Do Looks Matter?
How much of an influence do Looks have in a person getting into finance?
If a man has a strong jaw, tall in height, prognathic chin, Thick brow-ridge, deep set eyes, Low rise Hairline etc etc....will he fair better than a short male who is say balding?
How much of a role does Physiognomy play in hiring practices?
Maybe, but since you are not able to change your phisiognomy significantly unless you are thinking about surgery why would you care about it?
Shave your head.
This
Studies have shown it does subconsciously influence hiring decisions.
Ask Lloyd Blankfein
It's human nature to choose the better looking person than the other when they both share similar credentials. However, for some people, better looks can make up for the lack of better academics.
Yea bro, survival of the fittest. You got to stand out academically, physically and socially.
3
Obviously looks matter, but only to a certain extent. Play the hand you're dealt; the best that you can...gym, wardrobe, grooming, friends/network, personality (especially if you're a sterotypical quant/programmer or whatever).
We don't hire Neanderthals.
Unless it's a client-facing role, no it doesn't matter too much. Make sure you have good personal hygiene of course; dress well, be kempt and clean, shaven, deodorant, etc., when you show up for interviews.
It doesn't matter if it's client facing or not. The person who looks better has an edge. Reducio ad absurdum: If a tranny came in to an interview, I don't care how far the LGBT community has come, he/she will be judged beforehand.
Like everything else...depends on the interviewer. Some people are very shallow and care about this. On the other hand, your interviewer could be ugly himself and tend to discriminate against good-looking people. You can be judged on your looks, just like you can be judged on what school you went to, what car you drive, how hot your girlfriend is, how much money your family has, etc etc. Depends on who is interviewing you.
A girl got through our recruiting process who I thought was dumber than a box of rocks, but was quite good looking. The weirdest part was that the ladies in HR were pushing her harder than anyone else.
Not related to hiring, but if someone looks very young for their age, it is sometimes harder for them to be given more responsibility than would otherwise be true, because it's just harder to take someone who looks 22 years old seriously compared to someone who looks 32, even if they're the same age.
So true and that's a fucking pain...
Graduated really early. And looked young for my age on top of that. When I was interviewing for SA spots, I could have passed for 15 no problem.
I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting more offers...I was always making it past the phone interview, then getting dinged in-person despite nailing every technical.
I know people who got in JPM PB, GS, Credit Suisse, UBS, Wellington and they all had one thing in common: a well-built body.
Getting in shape is probably the most important part.
You can't get un-ugly, but you can always lose the love handles.
Looks seriously don't matter. I lift 305 incline on my bench and dead lift close to 500, fairly good looking guy and I am 6'1, think this matters? Of course not, realized this after getting dinged after 4 super days. Seems like the traders loved the pansies that were coming into interview from targets who lacked all of the testosterone in the world. Just matters on how good of an interviewer you are and what school you're from. I really thought I was a fit, guess not.
You got dinged because you don't squat you pussy.
j/k..... don't hurt me
I vented, forgive me.
I literally got off a networking call with an alumni on Thursday who discussed with me for 30 minutes of the importance that being in good shape, clean shaving, etc, wearing tailored suits, hermes/etc. ties, polished shoes, yadaya. He said that these banks will cut you for anything because they have so many applicants, so don't let it be something like that.
I didn't know whether this was really good advice, or if the guy was a complete d-bag. Still haven't figured it out.
OP you've gotta be at least a solid 8/10+ in order to get a BB IBD FT offer these days.
And we're talking inches here :P
For IBD you need to be able to TAKE a 9-10 incher without flinching.
^ Both
This is so stupid. Do looks matter? Sure, all else held constant the guy/gal with better looks is probably going to get the job (unless the decision is in the hands of a sexually aggravated female manager who has something against good looking women or if you're a guy perhaps you look like her ex-husband) but it's no different than any other arbitrary attribute that could keep you from getting the job. Fabio with a lisp is probably going to lose to Mr. Magoo without one, for example, so it's impossible to put too much weight on looks compared to any other superficial characteristic.
And while that kind of crap might matter at the entry level where you're virtually interchangeable so managers can pretty much make the decision on something as random as "he gave me a funny feeling", once you've actually gained some seniority in your career all that matters is how much you pull in for the firm and how well you augment the team you're on.
Lloyd Blankfein Steve Schwarzman John Thain
Only exception to the "Do Looks Matter" answer being a resounding NO is of course Ben Bernanke - in this case being an ugly Jew is actually more important than any other qualification to being Fed Chairman.
They do, but we like to pretend they don't.
Looks (your facial structure) are somewhat important, but not even close to the extent they are important in dating. Ugly face is unlikely to get you dinged on the spot, unless it was an interview for a sales job in cosmetic industry. Dressing well and grooming well are very important for landing a job, but would only marginally help you in dating. As for fit - unless you are morbidly obese or an obvious roid monster, you should be fine on a job interview.
P.S. OP, are you from PUAH forum?
Also, I would think that looks and height do give an edge for promotions, and for career progression in general. I used to volunteer for an organization that held events for C-level execs and Board members of mid-size and large public companies. The attendees at these events were significantly taller and better looking than general population. I am of about average height, but I felt like a dwarf there, so I went to buy 3 inch shoe lifts after the first event :)
etherlord, how tall are you?
5'9''
Looks matter to a degree psychologically. How you present yourself matters just as much and is under your control.
If you're interviewing for finance, yes? Its so obvious that looks matter in all the front office roles. There are so few bad looking people precisely for that reason. Unfortunately, most people tend to be extremely judgmental, especially when you're talking about the bulge brackets.
I think there's a line between:
Right? And from what I have observed, it is the latter that matters.
Does it matter? You wanna be on the top of everything, you better do some reality check: Just look over and over again at the hottest trio I personally pick: Paulson& Schwarzman &Blankfein
Good looking finance guys are everywhere in ny. but those young fellas won't go any further beyond scoring some Gossip Girl type UES chicks at best. In short, they won't make to da TOP. Counter examples are very welcome
Dreadlocks are highly encouraged.
How important are looks in Investment Banking? (Originally Posted: 03/25/2007)
Will it affect how far you can rise?
Are people who are not "classically" good looking allowed to pitch? Is it common or only once in a while (Bruce Wasserstein)?
On bankers ball I read that being able to lay a lot of girls was a key component to success?
So what are your thoughts, future bankers?
yeah i agree bruce Wasserstein is only ugly mofo. he's probably the only one though everyone else in IBD is cast of proper genetics that have taken generations of planning.
and any child that has flaws are thrown off a cliff
the spartans would have made good ibankers.
I am Spartan (not the Mich State kind), so thanks for the compliment.
Looks in terms of cleanliness are more important than being attractive. If you are well put together, groomed and not hideous I've found that you tend to do more client facing activities.
Agreed. Make sure you shower every day even if you get 0 hours of sleep.
Looks help in ibanking just like any other profession - there's plenty of research that shows that attractive people in any profession earn more. But, if you're a plain guy BUT very presentable (i.e. well dressed, well groomed) you will be fine. No one expects you to look like Brad Pitt - this is ibanking not Hollywood haha.
I think looks can help even more for females than males though. The pretty girls from my schools seemed to fare extraordinarily well in ibanking recruiting. Although, I think that's largely a result of most of the interviewers being male and thus (perhaps subconsciously) placing more stock in the females' looks. I believe you'd see the same result if you (a guy) were interviewed by a women - that is, if you're very goodlooking, she'd like you more.
Ugly people suck
Haha no. I just wasn't trying to be overly blunt.
if you're not a stud, you'll be an analyst for life. clients don't want to look at an ugly md or d.
How much do looks really matter anyway? (Originally Posted: 04/26/2014)
Posting after having a few speculative discussions with my own friends and noticing some related chatter on the site.
When getting hired/on the job, how much does being a physically attractive (woman) help?
Seems most (in my honest opinion, all) of the girls I know who got into finance are very good-looking. On the flip side, I'm hearing from the grapevine that the most disadvantaged demographic in finance is plain women. Your thoughts? Just curious.
Attractive people are generally more confident and probably better at networking and interviewing.
jury is not out on that one
if we're just talking about investment banking, the sample size is a little small it also depends on if you're talking about the USA or other countries i myself have definitely noticed that better looking girls get into IBD, but perhaps its correlation rather than causation after all, maybe these girls just put a lot of work into their career, just like they put a lot of work into maintaining their looks 'effort' is not restricted to certain traits or qualities
i've heard the arguments for and against: - pretty girls are at a disadvantage, because female interviews are jealous of them - pretty girls are at an advantage, because male interviews want them at the firm for eye candy
in the end, i think you'll never come up with a definite answer
Any truly good looking person is rare. Models, actresses and actors, and everyone whose appearance is their main asset is genuinely rare, hence we sometimes even see models and actresses that aren't very good looking without behind the scenes help.
In every day life, "good looking people" just means people who take care of themselves and make sure to be well groomed, carry themselves well and have a pleasant presence. These are all qualities that help enormously in business. I think that anyone who thinks a woman made it into IBD by virtue of her looks alone is bitter.
There was a study that showed that good looking people (both men and women) are typically more persuasive and well liked by others (can't remember where I read it though). I don't know if male interviewers hire pretty women for eye candy or if they think these women are genuinely smart and a good fit, but I think that physical appearance did have a subtle factor in the decision making and the candidate's likeability.
Cool, interesting to hear your insight. After recruiting season you hear all sorts of bitter stuff, one instance being guys accusing girls of having it easy and vice versa. Just wondering if there was any substance to the monkey shit exchange haha
Of course, in absolute terms I reckon being physically "ugly" has never kept a highly competent person of any gender from becoming successful.
Sorry if this sounds sexist...but sometimes girls do have it a bit easier. From my experience and the banking girls that i know, we felt that we were grilled less harshly by male interviewers. It was the complete opposite with female interviewers though lol.
Haha no need to say sorry, I can see how that could happen :/ especially between guys I guess there'd be an abundance of dick measuring contests masquerading as interviews too lol. Wonder why female interviewers would go hard on other girls though, always thought it'd be advantageous to the ladies to have more female representation in the office...
It's valuable being a scarce resource (ie a woman in this case).
how important is attractiveness? (Originally Posted: 12/04/2010)
Is it me or are most traders/bankers above average looking with that said, how important is attractiveness(for males and/or females) when it comes to getting a job, especially in a client facing role
I GOT TO LEVEL 999 EATING CANDY. DOESN'T MATTER THAT I'M FAT- YOU JUST HAVE TO GET THIS GOOD TO PULL IT OFF. I WONT TALK TO AN IVYSAUR WHO WEIGHS MORE THAN 3 ELECTRODES.
it's overrated. attractive people tend to be more sociable because they tend to get more attention, invites to parties etc that helps their social skills. but if you are an average looking guy and you're just as social as someone way more attractive you're not at much of a disadvantage
The most important thing is to be clean. I really can't stress that enough. That and dress well. I don't mean fancy or expensively, but don't look disheveled and be neat.
KNOW SOME MADD WEIRD LOOKING SQUIRTLES IN FIRST YEAR. JUST MAKE SURE YOU WATER GUN ONE ANOTHER TO STAY CLEAN. BUBBLING ONE ANOTHER COULD WORK TOO. JUST DONT USE BUBBLEBEAM BECUASE THATS WHEN IT STARTS TO STING.
ven check your pm
ill check your MOM
TACKLE!!@!!!!@#$@$@#!#@%$
YOU FAINTED!@!@$1
I use body slam you can't beat me bc you use used rare candies and i started from 0
:(
EVEN A BROKEN CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY
I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME
Holy shit. Did someone say FUCKING LOSERS.
Sorry. Really, though.
I guess it's just great to be a white attractive male in the U.S.
are you upset you can't relive your childhood? was it painful? dont be sad. here's a pikachu!
I was a beautiful child - of course I'm upset.
It is always nice to have a few fat, smelly, sweating, dudes with bad hygiene and bad manners in the office. That way, us skinny, attractive dudes who take good care of our hygiene look better to the women and get laid a lot more.
That's literally a woman's strategy.
It's definitely an advantage if you are good looking, but it's not a disadvantage if you're not good looking and it's certainly not a pre-requisite. It is, however, important to be clean and well presented, as posted earlier.
I wouldn't agree that most bankers are above average looking. The way a lot of guys look is the product of being an athlete on campus or smashing they gym during Undergrad. Given that banks are full of Type A characters, it follows that most of them are in good physical shape. However, banking hours do not lend themselves to keeping yourself trim and fresh-faced.
During my last internship the only birds that you'd look twice at were secretaries.
This has been discussed from a couple of angles before. There were a couple of studies that found that attractive women might get unfavorable treatment from HR, while attractive men get better treatment. On an aggregate level, research has shown that good-looking men do a little bit better than men who aren't good-looking, but on an individual level - i.e. what your attractiveness will do for your career - it's meaningless (hell, look at Kravis). Especially in a field like finance where your performance can (usually) be quantified, how much money you bring in is 1000 times more important than how good looking you are.
Good looks is always an advantage in any role that requires authority, influence and client interaction.
i'd say it def. can't hurt
As a woman it can hurt or help you.
It will hurt you if you don't know the fine line between attractive and sexy. It will help you if you do. From my experience attractiveness helps with clients but that doesn't mean you have to be hot. I have a friend that is short and not that pretty but when we got out she works the room like no one else. She has a firecracker personality and knows how to present herself so she gets crazy attention. I have another friend that is gorgeous and could be the next VS model but is shy and doesn't know how to present so she gets no attention. A smile and good posture can carry you far in this life!
Learn your best looks, work with what you got, and develop your personality. One liners go extremely far as icebreakers. Don't be afraid of awkward situations, embrace them and use them to challenge yourself to excel in any social situation. Attractiveness might help get you an edge, but in the end, it's all about what you got personality wise. Anyone that thinks beautiful women get carried through jobs is delusional. They can get carried all right, but only so far, and after that they are forever dependent on someone else to keep going.
wow... well said "Don't be afraid of awkward situations, embrace them and use them to challenge yourself to excel in any social situation."
How attractive is importance?
How "looks" play a role in your job? (Originally Posted: 07/19/2014)
Do you guys have any good stories of how attractiveness played a role in at your workplace? It can be how you guys treat each other, who got what job/promotion, etc..
I know that this ideal has been widespread, but I meant any crazy extent to which this has played a role. It became an issue at my place since I found out one of my co-workers is dating my boss. I could understand how in highly technical environments this factor plays no issue.
Thanks!
Yeah true about your impression of technical environments, but even in finance you have to dress appropriately. At PWM firms in particular (especially BB), they just might consider looks when interviewing for client-facing positions... it's only natural to do so though
sorry, this is just wrong. PWM only cares if you can sell. you can be a complete dumpster fire but if you can sell, PWM wants you.
Refreshing thread
I'm a tall, fit, white male. So I've always been paid more than peers, I'd like to think its because of my good looks and height. Might be because I walk on water, its hard to say.
Check your privilege, friend.
(not srs)
Dude. Your probably the guy that cleans my garbage can at 5 o clock
Bump. I'm just an outsider college student looking into the industry, and I definitely seem to notice a strong correlation with "attractiveness" and SA stints (seemingly negative correlation with intelligence, however).
Google Lloyd Blankfein, Bruce Wasserstein, Pete Peterson, David Tepper, Steve Cohen, Guy Hands, Larry Robbins...being successful in finance has nothing to do with looks.
First, dating a co-worker is usually very frowned upon and dating a direct report is a good way to get fired quickly. That's a little different than how attractiveness affects the work environment. Your boss is being an idiot.
I couldn't tell you how many psych studies have been done about this because there are too many, but of course attractiveness affects everything work and non-work related. It's been shown that people like to interact with better looking people male or female, even if someone's not trying to get into the other person's pants. It doesn't mean that a moron who looks like a model is going to cut it and advance or make the sale or whatever, but people subconsciously prefer to interact with attractive people. I have a very good friend who started at a boutique out of undergrad, direct promote to associate and was probably made the youngest MD I've ever heard of and he's a very good looking guy (both my wife and mom have said he's hot). He's extremely hard working and smart but when you get to the upper levels of IB it's about sales and bringing in business, and while he's worked for it, I'm sure subconsciously he's won business because he looks like what people think an investment banker should look like based on what they look like on tv or in the movies.
I've also seen younger attractive women get treated less harshly than guys and non-attractive women across the board. Finance is still a male dominated industry and it's just more difficult to yell at a hot girl than it is an ugly one, and I don't mean that in the sexist and horrible way it comes across. It doesn't mean the boss is trying to get the young attractive woman in bed, it's just the way it is.
I'm sure there's also a confidence aspect to it from the attractive person. An attractive person has probably been treated well his/her whole life. I doubt they were the kids who were bullied, they didn't have problems getting boyfriends/girlfriends, they were the cool kids, etc. leading to a higher level of self confidence. Self confidence means you're going to be someone who's not shy in the workplace (or in life in general) and be willing to go out on a limb more than someone who has low confidence.
I sort of disagree...I think he is trying to get her in bed on a subconscious level, in his mind, but demographics and circumstance prevent him from taking direct action, so he ventures the indirect route by yelling at her less than she deserves, and other such stratagems. I think if she had a big sign on her face that said she will never ever sleep with the boss even if he is the last man standing on earth and she is blackout sloshed, I'm not so sure the boss will be so emotionally accommodating.
Definitely agree with you. Generally i think its just the confidence aspect. Seen plenty of people that arent necessarily attractive, but just confident and have conviction that succeed.
why did you put that word in quotes? do you know how quotes work? you're "retarded"
I work in corporate sales for a tech company (Google, Apple, Salesforce) and I can tell you there are a disproportionate number of good looking guys in my department (no homo), while the engineers are average at best. (Side note: I wonder if physical attractiveness and intelligence are negatively correlated. Maybe good looking children don't need to develop their brains as much?)
The girls I work with tell me they spend extra time every day putting themselves together, are constantly nervous around the more senior salespeople, and frankly it shows - the women here are consistently better dressed than the men and are always quieter during group discussions.
InsecurityOasis
I've always thought it was a confidence thing, and confidence is important in all walks of life: business, romance, etc. if you're attractive it's easier to be confident than if you were unsightly, but the 2 don't always go hand in hand. I had several classes & group projects with a girl who was a miss teen pageant winner, as close to a 10 as I've ever met in person, and she was one of the most insecure people I've ever met. confidence is the name of the game, looks just make it easier for that to happen in my opinion.
You're right, superficial qualities play a large part in one's success. Studies show the taller you are, the stronger your chin is, the stronger the jaw is, the more symmetrical your face is the better people react to you (in fact the political candidate with more of the aforementioned qualities tends to win elections). Discrimination against shorter/ugly people is the last socially acceptable form of discrimination. No matter how successful you end up you'll always be that ugly or short guy to people. Just look at guys like Jay Z, the guy is worth 500million+ yet people are still calling him ugly or camelface left and right People will judge you both consciously and subconsciously on things you have no control over, this is why it is imperative that you do all you can to maximize your looks.
One of our PMs just walked by in pink short shorts and a Bears windbreaker.
The only thing you can do is maximize what you've got. Maintain your skin, work out, develop a decent wardrobe, and overall be aware of your appearance. You may never be "hot" or have girls/guys throwing themselves at you, but its a lot easier to go from a 5 to 6 or 6 to 7 or even 4 to 6 and a 10-25% increase in looks goes a long way.
I was guilty of letting myself go senior year and the first six months or so after. Since then, I've really made an effort to workout 3-4 times a week and eat much more healthy - the effects have been really noticeable. Obviously, you look better, but the confidence is the biggest thing that rolls over into so many aspects of your life. Whether its girls, work, socializing, or whatever. Its not the whole package, but its definitely a significant portion that contributes to more success.
Looking attractive, being well dressed, and well groomed leads to feeling well about yourself. Having a positive self-image will lead to a confidence that others will detect, aka carrying a certain presence when you enter a room. Confidence and a positive self-image breeds success in every area of life. Being visually appealing certainly plays a role in success, however the self-image that can result from being visually appealing is the most important factor.
I definitely agree with others that it isn't a "looks" thing so much as looking good leads to greater confidence. I remember former Virginia Tech CB Jimmy Williams saying to an ESPN reporter regarding their new uniforms: "You look good, you feel good."
There are several morbidly obese guys at my office who are fantastic at their jobs as they bring in great business. I think competence and confidence go a long way. All else being equal (which is rare), being good looking helps on the margins.
As far as work in concerned I think the biggest factor is how much you can make your coworkers life easier. I mean, who doesn't like to hang around models all day but if they add to your workload and don't take initiative they are unlikely to get far. In sales, etc, you can leverage your looks for sure but still you gotta do the work
Fact is dress well but just don't be over the top until you're super senior. Looking like a slob i'm sorry tells me you've got zero standards.
I often think Bill Gross only got to his position with his good looks.. not fair.
There are also people in every line of business who feel that attractive people have 'had it too easy,' and reflexively refuse to hire/do business with/give preference to people blessed with above average physical attractiveness.
Do undesirable physical attributes affect your chances at recruiting? (Originally Posted: 11/22/2014)
Some people say as long as you can bring in cash, you're in. However even unintentionally, to what degree do you think being fat or short would affect your ability to land a job in IB?
Maybe it could subconsciously? But I don't think anyone will actually say "that guy is fat/short, we won't give him an offer" - especially if you're talking about a job at the analyst level, where you're not really bringing in business.
Besides, lots of MDs aren't the best looking/in the best shape when they are middle aged and up
At entry level, you're not bringing in any cash. You're working long, thankless hours preparing models and pitch books.
I'm more likely to believe that someone who is reasonably physically fit is better able to cope with that lifestyle and also has the self-discipline to handle the lifestyle. I'm less like to believe someone who is overweight meets either of those criteria. I suspect most people would have the same conscious or unconscious bias.
For post-entry level, it changes and the focus is on what you can do for your level.
Once you're a rain maker bringing in deals, no one cares what the hell you look like and there are plenty of overweight MDs.
Sure it can and that's just a fact of life. It all depends on who is interviewing you. If the group has a ton of athletes do you think they are more likely to higher the D1 athlete or the introverted excel robot? Luckily for everyone there are tons of different types of people in banking and you should be actively seeking out the ones that are most similar to you when networking.
Never seen a ginger banker.......just saying
stephanie ruhle was a md at DB before she went to bloomberg
I actually got at least one interview because a ginger said they didn't have enough other gingers in banking.
A close friend of mine works at a multi-billion dollar hedge fund and he's a ginger.
Apparently there is a lot of bias (unconscious) against fat people when it comes to recruiting.
I will say I haven't met any super ugly bankers
holy shit misc'ers really are the most insecure bunch on the internet.
What does this have to do with personal insecurities? Never said I was either things posted in OP. Are you denying that appearance is relevant in high finance?
appearance is relevant in all aspects of life, but I think you should take care of yourself for a reason deeper than IB recruiting. self esteem, being attractive to the opposite sex, being able to pick things up and put them down, the list goes on and on. if your natural appearance isn't modelesque, who cares? most of the world is ugly, but if you are healthy and have confidence, you can fool a lot of people.
There's a study on this actually - thinks it's by N. Gregory Mankiw (econ prof at harvard). His (and others') findings were that taller, more beautiful people get better jobs, get promoted, make more money.
Makes sense, I've always made more money than everyone else, now I know why.
With being tall and beautiful often comes the knowledge that you're good looking which translates into confidence. People like confident people, people who are liked get better jobs and noticed when it comes to promotion time.
I could've told you that without doing a study. Where's my PhD?
Nobody likes a fatty...just saying
It's not the fact that you may lack a few desirable traits...it's the fact that you are aware that you lack them and are unconfident and self-conscious and subconsciously feel inferior. This trickles down to the way you talk, walk, and interact with your environment. Then you go into an interview and of course you bomb it.
It certainly helps to have desirable physical attributes. Look into the halo effect and notice that most CEOs are above 6ft tall. If you have undesirable physical attributes, you'll have an uphill battle getting to the top and as others mentioned above, people have some preconceived impressions of say unfit workers.
I think it's a chicken-egg scenario. I think people with desirable physical attributes often have more confidence. I know two very successful morbidly obese individuals, but they exude confidence and charisma and competence. I think if people exude the best personal qualities despite their looks then the looks become irrelevant.
let's be honest. there's bias.
I'm kind of split on this. As much as I hate to admit it, I have a few less than stellar physical attributes, and yet I've had very little issue with recruiting. I was hired into IBD right out of college, and I've switched careers multiple times inside of the financial services industry and I've had no real troubles at all--in fact, after I interview my chances tend to be pretty high for a job offer. This includes recruiting from hiring managers who were both male and female. So my personal experiences don't bear it out.
On the other hand, it's always better to be better looking than not. But I can imagine it being a bell curve--dressing well and looking good can help you to an extent, but the exceptionally good looking men I can imagine would actually have trouble in recruiting. Just speaking honestly but I wouldn't be hiring a guy with super model good looks lest my wife or my employees' wives are tempted away during an office party. I always believed I was just good looking enough to get any job but not so good looking that I threaten my boss.
I totally agree with you on this. Being too good looking for a male could be a problem. Also, being good looking only goes so far; if you dont know your shit you wont be given the job over the ulgy guy that does. For a female, I think being good looking would only help, especially in the male dominated world of finance. I believe a hot girl that does average in an interview would definetly get hired over an ugly girl that nails it. This wouldn't happen for a guy.
I’ve never heard anyone admit this. It does well to partially explain group dynamics. That's, unpleasant.
I'm biased against hiring people who are 'too' good looking on these two rationales:
RATIONALE 1: BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE ARE LAZY IN BED AND LAZY IN LIFE - If you're good looking, you can trade off those looks both socially and to get ahead in many situations - Even if a person is naturally smart, most people tend to subconsciously negotiate with the world on the path of least resistance - So if that person can get what they want by either (i) looks or (ii) harder work, most likely they'll take route (i) in many situations or, at least, a substantial number of situations - For example, think of good looking teenage girls who get into in shallow looks-based cliques largely because they are good looking - So I suspect that someone who is good looking is probably more intellectually/socially lazy and has lower disciplined than someone less good looking, all other things being equal
RATIONALE 2: BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE BASE MORE OF THEIR VALUE ON THEIR BEAUTY - Someone who is good looking has likely been told that many, many times - So, at least at a subconscious level, being perceived as being beautiful is a large part of their sense of self - Other things being equal, a beautiful person is more likely to base their confidence on their perceived beauty and is more likely to be more sensitive to reductions in that perception - Beauty depreciates fast in your professional life - Other things being equal, a beautiful person will lose confidence as they get older, will spend more time in front of the mirror
All true things about beautiful people, but there is one loop hole to judging beautiful people: They were not hot in the past.
People who were ugly in the past may have learned to work harder and smarter, and then they learned how to dress post-high school or post-college, so they are now pretty because they present themselves well. Looking good means you're smart enough to at least LOOK like your shit's together.
Judge the fatties not the hotties bro. But I will say that super duper hot people are rarely ultra-successful or take on any job that requires a high amount of intellect.
Fat = no bueno. Perceived as sloth and lack of self control/discipline. Definitely hurts recruiting in my opinion both conscious and subconsciously.
Short isn't as big of a deal, maybe more on the subconscious level but not at the forefront.
Pun intended ?
Whether you like it or not, your appearance is the first impression people have of you. Make it count - if you start behind the eight ball, it's tougher to get in front.
Although look, I imagine you'd just want to fit in wherever you interview. I don't think every group in every bank on the Street exclusively hires former D1 athletes (although I know of some who have leveraged their sports background to connect with their groups and get offers, which is a different story).
I generally agree with most of the points in this thread though. Look presentable.
I only hire >9's on the hot scale, and
Everyone says no, but no one really means it.
A lot. I know from personal experience.
My username should be FatShortIdiotKid, but you get the point.
The rules for guys: Be attractive Don't be unattractive
The rules for girls: Be plain jane for HR screen After HR screen, same rules as guys.
The rules for guys on WSO:
Stop being such insecure pussies
haaaaaa agreed.
haaaaaa agreed.
haaaaaa agreed.
How about this as a rule: Hire someone good looking but not better looking than you.
Winner.
Height and weight is really less of an issue as long as you are at least healthy-to-moderately-fit.
There is all kinds of employment/HR psychology about facial symmetry, the golden ratio, and other superficial features that are easily found with a simple Google search.
The BIG thing you won't hear a lot about (but is pretty obvious), is that people prefer to work with people who don't suck. People with positive attitudes, average-to-high energy levels, and above-minimal health and hygiene. As long as you shower regularly, keep your head and facial hair tidy, and maintain a healthy lifestyle, it is hard to turn people off superficially.
People who exercise regularly generally are more productive and have a better mood/more energy throughout the day. People who maintain a good diet have more energy, better mood, and probably at least an acceptable body type. i.e.) not morbidly obese or anorexic. People with good hygiene are pleasant to be around, have more self confidence in their appearance which comes off to their peers and supervisors as a better attitude in the working environment.
Conversely, People who don't exercise are often lethargic, tired, and generally down in attitude. People who don't maintain a healthy diet have less energy, can get sick often, have superficially poor health (weight gain due to fat) and can even have significant acne or oily skin, or poor body odor due to sodium intake and other components of processed food. People with poor hygiene are not pleasant to be around and come across as sloppy, which can give your peers and supervisors the idea that you have the same habits about your work.
A lot of these things come down to discipline, and while an unhealthy person might have enough to get them through the door, companies are investing in people who have longevity based on health and the ability to fit in with the culture around them. Showing discipline in personal habits shows traits that will likely cross-over to your work.
Besides, ever since high school, have the grimy, unhealthy kids ever been the all-stars?
It isn't about being 6'0" and looking like Bradley Cooper. It's about being a healthy person with a positive attitude and good energy in the workplace, and it's hard to do those things if you're overweight and out of shape.
The upside is that they know you haven't gotten by on your looks?
I was a runway model. Needless to say guy hiring managers weren't to impressed by it
You can reduce the title of this thread to:
"Are human beings influenced by appearance?"
What a stupid question. Everyone knows the answer is yes.
Here are some better questions:
Why is this on the front page?
What happened to all of the regular writers (Braverman, CompBanker, IlliniProgrammer etc.)?
Where is Patrick?
What is happening to this site?
I'm jealous of people who are short and fat You can always argue you're a combination of Dan Loeb and Leon Black
I was always told that it didn't matter how fat or skinny, short or long you were. I was informed that all of that could be hedged by the motion in the ocean...
Yes
Attractive Women in S&T (Originally Posted: 07/18/2007)
I've read in previous posts that there tends to be a bias towards women in the sales side of S&T. Assuming the candidate is just as intelligent, personable and knowledgable about the markets as a male candidate, do you think the woman more likely to get hired for the sales position if she's exceptionally good looking?
Do you find that there are a lot of attractive females that fill the sales positions at the best desks? How about women as traders?
Just kidding, but there are less the higher you move up the food chain, at least in the Bank I was at. However, these days, the younger analyst classes have more and more women, so who knows in a decade.
Most of the women in sales are attractive. Some banks go with the hot female strategy more than others, but at least in my firm, this is absolutely the case. The sales women are actually better looking than the HR women.
Some sales chicks are ot. But most are minging. HR use to be full of hotties but not always the case. At my firm there are a few hottes in sales and a HR girl who is just superhot. Legs that go all the way up and a tight ass you just want to squeeze. I hear she is at it with a senior guy in the bank.
Do you factor in Physique when looking at a prospective intern for IBD? (Originally Posted: 08/07/2012)
First post here, been creeping all summer at my internship that just finished today. Don't really know how to phrase this so here goes.
Does being pretty fit matter when it comes time for interviews? Will it help my chances/get a good chuckle if I put down my bench on my resume?
I've been wanting to ask this question just for the hell of it. Not really expecting serious answers lol. Troll away at a new chimp.
No but if you're a hot chick people would probably push for you, or if the interviewer is female and you're a hot dude maybe that helps too?
hell yeah!
Don't put it down on your resume, but yes it does matter.
haha if only I was a hot chick, though we all know statistically I'm not. Maybe ill walk into my interviews flexing hard with a tight suit that'll have strategic cut ins to rip easy.
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