Have you guys seen this? Kinda goes beyond the bizarre. His dad (according to Deadspin) is apparently taking to message boards and saying things like he hopes people in the front office get AIDS.
I get rookie hazing but this clearly has crossed some sort of line.
Heres some context for those of you who dont know what I am talking about: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9924206/miami-dolphins-suspend-richie…
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This has been going on for a long time, it's not a recent phenomenon. Can't believe the press is just finding out about it now.
Oooh yea, didn't know about that. I was referring to the making rookies pay for shit. Though I have no doubt that wasn't the first time in NFL history someone got racial slurs or death threats thrown their way
It's an absurd story, but give me a fucking break. Jonathan Martin is 6'5 312 lbs and he is that big of a fucking pussy to let bullying get to him? Fucking christ, I will switch spots with this pussy and collect his 400k pay check since he is too much of a fucking bitch to stand up for himself.
BTW, rookie hazing makes no sense because this guy is in his second year.
Some of the texts and stuff sounds like they go well beyond what you would reasonably expect. Can't believe he didnt just snap and seriously injure Incognito.
What size difference are you talking about? Incognito and Martin are very similar sizes.
Like this is fucking crazy.
From Adam Shefter: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...
More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....
Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).
Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."
Martin should just give the guy the beating he deserves. That being said, Incognito seems like he is insane. He basically tweeted to Adam Schefter and told him "enough is enough" and "if anyone else has something to say, they know where to find him #BRINGIT"
I will venture out and say the media is going to crucify this guy and no other team is going to touch him. His career is probably over.
I wouldn't be surprised by a multi year ban by the NFL.
It should be no surprise that the dolphins are 4-4 this season and went 7-9 (7-13 including the pre-season) last season, largely due to their garbage offense. When you have a team with such shitty cohesion where a second year guy is getting routinely harassed then it should be no surprise that the team sucks.
People shouldn't be giving Martin shit for not standing up to the guy. He's probably a smart dude, he went to Stanford. Incognito looks like the victim If Martin knocks him out without telling anyone about what he's doing.
There's rookie hazing and then there are death threats. Don't think Martin is a fool for taking it seriously. I mean, who knows who Incognito's friends are?
EDIT: Just saw this part. Unreal.
"Sources told ESPN that one of the significant allegations being reviewed is that Incognito got Martin to contribute $15,000 to help finance a trip to Las Vegas by some teammates last summer, even though Martin preferred not to travel with the group.
Rather than go, Martin simply gave Incognito the $15,000, sources told ESPN, fearing the consequences if he did not hand over the money."
This Incognito guy is a lunatic with a history of causing problems. Completely nuts. Dropping the n-bomb in insane threatening voicemails to a teammate is completely out of line. Wow.
Before any of this clownery started Incognito was known around the league as one of the dirtiest players. I've seen him do some fucked up stuff on the field and I have prob only seen 5-10 of his games. He also picked the wrong time in history to start bullying people haha. CNN writes an article about bullying basically everyday now.
true - bad timing. But can we all just sit back for a second and try to fathom what a gigantic asshole this guy is. I mean that in the literal and figurative sense.
Not saying it's right, but Martin should have definitely just stopped it himself. No need to cry to front office and media.
Martin should have manned up, however, I've followed Incognito since he was at Nebraska/Oregon and he's nothing but trouble...albeit a freak athlete as well.
People saying he should have "manned up" are fucking dense.
What exactly does "manning up" mean in this instance? Should he have had a fist fight with the guy? Be serious.
This guy was an unhinged lunatic. These aren't just perceived slights, these were absolutely nuts.
Let's not act like tough guys, everybody.
Richie Incognito is the worst kind of human being
The Dolphins must have shitty/zero leadership for this to go on inside the locker room, absolutely embarrassing. The people who think he should man up are equally as embarrassing.
Yeah, aside from how screwed the story itself is, seems weird that his teammates (they must've known) could let this kind of shit go on.
There are a lot of people responding in this thread that have probably never played organized sports. Martin clearly never tried to defend himself and often presented himself as an easy target. Am I defending Incognito for being a mouth breathing racist? No - but this is a professional sports team. There is a lot of "breaking in the new guy" that goes on, and that is often the case in sports at every level. Hell, Incognito even stated in the Dolphins Halloween program that Martin was the easiest player to scare.
I have read nothing that indicates that Martin attempted to put a stop to this shit by himself, and at his size and with his intelligence, it is a little ridiculous that he didn't even attempt to. I mean, for fucks sake, he just forks over 15k to pay for a trip to las vegas because Incognito told him to, and then doesn't even go? That is absolutely absurd. Have some self respect.
Regardless of what happens in this situation, Incognito is probably done in the NFL as he will be looked at as a huge liability. On the flip side, if Martin decides he wants to continue his career, it will probably be short lived as most players will most likely view him as untrustworthy and a snitch.
As someone who HAS played team sports, this is mostly bullshit. Everyone knows there is a whole lot of shit talking/hazing/etc that goes on in a locker room, but there's 'breaking in the new guy' and there's being a fucking psycho. It sounds like Martin put up with it as a rookie (as he should have), and finally reached his breaking point.
Should he defended himself by knocking Incognito the fuck out? Perhaps, but then Martin's the one getting cut, and Incognito turns into a martyr.
Agree with @cruncharoo - I want to know what the hell the rest of the team was doing? No way in hell they didn't know what was going on.
When someone is telling you to give them $15,000 for a trip you aren't even going on, telling them to pound sand doesn't require throwing a punch.
Everything I have read suggests a lot of the players at Miami are taking Incognito's side because they:
1) Like him more 2) Are mad Martin "told"
Let me ask: have you ever played a team sport? Have you ever played football beyond grab ass (flag) on your middle school team? I have, and I can tell you that you fundamentally do not get why what Incognito did to Martin was so fucked up.
I played football for a rich-kid prep school with 500 students. We had a roster of tops 25 kids. Are average lineman weight maybe 210 wearing pads. Yet we would still trounce public schools with 40 man rosters and athletes far better than ours. Why? Because although we weren't all friends and there was hazing, nobody EVER got treated like shit. We all fundamentally liked the team we were on and wanted it to win.
I then went and played for a D3 team where the culture was the opposite. Not only was there hazing, there was outright abuse. Kids who didn't fit in were harassed regularly. When we lost (a regular occurrence) the offense blamed the defense and vice versa. In other words, the team was shitty environment... and our regular loosing record (sub .500 every year) showed that.
The point is is that whether or not Martin should've have responded (I'm gonna ignore how retarded it is to imply that Martin could have ended the abuse simply by punching his teammate in the face) having this sort of treatment is not normal (I have friends on top D1 programs and a rookie in the NFL and they think that Martin was truly a freak incident) and reflects in the fact that the Dolphins suck. As I said earlier, the .500 record the dolphins have shows how much this environment has ruined the team. Not too mention that Incognito has ever played for winning teams himself.
Rookie hazing is part of every sport at every level pretty much. The fundamental rule is you take your knocks and pay your dues.
This went waaay beyond rookie hazing. And the people saying he should have fought him are fucking stupid. (a) they've probably never fought anyone in their lives and (b) bullying is a social and not physical phenomenal.
This fucker is on the leadership council or whatever the fuck its called, hes a 10 year NFL veteran, you fuck with him as a rookie and you'll pretty much be the black sheep of the team and possibly league.
Martin is not a rookie.
There was some video of Incognito that came out yesterday of him at some bar going absolutely ape shit screaming and yelling. He drops the n-bomb within 30 seconds of the start of the video.
Why would anyone take this dude's side?
I am definitely not taking his side. I just simply don't understand why Martin was completely incapable of standing up for himself and why Incognito basically owned this guy. The freely handing over of 15k just makes no sense to me.
As for the guys at Miami that seem to be taking his side, I have no idea. Again, I can tell you from years of playing organized sports, there are specifics cliques within a team and often times those cliques stick together, no matter how wrong a certain individual might be.
1.) Rookies pay for shit for vets all teh time in the NFL. That stuff was the least of the problems here.
2.) The problem is really that Incognito was leaving insane threatening and racist voicemails on Martin's phone, threatening him and his family. That's not hazing, that's just an unhinged person. Everyone knows there is some level of hazing of the young guys, but this kind of stuff goes beyond hazing
3.) Incognito simply isn't even that good of a player for this kind of shit.
4.) What do you suggest he do? How do we know that he didn't say something? Maybe Martin told him to chill, or maybe someone else did, and that led to Incognito leaving the over-the-top psychopath voicemails.
I agree with most of what Nefarious is saying. In no way do I condone Incognito's behavior but I also believe Martin is a total pussy. When it comes to shelling out 15k for no reason, all the other players would've had a ton more respect for Martin if he'd told Incognito to fuck off.
To everyone who says Martin should not have "manned up", it doesn't mean he has to fist fight him in the locker room. He should have just stood his ground.
I agree that he shouldn't pay the guy 15K like that, it's nuts. But, I don't take issue with him escalating the matter after the guy left the voicemails that he did. If you called a black colleague the n-word at your office, you'd rightfully be shitcanned in a heartbeat and you'd be a social pariah.
It is completely unacceptable to act like that.
People calling Martin a pussy is moronic and juvenile. If he's said no to paying 15,000 for a Vegas trip, you think that'd alleviate things? Guys like Incognito are complete pricks and saying no just to gives him a reason to be more so to Martin.
He took the most diplomatic and appropriate avenue possible. Racism and bigotry have no place in professional sports and just standing up for yourself doesn't make guys like Incognito stop being chauvinistic scumbags.
I never said that. And that is honestly the most negligible offense committed by Incognito. Martin was upset enough to leave the team, and I don't think anybody on this board has been in his situation, so all I'm saying is stop trying to act like you know anything about it by calling him a pussy for not telling him Incognito to screw off. That would've likely not solved anything for Martin.
Also, hazing does go on but it is also mostly in good fun.. you pay for a dinner for the vets, dress up/do some humiliating stuff and have extra responsibilities, sit at the front of the plane, etc, it's not malicious or targeting it is just what you do. This is not anything like that.
I have no problem with rookie hazing. But Incognito wasn't "hazing" Martin. He was threatening his life. I mean, listen to these voicemails. They're scary as hell, especially if you know Incognito has had run-ins with the law (which I'm sure Martin did).
Is it really that crazy for Martin to think that Incognito might hurt him or his family? Think about Plaxico Burress, Gilbert Arenas, Jovan Belcher......there are plenty of professional athletes that have had gun problems in the past few years. And it's turned out badly.I mean, for fuck's sake, Ray Lewis' friends killed someone.
Plaxico Burress had a much different kind of "gun problem"
Aaron Hernandez
Dunno how I forgot about him..
Mike and Mike made the point this morning that it might have been a combination of factors that led to this but its a good thing Incognito picked a guy with Martin's intellectual upbringing and tendencies as a lot of other players could have tried to resolve this with a gun. That said, a guy who would be willing to shoot someone probably wouldnt take as much shit as Martin did before doing something but still.
Just saw this and I thought I'd share:
"Was Richie Incognito wrong? Absolutely. But I think the other guy is just as much to blame as Richie, because he allowed it to happen. At this level, you're a man. You're not a little boy. You're not a freshman in college. You're a man." -Antrel Rolle
Again, what does this mean? It's such stupid bullshit rhetoric.
Also, he needs to stfu and work on his game, he's been a real letdown for me as a Giants fan.
People used to say shit like that after young women got raped. This "blame the victim" line of reasoning is so tired.
You can't possibly be comparing a woman getting raped to an OL playing in the NFL that is 6'5, 312 pounds allowing himself to get pushed around, can you?
These arguments are so stupid.
First off, you gotta look at who you're dealing with. Incognito has been an asshole and huge liability for every team he's played on. He was an absolute beast in the drug game and until recently with the Dolphins hasn't even come close to resembling somebody whose head is screwed on right. So the guy's got a screw or two loose, and he's obsessed with hazing rookies. Everyone's got their weird thing they cling to in order to establish an identity, and that's always been his. He's got it on a sign taped right to his locker: "Richie Incognito only hates two things: taxes and rookies."
Maybe Martin was his favorite rookie to haze. And maybe he really was just that easy. Martin probably tolerated the hazing as a rookie because that's perceived to happen to everybody. But for whatever reason, Incognito felt the need to keep up that level of harassment on Martin into his second year. Once Martin realized it wasn't going away, he probably decided he had to do something about it. The keyboard warriors in this thread saying he needed to "man up" and stop it himself are right... kind of. He did stop it himself, just not the way you guys were thinking, not that you'd do anything differently.
You won't see anybody stand up and put their job on the line to save Incognito, but you will probably see most players without a connection on either side of the issue siding with the "keep it in the family" argument, which is totally fair because you never know what an extreme feels like until you're actually at it and you want to keep yourself from that reputation anyway. But just the sheer annoyance of having to deal with Incognito for that long, sweet Jesus, I'd have done something a long time ago.
One last thing. Jon Martin is 6' 5", weighs 310lbs. Incognito is almost as big and a whole lot faster. I don't think anyone should be arguing for "taking it into his own hands."
I posted a link from ESPN earlier that lays out a timeline of incidents that Incognito has been involved with since college. They paint a pretty vivid picture of what type of person he is. Added, it has been my experience that people don't change.
That being said, why would teams continue to pick him up if he had this type of behavior? Are they just as equal to blame here because they put a volatile and possible insane player in the locker room with others?
They would be if the supply of mentally-stable players of a decent caliber was even close to ample, but I think that's just the nature of the beast. It's what comes with being an athlete... not exactly a strict policy on character. It's why teams still want to draft Aaron Hernandez despite trouble with the law and a background involving gun violence. They think they can turn him around, or that it's a one-time thing, or that once he has some money or relocates or "grows up" all the problems will stop.
If we blame the team for signing him despite his history then it's really no different than blaming every employer for ever hiring somebody with a criminal background or even simply a history of being hard to get along with. And that wouldn't make much sense for anyone, as the world would eventually converge on 100% unemployment.
It's hilarious...it will be interesting to see how the Dolphins fare the rest of the season.
Hes just gonna weather the storm. No worries.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/us/nfl-dolphins-richie-incognito-suspende…
He also got a brand new ferrari yesterday so that should have cushioned the blow a bit.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/06/sources-ireland-suggest…
On another note... does anyone else feel like the media machine is getting a hold of this thing and having an orgy? Today's breaking news is that the GM suggested Martin punch Incognito in the face; as if that's some outrageous absurdity.
Teammates get in physical fights all the time... in fact, if it turned out that a fist fight broke out between 2 Miami Dolphins... it probably would have been buried at the bottom of the Yahoo! Sports.
https://twitter.com/jasonlacanfora/status/398645182138445824
Jesus, this is getting kinda ridiculous. Apparently someone, not Incognito, send a fair graphic text. I have to feel like this goes on a lot and we just dont see it.
Honestly I heard and said stupid shit like this... when I was in high school. How is it surprising that a bunch of testosterone-filled, hyper-competitive guys would say stuff like this? It's never meant to be hurtful, it's just bullshit people say in the locker room.
Of course, we never texted each other this kind of thing or called each other up, it got said in the locker room/on the field and that's pretty much where it stayed.
Agreed, I heard/said shit like this too when I was in high school.
A common game we had at nationals was we'd see who would walk around the stadium the longest with their ball sack hanging out of the side of their shorts. We'd stand in line at the concessions, we'd take a nap between games, stretch and do warm ups... all while a pink and wrinkly sack was completely exposed. Hilarious and harmless as we thought it was, you wouldn't do this as an adult in your workplace... or anywhere else really.
I think the difference was that: (a) we were kids and (b) it wasn't a professional setting. As a 16 year old football player, the bar is set pretty low in terms of appropriateness in what you can say/do among your peers.
I think people are forgetting that while these guys play a game for a living, they are still professionals. We used to crack rape jokes, call each other fags, talk about gang banging each other's sisters/mothers, etc, but that doesn't mean I would now as an adult behave in that manner in my workplace.
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