Taking internship after graduating.

So I am a senior set to graduate in applied math from a non-target this Spring. Investment banking was one of those things that I jsut figured I would do after a short stint as an actuary then onto an MBA program and finally breaking into the field as an Associate.

Lately I have been toying with the idea of trying to get into a smaller boutique bank or doing a summer internship to get my foot in the door. (skipping the actuary part. ive already passed the first exam and I'll pass the second one in May)

But, like I said earlier, I am graduating. Do banks ever hire people as interns after they have received their BS? Would this even be helpful in order to land an analyst job? My stats (school, gpa, extracurrics) are not good enough to get an internship or even an analyst offer at a BB or top MM at this point (hence the plan of getting a top MBA in a few years), so would experience at a boutique help this at all?

I'm not shooting for the stars here. I would be happy working at a MM or strong boutique as an analyst prior to getting my MBA in a few years.

Any comments?

 

i would say apply to as many MM and boutiques right now. It would be much easier for you when MBA recruiting comes for the associate positions. I go to a semi target and many of my friends are getting calls from the boutiques they are applying to. The regional ibank post is an awesome resource. This will take some time so if you need a job right after graduation go with the actuary route. The only thing is you will have to differentiate urself from all the Big4 and other accounting professionals when it comes to Bschool. So i guess my comment would be to continue to recruit if you can.

 

Well, I was thinking of something a little tricky, and that is to delay graduation until next November but not take any classes. This would technically put me as a junior.

Not sure how well that would go over. I'll try to apply to some MM/boutique positions. The only problem I see is that I have no meaningful financial work experience. The actuary role will certainly give me a lot of exposure to finance and modelling, but I feel that by the time I gian enough valuable experience I might as well go to B-school.

 

There is also the slim chance that I could go back and get another degree in Finance. I haven't done the numbers on it yet, but it would probably take me about 6 months. I am beginning to think that this might be a bad idea and to maybe just apply to boutique banks right off.

Is there any threads about resume/cover letter strategy for boutique banks? Or should I just mass-mail the market with my stuff.

 

This is very possible, but try to stick to talking to bankers more than HR. Look up the networking article on m&i and read up on it here as well. More people do this than you realize, and if you dont get anywhere within a period of time just get a mfe/msf

Get busy living
 

It's an excellent way to get in if you missed the analyst program. In my old firm 90% of the analysts came from internships, which proved a great way to test somebody before pulling the trigger. Does it have to be unpaid though?

 

Do you think MM or Boutique IBs will be more flexible in accepting me. I'm finding myself in catch-22 situation here. What can be the way out?

If I want to be in IB as FT Associate 3-5 years down the line what should be my path? I am even considering full time MBA from top 10 b school (if i'm unable to get through with current credentials.)

 

I would specifically want to go into IB M&A role. My perception is that internship is very very crucial. I would be more than willing to apply FT directly. Maybe I am not aware about the jobs specifically for non-finance background people. Can you please throw some more light on this... Thanks in advance.

 

I'm not sure what it's like for American recruiting but I know quite a few people who did a SA in London the summer of their graduation year. Some then joined full-time immediately after, others received an offer to return the following summer on the full-time program. Some did a Masters in between while others enjoyed the year off. I also know a few who got onto off-cycle internships and then received a full-time offer as a result of that. Off-cycle internships are random in their posting and entirely dependent on business requirements. A team which suddenly has very busy deal flow might need to take on analysts as off-cycle interns, some will get offers if they impress and the group needs full-time analysts.

 

Just write on your application you are planning on doing a Masters therefore a 'penultimate year' and apply for SA (as most places hire through their intern pool now or poach from another intern pool). I've seen so many people intern then just stay on FT. All this penultimate year crap is just for HR but in reality things are quite different.

 

I am in the same position, did my summer internship at another bank which is not that big in S&T. Majority of banks seem to only have SA open only. Would really appreciate for someone to clarify the masters situation as well?

 

In a similar position to you - the last two people I spoke to: one from JPM, one from MS, both said apply for summer analyst positions - neither said to not apply for grad programmes but apply for both if possible.

 

Thanks for the input. So, even if it's the same company? For example if I apply for a BB's IBD internship and grad scheme? Does this send the message that I'm trying my best or that I'm desperate (and probably not worth considering)? For this next wave of applications I really don't want to screw any of them up from the beginning.

 

@"matayo" I mean, I could ask to be unpaid and come in later in the day (5pm?) And just work on the modeling, etc. @"Loki777" I live on the East Bay (Oakland), so yeah there are a lot of those around here, should I always push for a FT job first? Internships should be my second priority right?

 

I'm in a pretty bad position myself, actually similar to you BUT man unpaid internships are just not worth it.

Try the staffing agencies like Robert Half or Atrium - they'll place as a paid contractor somewhere and you can impress and turn it into a full time role.

 

I agree with you about unpaid internships, especially if you're fresh out of college. They're okay if you're in college and hoping to break in. Luckily, this internship I'm doing is from home, so no worries there.

Any other advice/tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

@"FinanceWizKid1000" : I actually have been studying for my actuarial exams and one of them is Model of Financial Engineering, which is really interested. It deals with pricing options almost exclusively. Things such as Black-Scholes and Oto's lemma, Monte Carlo valuation... I never really liked studying for them except this one, which applies to finance a lot more than calcualting mortality rates and such. I guess I could shoot for S&T but I have no experience in ANY financial field, but IB has BETTER exit opps (Been reading this forum quite a bit). Ultimately I want to leverage my IB experience to get into PE or HF.

 

Dude not to be a dick or anything, but do you know what IB analysts actually do? (hint: it has nothing to do with options pricing)

Regardless, to successfully make this move you'll need to have a compelling answer to the WHY question. Saying that you want to go to PE/HF after an analyst stint is not an acceptable response. Exit opps are important, sure, but it sounds like you need to think about what you really want to do, and not where you'll make the most money.

 

Post-graduate internships aren't common. Why would they hire you when they just got a new class of bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 1st years? And why would they take you vs an equally bright-eyed college student who they can brainwash into the system?

You should consider something along the lines of quantitative investment, which your degree might assist in. I don't think you even know what IB vs. S&T does. Do you do any investing of your own? I could see a place like Peak6, etc. being interested in your actuarial background and experience with options pricing, provide you can point to solid results. How long have you been in your sales position?

Also. 166 on GRE is nothing. That test is a joke.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

Agree with parctribe. I would say research the IB field thoroughly (WSO and M&I should be your guide plus networking with people in the field). The answer you provided leads to believe more strongly in recommending that you explore S&T (as an IB professional myself, option pricing is not you will be dealing with coming into the field or spending the majority of time on).

Plus, be careful of allure of IB based on what a is written on forums. The information is a mix of people in the field, but moreso people looking to break into the industry. Think about what next step you truly want to take in your career and go from there. The fact that you mention the exit ops immediately in pursuing IB would be a turn-off for most people doing interviews (the strong exit opps are implicitly understood for candidates.

Just some food for thought...

 

@"parctribe" I have read a lot about what ib analysts and associate do, and I know it is basically an Excel and Powerpoint machine, with little sleep and little appreciation. But you have to pay your dues in life and I am ready to do so. Compelling answer of IB would be that I go suddenly interested while studying my first real financially related actuarial exam.

@"chicandtoughness" I have been on this position for a little less than 4 months. Also, technically I am STILL a birght-eyed recent college grad O.o .Do you recommend me to go directly to regional boutiques and skip the BBs and MM banks? Do you recommend me to shoot for internships or FT offers? I just read a little bit about Peak 6 and it seems like a pretty good field to get into (particularly trading associate position) can you give me a little insight of what is the nature of their work? Shoot me a pm if you think it would derail this discussion.

 
Best Response
InvestmentConfucius:

@chicandtoughness I have been on this position for a little less than 4 months. Also, technically I am STILL a birght-eyed recent college grad O.o .Do you recommend me to go directly to regional boutiques and skip the BBs and MM banks? Do you recommend me to shoot for internships or FT offers? I just read a little bit about Peak 6 and it seems like a pretty good field to get into (particularly trading associate position) can you give me a little insight of what is the nature of their work? Shoot me a pm if you think it would derail this discussion.

The point is that there are bright-eyed college graduates that they've already interviewed, found, and offered jobs to. Why should they add you in?

I would look for entry-level positions in your case, unless you're trying to get into an industry that requires internship experience (for example, PR is nigh impossible to break into without internship experience). I don't know too much about Peak6 but I know someone who works as a trading associate there. Want me to connect you? PM me your email.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

@"FinanceWizKid1000" Of course, I won't mention exit opps in front of a banker. And that is why I am interested in IB more than S&T, the very strong exit opps opportunity that would get me into an buyside job where I think I would excel. I am a very aggressive and excellent seller, so if I get into IB and progress through the ranks into VPs etc, I think I would be a very engaging and good at pitching. But analyzing and investing appeals me much more, even more so considering I would like better working hours after grinding it out in IB for a few years.

Anyhow, I am not afraid of the hours. The time that I spend working and studying for my exams is already in the low 80s. If I throw in sending emails and calling people in the future it would soon be much more than that.

 

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