Sales Career Path
Hey Everyone,
I have a quick question. I will start FT at a major BB this summer in S&T. My question is, what is the typical career path for someone in equity sales? Is it possible to move from sales to something that is more "quant"? Thanks.
sure, just network
this is a good question. what exit opps are there for sales people at different levels?
and I actually happily concur with that statement.
Howeover,
you could certainly move to many of the interdealer brokers out there (e.g. ICAP, GFI, BGC) after your analyst or associate level in sales with respect to your particular product or even a product that is comparable IMO.
Besides that, all proposals for exit opps in equity sales will be entertained...
dont expect to go back to an ibank if you go to an interdealer broker. its looked down upon.
but I know of sales people who go to trading or research side, sometimes capital markets
most sales people stay in sales or help raise assets for HFs
I would say that equity sales offers a very different career path than other fields of sales like structured products, DCM etc. You're selling your company's research or algorithms. In other sales desks, I would say it's less sales and more investment banking in that you make pitchbooks, create models, go to client meetings etc.
IDB's and boutiques are probably the most common. Once you have the relationships established and have clients that will send you flow your going to make so much more money at a IDB or boutique than you would at a BB.
.02-.04/share with a 40-50% payout is the norm.
PM me if you want to talk more.
equity sales (S&T) analyst/associate career path to VP and above?? (Originally Posted: 05/16/2010)
While the differences between analyst/associate/vp roles/responsibilites in IB have been well defined. I'm curious to know the differences at these levels in a equity sales role in S&T. Does your seniority just mean you deal with larger more important clients?? Also, How are clients relationships established for new analyst/associates, are they specifically given to you?, or does the entire desk already have a group of client relationships established, and your job is to strengthen it so that they will place more trades with your bank vs. another?? In reality, is this relationship more based upon how much they like you as a person/personality, or is it about your knowledge and ability to make recommendations.
Can someone who works in equity sales explain the career progression, key determinants of success as you move up the ladder??
interested in hearing this as well
bump
answer:
Can anyone answer this?
What's the career development of a sales person? (Originally Posted: 05/14/2013)
Hey, guys,
I am a Chinese senior student just got an offer from Corporate Sales in the Commerzbank Beijing branch. Our major products are FX spot, FX forward, structured deposit, etc. I am not quite familiar with this field, so can anyone tell me what is the future career development of a sales person? Thx!
You will be primarily selling to corporate treasuries and hedgers. The structured product are more likely for large multi-national corporations and some funds that need to hedge their investments in China.
In sales, the career development is more in the size of deals you can go after. Sales is eat what you kill so as your skill and book builds out you will be able to get your own deals with out being assisted by a senior sales. It's typically Sales Assistant/Analyst, Associate, AVP or directly to VP. When you get to the VP level that's where you will be on your own to source and close your own deals and these are typically larger deals as you do not want to waste time on smaller accounts and you will be passing those accounts to your juniors with a 50/50 split if you are nice or take 70/30 if you are an asshole.
This is a volume business and decentralized, but there are enough ecns and data portals that will provide market color. Commerzbank is pretty strong in the FX market, but you will face tough competition from the DB, UBS, C and GS boys.
Many thanks for your information! I wonder is it possible to change to some other positions in the future, like trader?
it's possible to change careers, but these are two very different skill sets. Traders in FX are called dealers (in general) and generally these guys do a lot of flow trading in the early stages and you get to make markets later once you are proven.
Generally speaking it's easier for a trader to transition into sales than the other way around. If you can trade, you know the mechanics of pricing and can easily understand a client's complex needs. Sales people in general have a hard time grasping in depth and complex situations.
Sales - Please educate me (Originally Posted: 06/20/2007)
Hey guys, I've read over this forum pretty thoroughly, and have gathered lots of great info about trading.
I would like some more info about the Sales part of S & T, specifically:
Appreciate it, feel free to describe anything whatsoever with Sales.
I've already searched the forum for some answers, and if you recommend any other sources of info thanks in advance.
1)talk to clients, show ideas, get their feedback and desires. take them out a few times a week or month 2) at the senior level: revenue. same as everyone else. 3)communication, affability, the ability to take a lot of sht and bear it (from trading and clients) 4)yes 5)other sales jobs or the buyside.
edit
Thanks Jimbo.
Are 1st year people in sales referred to as "analysts"?
Why would traders give sh*t to sales? When sales promises something that can't be done? Or just because sales people are funny to make angry?
yes they are called analysts.
trading and sales have a relationship that is part symbiotic, part antagonistic. so yeah if they promise something that can't be done and then try to stuff me with the risk. or if they make asinine comments or fail to understand the markets. and yeah it can be funny sometimes I guess.
Sales and trading can be antagonistic at times when there are disagreements over a transaction. (e.g. sales is trying to win a deal with a client who is shopping the hell out of them and trader gives them a bad price(in their opinion))
However at the end of the day, the banks traders need the flow of the salespeople, and the salespeople need the traders because they need to be able to give a price and pass off the risk to the traders instead of holding it themselves.
That said, depending on the complexity and size of a transaction its usually good to keep the traders in the loop on bigger more complex deals. Traders get pissed if you spring some deal on them they arent prepared for.
"Sales and trading can be antagonistic at times when there are disagreements over a transaction. (e.g. sales is trying to win a deal with a client who is shopping the hell out of them and trader gives them a bad price(in their opinion)) "
Sales in general will only think a trader's price is "bad" because they're seeing better away. That's what comprises their "opinion". And then if you do wind up winning all the guys care about is their sales credit.
"However at the end of the day, the banks traders need the flow of the salespeople, and the salespeople need the traders because they need to be able to give a price and pass off the risk to the traders instead of holding it themselves. "
I agree trading needs to see the flow, but sales cannot take risk even if they wanted to.
"That said, depending on the complexity and size of a transaction its usually good to keep the traders in the loop on bigger more complex deals. Traders get pissed if you spring some deal on them they arent prepared for."
no kidding.
If sales can't take any risk where does the bonus value derive from?
Sales guys are a buffer between traders and accounts. When accounts are selling something, the salesperson forwards the offer to the trader. When traders are selling something, the salespeople forward it on to their clients.
Sales guys are an exit opportunity for traders' positions.
The value they add is their ability to know which traders to send client offers to and know which clients to send trader offers to. They glean this information via conversations and schmoozing on the client end and via getting the job done on the trader end.
There must not be too much upside then. The average sales MD, in, let's say commodities, what will he clear for an average bonus?
there is tremendous upside in sales, those guys can make a fortune....if I give a price on 100mm of 10yr rate, and the sales guy can stick a quarter of a bp in it when he shows his client, he's just made some cash for the firm. and if he shows my level through, he gets a sales credit for a portion of the bid offer.
again, there is plenty of money to be made in sales.
sklloa the position you are talking about is the sales-trader.
On the equity side, there is contact between sales and trading, but not on a huge level.
the flow of contact is like this (on equities)
sales---> portfolio manager: PM---> hedge fund trader:: HF trader --->bank trader/sales trader where the transaction is complete.
The true role of sales is to give the buyside access to research, information on what other buysiders are doing, and proprietary ideas from the salesmen/desk.
Information is the most valuable commodity the salesemn have. If you have a good client, you let them know what other "nameless" clients are doing...usually something like "some smart money is positioning themselves in XYZ for these reasons, what do you think" stuff like that. its more complex than that, but those are some of the basics.
ZK, salesmen make a lot of money. On the desk I'm on, MD makes between 2-3million. People on the desk who have been there for only 5 years make 7 figures. These people are responsible for bringing in, and keeping the biggest buyside names clients of the firm, very important task, if not for them, the bank would have no one to do business with on the markets side.
Wow. That's insane. I love equities and equity derivs and my goal is to become a salesman. Bought my first stock in high school. I now have two degrees. Sonyhdra, can we talk about how you broke into S&T?
I'm talking about Fixed Income salesmen. Guys that actually add value. Equity salesmen won't exist in five years.
you have no idea what you are talking about.
ok - I only have 6 years experience on a MBS and now CDO desk douche.
I sit next to the equity guys and know that a robot (computer) could do their job.
There's no such thing as sales-trader...only for desks too small to employ both.
i work at a top 2 BB, and know for a fact that equity sales people will be there in 5 years. and are you retarded? there is a sales-trader position, every major bank employs quite a few of them. Our bank is perhaps the top trader of equities on the street. You are quite misinformed.
if sales jobs are going to disappear, why are the margins on the international sales desk i work on expanding on YoY basis, and business booming?
Why are the the top banks hiring more and more equity people every year if the position won't be around in 5 years? I'm pretty sure the executives at the top wall street firms know a little more about the future of the business then you do.
If you work with FI, why are you sitting with equity guys?
True, algorithmic trading is becoming prevalent, but that means that the equity traders will be the firs to go, not sales men. There will always be a need for equity salesmen. The buyside will always want a human being to talk to about ideas, research and to find out what the other buy sides are doing.
And I'm the second to say that equity sales is STILL HERE and they are hiring them left and right.
5 Years have passed and the winner is ..........Sonyhdna!!
Angelus, best post ever.
Mods... pleaseeee front page this. Angelus is a baller.
I second that. Excellent post.
Haha they really should......btw who is excited about Sales and trading March Madness?
It has to be pointed out that skiloa probably lost his job a year after this post since he was sitting there bragging about working on the CDO desk
try again. 5 yrs from today. see you guys back here in feb 2017...unless the world has been over-run by dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark at you they shoot bees...
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