Ruling of the South China Sea and Bill Clinton

So, I am going to say upfront that I don't like China. It's not their commoners, but their communist party and anybody who blindingly supports the bully regime. Reasons: their planned economy is wasting natural resources across the world, which is used to build ghost cities that serve no purposes; most of the people, except for few, who got affluent so suddenly are one way or another connected to the corrupt and dishonest communist party and these people are who do not share democratic or meritocratic values are pouring into advanced nations, thereby negatively impacting communities; their communist planned economy is dumping products everywhere in the world through very cunning trade tactics, including subsidized state bank lending, non-compliance with any environmental standards, blatant corporate espionage, disregard of intellectual property, and enormous trade barriers to protect their companies and industries while killing others. Moreover, their pollution situation is so bad that it wouldn't be a stretch to say it's at an apocalyptic level.

This issue, concerning the recent ruling of the South China Sea border was a particular interest for me because I don't want their fishing ships to go around everywhere poaching fish on a scale that is too large. These illegal Chinese ships are going everywhere, even as far as Argentina. They're not only killing other countries' companies, but also fish and many other things. Also, this issue reveals the true identity of the Chinese regime: they will never respect the common values of the world. Already the puppet media over there are screaming and yelling like the uncivilized Chinese people at airports.


Have we heard of India, a close comparison that can be made with China because of their population size, doing this on this scale? No. Because they don't have an authoritarian regime that sets up agenda to bully around and to grow their economy at any costs.

I simply think that the world cannot allow this kind of behavior from China. The world has limited resources, whether its natural resources or wealth, and China has been sucking out too much of it over the last 20-30 years.

Thinking about the reason, I think Bill Clinton was the enabler. Of course, he not might have seen China behave like this acting no different from Russia, or even worse, but he shouldn't have ever allowed China to WTO. I think the world should unite together and ban all trade with China all at once until they respect their neighbors and act as a responsible global community member.

What do the WSOers think about this?

 

Disclaimer: I don't know what I am talking about.

But from what I understand, China's economy is so large that it is no longer reliant on trade with other countries to remain sustainable. If this is true, your proposed strategy would be useless, correct? Feel free to correct.

"There's no reason to be the richest man in the cemetery. You can't do business from there." - Colonel Sanders
 

I am not only talking about banning exports from China, but also exporting goods to there. We shouldn't export oil, coal, copper, aluminum, etc. Also, the companies that are in China should all get out of their en masse, and relocate to elsewhere. Also, we should ban all banking financial transactions with them as well: the same kind of sanctions that we are putting in place in Russia and North Korea. Yes, their domestic economy is large, but still, they derive significant GDP from it, and they will no longer invest in buildings or any other fixed assets since they won't have natural resources. We have to do this, otherwise, the whole world will become a disaster and their military forces will become even larger to the extent they will no longer listen to anyone. We have to do this when the world as a whole still has power against them.

 

Well, I didn't want to link this with the U.S. presidential campaign, but, yes, I think we need to think about whether unfettered globalism is right, especially when there is a large disrupter like China.

 

I'm a steadfast opponent of most of China's bullying foreign policy, from the Nine Dashed Line in the South China Sea, to its neo-colonialism in Africa to the One Belt - One Road project.

Yet I find it difficult to find a statement in the OP that I can agree with. So much ignorance, yet so much opinion. As adapt or die says, Trump 2016.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
Best Response

Can you point out where I stated my opinion? I think only the 4th paragraph and the part where I stated that we should no longer engage in any trade with them are opinions, and the rest of it I believe are facts. Some of the aspects that I have laid out are directly stated in 10k reports for some industries that face "lack of producer discipline," which directly is pointing out China.

And the reason I have written this post in the first place is that they had stated even before the ruling that the UN tribunal doesn't mean anything to them and will totally ignore whatever they say. For me, this is unprecedented disrespect of the current world order and the world should no longer accept their behavior whether it's trade or their military. Geopolitical risks that are linked to China is rising very rapidly, and especially after this ruling, I can see it only escalate.

 

Unprecedented? I think not. The US did the same thing to Nicaragua https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States

US helps overthrow (or, rather, an attempt at such) the Nicaraguan government. International Court of Justice rules against the US, but the US ignores the ruling for 6 years until a change in Nicaraguan government.

Plenty of precedent set by the US. Not saying it justifies what China's doing, but I find it laughable when an American takes the moral high ground on this. American foreign policy has been pretty toxic -- actively destabilizing Latin America and the Middle East to further their own interests. China has been pretty innocuous thus far in that sense.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/election-2016-is-propelled-by-the-american-…

I highly recommend anybody who's reading this post to look at the above article. There are academic studies on how China have sucked out tremendous amount of money from the U.S. and how they have destroyed the middle income in the U.S. But did they do that using proper trade tactics and complying with WTO rules? No.

Unfortunately, this is now happening or at least are starting to happen to other countries as well, so this is no longer a U.S. trade deficit problem. I can guarantee that the rise of China has only made the world a less enjoyable place to live in.

Also, the commenters seem to be avid Trump supporters, and guess in which states are Trump is winning big league? The states that have been hit very hard by the rise of China.

Seriously, this election has been distracted by so many unimportant things, shootings, and terrorist attacks, but I think Chinese communist regime has the most lasting negative impacts on just only the U.S., but the whole world.

 

I would describe it as more of a capitalist oligarchy where the communist party and those associated get all the perks of capitalism while they use their political power to oppress the common man via claims that they are still communist.

Array
 

Where am I misguided? I haven't said that the economy is completely planned. And, regarding your statement, it's only partly true. If China is just a capitalistic economy only masquerading as a communist/planned one, how can you explain the bloated SOEs? How can you explain the gigantic local government debt that has been stolen from the peasants' land to develop ghost cities and other wasteful projects that serve no purpose? Why are there so littlie bankruptcies despite the fact that many companies are losing so many cash and are loaded with debt? Why do local governments guarantee debts to companies that manufacture, for example, candies? Why is there a gigantic overcapacity in the steel industry? Lastly, if China is truly responsible global trade partner to the rest of the world, why don't they respect any rules and why are they trying to protect firms from foreign competition while sucking out resources and money from the rest of the world? Do you really think that Apple has infrigned Shenzhen Baili's intellectual property? Why has the Chinese court ruled against Apple from this obscure firm?

Aside from the economic and trade issues, their defiance to the recent sea border ruling is just disgusting. Do you think China owns the area of those sea that are in conflct? Anybody with common sense can easily sense that the sea borders that have been drawn by their conmmunist regime is nonsense.

 

Just few questions. How many years have you been in China? How often does your company do business with China? How do you know Chinese People? What are those big bosses standing behind China manufactures? Give your opinion by your own real world experience rather than by solely reading those articles. You have no idea what's going on on the other side of the world.

 

You are not being specific about any of my points that could be wrong and just claiming that I have no idea about China. Although I haven't been to China, I've been to HK - and, by the way, when I say this, Chinese people from the mainland quickly correct me that HK and Taiwan are both China - I have been forced to know about their economy and their society because many of the businesses that I deal with are highly linked to China. I don't think that one necessarily has to live in a country to understand it, and, besides, these days there are plenty of mainland Chinese people coming to foreign countries for their bachelor's or master's degrees so you can learn some from them. What I have observed is that people coming from the mainland, not the 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants, are extremely nationalistic and biased and don't like it when I criticise, say, Xi Jinping or the Chinese communist regime. The scary thing is that these people who can afford to come to foreign countries for their studies are not peasants. Most of them are from communist party backgrounds that are wealthy. With their communist-regime-centric, nationalistic mindset, how would they respond to global matters once they have a say on matters?

So, to answer your question of my interaction with mainland Chinese people, I am pretty frightened and it always reminds me that the world is still not safe because of these tyrants and tyrant followers.

And I know that you are trying to make a point that foreign companies are benefiting from China, given your statement about the big bosses part, but I have to say that this is no longer the case. Companies that solely want to enjoy labor arbitrage are going to Vietnam or elsewhere, and most of the companies that are still staying there these days are there to enter the Chinese domestic market. But given the blatant corporate espionage and IP infringement, I wonder if the benefits can outweigh the tremendous hidden costs of doing business in China. Also, the Chinese regime is making it harder for foreign companies to compete in their market, so, yes, only time will tell, but, at least for me, it seems like a great illusion that you can make great money as a foreign company these days: look at what's happening to Apple.

 

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