really depends on the person running it..

i.e. moelis vs. stone key - you've heard of one and not of the other. exit opps vary..but it will depend more on your and your senior banker's connections.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

usually

unless you are at a well known boutique, go for the BB route

small boutiques' deal flows can be on and off, and you probably do not have associate/senior analysts that came from BBs to teach you stuff nor would you have formalized training

However, as with all boutiques, you get great interaction with your MD and really know how to run the process ( since you will be the sole analyst on the deal)

With BBs, you have the name where people might have heard off, and you have the opportunity to work in a large group ( assuming in NYC), and the experience of doing what you would do as an analyst

It all comes down to personal preference.

Also, as a side note, if you go to top boutiques, they tend to pay more

 

Back on topic, so connections > name recognition for start-up IB companies? Also, what are the biggest disadvantages to beginning a career at a start up?

 
Best Response

I'm a a start-up PE fund... so this may relate.

Pros:

1- Better/more flexible hours (at least at my firm). Working in a very small group, everyone becomes very close and are respectful of each others' lives. 2- Very little hierarchical bullshit. I am the only associate at my firm, then it jumps to 3 principals, each with 10+ years of banking experience. I am treated as an equal, given a ton of responsibility, and am close with the 3 principals and the partners, which I would not get at a BB bank, where my VP/MD may not even know my name. I am involved in every deal we do in some way or another so I am learning a ton. 3- Great upside potential and future pay potential. If things go well, they will go very well, and very quickly (I hope). Getting in on the ground level should give you strong connections with the senior people at the firm and allow you to move up quicker than you would elsewhere assuming you perform.

Cons: 1- No brand name. Nobody knows the name of my firm when I say I work for XXX. 2- Possibly limited resources. You may not have access to everything in terms of research, etc. that you would have elsewhere 3- Current pay. My current pay sucks. No beating around the bush. When you are in start-up mode, dollars are precious. My firm isn't throwing around bonus money like Goldman at this point, but then again, if things go well, I sure hope they will be.

Hope this helps

 
  1. Yes, it is possible. It is also possible it will never grow past its current state. Who knows? There are hundreds of banks like this across the country.
  2. Your third question indicates that, while you call the work child's play, you actually don't know how to complete and own the task given to you. If you want client-facing projects, crush the projects you perceive to be menial. In addition, show some initiative and be proactive. Given the size of the firm, you can easily get some valuable experience by showing how quickly you progressed, even as an intern.
 

You have zero involvement in client meetings and phone calls?

It sounds like fairly standard analyst work. When it comes down to it, you need to assess the quality of deal flow. Some boutiques, driven by strong rainmakers, are a great place to work because analysts work closer with MDs.

Others really struggle to obtain quality deal flow without a brand name behind them. It comes down to the quality of the MDs. If you are working on some interesting deals and have faith in your MDs, it would be worth sticking it out. If not, look for a jump to a larger boutique or MM shop. Many are struggling for analysts that have basic understanding of modeling, buyer searches, CIM writing, etc.

 

I think that it should be noted that when I say just started I mean that I've got two days under my belt so far lol. This is just something I am wondering if I should worry about. I'm more or less just skeptic with a shop like this.

As far as my third question goes I have an idea of what I'm supposed to do and I've been getting some solid work in on it but I just wanted some insight from people with more experience.

 

here's a rambling thoughts you may want to consider

is the internship paid? may help fund some boozing/partying during senior year.

you may be able to leverage the MD's contacts while your working in IT and make it easy on yourself when your in an MBA program

You could lateral to a TMT boutique once the market picks up with the internship experience under your belt and your degree/work experience in IT prior to attending grad school.

do you really want to spend your time working in banking your senior year in college (dude you only get one) and juggle work and school and run the risk of missing out on some fun times.

i would suggest, if you can get the internship do it. hopefully you'll be able to close deals with the MD.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

I'm in college too, so take my advice however you want.

I say go for it - take the plunge. Life is for the adventure man, and starting out at a new IB firm with a bunch of guys who have been around the block a few times is a good way to make it to the top quickly right out of college. It seems like you have the right qualities and that hustling nature to get deals and clients so the future looks bright. Personally, I would kill to be in your spot. I'm interning at a mm IB firm right now, but I have that entrepreneurial spirit so starting a new firm with a few BSD's would mean a lot to me.

Unless you know someone at a BB, I wouldn't bank on getting another interview. You said you're a senior now, which means you're pretty much screwed for recruiting since that ended in February.

Do the startup, let your partners know that you only have enough cash to last you a few months (I'm sure they would subsidize you somehow) and if it doesn't work out, your best bet would be to go to B-School and then apply to the BB's for an associate position. Sure this requires adding more debt, but you're young and will have no trouble paying it off if you kill it. Best of luck

 

It's very risky I think. I worked very briefly for a start-up investment bank a number of years ago and quickly realized that the deal flow and business were far too slow and it wasn't fun fighting for table scraps. I was relatively senior at that point and easily transitioned to a BB, but that will be a very difficult transition if you're junior and the start-up doesn't work out for you.

Get a lot of advice from any experienced bankers you know about the upside and risks, and the principals involved.

Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connecting You to the Advice and People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals

Gotta Mentor Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
 

That's the thing, I imagine the deal flow, especially in this environment, would be very slow and as a result of a 2 or 2 year analyst position structured like the bigger players, I don't know if the experience would be as good as other firms, if the deal experience would be significant (or existent at all), and also, yeah, the bonus money plays a factor as well.

What do you think about existing well-established firms and joining an office that is in the process of opening or will be opening later in the year? Same?

 
lkc:
That's the thing, I imagine the deal flow, especially in this environment, would be very slow and as a result of a 2 or 2 year analyst position structured like the bigger players, I don't know if the experience would be as good as other firms, if the deal experience would be significant (or existent at all), and also, yeah, the bonus money plays a factor as well.

Would probably depend on the players; for instance, the two banks that are coming out of Barclays will both likely be legit, as those guys are good and took deals with them.

lkc:
What do you think about existing well-established firms and joining an office that is in the process of opening or will be opening later in the year? Same?

Are you referring, for instance, to the Moellis London office? I think it would depend on how good the firm is - Moellis London is likely to be succesful, but not nearly as much so as the LA office. Still, it might well be easier to get in there, and I don't think it would put you at a huge disadvantage in the long-term; short term, your options are probably more circumscribed, but long term you'll be on the right track.

 

I actually worked at a ib startup this summer. The offices may not have been that nice but they're moving up soon. They were are all ex-BB M&A guys and have really solid connections.

I would say go for it if you're still a non-junior undergrad because I felt like I gained more experience than my BB SA friends.

 

Knew a guy that did that and now the bank is doing pretty well (Foros). He went with two MD's who wanted to start up their own, so it was just him (analyst) and the MD's. Granted the MD's were pretty well known and high up with BBs before they split.

 

I did....

The guy had been a healthcare consultant and worked as a part of many M&A transactions. Had connections all over the place. We had 1 large sell-side client with legit offers and a few small prospects on retainer. Only 6 people in the office.

A month in our large client pulled the plug and my job lasted about a week longer.

It sounds fishy (and it sort of was), but it was also very legit. I saw the written offers from legit PE shops, I took the trip to NY and met alot of our MD's contacts at the top shops, we had a nice office, etc.... but it crumbled REAL quickly.

The place is still kind of operating, but its struggling big time.

All that being said.....I'd do it again in a heart beat. If this quirky guy from Latin America didn't change his mind on the sale (even though we got offers that exceeded his target) I'd be in a very different place in my life right now.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy
 

While people say you might get more responsibility at a smaller firm that is ABSOLUTELY not always true. at a larger firm you might be working with several live deals with senior management and at a smaller firm (especially smaller firm without admin) you could be stuck doing administrative database work all day (could also be great but more variable). be careful and know the role before stepping in

 
sum41fan:
at a smaller firm (especially smaller firm without admin) you could be stuck doing administrative database work all day (could also be great but more variable). be careful and know the role before stepping in

+1 to this. I currently work at a newish shop (open for IPO, and with only 3 junior bankers and tight deadlines, a lot of this responsibility gets put on me.

In sum, just be sure that you're getting in bed with real bankers. There are a lot of people out there that think that since they were a VP at some decent MM bank that they're qualified to start their own shop. I know for a fact that many small firms flat out lie about the transaction work that they've done and the relationships that they have with HF's / PE firms / Companies / Bankers, etc. to help with recruiting and pitches. Be sure to do some DD on the senior bankers before you interview. Find out about their backgrounds and talk to any contacts that you have in banking and ask them what they've heard about xyz firm or abc banker. During your interview, maybe ask about one of the transactions listed on their "recent transactions" page. Ask them to clarify their role in the transaction (for example, if they have a big M&A deal on their page, did they do the advisory or just the fairness?) and ask if that type of deal is typical for the firm.

The exit ops trade-offs have been discussed ad nauseum, so you should all know the risk you're taking by taking an offer from a firm like this. Do yourself a favor and at least do your homework to minimize the risk as much as possible.

 

point is it depends on the few key people you are working with

does not matter whether you are in banking, trading, consulting or teaching

there are great teachers and shit teachers

keep that in mind and KNOW the people that you are working for directly

and EVEN IF you work for geniuses, if they have no DEAL FLOW, you will have NO EXIT opportunities

 

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