked schools will do the job or not. MBAs aren't cheap so you don't want to make the wrong decision.

Also, how is Tepper not in the top 15 in USA? It has a more solid and innovative course than half of the top 15!!

I can't find a consultant willing to take on new work for R2 with deadlines only ten days away. I'll honestly be lucky if I can get my recommenders to agree to it.

 

I think stating strategy consulting as a short-term goal with education work as a long-term goal would have made your life easier. Don't forget that the admissions committee wants to make sure that you can reasonably obtain the job you want based on your experience and their recruiting patterns. Perhaps they just didn't believe you could obtain your short-term goals from their schools.

 
kingfalcon:

I think stating strategy consulting as a short-term goal with education work as a long-term goal would have made your life easier. Don't forget that the admissions committee wants to make sure that you can reasonably obtain the job you want based on your experience and their recruiting patterns. Perhaps they just didn't believe you could obtain your short-term goals from their schools.

What do you think of this? Would it work?

Short-term: strategy consulting - join the education branch of a consulting company like Deloitte or Parthenon Group to advise universities and k-12 schools in technology implementation.

Long-term: start a boutique consulting firm in EdTech.

Is this too flashy or risky?

 

not trying to be an ass but u've only called 10 and u're thinking of giving up?

honestly try at least 30. if you're talking about boutiques, i'm sure there are more than 10 out there

 

If you take it from me, move your ass to New York for two months and every day you move your ass closer to your goal.

Take modeling classes at some semi-educational school that will connect you to more professionals.

The most important thing you need to remember is to NEVER deviate from your goal and make sure you bring your networking A-Game.

or.... become ceo of ge.

.
 

1) Relax 2) Buy GM stock 3) ???? 4) Profit!

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

I can't even become CEO of Vandelay Industries, much less CEO of GE. I only have done 10 because there are only 10 in my city. Keep in mind, I'm not in NYC, Chicago, LA, San Fran, Houston, and I bet my city has even less banks than places like Seattle and Denver (no I'm not going to disclose what city I'm in). Applying to boutiques in NYC, etc would be even harder because no one will know my school and there will be tons of ivy league freshman/sophies applying to those places who are probably better than me, and living there will be a challenge.

I'm actually pretty OK with corporate finance/development at a F500 as my end goal is to become a corporate exec, but I'm not sure if I'm competitive for those places either...

And GM is a horrible stock to buy in my opinion. If I were a hedge fund, I'd short GM and buy ford

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

^you make a good point. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try some other cities/places where we don't know people, but I think part of my problem is my resume. I've been doing the best I can, but my GPA isn't as high as I'd like it to be and I unfortunately have lost elections for leadership positions in clubs, so both my GPA and ECs are relatively weak. Any ideas to mitigate this situation a bit? I think that I can still be a good intern even though my resume is a bit weak, but how do I convey this because there will be lots of people with better everything from better schools that I will be competing against. I really want to do banking and I truly believe I can do well if I get my foot in the door, but there seems to be a lot of obstacles (resume, network, etc) that aren't letting me prove myself and get the break I need.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 

I read a statistic that only 2% of cold calls result in a sale, it's no surprise that after 10 boutiques no one hired you. The way to get hired is 10 a day 2 times a week, week after week. Geography shouldn't limit you. You need to call every bank in NYC, Boston, Miami, Houston, Dallas etc. Offer to work for free. It doesn't seem like you put too much effort in.

 

First, I know exactly what you are going through.

I was rejected over 3,000+ times as a 2009 graduate, non-target (received Diploma Feb. 2010 because I was smart and delayed my thesis preventing me from graduating).

I'm writing an e-Book on just this, but for now:

  1. People don't like to be cornered. Cold-calling without an email heads-up does just this. --Send a letter. A sincere letter with your resume on page 2. Follow up a week later. --I met a marketing director for Microsoft; he said they spend most of their meetings answering emails. They get a lot of emails. But mail on their desk Monday morning or Friday afternoon? Close to Nil.

  2. The Round-about way. --Many times, employers hesitate to give you a FT offer, if they know you will jump. If I remember correctly, it takes 1-1.5 years for your hiring to break even. --An internship, hire-at-will, is a low-cost opportunity for them to get to know you--and the key is this: it's much easier to get approved for an intern than a full-time.

  3. FedEx pitchbooks, letters to CEOs and Managing Partners. I hesitate to tell you this, because this is my strategy, and I am going for the megafunds and elite boutiques just as you. --It works. --CEOs have told their staff how impressed "that guy" was. Who was me.

  4. Go to conferences, CFA chapter meetings (pay the $80), alumni forums, events. --I went to the Beijing, Seoul Wharton Global Alumni Forum as a volunteer, then volunteered for the Penn Club Beijing (I don't go to Penn). --I attended the ASCEND conference held in New York every August with the CEO of KPMG, Deloitte, HLHZ's chairman. --Seek alternative job fairs such as the "Boston Career Forum" where all the investment banks visit.

  5. Go out and drink with your buddies. I was hired at a major advertising agency and now strategy for the world's largest electronics maker (guess)--because my buddy went to bat for me. He knew the directors/employees at both places and pushed and pushed.

  6. HR are people too, but for many reasons, they cannot help you. (I'm going to stop short of calling them useless). They can only hurt you by having you fail the credit check or seeing that you are not in "your junior year for this internship.

  7. What I learned at the ad agency was the process for our blue-chip clients. 1.) Survey the landscape/situation. 2.) Identify the key influencers (the senior MDs), and then use our PR on them.

These are just some general comments, but so far, I have received 4 offers at top firms for their industries, not just banking, and I have completed 2 internships as a college graduate, when HR and people have said, "It's never been done before."

Keep at it in this job hunt. It's disgusting. it's tough, and it made me depressed as fuck. I'm sorry you got rejected, but you have not done enough (not flaming you, being objective).

When you have worn a sandwich board in your respective financial district, have you tried everything.

Good luck. I'll start a thread about my e-Book after my exams.

 

Two of my boutique offers have been generated by taking a non-paid internship at PE firm and reaching out to IBs on the other side of our deals. Worked great and all started with an email to every PE firm in my area indicating my willingness to work for free (although I had a pretty solid resume going in).

The strategy has worked wonders thus far! Maybe give it a shot. V

 

How low is the gpa? how's your major gpa? Also, if you've lost all elections for e-boards, why not get a few people together and start a club? I'm sure starting your own club and building it from the ground up will trump being the exec of any existing club.

 
General Disarray:
How low is the gpa? how's your major gpa? Also, if you've lost all elections for e-boards, why not get a few people together and start a club? I'm sure starting your own club and building it from the ground up will trump being the exec of any existing club.

GPA is pretty bad. Around 3.45 or so, and I dunno what my major GPA is, but I'd assume its only marginally higher and no greater than 3.6. I'm working on creating a club, but who knows how that will turn out.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 

Thanks for the replys guys,

Yeh I am a little late to the party as I spent 2-3 years after uni "wasting time" living abroad and at home, working in bars before committing myself to a 2-year master programme.

So in your opinion what do you think the best course of action is for somebody in my situation? go on to do a PhD in economics? whilst applying to more internships over the next 3 years and then apply to an associate programme? or find a job as soon as I finish in some related field and study towards the CFA? I would feel like I would be too over qualified (and old) to begin at the analyst programme if I did these two options, but Idk.

 

Hi - same shoe here. Just finished grad school and very hard to get a job. I believe the problem is those analyst programs are targeted undergrad students, so the system automatically filters out your application.

 

Saying you don't need them to spend time training you is disingenuous and just sounds silly. Just because you've interned at shop X does not mean you know the systems of shop Y. The deal flow thing is also weird. If you are going to followup after a rejection (you have nothing to lose anyway), at least exit on a thoughtful and open-ended note that allows you to continue networking with the person and let's you followup in a few months.

In short, be more subtle.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I appreciate your advice. I have thought about other exits such as request for a brief coffee chat to learn more about their experience in the industry or ask for career advice. And they would normally ignore me as well. Do you think I should follow up after that or do you have any other suggestions in terms of "thoughtful and open-ended" note?

Thanks.

 

If you aren't getting responses after your rejection followup, I would say don't beat a dead horse. Not getting a response to a solicitation email for finance can be equated to not getting texted back by a girl you've been chasing -- it's a nice way to let you down "softly" while not wasting time.

You also don't want to piss any bankers off, don't be that annoying guy who emails every week even though you have no relationships there. Asking for a coffee chat is great after a rejection, and if they respond, even better! Followup in a few weeks to schedule a time. Just don't shoot off endless emails into a void when the clear message is not interested.

 

If they reject you, be polite and thank them for their time. If you politely ask if you can connect anyway if they have time over the next few weeks and if they don't respond, then move on. There are tons of banks out there. You'll find one who won't mind taking you on sooner or later. Have you offered to work unpaid? It's not ideal, but if you mention it up front more people may bite. Also, do NOT send follow up emails stating you don't need to be trained (this is untrue, you're an intern. that's why you're there) and any other potential objection to why they rejected you- it looks desperate and makes you look socially awkward.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
 

great I was actually having a similar question. I tried to mention unpaid internships in the first one or two emails. But later my friends told me don't do that because that will make me look desperate and I should try to counter objections. So I guess what I wanted to ask is that: will mention my willingness to work for free make me look desperate and if it doesn't, should I mention it straight in my first email or in follow ups after being rejected?

Recent College Graduate
 

Just to be frank: your replies to them turning you down are incredibly rude and downright annoying. If they tell you that they have no positions, why would you argue with them or, worse, tell them that you don't need them?

If you get turned down, that's it. You will not persuade anyone. Move on and focus on other companies. My biggest advice to you, however, is to learn to take hints. Arguing with bankers after getting turned down, pestering them with phone calls, etc. are all VERY big no-nos.

 

I was in a similar position to you last year. Don't give up and if you don't mind working at regional boutiques then it's definitely not too late. I was still speaking with firms and getting offers (mostly unpaid but also 1-2 paid ones) even in May.

 

Repeating some of what others have said but: 1.) Thank them for their time 2.) Ask for their advice as to how to position yourself/what steps you can do to better position yourself for next year (with them or one of their competitors). 3.) Don’t be obnoxious. If you can do #2 tactfully, it will be a huge advantage. Some will ignore you but if you leave a good impression (i.e. by not trying to counter them and by being open to feedback), some may help you down the road.

I am 10+ years out of undergrad but I’ve been rejected, kept in touch and been called back months later for a different role. Don’t be a douche.

No offense to you or some of the younger users on this site but it’s not too difficult. Approach it like dating: If the woman isn’t into you, trying to convince her to go home with you by countering that you can just make out or whatever is just going to annoy her further. If she likes you (you're polite, friendly, funny, etc.) but just isn’t attracted to you or she has a boyfriend or whatever, she may set you up with her friends or at least tell you what you can do better. That’s a horrible analogy but the only one I can think of for someone without solid work experience (no fault of yours, just owing to the fact that you’re still in school).

Be polite, ask for (and be open to) feedback, learn from mistakes and move on. Stay professional….you may want to work for the guy that rejected you yesterday in 5 years. Your career is going to be long and I can guarantee you're going to run into some of the same people.

 

@ronaldmcdonald @jrr253 @datphukinnewb Thank you guys! I am actually a girl so I don't have any fraternity brothers to reach out to, but I greatly appreciate all your advice! I was interviewing for a SA for a BB firm back in Feb (I made it to the super day but obviously I failed..) so I started out pretty late in the process targeting boutiques now, I will definitely keep emailing places and reaching out to alumni and will keep you guys posted (or asking questions!)

Thanks again :)

 

Get an internship while you are still a junior/senior. I had to take medical leave for a year and a half and I just finally came back to finish .. graduated in december ... and they won't even consider my apps because I graduated.

 

[quote=rpc]Applying online without networking with anyone/having OCR into an interview has a xocr/campus career fair, how exactly does it give you an advantage over those who simply submit applications through the firm website? it seemed like they were getting hundreds of resumes, and though they do encourage most people to apply, everyones resumes end up in a huge pile in the back..

 

go MM and boutiques. 8 is just too few. I think I've hit up about 200 places (directly and indirectly) and haven't had anything. Don't feel so bad about 8 (even if you have better creds than I do).

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
 

Your resume looks pretty good, there must be something wrong about you. Do you have a low GPA? You gotta be good... Is there any weird stuff out in the internet about you? Try and google your name! What's definitely wrong about you is that you sent out 67 applications. That's way too much, try a max. of 8 and keep the cover letter personal.

 
Il Cavaliere:
Your resume looks pretty good, there must be something wrong about you. Do you have a low GPA? You gotta be good... Is there any weird stuff out in the internet about you? Try and google your name! What's definitely wrong about you is that you sent out 67 applications. That's way too much, try a max. of 8 and keep the cover letter personal.

I haven't even gotten a chance to interview from banks, so they haven't even gotten to see me in real life! Nah, I googled my name and there are just some awards/scholarships/sporting events that I participated in. My FB page is pretty tight tho.

My GPA is not fantastic. I am slightly above a first class honours, which I presume would be a >3.70/4.00. I didn't do too well for my msc in my last semester because I already gotten an admit from Cambridge. It was something like 3.75 in the first two sems, and a 3.48

Actually if you think about it 67 applications is not a lot, considering you can apply for 2 positions (Sales/ER) in the same bank in Country 1 and Country 2 = 4 applications! Well thats how I count it anyway..

 
SoAmbitious:
Nice M&I resume.

Did you apply for summer internships? Graduate programmes? More importantly: when?

Yes, most of these applications are graduate programmes. Some banks don't allow you to apply for more than 1 programme, and most summer internships they say, are left for final year students only and those graduating should apply for grad programmes. I applied very early on. Back in October/November 2011. The thing is that I have not gotten outright rejections, but they keep sending me these emails saying that there are still reviewing my app, dangling that carrot in front of me.

 
karypto:
Would you ever consider working at a VC or PE shop? I ask because of your entrepreneurial drive.

I would love to, but I havent tried. Because I have heard that most VC/PE shops require you to either have been a successful entrepreneur yourself (to join as a partner), or to have had some consulting/ibd experience. Is that the case?

I always thought the path was 'target' --> IBD --> HF/PE --> God

 
Il Cavaliere:
How long ago did you apply? It took the banks 2 weeks to get back at me!

Defintely before Christmas. Most was mid oct - nov 2010. It took the banks 2 weeks to get back with you for an interview or a rejection?

 
beta26:
Do you have UK/EU citizenship? I don't know how much that matters, but it might be a factor.

Nope I do not have UK/EU citizenship, but I have had friends who are not UK/EU citizens and have secured roles at some BBs, though they are mid/back office positions and the banks will be sponsoring their visas. And some have gotten offers from consulting firms as well despite not having UK/EU citizenship.

I have dual citizenship, and applied in those countries as well, but with not much luck either.

 

This is strange, your CV looks solid.

What really shocks me is that you didnt get more MBB interviews. I have seen kids from targets with no connections, that have done rly rly rly rly shitty summer internships, get MBB interviews en masse. I don't understand where the MBB prestige comes from, these guys interview everyone under the sun.

I have seen lots of kids with v. strong CV get rejected for interviews at banks this season tough, so that seems to be in line(atleast for S&T and IBD, cant comment on ER).

Reasons to get rejected are generally:

Lack of work permit(the UK govt are a bunch of protectionist morons), not so much an issue for banking stuff as they are above 40k pounds and thus exempt for visa regulation, but some of the consultancies might not make that hurdle Applying too late Having gross and obvious spelling/grammar mistakes in cover letter/additional questions sections

 

2 weeks for invitations. I don't think the citizen thing is a problem in London. Who cares about "successfully completed" trainings in your internship? No one! For my taste there is too much prose on your CV. But I guess your cover letter is horrible. You are not a sexual predator either, are you?

 
Il Cavaliere:
2 weeks for invitations. I don't think the citizen thing is a problem in London. Who cares about "successfully completed" trainings in your internship? No one! For my taste there is too much prose on your CV. But I guess your cover letter is horrible. You are not a sexual predator either, are you?

Lol no i ain't one. I used the M&I cover letter template. I guess the prose comes from many formal years of education trying to meet the 3,000 word essay limits. And yes, I only have a 1 page CV, razume for some reason f'd up the formatting to 2 pages.

 

Have you studied in Imperial before? It looks so similar to our career dept's sample format. Well I'm in the same situation, looks a little worse than yours, but only managed a broker AC, a boutique ibd first round, some phones and nothing else.... depressing

 

Perhaps you were just too late. Interviews for FT spots started in September so you would have disadvantaged yourself by not even applying till November. This, coupled with the fact that many banks revised their FT hiring needs downwards means you would not have had much of a chance by applying so late. As an example, I know one firm originally planned to take ~20 candidates from FT recruiting for S&T (in addition to the 20-30 summer internship conversions) but revised this downwards and only ended up taking 4 candidates outside their summer class.

Also, the fact that you sent 67 apps suggests your cover letters were rushed and not personalised to each bank. That may be ok in the US, but recruiters in the UK generally like to see ungeneric cover letters. Furthermore, I'm not sure I could even list more than 25 companies with structured grad recruiting which suggests most of your apps were speculative apps to firms who may not even recruit grads.

Edit: Just saw your comment above. So it was only like 17 apps then not 67, which makes more sense. Applying for two divisions in two countries at a bank is not necessarily four applications, as it may still require one recruiter checking you meet a minimal benchmark for an interview before passing your info on to the seperate divisions and countries.

Did you utilise the on campus presentations and/or other networking opportunities at Cambridge in the Michaelmas Term?

 
Omoba De Jonz O:
Perhaps you were just too late. Interviews for FT spots started in September so you would have disadvantaged yourself by not even applying till November. This, coupled with the fact that many banks revised their FT hiring needs downwards means you would not have had much of a chance by applying so late. As an example, I know one firm originally planned to take ~20 candidates from FT recruiting for S&T (in addition to the 20-30 summer internship conversions) but revised this downwards and only ended up taking 4 candidates outside their summer class.

Also, the fact that you sent 67 apps suggests your cover letters were rushed and not personalised to each bank. That may be ok in the US, but recruiters in the UK generally like to see ungeneric cover letters. Furthermore, I'm not sure I could even list more than 25 companies with structured grad recruiting which suggests most of your apps were speculative apps to firms who may not even recruit grads.

Edit: Just saw your comment above. So it was only like 17 apps then not 67, which makes more sense. Applying for two divisions in two countries at a bank is not necessarily four applications, as it may still require one recruiter checking you meet a minimal benchmark for an interview before passing your info on to the seperate divisions and countries.

Did you utilise the on campus presentations and/or other networking opportunities at Cambridge in the Michaelmas Term?

Actually it is a little more than 17. If you wanted firm numbers it is 17 banks and 27 consultancy firms, with a total of 44 firms. I went to the fairs and talked to a few people and that was it, because the sheer number of undergrads surrounding a recruiter was just insane. I mean literally like 10 kids surrounding this one dude and trying to squeeze their questions in.

I don't think I was late. Michaelmas presentations only started mid October, and I had all my stuff ready by then.

In some applications, they asked for a 2nd location preference. Say if I put London 1st, and another city 2nd, would that mean that if I don't get called for London they will automatically not send my app to the 2nd city?

 

This story is SOOOO common in London. Tons of classmates of mine went through the same thing you went through, heck I even went through it. Many of my classmates never wound up with anything (yes, top target). People with sick backgrounds not getting one hit out of 50 applications. BRUTAL BRUTAL BRUTAL hiring market for first-years in the UK right now.

 
rebelcross:
This story is SOOOO common in London. Tons of classmates of mine went through the same thing you went through, heck I even went through it. Many of my classmates never wound up with anything (yes, top target). People with sick backgrounds not getting one hit out of 50 applications. BRUTAL BRUTAL BRUTAL hiring market for first-years in the UK right now.

And i thought 08,09 and 10 were the horrible years... What did you do to get yourself a position then?

 

Hang in there, UK is tough for recruitment, I would know, I'm also from a top target (Oxbridge/LSE). It took me two SAs in IB (a BB and a well known boutique) and a Masters to finally land an FT IBD offer. In my case it was mostly to do with interview methodology. I would revise what you write in your cover letters, pactice numeracy and verbal skills (You may disagree but a lot of top candidates aren't interviewed because of those goddamn numerical/verbal tests) and also try to cold call IB boutiques in London. There are hundreds of those, if not a FT, try to atleast get an internship at a small boutique this summer to place yourself for next autumn's milkround.

 

Is the terrible application season unique to ER / Sales&Trading or does this also concern FT IBD positions? I just realized that we were not talking about IBD even though we were in the Bullpen... Also, what about internships, was I lucky to get 1-2 offers out of 3 applications for SA M&A? When I take a look at the stats in one post here about apps send out/ invitations/offers, these seem to be much better than portrayed here... Does this mean that they will lower their conversion rates for summer analysts in IBD?

 

When did you send out your applications? I sent out all of mine by the end of September. I know people who sent their apps out in Oct/near deadlines didn't get any interviews mostly because banks start screening applications starting mid September and interviews start around then. Since things are done on a rolling basis, it could be the reason why places like RBS hung on to your application only to reject you later.

 

Wow, this is a really unfortunate story... I am currently doing a very comparable MSc degree at Oxbridge, and the recruiting in sales and trading has been WAY worse than IBD... I applied to nearly 40 positions (my resume is worse than yours, I have lower grades and I'm not an EU citizen), got 3 first round invitations (one BB, one MM, and one equity research house) and luckily got an offer from the BB, but I don't know of anybody in my class who has snagged a S&T job without a prior internship before the programme. Keep at it, it's really tough out there, but you look like you have the qualifications.

 

Recruiting in the U.K. has been brutal this season. The over hiring they did in 2009 is backfiring for many and it's affecting our intake. Having said that, this should be incentive for you to go out and continue networking. I've found that this has helped a lot.

Unlike the US, the percentage you get in the U.K. is irrelevant. Focus on getting a distinction and you're sorted. HR is more concerned with ensuring that you pass the psychometric testing and that you have the necessary competencies. Don't focus too much on the technicals.

 

I applied to 100 places and got one hit. Luckily, I am going to get my master's...A guy from my school (non-target ) got a job at JPMC in equities trading because he was a perfect 4.0 with a major in financial engineering and minors in economics and statistics...But I believe that was the only interview he got (I know he didnt get alot)..he would crash other schools career fairs and network there...Its just tough out there.

 

Whoa, welcome to the big leagues lol... At least we know who isn't doing a masters in grammar... In my defense, you would never actually say "S&T", but you would say "EU". It's written how it would be said. Send me ur email and I'll be glad to send you all my essays before I submit them. That should keep u busy seeing as how u have nothing better to do

 

To be honest, I personally don't like sending 4 applications to 1 company. I feel like applying to S&T and ER shows a lack of focus. I would suggest really understanding what you want to do. I'm guessing this lack of focus shines through in your cover letter unfortunately, and has probably led to some dings. I agree with most the above for other contributing factors (non EU, bad timing etc...)

 

Firstly, to pump out 67 applications suggests to me that you didn't spend enough time preparing each one. Applications should be well thought out and not generic.

Secondly, why do you need two postgraduate degrees? When I read this, I thought why wasn't this kid bursting at the seams to get out of school and into the proper world?

For full-time positions, it is pretty much a definite pre-requisite to have have done the role before in an internship capacity, otherwise it's a risk to take you on.

 
Clarkey:
Firstly, to pump out 67 applications suggests to me that you didn't spend enough time preparing each one. Applications should be well thought out and not generic.

Secondly, why do you need two postgraduate degrees? When I read this, I thought why wasn't this kid bursting at the seams to get out of school and into the proper world?

For full-time positions, it is pretty much a definite pre-requisite to have have done the role before in an internship capacity, otherwise it's a risk to take you on.

Thanks for your comments. It seems that I have been misinformed that the application process was a numbers game.

I pursued my second postgraduate degree because i had gotten an offer from a 'target' and I thought it would make campus recruiting much easier and to have a target school on my CV to open doors. Also, I did my undergrad degree in 2.5 years, and both the 1st and 2nd graduate degrees are 9 months long.

Since FT recruiting is almost over, I'll start looking at internships.

 

probably a stupid question but are you English and if not did you put English (language) on your CV. Because what i'm reading is all foreign experience plus education with only basic conversational proficiency in languages 1,2 and 3 ... what about the fluent languages, surely english plus a couple right?

Unless country 1 or country 2 are the UK or USA

 
stellar:
probably a stupid question but are you English and if not did you put English (language) on your CV. Because what i'm reading is all foreign experience plus education with only basic conversational proficiency in languages 1,2 and 3 ... what about the fluent languages, surely english plus a couple right?

Unless country 1 or country 2 are the UK or USA

My first language is english, but having lived in other countries I am somewhat fluent in these other foreign languages as well. I can have a conversation with almost anyone in those languages, but I just cannot do it in a business context. For example, I wouldn;t know what a balance sheet was called in that language...

I put them down as basic conversational proficiency because I wouldn;t want a native interviewer started speaking to me about valuation models and what not in that language

 

Did any of the companies you applied to make appearances on your campus? I don't know how it works in the UK but in the US lots of times banks and companies will make presentations on campus or hold events to raise awareness of the opportunities they are presenting, and if you don't attend and introduce yourself you are at a serious disadvantage in the process.

 

Dolorem quasi quibusdam dolores dolor ratione. Totam expedita fugiat cumque aspernatur assumenda omnis. Ut est molestiae similique numquam quia suscipit vero. Omnis quaerat quia non magni quas tenetur. Iure autem quia laborum eaque quis est itaque.

Iste autem repellendus et ea sit natus. Quibusdam pariatur est enim temporibus iste debitis. Velit id omnis qui. Libero est mollitia dolorum non. Ut earum mollitia aut nihil est.

Quos placeat enim maxime debitis iste. Enim a molestiae numquam. Dignissimos est nihil cumque. Repellat corporis et nobis nisi iure recusandae. Nostrum aperiam earum mollitia aut quibusdam iure. Laborum sint aut iure cumque. Impedit id ipsam voluptatibus iure pariatur dignissimos ducimus.

 

Aut explicabo voluptatem ea. Et illum harum accusamus itaque eveniet dolorem.

Illo sed voluptas odio aut vero cumque. Unde reiciendis ex consequatur vel. Magnam sunt et excepturi eos vero ut at odio. Impedit debitis rerum aut ut.

Ipsam dolorem iusto et a facilis impedit. Reiciendis error dolores odio non fugiat et. Nesciunt repellat velit consectetur quo.

 

Perspiciatis velit est odio aut rerum et. Consequatur tenetur dolorem nihil iste ea neque. Consequatur consequuntur facere tempore deserunt laboriosam ipsam. Ab dolor et ea incidunt fugit. Ipsum modi est vel laudantium temporibus quod quis.

Commodi cumque nam voluptatibus accusamus ducimus deleniti. Cumque dolorum quis accusantium libero ut. Ut dolor nihil quia sunt sed soluta laudantium. A eos dolorem nisi molestias officiis quia qui.

Sint iusto nesciunt ipsa nihil omnis. Deleniti consectetur eum nihil neque voluptatem enim maiores velit. Expedita et velit veritatis aliquid. Repudiandae quis et impedit et. Unde saepe excepturi iusto eaque.

 

Rerum dolorem labore aut rerum laboriosam dolores voluptates unde. Et itaque placeat facilis voluptates maxime qui. Necessitatibus accusamus nihil vero velit delectus. Dolor alias sint odio autem. Quod et doloribus deleniti sunt natus.

Rerum sit inventore at voluptas voluptas asperiores. Nesciunt ab eos aspernatur architecto praesentium. Mollitia sed saepe est repellendus non officiis soluta.

Asperiores excepturi nihil consequatur. Earum blanditiis atque voluptate praesentium. Et officia explicabo doloremque sequi numquam molestiae quibusdam. Ducimus reprehenderit iusto ut pariatur magnam eos qui quas. Deleniti eligendi ut commodi sapiente consequatur animi aperiam.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (85) $262
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (65) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (198) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (143) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
5
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
98.9
6
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
7
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
10
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”