PE vs. IBD

Is compensation really that higher? Are the hours really less?
What skills did you learn in IBD that you could use in PE?
Do you regret your decision, or not? and why??

Private Equity vs Investment Banking

Private equity and investment banking both have their own sets of difficulties.

Private equity is generally more of an in the weeds, due diligence role. Most of your time is spent working on projects, understanding companies, industries, and doing fundamental research.

The duties:

  • fundraising
  • Screening and making investments
  • Managing investments and portfolio companies
  • managing exit strategies

Investment banking is fundamentally an advisory role focused on transactions. It has a rigid hierarchy and involves a high volume of deals to generate fees.

The duties:

  • pitchbook creation
  • modeling
  • administrative work

Recommended Reading

 

I just transitioned from IB to PE.

Putting hours and comp aside, I personally think PE is more interesting. Are you the type to dig into the smallest of details (down to the serial # of a printing press during diligence) or would you rather see volumes of transactions? If the former, PE may be worth a try. If the latter, stay away from PE.

As for skills, you do learn to model just about anything under the sun in investment banking. Some MD, somewhere, will come up with the most absurd analysis and you will have to model it. At any rate, LBO and merger models are probably the main takeaway from banking from a pure mechanical perspective.

In terms of critical thinking, because you are pitching all the time, you tend to learn, for example, what type of companies should have higher EBITDA margins.

 

PE much more interesting, no question

I have worked in both, below are few reasons based on my experience

My take on IB In IB, job is CLIENT SERVICES-related. While IB analyst programs do provide some great learning opportunities wrt finance, working in professional environment, etc., vast majority of time is spent on mundane tasks related to formatting and pitching ideas, while putting very very little thought/depth into work product. Basically, IB analyst work is always labor intensive and not often thought intensive. You will learn a lot, but would estimate that during a 2 year analyst program, >70% of what you learn occurs in first 6 months. In addition, IB has rigid hierarchy (e.g., teams of 5+ people, with anyone above VP level in "read-only mode"). Hierarchy can be useful in first few months when learning the job (e.g., great to have several people who you can go to when you have Qs), but after you figure out what you're doing, the inefficiency of this hierarchy is brutal / mind-numbing

My take on PE In PE, while mundane tasks still exist, much smaller % of time is spent on these vs. in banking. Instead, in PE, nearly 100% of time is spent working on projects that are related to making money for LPs. Much more of your time is spent trying to understand companies / industries and doing deep fundamental research. There's some of non-investing work in PE, but this largely relates to managing people (e.g., in PE deal process, you will need to manage all of client service providers, including IBs, consultants, lawyers, etc.). Also, lots of time spent managing portfolio companies as well (e.g., attending board meetings, creating budgets, mgt compensation plans, etc.). Overall, work in PE is much more autonomous - e.g., you are paid to come up with your own views, people don't want / don't have time to check your work, and you need to speak up. Work is much more difficult and much more interesting, in my experience

 

Thank you @"mrb87" .. some posts actually are similar to what I think, I mean: - If comp is the reason: it gets higher also as a VP/ED/MD level too, and some BBs spoil their MDs big way - Hours: they tend to be great from what I read for EDs/MDs, as a VP you start doing 9am-8pm which makes your life considerably better, and MD work is different, it's more about a management role, internally (with VPs associates etc.) and extrenally (clients) Am I missing something here? what do you guys think ?

 
Maxx Faraday:

Thank you @mrb87 .. some posts actually are similar to what I think, I mean:
- If comp is the reason: it gets higher also as a VP/ED/MD level too, and some BBs spoil their MDs big way
- Hours: they tend to be great from what I read for EDs/MDs, as a VP you start doing 9am-8pm which makes your life considerably better, and MD work is different, it's more about a management role, internally (with VPs associates etc.) and extrenally (clients)
Am I missing something here? what do you guys think ?

I don't think you read the thread. People who left PE, and there are lots of them, generally hated the work.

 
SHORTmyCDO:

is comp really better in middle market (where most IB analysts end up)? I mean compared to staying as an A3 or getting the associate promo?

Also interested. Are the majority of the great numbers that are quoted coming from people at MFs?

"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
 

Is it just me or is anyone else tiring of all the one line, making absolutely no point and significantly irrelevant post that people are coming up with?

It seems like every single thread I read has a number of them in there. Granted some can be humorous from time-to-time but they are getting rather annoying.

At any rate, I don't have an answer for the OP's question but I would like to see any of the serious responses.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
cphbravo96:
Is it just me or is anyone else tiring of all the one line, making absolutely no point and significantly irrelevant post that people are coming up with?

It seems like every single thread I read has a number of them in there. Granted some can be humorous from time-to-time but they are getting rather annoying.

At any rate, I don't have an answer for the OP's question but I would like to see any of the serious responses.

Regards

The OP has been consistently posting stupid threads, thus the "one line, making absolutely no point and significantly irrelevant post that people are coming up with". With answers like this maybe he will stop. It seems like the fact that many of his posts were closed is not enough.

 
EuropeanBob:
cphbravo96:
Is it just me or is anyone else tiring of all the one line, making absolutely no point and significantly irrelevant post that people are coming up with?

It seems like every single thread I read has a number of them in there. Granted some can be humorous from time-to-time but they are getting rather annoying.

At any rate, I don't have an answer for the OP's question but I would like to see any of the serious responses.

Regards

The OP has been consistently posting stupid threads, thus the "one line, making absolutely no point and significantly irrelevant post that people are coming up with". With answers like this maybe he will stop. It seems like the fact that many of his posts were closed is not enough.

My apologies, I've been busy as of late, haven't seen the OP's other threads and was unaware of his behavior.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Lol it's funny how much people care about this guy. You're giving him exactly what he wants no doubt. If you want to make a difference just ignore his threats. Don't whinge like a little bitch.

 

Private Equity has zero prestige. Everyone knows that the only people that go to PE is retail bankers who can't handle the pressure of working from 9-5. Psh, hacks.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I'm thinking of great as $180-200k all-in as a 1st year associate after 2-3 years as an IB analyst. Is this realistic at a MM fund? Or if it's one of those situations where it just depends, what is the typical range of comp for 1st year PE associates at MM funds?

Thanks for any insights.

"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
 

@"mrb87": I have actually read teh thread, was very intersting, and yeah you're right, they didn't like the buy-side environment, and some even say that pay isn't really that high when compared to IB, and as I said (which answers @"Generals2" s question) pay gets high "enough" to lead a great life after 10 years of Ib once you're a VP, and by "great" I mean making maybe 200k$ a year, bonus aside .. I kind of reached that number assuming that a 1st year analyst has 75k bonus aside, a 1st year associate 100k bonus aside, that would be a 25% increase every 3 years (at least in my opinion), so sounds legit if a VP reaches 200 .. I have no idea how senior bankers earn post-crisis ..

 

+1 for you GotBushels, but only if we start a very personal relationship

"The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state."—Kenneth Boulding
 

zhao zong- it's very hard to give advice on this question without knowing more about the two offers. Is it M&A at a top BB, an elite boutique or a random ass mm bank no one has heard of? What about the PE firm, obviously with 6 billion they sound pretty legit... but is it general or specialized, etc?

My gut reaction would be to take the PE job if the firm is solid and that's your ultimate goal. But obviously if the M&A is at a top bank w/ great M&A, that could change things hugely.

 

Do whatever the hell you want. I don't get people coming on here and asking others to make decisions for them. Figure out if you want to specialize in the sectors / products that the PE firm or IB work with and go from there.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
 
xfzhao:
megafundguy:
Unless its Cerberus, this guy is B.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_equity_firms

There aren't many 6bn PE firms that are HQ in NYC.

pls check individual PE website and you'll see how this info is wrong. you would expect KKR has only $31.1b? But i can tell the PE I mentioned is indeed on that list, somewhere at the bottom

The PEI list (which is the source of the linked data) is generally reliable/considered definitive but only includes LBO, mezz, and venture capital funds. It won't include hedge funds or non-PE asset management arms, which most groups on that list have. The list is also outdated (as of 2007). It's also worth noting that there are multiple ways to calculate PE AUM, depending on whether you include funds that have returned capital, whether you include funds that have been raised but not yet deployed, etc.

Anyway, as to your question, if you're interested in buyside work I'd go with the PE job. If it's a firm on the top-50 list, they'll probably have liquid strategies as well plus you'll (hopefully) be able to skip past some of the BS that comes with being a junior person in a huge company, especially in banking.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

As someone who has done both MM PE (IB at junior levels here are some things to point out:

*A large number of MM PEGs have relatively young partners and your chances of actually moving up past associate are slim *There is so much dry powder in the PE world right now that actually getting deals done (thus getting true deal experience) is tough *From my experience pay in MM PE (IB at least at the junior levels *In MM PE you are hand holding portco management teams and you will often act as their financial analyst for remedial projects or proofread their work daily *MM PE really depends on the firm's partners. Do they care about actual valuation? Do they want you to grow and move up?

In conclusion, at least in MM PE, don't have stars in your eyes. It really depends on the firm, investment strategy, and upward mobility. PM me if you want more info, but this is my 2 cents.

 

Think of bankers as real estate brokers. Think of PE as real estate buyers.

You take out a mortgage, buy a place, and then rent it out, using rent to pay down the mortgage. Then you hire a real estate broker to sell it again, hopefully at a profit.

Five ways to make money:

1) Your rent can be slightly higher than the mortgage payment, so you extract a small profit each month. This in PE is called a management fee.

2) As your mortgage gets paid down, you own more of the house. Your equity increases.

3) Legitimate businesses should grow, as real estate values tend to grow as well.

4) If you can improve the business, it's worth more. Sort of like fixing up your bathrooms and kitchens.

5) Mortgages, like debt, are deducted pre-tax. So you have a tax shield benefit.

 

^thanks. I was watching mad money (yes i know it can be quite an idiotic show) and it was talking about how the PE guys want to buy cheesecake factory b/c if it goes private there's more money to be made. so basically ibankers create the terms of the deals and the PE guys are the ones making/negotiating the deals.

 

Better money, smarter people, better hours everything in PE. The real difference however is principal v advisory. Banking is an advisory play, you have no principal involved you just try to get PE shops to do what you think is good for them with their money. You pitch to PE shops and strategics. You help everyone else do refinancings etc. In PE, it's your money, you get comped based on good performance of the fund (carry). You get pitched to by all the stupid ass bankers. At the end of the day its up to you on where you think the credit markets are for PE, but hard times in PE are hard times for bankers as well.

Long or short term you will make more in PE. Long term banking is being someones bitch and PE is making other people your bitch.

Think about it.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 

First suggestion: be VERY careful about going into PE right now. It's blowing up, I tellz you what. If you think it's going to be as high-flying in the next couple years as it has been for the last several, you're in for a rude surprise. Not to say that there might not be belt-tightening at the banks as well, what with the credit market jitters and impending recession (a couple years out, fingers crossed but still once every decade, like clockwork) but there won't be quite the degree of pink-slipping.

 

Just for a little clarification, PE has lost momentum because liquidity has dried up in the secondary markets for high yield debt. Slowed PE translates into dampened LBO activity - moreover, sluggish debt markets translate into less M&A across the board.

These effects aren't limited to PE. To the extent that PE takes a hit, one would have to be very ignorant to believe that IB won't eventually share in this pain.

 

Thank you guys for your valuable opinions. I agree that pain will be shared by both.. perhaps more by PE.. referring to today's WSJ article which talks about how strategic buyers gain at this stage compared to PE..

About me: I am working for a small PE firm with 200M under mgmt.. b-school - top 20.. but not ivy! current markets..

Well, i have always been a long term investor.. so dont choose to look much on short term.. however, this one we cannot ignore completely as it might have a huge impact.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i believe that above matter, but what matters more is how you fit well into either..

So, if we are looking at comparing side-by-side the characteristics to succeed in a particular career.. what characteristics wud they be? and how different for the PE and IB?

Thank you guys for prompt responses. C.

 

or is PE going to take the brunt of the liquidity dry up?

I found the comment above that 'one would have to be very ignorant to believe that IB wont eventually share in this pain' interesting since it didn't elaborate much but I think is absolutely right...

 
  1. No.

  2. Whenever you can.

  3. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do.

  4. Politics are important, especially in smaller organizations.

  5. Depends on the deal.

  6. You develop some good skills and sometimes even get your voice heard. Many PE people take leadership positions in portfolio companies.

 

So first off, in the interest of full disclosure I will note that I worked in banking and consulting before but have not done anything full-time in PE. However, I've (ironically) helped friends get PE jobs and have seen what they do pretty thoroughly. I also interviewed for PE, though in the end I decided to move in a different direction.

Anyway, in response to your questions:

1) The lifestyle upgrade is not as great as most think. Yes, it's better and you generally work less but there are always busy periods. That said, you do get to do more "meaningful" work (less grunt work) in most cases.

2) Most would say after you've finished up in banking. Delaying/doing something else hurts your chances.

3) Are you referring to why people stay in banking? In some cases, they just couldn't get into PE or anything on the buy-side; in other cases, they actually like what they do and have been doing it too long to make switching a viable option.

4) We all answer to someone. But yes, in general PE is higher up on the pecking order because they don't have clients in the same way bankers do.

And politics definitely play a big role - keep in mind a lot of PE firms are small and thus very personality-driven. Partners have to convince everyone of the merits of an investment they want to pursue, so relationships are key.

5) As TabulaRasa said, depends on the deal. There's always a mundane part to DD, but if you're working in a more unusual situation (i.e. distressed deal) parts might be interesting.

6) Some PE guys move into industry, but I think moving up is more common than moving elsewhere.

You do learn some valuable things, but in terms of operational knowledge there's no substitute for experience. Keep in mind that if you are interested in learning how companies work, the best way to learn is to go work at one.

 

Just an aside: It's always funny to me to see kids say things like "I'm going to go into banking, then get a PE job, then boss bankers around." As if, as a 24 year old pre-MBA associate, you really have the ability to talk downward to a senior level banker. The same mentality goes for young bankers/PE professionals and their demeanor towards lawyers ("yeah, our counsel messed up the numbers so I was yelling at him all morning"). I'm sure you were, tough guy.

We're all business associates. We need the bankers just as much as they need us. Oh, and does anybody else hate the $100 dollar max gift policy? Everyone at my firm has embroidered Tumi breifcases, luggage, etc. given to them by the likes of UBS and Lehman from back in the day...

 
GameTheory:
Just an aside: It's always funny to me to see kids say things like "I'm going to go into banking, then get a PE job, then boss bankers around." As if, as a 24 year old pre-MBA associate, you really have the ability to talk downward to a senior level banker. The same mentality goes for young bankers/PE professionals and their demeanor towards lawyers ("yeah, our counsel messed up the numbers so I was yelling at him all morning"). I'm sure you were, tough guy.

We're all business associates. We need the bankers just as much as they need us. Oh, and does anybody else hate the $100 dollar max gift policy? Everyone at my firm has embroidered Tumi breifcases, luggage, etc. given to them by the likes of UBS and Lehman from back in the day...

Real talk. Anyone who gets a God complex from their job needs to take a step back and realize how dumb they are. Sitting on conference calls, running numbers all day, and writing memos is not something that should give you a sense of superiority.

 

I dont talk down to anyone (and I never will out of respect for others) but I have as a 25 year old associate given plenty of orders to senior bankers. The buyside is quite different than any type of services industry and I can see people (even junior guys) taking advantage of their role as the "client". At the end of the day all groups play an integral in the deal process and are valuable.

Internal ascension is really contingent upon firm culture.

I agree that people should not let their job define their character and any type of success is relative anyway.

 

I would personally go PE. It all depends on whether or not you like what you're going to be doing. Some people just use banking as a stepping stone for PE, so if that sounds like you go PE. If you legitimately enjoy banking and would like to work sell-side first, then bankings the bet. Although I'd imagine that the PE lifestyle is probably slightly better and the pay would be similar.

 

I'd go with the PE. You'll "save" two years and you can easily jump ship to another fund if they do not promote you.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA
 

I would suggest to also take into consideration (i) (expected) dealflow and (ii) office location / setup for the decision, e.g. likelihood of closing 2-3 deals in 2 years as BB analyst vs. 0 deals in PE, as well as London / (regional) headquarter location vs. "satellite" office for either firm as these have strong influence on overall experience and exit opportunities.

 

Go PE, fewer seats and better experience in this situation. If they just raised 2-3 bn for their latest fund, it is barely MM and you will be doing lots of investment and valuation work for targets.

You will be doing lots of work either way, but you already have modeling experience, so in my opinion you don't need to do the risk averse thing here.

 

Have to go PE.

If you can secure a product group offer (M&A / LevFin) at bank, that would be the better option. Working in product group for couple years will give you access to better PE firms / buyside opps than what you're describing. It's actually easier to recruit for these opportunities from banking (rather than smaller PE firm), because there's such an established pipeline. That being said, the risk of failing to secure one of these opportunities from just an industry group probably sways the answer towards the existing PE firm. A large piece of this depends on your academic profile as well... If you have a top-tier academic profile, it will make it much easier for you to recruit out of banking.

 
Best Response

Have you not gotten strong deal experience? I would think you would be in a better position to switch from MM PE to a MF than if you go back to IB. I'll caveat that I'm not at a MF, so I don't have direct insight into recruiting for those spots.

Because so many people on this forum are interested in going MF, I think people tend to over estimate the likelihood of getting an MF spot as an Associate out of IB. It's highly likely that you leave MM PE, go into banking, have a rough year or two, and then find yourself back in MM PE. Only now you've probably lost a few years.

I would go the route of contacting head hunters. I'm assuming since you went straight into PE out of undergrad, you have friends who are on the banking scene. Reach out to them and ask to be introduced to the head hunters that are contacting them about buyside opportunities. I can't see why a head hunter wouldn't be interested in talking to a kid with a couple years experience on the buyside already. Story could be different if you are at a really small fund that does not have a lot of brand recognition in the industry.

 

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I don't think there is one right answer to your question. Someone with more experience could give you more color, but I interviewed with several of the firms you listed and other PE funds. I ended up taking a banking offer where I liked the people at an EB (think EVR/MoCo/Laz/CVP). I think the best way to approach it is to go for the best opportunity that presents itself to you during recruiting.

If you are thinking about BX and SL, I am assuming you are a fairly competitive student at Wharton.

You will find that people that are successful generally work hard to put themselves in the best position to get lucky when opportunities present themselves. I was looking at the Forbes 30U30 list and there are always a few spectacular cases of people who are just on another level. One of those people who is now a partner at a large hedge fund started at Silver Lake as an analyst out of school.

Also, not all of the firms you listed give full-time offers. Oaktree, for example, does not and the summer internship (located in LA) is only a summer internship regardless of performance. If you really want to do investing in the long-term think about what type of investing is interesting to you and how you can position yourself best to end up at that firm. You really can't go wrong with those jobs and I would advise you to figure out the return offer rate, do some research on LinkedIn and figure out what people do after those jobs and if those exit opps are what you are interested in and then make a decision of if you want to do PE or IB out of college.

 

are you kidding...

1)principal 2)have to create value in a company to realize profits 3)much more about learning about industry and company and their operations, working with management 4)dig much, much deeper

those are some good reasons (people will bring up arguments against these: PE is just financial engineering, etc)

Honestly, I can see how the why ibanking question might be difficult for some people, but the why PE question is so basic

 

Undergrad Advice,

Which PE firm are you talking to? I'm pretty sure Blackstone PE already filled their 3 FT undergrad spots.

One of my little brother's friends is going there. I thought they already gave out their offers.

Silver Lake, middle market?

 

Do you think there will be any significant difference in the exposure and type of experience you'll get at each respective place? Also, are there compensation differences that could potentially factor in?

I think the decision also depends on your prior internships. What sorts of things do you already have on your resume at this point (PWM, another small PE, etc.)?

Also, is there any difference in terms of deal size/deal flow between the two firms? A place with more deal flow would a) make sure you get good exposure during the summer, and b) increase the likelihood of an interviewer being familiar with the firm during recruiting next year for you.

 

Give us more info about the two firms. How many transactions does the PE firm make a year? Do they have a specific industry focus? Are they a typical LBO shop, a longer-term acquisition group, a VC or growth equity-stage firm? Will you be cold calling bankers to get deal flow or working on analysis of potential targets?

What type of deal flow does the IB get? What type of transactions do they focus on? Also, industry or geography specific? Does that align with your preferences?

 

collegebanker:

probably slightly more exposure at the IB. i really have no idea about general experience as i dont know anyone who has interned at either. comp differences would be minimal at most, the IB is offering (possibly negotiable) $10 an hour and i have to cover living expenses with that so its a break even scenario. the PE is likely unpaid; they dont have a formal internship program. I have BB PWM on my resume as well as some assorted research and leadership stuff. like i said the IB is probably slightly more active.

peinvestor:

PE will make ~1 transaction a year (as in buying a company). very small regional shop, both of these places have 5 or so employees. No specific focus, long term acquisition oriented. No cold calling but will probably be doing some research and analysis work. the IB is also small, they don't list specific dealflow on their website but probably 5 a year, all

 
ChrisHansen:
Yes, but not many specifics. any particular reason why PE would look better on a resume even though i want to do IB?

To be honest, both choices are going to have relatively the same impact. But, if you want to be at home where you save on rent and get to see family, friends, etc., then the PE shop makes more sense.

It sounds like the dealflow of the IB shop is probably sporadic and MM deal flow has been tight so far this year, compared to the past few. There are tons of PE funds looking for transactions and far fewer sellers right now. So, that could be a downside to the PE fund.

But, if you flip it around, the PE funds are getting more aggressive and looking at more deals, even those that may be out of their "wheelhouse" (larger or smaller than normal, different structure, different industry focus, higher customer concentration, lower growth, etc.).

The good thing about working for the PE shop in my view is also, if the guys are decent, you can get them to help teach you what they look for and focus on. Then, you can either choose to stick with the buy side or move back to the sell side for FT and leverage your understanding of buyer expectations to land a solid MM IB offer.

 

I'd personally pick the PE option if that's what you want to do long term. Sounds like you're thinking about family planning if you're older and, I assume, it's a serious relationship. If it's truly an upper-MM firm it will definitely be known by anyone in PE that would be involved in recruiting later down the road. If you want an opinion on the firm itself feel free to PM. The other factor I'd consider is how much I like the geography/industry.

This is one man's opinion; you'll get well-thought out arguments for both options. Congrats, this is a great problem to have.

 

I'm not very familiar with the ranking of MF/ upper MM / MM / lower MM / etc. But the PE firm has $3-5B in AUM at the moment. The biggest concern about the PE firm is that they have close to no dry powder. I am sure their LP GP can write a side-check for one-off investments but that's not the same as having a guaranteed amount of capital to put to use. In short, M&A activity will be lower. But at the same time, they'll probably be devoting a large amount of time towards divesting their investments (I believe their fund is nearing the end of it's 5/6 year mark). Will the divesting / management of current investments still be a good experience for when I want to make my next career jump to another PE shop?

And for the record, I am older and in a serious relationship. That's why the NYC lifestyle isn't as glamorous as it would have been several years ago.

@Hugh Myron I will send you a PM later this week to ask for a more private opinion on my two options.

 

I would go BB. As you said, traditional/vetted program. If it ain't broken, why fix it?

Also, your point on the only things to do in the city being getting wasted/clubbing is wrong--every major city has more to do than just that...

 

You are absolutely right about the vetted part which is why it is hard to just sign with the PE firm at this point in time. As for the things to do in the city comment. Let me clarify by saying that life in the city is very much associated with the work life balance. When getting off at midnight or after, the only real thing to do is hit up bars.

I am having a call with the PE firm later this week - will post any additionally insight to make it easier to give me advice / suggestions.

 

I worked part time and networked.

Also, I spoke to a VP there and it seems as though they have a committed check from one of the LPs to pursue more acquisitions. And they are planning to restructure one of their funds, which can also be a source of additionally capital.

After some fine tuning of the employment terms, I may sign with the PE firm.

 
holla_back:
Why is macros capitalized? Why is it even there?

"Facilitated the requirements for..."? Huh?

The next bullet needs to be completely rewritten ("conducted due...").

I'm going out now so I can't come up with anymore suggestions for you, but if you quote me in a response I'll save it and check it out tomorrow. Also, I'm like seven beers deep right now.

da fuck u talkin bout spam bot

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 

If you want to be at a top PE firm, you need to come from a great IB. That would probably mean going the no name IB route and trying to lateral to a bigger, better bank. This may add a year or more to your timeline, but a boutique PE gig could very well leave you in a bad position...I know someone kinda like that.

In my experience, very few people will ever come up on the PE side and go from a no name firm to a large firm because you aren't likely to be even looked at. It all comes back to risk for the PE firm. What should they take a chance on someone that may not be able to hack the hard hours when they can grab someone from a BB that they know has pulled all nighters and made short deadlines?

I realize it seems counter intuitive, but I would consider the IB route. I see decent IBs that are looking for people with prior IB experience all the time, that relevant experience can be your way in to a larger bank which could lead to a larger PE shop down the road.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Well I think the choice should depend on what level you are at ... I think after an analyst/associate experience, a PE job would definitely be better but I don't know if joining PE straightaway would be such a good idea. But if you are talking a PE like KKR or Blackstone, then obviously things change.

 

from a career standpoint, it might be wiser to take IBD, like the previous poster said. the skills you learn in IBD are important for the future... but if you do go to KKR, TPG, etc., then that probably means they think you already have the skills to do the job.

on a work/project-basis, private equity is definitely more interesting. at the analyst/pre-mba level, there's less BS work... overall, you get to look at what companies are good investments and how to turn things around for them. that's 10x more interesting to me than cranking out spreadsheets for an equity/debt issuance...

lifestyle is key too. all of the top-PE funds will work you pretty hard, esp bstone, but the hours probably won't match banking and at least the work is more meaningful.

 

I think while banking teaches you tools, it is essentially a marketing job (adjusting your premise to get a conclusion). PE is analyzing various conclusions by critically examining premises using the same tools bankers use. Hence it is inherently more interesting. For those without an ancient interest in finance, doing banking first may be a good idea.

 

I think that, in general, that most new Finance graduates should probably go with IBD over PE strictly due the fact that you will use most, if not all, of your senior years knowledge. I would fathom that PE would be a completely new experience focusing mostly on mathematical analysis and for those who do not share a love for numbers, it might just prove to be a burdensome, undesirable career path to follow. If however, you already experience in IBD then by all means try PE. More knowledge and experience is a good thing.

 
EugeneEisenman:

I think that, in general, that most new Finance graduates should probably go with IBD over PE strictly due the fact that you will use most, if not all, of your senior years knowledge. I would fathom that PE would be a completely new experience focusing mostly on mathematical analysis and for those who do not share a love for numbers, it might just prove to be a burdensome, undesirable career path to follow. If however, you already experience in IBD then by all means try PE. More knowledge and experience is a good thing.

What are you even saying here? Don't give advice on topics that you know nothing about. Let alone bump a 10 year-old thread to do so.
 

Ibanking sucks compared to Private Equity. Did you hear how much Stephen Schwarzman and Pete Peterson the co-founders of private equity giant Blackstone made?

Schwarzman made $9 billion from the IPO. He was originally set to receive $7.50 billion, but the stock price opened 18% higher than expected. Peterson made $1.8 billion from the IPO.

Just last year alone in 2006 Schwarzman made $400 million and Peterson $213 million.

The top 5 executives at Blackstone made a combined $771.5 million in 2006. That's an average of $154 million per year.

For comparison, Lloyd Blankfein, Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs was the highest paid CEO on Wall Street last year earning $54 million.

 

i dont think one or the other sucks.

u don't take a job in IB without knowing about the hrs. u dont take a job in PE without knowing about the traveling. And the hours in PE vary but are usually about 10 - 15 hrs less than IB.

Having worked in both fields, i can say that there are differences between being an analyst in IB and an associate in PE.

Currently, PE is very hot but it might not be so in the next 5 years. Unless a sector falls hugely out of favor with the market, IB tends to be a bit more secure.

Here's a summary of pros and cons. U choose whats a pro and whats a con in ur opinion. I'm putting this forward from an analyst/associate perspective in IB & an associate's in PE.

IB - Long hours, traveling, one of the better paying jobs out of college/graduate program, exit options, opportunity to make contacts, more stable than PE (open for debate), transferable skillsets, variety of transactions (IPOs, M&A, Financing, buy & sell side advisory, etc.), nowadays analysts are encouraged to continue with the firm

PE - less hours than IB but still long, more traveling, only buy side, more money, usually u get kicked out after two years and told to get a MBA, Highly competitive, more prestige, less stable than IB (open for debate), transferable skills, contacts, a lot more autonomy

Make of it what you will. In the end, both are great opportunities for those willing to work for them. I don't think one sucks and the other rocks. Both have their downsides, but u have to take the good with the bad.

If someone was happy making 70k - 80k and still maintaining a decent work like balance (ie 50-70 hour work weeks), they would go to operations/back office finance, etc. Analyst stages and up.

Its kind of contradictory to say i want to be an ib monkey and i only want to 40 hrs/week.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

Tough choice but why not try to get the best of both worlds? Do the IB track for 2 years to gain the fundamental base and then hop on over to this entrepreneurial opportunity at the MM PE firm.

 

Thanks for the reply, poloruler!

I would judge from your reply that the fundamental base is something you wouldn't want to sacrifice? While I doubt that this exact opportunity will stay open for 2 years, I guess there should be new ones coming up...

From reading a couple of threats here (especially 10xleverage's) I take away that valuation excellence is what really matters for big PE funds and also a lot of the smaller ones. Do you think this is something that one can also learn at a MM PE firm?

 

I'd go with the banking experience first. You could always try to get back to the MM PE firm. IB would also give you the choice of going back to the MM PE firm, but also give you some exposure to Mega PE funds. I doubt two years out of school you'll have contributed much to the PE shop anyhow whereas with banking you have the opportunity to hone and sharpen your technical skills.

just my 2 cents

 

If you are at a top ten IB, you are going to get excellent training. On the PE side, as far as I can tell you just get thrown into the fire and have to get yourself up to speed as fast as you can. You will have more PE opportunities coming out of the investment bank than you would at this small PE shop. That being said, you have to decide what you want. If you are sure you want to do small cap PE, go for it. If you are wanting to move upstream after a few years, banking is better. The right answer depends on your future plans.

 

Question for everyone voting for the banking route - I'm under the impression that only 25-35% of banking analysts get into the buyside every year. If his ultimate goal is to work in PE and he has an offer already on the table, why should he take the risk of going through recruiting from the IB?

I'd think that he'd learn all the skills necessary for PE since he'd be in PE (duh) and would be a cinch for another, larger firm to pick up as a lateral.

Am I off here?

 
bonobochimp:
Question for everyone voting for the banking route - I'm under the impression that only 25-35% of banking analysts get into the buyside every year. If his ultimate goal is to work in PE and he has an offer already on the table, why should he take the risk of going through recruiting from the IB?

I'd think that he'd learn all the skills necessary for PE since he'd be in PE (duh) and would be a cinch for another, larger firm to pick up as a lateral.

Am I off here?

Totally agree. Bird in hand worth two in the bush.
-- sm
 

That's a very good point, bonobochimp, thanks!

However, from everything I read around here and heard talking to people from the industry incl. headhunters, lateral hiring from small to mid to large cap funds doesn't happen as often as one would usually assume. As far as I understood, large cap PE is a lot more about technical skills while small cap can be more operational and in general less number driven.

Another point that might potentially get relevant in a few years is international mobility. I assume having a small firm on your CV is not going to make this move as easy as having a very good bank on it?

Thanks to all of you for your contributions, I appreciate all of them!

 
  1. Pros - If you know you want to do PE long-term, then bypassing the IBD bitch work is a huge plus. Cons - You run the risk of pegging yourself in that career path since you don't have the more broadly applicable experience IBD analysts have.

  2. You theoretically could, but it isn't that typical at all.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

"You run the risk of pegging yourself in that career path since you don't have the more broadly applicable experience IBD analysts have"

that's a good point. IB opens the doors to hedge funds, AM, ER, PE, etc. PE seems more focused, but i bet you might be able to move elsewhere if you have good modeling skills and other relevant experience.

 

It's typically "easy" post-MBA, i.e. IBD -> PE -> MBA -> HF, but entering PE out of undergrad and trying to roll over would likely be more difficult since you're already on buy-side and not using school again as the catalyst for career change.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

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