MS in Finance, is it Worth it?
Hey Everyone,
What are the opinions/public perceptions on getting an MS in Finance? How is it looked at by MBA programs (I hear it can seen as a "GPA reset button" if an undergrad GPA wasn't so hot)?
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Be sure to research what companies are part of OCR for whatever field you are interested in, otherwise, the MS could be a waste of time or require a lot more hustle to get the job you want
I disagree wholeheartedly with viewing MSFs as nothing more than a reset button for your undergrad. There are plenty of MSF programs that offer incredible course loads that will help you become an expert in the field of finance (solidified through application in the real world).
If your main track in life is finance with the ultimate goal being a CFO or something, I think the MSF is more valuable than the MBA.
The MSF is what you want it to be. I think too many people think it is going to paper over a bad UG performance and don't realize that this is a graduate level program in finance. It can help a bad UG GPA, but the program is very challenging and you will come out knowing a lot more about the subject than during undergrad.
You'll also gain another alumni base, more OCR, another chance to network and build friends (most of which will be going into some area of finance). You will be able to get more involved in competitions and other school activities. It will give you a chance to relocate and rebrand as well.
Is it worth it? Only you can decide. The program is absolutely respect, but not as known as the MBA. Give it 10-20 years and you'll see this change. It is an easy sell to financial firms who might be looking for someone to hit the ground running. Outside of banking it is look at often times as being an MBA substitute.
Currently in an MSF program and a decently prestigious school, definitely not a target school though.
Will probably be unemployed and sell newspapers on the side of the road by graduation. That is my best career choice as of now.
Take that at face value.
MSF program worth it? (Originally Posted: 03/08/2009)
Just wondering how is BB value Master of Science in Finance program in school like Boston C and UIUC
BC MSF requires work experience. In my opinion, the only MSF programs here that are worth it are Princeton's and MIT's. You're better of doing an MSF in the U.K. (great programs with great placements).
what colleges in UK have good MSF?
Oxford Cambridge LSE LBS (work exp. required) Warwick
The ones mentioned above are usually the top ones. There are others but I really can't remember right now. I'm not sure if I should have included Imperial in the list above.
Imperial = I have never seen so many Asian people in on sq mile within Europe
Why are these MSFs in UK have better placements than those in the US? How competitive is it to get into MSF at Oxford and Cambridge? Do you need really solid work experience and grades?
In the UK the MSF is the most prominent graduate degree. Think MBA in the US = MSc in the UK. Plus all the top schools in the UK have an MSF whereas in the US only say MIT and Princeton offer the degree.
and prices for MSF in UK and MBA in US are comparable? If that is the case, then which one should I opt for, when my goal is to get a good job in FO finance at graduation?
European programs are generally cheaper for EU students as those programs are subsidized by the higher taxes everyone pays. If you aren't a EU citizen (or UK) then you'll probably pay a rate comparable to US MSF programs.
Which you choose will depend on where you want to work and study and how much you can afford.
Is a MSF worth it? (Originally Posted: 10/08/2013)
I'm really considering enrolling in a Masters in Finance program but want to get a sense of its overall value.
For context, I'm looking to break into ER or research coming from a really solid financial journalism background. I'm a great researcher and actually got my undergrad in Finance, but get the sense that I need something more to get my foot in the door.
Do you think an MSF would provide the kind of lateral mobility I'm looking for? If not, what would? I'm also sitting for the CFA exams as well.
Any advice would be great.
Bump
MSF will give you the analytical ability necessary to transition to ER. I'm guessing you don't necessarily have that experience being in journalism.
It will definitely help for ER, if you are up to the task go for an MFE to distinguish yourself even further.
Msc in Finance - is it really worth it? (Originally Posted: 01/08/2014)
Hello all,
I am currently a undergraduate student of finance and accounting and I have been thinking for several months about if I should take, or not, a pre-experience Msc in Finance. The reason is that usually this programs have a duration of 2 years and I don't think that the benefit is worth the time.
My question is: if I go to work for example 2/3 years to a big consulting firm and then apply for a post-experience Msc in Finance in LBS or Oxford (example), will I learn more?
Thanks for your help in advance
Oxford MSc is a pre-experience program, and I'm pretty sure both programs are 1 year if taken full-time. The main purpose of pre-experience programs are to help you get a job. If you can get one without MSc, then there is no need.
You learn an infinite more on the job than at any school.
From Oxford website - average entrant has 2 yrs work exp
From LBS website:
Applicants must have at least two years, full time, relevant work experience (typically, participants have six - seven years relevant experience. Candidates with less than three years experience are only accepted if they can make a very good case why it is the right time for them to join the programme.
If you can get a top consulting job right out of undergrad then there's no reason to do a pre-exp MSF. If you work first and then do the post-exp MSF I can definitely see you getting more out of it, and your grades are likely to be higher as well.
How do you define a top consulting job? Is it in a company like Deloitte/PwC or McKinsey/Bain? Because what I really like is Finance. In the long run I'm aiming for the post-experience Msc to get into IB in London (I am living in Portugal).
Not at all, just curious why you'd take the extra step. BNP and Citi are fine banks and a great place to start a career in IB...how did recruiting go for you, any interviews? Also, what year are you?
Thanks for repliess by the way. I am a second-year student of a 3 years course (I think in USA courses are 4y?). Just thinking ahead and studying all my possibilities. I have still not met with any recruter but I'm thinking about scheduling or sending an interview by e-mail to major banks in the capital about what are they looking for at the moment. In February there is Career Forum at my university and I'll probably get more answers there.
Yeah, USA undergrad programs are usually 4 years. In that case you have some time. Best advice I can give you is get the best grades you can so you can hopefully get some relevant experience before you graduate. If you can do that successfully you should be in a good position for whatever path you may take- be it IB recruiting or MSF programs.
I'm currently waiting on a reply on a summer program abroad and I'll try to get an intership at a bank aswell so I can fill my CV with an internacional and a work experience. I am also a member of a junior company in my university and trying to get a certificate on C1 english level. What do you think? Am I going in the right direction?
Just to add a 2nd opinion: I think you should definitely try to reach out now to local investment banks or even London banks regarding summer internships. If you really want to know where you stand after your undergrad degree, then getting at least some finance internship after your 2nd year would help you tremendously. It also won't lower your chances for consulting. And then like kruzon said, make sure you keep on getting those good grades.
MSc Finance: Career Advancement (Originally Posted: 09/28/2015)
Hi,
I am currently in my final year of BSc Economics programme at London School of Economics (LSE). Last summer I did M&A internship at a Tier 1 bank and have secured a graduate offer, which I very happily accepted. At the moment, I have to choose my final year courses that will determine my ability to enter MSc Finance or MBA programmes in the future. Therein lies the problem.
During my uni years I realised that academia or public sector economics is not something I would like to pursue so I have abandoned the idea of doing MSc Economics. Therefore, I started contemplating a finance degree. Yet, I am still not sure if MSc Finance will be of any use further down the road in my investment banking career. From my very limited experience it seemed that majority of people in the office were fine with only bachelor degrees (I am not sure about MDs though because I did not have much access to their credentials plus those can differ because of different prerequisites that were key in good old days...). I am wondering if it makes sense to pursue, for example, MSc Finance after having worked in IB for 2 years - does it add any value and make any career advancements easier? What are the benefits in relation to opportunity & monetary costs? Does it extend the range of exit opportunities? Also, similar question re. MBA - do you think there are any key subject prerequisites I should consider at this point so I have a better chance to get into a good programme if I choose to? Also, how important / useful it is for career advancement in IB?
Thanks for your thoughts,
sO
MSc Finance will add little to no value in my opinion since you already have an offer. most people use these to get a job, but you already have one. Besides, how exactly do you intend to further broaden your opportunities right out of school if you're going to a Tier 1 bank?
Don't think your courses will matter much for an MBA to be honest. You go to a good school, presumably have good grades and have a competitive job. That should set you up well. Chill out
Should I get MSF to jump start my career? (Originally Posted: 02/07/2013)
I graduated with a degree in finance from a big 10 school in 2010, the job market was horrible and got a job in investment operations. The job was tedious and I felt like this position was not going to position me in a high finance career so I tried looking for something else. In the meantime, a family emergency occurred so I left the country for a year to take care of family obligations. Upon my return, I got a job at a big accounting firm on a temporary contract in the real estate group. I had other offers at small brokerages doing the same operational job, but I refused.
I want to get into equity research or fixed income. It seems like getting a CFA is key there, but would getting an MSF in addition help me get a clean slate for recruiting season? I seriously tried and network haard, but a lot of entry level positions at the top banks and hedge funds recruit directly out of school.
According to the job description, getting a masters is a plus, CFA a plus, so logically MSF + CFA would really help there.
I guess, the issue is cost. Luckily I lived at home and saved a lot of money while working. I was also lucky to bought a ton of apple at $250. So I could go into an MSF program with no debt, but would my ROI on capital and time be worth it? I want a job in high finance and would be willing to invest $60k in an education if it were to get me there...
Or can I get an analyst job without the MSF. I sort of think that the MSF will help jump start a career, or at least give you a fresh chance when you start recruiting season.
Read your blog - you are a genius investor.
I think MSF could help you if you havent had any success applying/networking
Non-MBA Masters in Finance: Is it worth it? (Originally Posted: 05/08/2015)
The short answer is yes absolutely. But that's not the right question.
The right question is "are the Master's seen as worthy by practitioners?" Unfortunately, due to much ignorance, practitioners do not value university education. Partly because we don't trust the university and the quality of education varies hugely university to university, student to student.
Recently I had a pleasure of teaching a new starter about portfolio optimization (MV). I enjoyed it, I always enjoy opportunities to share and refresh my memories. The person was intellectually curious and it was worth teaching.
But imagine you have to start teaching standard deviation, what it is and what it is used for. To get to the stage where you can talk about Black-Litterman, there are so many theories and concepts the individual has to understand.
If this individual had gone to university and did Masters in Finance, it would have saved a lot of time provided that the individual has actually learned the fundamentals of finance.
At business school, people try to learn Black-Litterman, but what they should actually be doing is to learn the basics of finance such as data manipulation on Excel (I have seen so many new starters who couldn't even get the "correct volatility" for MSCI World), risk analysis, regression, risk-return relationships, factors, algebra manipulation, introduction to probability theory (distributions). They need not have learned real analysis or stochastic calculus, for most jobs in finance, you won't be needing them. It helps if you understand them, but equally you don't need to know them to work in finance because finance is conceptual.
At business school, don't do anything difficult (or appear difficult). If you don't know what IRS is, but have basic understanding of finance, you can learn IRS in a day. If you don't know what "Red" is, don't worry because it is ridiculously easy to teach if you know the basics. If you don't know Black-Litterman (Goldman), we can teach you.
Still in the financial world, in investment bank, people believe that it is the bank's responsibility to teach new joiners. Quite frankly, they don't know how hard it is to teach the basics. It would be so much easier for us to filter out 15,000 applicants using the grades and relevant Master's qualifications. Most people in finance have poor understanding of finance, including practitioners with 30 years experience. They have gotten away with it. To this day, I have people who can't explain why we have duration on Bloomberg screen and they are on a 6-figure pay.
We absolutely do not want "smart graduates in any subject." I think that time has passed now. We have to acknowledge and accept the fact that financial knowledge demands some years of dedication and, without the necessary basics, you will struggle. This is where the business school comes in.
But the HR in investment banks remains ignorant and continues their "equality for all" entrance policies because they don't understand finance and their internal clients don't. They say some meth-related degrees. We absolutely should stop doing that. We need finance-related degrees. Finance is not mathematics, it is a lot more conceptual. It isn't applied mathematics as some starts say. It is the understanding part that is extremely difficult to teach.
At business school, engineer-turned finance professors continue with their misunderstanding of what finance is. They are some of those who feel content with some algebra and its manipulation. Let me emphasize, you have to think finance, you have to talk finance.
But I digress. The HR don't care what we think. They continue with their misguided understanding of what constitutes finance.
Let me repeat, it's conceptual.
This post is not applicable to M&A, ECM and DCM which I consider to be part of lawyer's profession.
How come you keep posting random topics and then never reply to comments? And it's probably best to shorten these if you insist on continuing to post them
business school and professors create target schools. Banks are not fools to just pick HYPS and others because they have a high fly ACT/SAT. They want people who are smart, challenged and ready
too many theories are from academics to the industry. enough said. besides, math is the home source of engineering, physics, math, statistics, computer science, and ECONOMICS, which is the theoretical side of Finance.
MSc Finance: worth it? (Originally Posted: 02/16/2018)
Hi monkeys
I am struggling to decide whether a MSc Finance is a good choice... let me explain my situation more in depth.
Final year econ student at a european non-target, solid resume with extracurriculars, good GPA and GMAT (>700), relevant work experience (boutique IB internship). I have been accepted to a top-tier MSc Finance program in Europe (think LSE/LBS/HEC), 2018 intake. However, I was also recently offered a IB SA position at a TIER 2 or 3 investment bank, strong in LevFin and Global Markets...
I would obviously welcome the summer internship, but am wondering whether the MSc Finance is still a priority for me. My goal is to break into IB, so by converting the internship I would have achieved it... Of course, having LSE/LBS/HEC on my resume would allow me to interview at TIER 1 banks and boutiques probably, but is it worth it, in your opinion? Would you avoid the MSc Finance and rather try to lateral eventually to a "better" firm?
Thanks!
You don't have to make a decision now, do you? Take the internship and recruit for full time to see how it goes. If it does not work out, you will have MSc as a backup plan. Just make sure that the tuition can be refunded.
Is a Msc Finance worth it? (Originally Posted: 09/21/2016)
Hi, I am an Italian Business Economics bachelor student and I am at my last year so I'm starting to think about my future the bachelor degree. I'm inclined to choose a Msc in Finance, but at the same time I'm scared of the future of finance, and overall banks. The reason of this is given by the previsions about the future automation banks will head to. Lots of jobs will be disappear, many of them will be replaced by robots, even in the field of finance and banking. Some people are suggesting me to choose a Msc in Management instead, in order to face these problems. So, now I'm torn between the two Masters. Therefore, what do you think about it? I would really love to hear the opinions of those who study or even work in finance. Is the Msc Finance worth it considering the further automation? Or should I go for a "wider" content, more generic master, so that I can expand my skills? I know I should do what I really like but I am really concerned about what the future will be.
finance has the typical IB, AM, HF, PE, VC type of "investing" finance, but they also have corporate finance, or Finance in Company within every organization.
Doing a MSc in finance will not stop you to apply to "management" roles whereas it might prove more difficult to apply to finance positions with a MSc in Management. The finance industry is really under pressure right now from IB to AM, it's tough to get in. So be sure that you have a true passion for the industry otherwise it may not be worth it.
Masters in finance after university degree for better job oops? Recommended? (Originally Posted: 02/02/2018)
I graduated university a year ago with a BBA - Finance. I spent 1 year in Spain and now am fluent in Spanish, but having issues finding the right position. Should I pursue a Masters in Finance?
Thanks for your help
Getting an MSF is basically like doing one extra year of undergrad to get another chance at recruiting. It's worth it if you need another shot at recruitment but if you're going to do it, do yourself a favor and go to a top program. They're not that hard to get into but once you play the MSF card once you can't play it again so shell out the extra dough if you have to.
Thanks for the input. That’s what i was planning to use it for. Any recommendation on program?
should I get a msf? (Originally Posted: 10/04/2012)
I graduated with a BS in Marketing in 2011. I started working in a call center for major bank in 2009. I've decided that I want to stay in the finance field and move into Wealth Management or Corporate Banking, possibly with the goverment as well. I've always wanted to go back to school. I am terrified to take the GMAT's because I dont know anyone that's scored over a 600. I have a 2.8 GPA, due to laziness. But I've definitely matured since then. I want to increase my financial knowledge and I have the business background to fufill the prereq's for the MSF, so I was thinking of applying in next fall. I am afraid I may be overqualified then, but I dont want to rush to start in 2013. is this a good idea?
I don't think you need an MSF to make a move to PWM.
Nope. You don't need a MSF to work in PWM.
well PWM is at the bottom of my list along with consumer finance, which is what I currently do. I can move into PWM now as my current company offers it. However, I am looking more into corporate finance or public finance
I think that you should evaluate your employment situation prior to making any commitment to a MSF. I don't want this to discourage you too much, but there are a few things you should consider...
If you want to do corporate finance (or any sort of private, non-consumer finance), you face a pretty big problem in that none of your experience in retail banking will help you get there. You lack a finance degree, as well, which would be fine except that you have a sub-par GPA. Your entire profile is far off-point, and you have to commit the next 2-3 years to changing that (one year for internships, one year for MSF, possibly more).
You're way behind the curve, and have to accept the fact that you'd simply be a bad hire without a number of changes to your resume:
You need internships. This is one of the few ways to break in to the field short of being offered a job upon graduation; I'm assuming that if you can afford grad school, you can afford to be an intern, unpaid or otherwise. You need to get rid of all your current experience and replace it with 2-3 solid internships.
The degree is important as well. If you decide to go the internship route to make it into CF or another area of finance, this will be a great addition to your resume (if not an essential one). Here is where you do the MSF: if you commit 100% to CF and go all the way to get internships and meet people that can help you (I assume you don't have an entry to a school with good recruiting due to the low GPA).
You need to show a commitment to finance. I'm sure that internships post-graduation and a MSF will go a long way in showing that, however it does not hurt to go through some training programs (WSP, etc.), case competitions (the CFA hosts one every year), or enroll in post-graduate finance clubs are your MSF school.
The best way to evaluate your viability as a candidate for any job is to understand what kind of position the hiring manager is looking to fill, and know what kind of candidates are available for those positions. The answer to the latter is the competition you'll face - little 20-year old Asian girls who just passed calc 4 at their ivy-league school. The answer to the former is what you want to target: "a qualified individual with credentials and experience that assert her ability to succeed in our business." At the end of this thought process, the question you want to be able to answer is "why would this person want to hire me?" That same answer is what you'll sell during your job hunt, and it all starts now, with properly crafting your new resume with internships, a solid degree, and connections through your activities and affiliations.
OR, you could go in to wealth management. Plenty of people do well there, and you definitely won't need to do any of this. On either path you take, good luck.
^^^thanks for the advice. I have been trying to see what PWM is like. My employer is allowing me to sit with someone on my day off. I don't have a super outgoing personality for a job like this, which is why I said PWM is at the bottom of my list. The company that I work with has commercial banking as well, so I do have the option to shadow someone in that area. I didn't want to stop working until I started a MSF program. So the shadow option is very appealing to me. I know that Vanderbilt has an internship program that begins prior to the program. I'm fully aware that it's competitive. There is a local program in my city, I'm counting on being accepted there as it's part time and is one of the best schools in the region. Although I know it won't carry much weight if I decide to relocate. That's a gamble I'm willing to take.
29y.o. MSc is worth doing? (Originally Posted: 07/23/2017)
Would really appreciate your inputs.
Intention: to improve my job search option. Background: consulting and 1 internship at RBS. Both long time ago. After that: extended "gap year"
bump
wow, how elaborative )
I don't want to come across as a dick, but your written English is likely not good enough for a UK bank. Also, at 29 you'd be old for an analyst, try and network your way in. I doubt, but can't really weigh in one way or another that a Russian degree is unlikely to have much weight. At my firm it would not.
no, you're right.
I initially wrote a long waterfall without checking my grammar.
My school is target for international IBs, too - a lot of alumni gets internships/offers from abroad, depending on their language skills.
I know, age's my problem.
1) Would experience in IB in Moscow look fine on my CV? If I get a job in Russian IB, then I'd do EMBA in European school and switch to associate abroad.
2) If I can't get IB offer here, would valuations department of Big4 look ok on CV to break in IB after EMBA?
Thanks!
Is a Pre-experience MS in Finance valuable for landing a job more easily ? (Originally Posted: 11/15/2017)
Hi. I am currently pursuing a Bachelor of Science in Finance and Accounting. Do you think that getting a Master of Science in Finance right after graduation would increase my chances to secure a good entry-level position? Do you believe it would have any benefits on my paycheck? Would it be a good idea overall knowing that a good MS in Finance costs between $45,000 and $70,000? Thank you.
Cepeda, way too quiet in here. What about these resources:
More suggestions...
You're welcome.
Considering MSF to break into finance (Originally Posted: 01/10/2018)
I am 1 year out of undergrad, graduating with a 3.3 from a non target top 50 school. I am looking for feedback on if an msf from either Baruch or Fordham would help me land in banking, assuming I can get a 4.0. I have relevant internship experience in a PE firm and also in corporate development. I couldn’t find a good finance job out of school and was forced to get a non finance job (data analysis) to make a living. Would going to another non target school be a waste? Or could the possibility of rebranding my GPA be worth the time/money?
3.3 isn't horrible. Assuming you got a good GMAT score, you'd be competitive for a lot of top MSF programs. Especially with the PE and Corp Dev internships and your data analysis work experience.
IMO, I would continue to network. A year in data analytics and you could switch to F500, credit at a bank, something along those lines.
Take the GMAT, see where you end up, then start comparing options.
Is a MSF right for me? (Originally Posted: 04/10/2013)
I am currently an officer in the US Army. I am considering applying for MSF programs as I transition out of the service.
I already have a Master in Public Administration. I am interested in working in public finance or for a management consulting firm, but am open to other areas as well. I do not have a strong interest in working for an investment bank, however.
I would be 28 years old at the time of matriculation and am currently looking at American University in DC or Boston College.
Am I a good fit for MSF programs? Will my MPA be viewed as a negative? Will my age and lack of work experience hold me back?
Thanks in advance.
I don't think it would be helpful. But, if you decide to go that route, go BC. American's program has younger students.
Thank you for the info. Could you go into more detail about why it wouldn't be helpful?
Why not an MBA?
An MBA would keep me out of the workforce for an extra year and I already have a general administration degree.
I will start my MSF program in the next several months, so I am no expert, but why would you do an MSF? An MPA is not an MBA alternative. My dad did several years in the military (LTC), and just from talking to some of his buddies that went on to business school and then MBB, GS/MS, etc., MBA business schools">M7 schools love military experience.
Good luck, and thank you for your service!
EDIT: Check out MSFHQ.com and contact TNA (Anthony) on here. He is our MSF expert.
You're a much, much better MBA candidate than MSF candidate imo. Just do the finance track and take a bunch of finance electives. Two year MBA would also give you a chance at interning after the first year. And most of the applicants will be closer to your age. And you would slide in at the associate (or comparable) level post MBA. And you're an officer in the military which is a huge plus that would essentially be a waste if you went for a pre-professional degree. What is your GPA range/GMAT/projected GMAT if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for the input. My undergrad GPA was a 3.6, grad was 3.7.
I have never taken the GMAT but I have taken the GRE. I took the thing basically cold and scored around 85% percentile on verbal but only around 60% for quant. I'd project that I score in the 660-680 range on the GMAT.
I'm not sure how competitive I'd be for top MBA programs with this score. UVA would be my top choice followed by Georgetown. Is military experience that much of a bump that I could get into a top 25 b-school with these stats? I am under the impression that it is not. I am looking to work for a management consulting firm.
http://poetsandquants.com/2012/03/27/gpas-gmats-what-you-need-to-get-in…
Your GPA is solid for all top 20 programs and you'd be within the GMAT range for most of them as well. If you can bring it to 700 or so you could prolly aim for MBA business schools">M7. Look, i'd wait for advice for people more knowledgeable about MBA admissions, but given what I know there's not a chance in hell i'd do an MSF over an MBA at age 28 with:
-3.6 -say, 680 -A military officer (officer!!)
You'd be closer to the age of other people in the program, you wouldn't be wasting your officer (officer!!) experience, you'd have a chance to intern, and you'd come out of it with a higher paying job at a level where others are closer to your age. What i'd do in that situation:
-Pick about 2 programs in the MBA business schools">M7 that aren't HSW (reaches) -Pick about 3 programs in the 10-14 range -Pick about 2 programs in the 14-20 range
With your stats and resume you can almost certainly get into a better placing MBA program vs MSF program. Again, wait for people more in-the-know to respond, but you seem like a terrible MSF candidate and a fantastic MBA candidate to me at first glance.
Ms Finance landing a trader job (Originally Posted: 04/29/2007)
I'm a recent graduate with EE undergrad degree from Rensselaer polytechnic inst. and a Ms.Finance from Univ of san francisco. I'd just like to know if it's possible to land a junior trader position in BB or Buy-side firms for me ? Since my school is non-target school for IBD, for S&T, is it gonna be likely ? I mean, how do they recruit trader at entry-level, does my background fall into the category ?
How does this following career route looked upon: buy-side research analyst -> BB research analyst -> BB trader -> hedge fund PM ? I know this route looks somewhat weired, but to land a trader job at BB fresh out of school isn't easy for non-targets. Yet the traning and income at BB for research analysts are more valuable than buy-side funds at entry-level. It's a meandering path to get to BB for the traning and experience, then switching back to buy-side for the lure of HF. Please throw your comments at this. Thanks.
recruiting is done in the fall
you are way too late
I'm talking about next year.
if you've already graduated, it's too late. if you haven't graduated where are you interning this summer?
I'm interning at a buy-side mutual fund this summer. does the proposed route above sound reasonable to most ppl ?
MSF Jusified? (Originally Posted: 03/30/2012)
Since everyone here is finance minded and know a bit about numbers, I need to ask how an MSF can be justified. I'm staring at an admissions package for a top program and after living expenses and books its about $70,000 for the year. With no scholarship programs, this will entirely financed with loans.
I know the average starting salary may be double what I make now... but how can this be better than working 2 or 3 more years and getting an MBA in finance? I figure it'll take another 2 or 3 years to pay off that 70k so by the time I would be ready to take an MBA, I would be back to even...
I don't think its about the salary, it's more about the opportunities that are now open to you. I'm using this as an example, but if you work F500 for 4-5 yrs and then do any MBA that is fine and I don't think you'd have a problem breaking into IB as an Associate [happens all the time]. However, at that point you've never had experience in PE in a pre-MBA role; therefore, you may be excluded [or make it much more difficult] to break into PE after your Associate role. So, if you went and did F500 for a year then MSF you'd be positioned to do an IB role at a BB or MM firm and after that analyst stint you are ready for PE just like everyone else that didn't do an MSF. Post-MBA you'd have an option potentially to skip having to do IB again and jump straight to PE. So I think it's more about the different options that you are presented with versus salary comparissons; though obviously your earnings are tied to your employment.
But honestly for me I can't stand the thought of having to work my F500 pos. for a minute longer than I have to and want to go straight to IB.
I am with this. You cannot buy back time. Venture into what you want when you are young. Everyday will be a torture if you go to work knowing that this is not what you want in the long term.
For me personally, I worked 18 months in a shit job that didn't have the exit opportunities I was looking for. I am using the MSF to "rebrand" to entry-level IB/ER positions because I wasn't qualified or ready for an MBA right now and it would be a waste of my time.
Plus, as you mentioned, it seems almost essential to get the IB/PE stints done pre-MBA as it seems to open up a lot more doors afterwards.
Full disclosure, starting the 'Nova MSF in 1 month.
MIT is completely justified.
Depends on your opportunity cost, obviously.
lol only programs I know with costs that high are MIT and Princeton, these programs are extremely worth it unless you have a good job already set up (opportunity cost).
Yeah, I would not do a full time masters unless it were MIT or Princeton right now because of the psychological pressure to get a new job in this environment.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/14/pf/taxes/tax-unemployed/index.htm
watch the video at around 1:22 mark
thanks for the inputs, I got into WUSTL, BC and Nova, and i have an interview for Claremont
focusing on placements so I think its WUSTL vs Nova?
Personally I think WUSTL and Nova have very similar placements. What are you aiming for specifically?
You spelled "Juicified" wrong.
Should I do an masters of finance? (Originally Posted: 05/31/2013)
I finished a finance major, accounting minor from the UofA in Canada this April. I graduated with a 3.4gpa, 3.7 in finance courses. I did not get a chance to work an internship over the summer, I have 0 applicable work experience and I am currently unemployed. I'm writing the CFA I tomorrow.
I have no job, and I am not even getting interviews for personal banking jobs at retail banks. I did get an interview for a mid-market commercial banking manager associate position at one of the big 5 but I did not get the job. This hasn't been for a lack of trying either. I started applying to job 2 years ago, and I've had my resume and cover letter looked over multiple times. I did fail 3 times at school before I started to do well again and a lot of internships would have only seen 1 or 2 years of good marks so I think that was a hindrance.
I feel I did a very poor job padding my resume and networking while I was at school for my undergrad and I almost feel like I want to go back to school to try it again but this time do it right. I'm thinking a masters of finance program might give me the opportunity to try for a decent job in the finance field.
It's too late now to apply for anything this year, so I have 1 year to find myself a job. Say hypothetically though, I only do get a job working as a personal banker for a year. Well if I can't network into at least a commercial banking job come time to apply should I consider going to school for a masters of finance program? Ultimately I don't want to be doing commercial banking anyway, I just throw that out there because as of right now I feel it's the only job I have a chance at. Could a masters of finance program at a better school open more doors for me? I ultimately want to work in Canada so would say going to a good masters of finance program in the UK even be worthwhile? is my only real option now to write the CFAs and cold-call/network to try and break into a good job in finance?
Thanks, any guidance would be appreciated.
You should do an class on grammar instead of an masters of finance
I've been told to contact headhunters a few times. I've just googled headhunters and emailed my resume to all the ones that come up. Is there any specific ones or a list of headhunters?
Your best bet is to contact a headhunter and settle for a corporate finance job
Would a Msc in Finance and Private Equity be useful for someone trying to get into PWM in an investment bank (Originally Posted: 09/22/2013)
Or would a Msc in Finance and Investment be a better option? or would a Msc in Banking and Finance be the safest option
Thanks x
Any better suggestions would be really appreciated.
From what i understand, all those LSE degrees have essentially the same recruiting (exception might be the full 1 year risk program)
Would an MSF Help? (Originally Posted: 06/10/2016)
I hate to post new threads with similar questions, but I'm having a really hard time deciding a course of action and would love your input.
Just graduated from a target Ivy with a 3.5 as a STEM and econ double major. Am about to start up at a small family office (mostly doing asset allocation and FOF type work). Pretty sure I'll like the job, but I've always wanted to get into IBD or do more analytical work in ER. Problem is my work experience is very weak. Only really have a pub fin internship at a regional bank sophomore year and some unrelated research work in school (realized too late a phD isnt for me).
In this situation, would an MSF help me transition into an IBD/ER role given that I already have a strong alumni base to tap into? Or should I try to network in and prepare to go for an MBA if that doesn't pan out in a few years?
First of all, the term "target Ivy" is pretty redundant.
Second, I have friends who've come from non-target schools that transition from something like Commercial Banking into Investment Banking. It's just a matter of how you use your network. And considering you're from an Ivy, network shouldn't be a problem. Build a good rapport with whoever, wherever, whenever you can.
So forget the MSF. Do well in the family office for a couple years, and then reach out to alumni or someone from your graduating class.
After rereading my post, I figured someone would call me out for saying that.
Thanks for the input though. It just feels weird not really doing anything except slowly compiling a list of contacts to reach out to in a few months.
Most banks are cutting their IB units, a trend which is unlikely to change over the next year when you would graduate from a masters program. So I would learn as much as you can at your job and network.
That's something that's been being said a lot around these forums and it's super worrying. Given the consolidation that will continue with a looming recession, how difficult do you think it'd be to switch over after a year of work?
Should I get a masters in Finance (Originally Posted: 05/26/2013)
Hi Everyone, So I just graduated with a degree in economics. I do have a job lined up at a boutique consulting firm (mainly working with tech companies doing project management). What I really want to be doing is working in Asset Management. I was thinking about applying to a MSF school for fall of 2014. Is this a bad idea?
Or should I do my CFA level 1 in December. I was hoping to work in finance after graduation but never got an offer.
I've heard a lot of the lower tier MSF schools are not worth it. I would love to work at a HF or become a portfolio manager one day but obviously i need to go to the right school.
With a year in consulting, great EC's (varsity athletics, student government, etc), 3.2 gpa, I'm confident I can score well on the gmat/gre (whichever I'm suppose to take) but do I have a shot at the top tier schools? how high do i need to score? Is this even a good idea?
Take the job and get some work experience. I'd take the GMAT since it is good for good for five years and you might want to do an MBA later.
You do well on the GMAT and then you have options.
IMO, with your profile and a year of work experience, I'd say you'd be competitive at the usual suspects (Vandy, wustl, nova, OSU, etc) with a 660-680. Your GPA is a little low for MIT/Claremont.
Keep in mind this is just a first impression. I don't know your full profile, but this is my impression with limited info.
try to be careful dropping nova, some poor monkey might end up in Fort Lauderdale
try to be careful dropping nova, some poor monkey might end up in Fort Lauderdale
Linkedin stalk analyst from firms you would like to work at. I'm sure a few have completed MSFs. Also, check out MSF websites and see what companies recruit from them.
Worth Starting an MFin Application? (Originally Posted: 10/03/2013)
Hi All,
After taking a look around at several of the well-known and marketed MFin and MSF programs, I'm thinking that this might be the best option for me to break out into finance. However, I haven't started any of my applications yet - do you think it's worth putting in the effort at this point, given some of my statistics?
Profile: 2012 Graduate of Non-Ivy Target (Stanford/MIT/Duke/Berkeley) GPA: 3.5 in Math Spent the year after graduation teaching abroad in Europe Conducted microfinance credit work and started a non-profit in a developing country Did a computer science research internship as well
Other than that, I have many soft ECs as well - many student government and activist type roles, but few that I could leverage for business or finance related. However, I really feel that finance is the field for me and I would love to do something kind of quant heavy.
Given that I study my ass off and get a 700+ on the GMAT on Nov. 25th, what do you think my chances are for the top programs (Princeton, Sloan, Vandy, LBS), or what other schools should I look at applying to?
You will have a lock on Vandy (plus scholarship), a reasonable chance at MIT, and Princeton is a crap shoot so who knows
Thanks for the input!
Finance master, worthwile ? (Originally Posted: 01/15/2016)
Is it worthwile to pursue a masters in finance ?
I'm facing with the option to go to Bristol and Nottingham undergraduate economics next year which will put me on track right after undergrad in investment banking.
I also have the opportunity to go to Bocconi University Economics and Finance undergrad. program (in English).
By chosing Bocconi, I'm forcing myself to do a Master after undergard. Is it better ? Wouldn't it take me 2 years of investment banking experience I could have had chosing Bristol to Notts ?
Thank you for your eventual answers, I'm really struggling to see the best choice...
You'll have a better shot at investment banking coming from Bocconi than from Bristol. Nothing wrong with doing a master's, being a student is way more fun than being an investment banker (especially with the weather in Milan). Also if you don't wanna do a master's per se, you don't have to do one as a bocconi undergrad. Plenty of people in banking with only a bocconi bachelor's.
Another thing: you haven't even started university, please don't limit yourself so soon to a career in banking. University is about exploring.
First, I would like to thank you for your fast reply.
I know I want to do Finance for several reasons that I won't explain to you here, but if I told you you would understand so trust me.
Have you ever been to Bocconi or studied there ? (It's very hard to find information about their bachelor programs)
Bump.
Bump.
Can someone give me is point of view ?
Bocconi has a formidable placement in London IBD. I would say top 3 schools.
Can't comment on the schools themselves, but given I'm only a couple years ahead of you, I can give you some insight. Like radiohedge said, don't limit yourself to only investment banking. Explore other options (CS, other finance jobs, what the fuck interests you), and network/put yourself in a place to succeed in IB recruiting.
In two years, you might already be in a great place to land an IB job you want, you might also have found something else that really interests you, or you might want IB and are not in a position to land what you want. In the last scenario, going to grad school makes the most sense. Just work hard once you get in, and make decisions about grad school/full time in a couple years when you'll actually have enough info about your life to make an educated decision.
By putting in simple terms, I've been reading so much about Finance in the last 5 years that I feel that the more I learn about this field, the more I want to work there and learn more. And I don't want to study CS, I'm tired of seeing bankers get insulted after 2008, you can make as much of a diference in Finance as in Tech, and probably even contribute more to the world. I am sure "greed" is also present in tech.
In anyway, I would like to thank you for your reply.
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