IMF and World Bank

Anyone know how the lifestyles of workers at IMF and WB are? pay? exit opportunities?

Working at World Bank in Finance

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Great short term op if you can land it, terrible pay relative to banking/pe/etc. Exit ops are business school or death from the rare disease you caught when you married that 23-year-old girl you met while you were working with local builders to complete an infrastructure investment in Thailand. The prestige is there, but be careful about when/why you take it. And know what to expect from the culture, because you work closely with your teams.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't basically a requirement to have a PhD to get hired as a toilet scrubber at those institutions? I've only known two people who applied there and both were international Finance PhDs from top schools, both of which were rejected without even an interview.

But I'm not an expert on those places, just giving my 2 cents. Pretty prestigious companies to work for from what I've heard, so good luck.

 
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So before I decided I wanted to scour the earth for an analyst stint in IBD, I wanted to work for the IFC, the arm of the World Bank that makes private investments and structures private transactions in other countries (for everything from oil/gas platforms off the coast of Bangladesh to libraries in Somalia).

In the process, I talked to many alumni from my school who now work with the World Bank. I also have alot of family in the orginzation as well.

Some things:

  • Pay is more like a government agency (since it is basically one). You start out at a certain rate depending on your education and go from there. For PhDs this is generally close to around 200k, no bonus, nothing else. Raises are small, but consistent.
  • lifestyle is easy (10-6 or better...or worse depending on how you see it). My boss at my PE internship in DC used to work for the IFC. "I got ahead fast because most people there are fairly lazy and have succumbed to the beauracracy, so my director would come in at 10:30am, and as long as you came in before that, you were fine. He left at 4-5pm..." Paraphrasing his words, but you get the point. Don't expect hyper-motivated people at the WB at least. Can't speak for the IMF as much but I imagine it's similar. But the people are older and so yes, there are many people wanting to do good things, but they are caught up in a culture and beauracracy that is by definition, slow and fucking sucky. Which is sad, because an organization like this could do alot more good alot quicker if it was run like a business. But alas, there are way too many hands in the pot (countries, voting rights, the US not wanting money to be used to fund projects in countries where political discourse is sour, etc.), and so things move slow, if at all.
    -Exit Ops: If you are a senior guy (PhD, etc.) this is probably your last job, or you plan to make it that way.

Let's change things up and assume you are coming in as a bright-eyed kid, wanting to do some good. You're right. They don't hire fresh undergrads or recent grads with a hanful of years of experience. They mostly hire MBAs/graduate students. That said, they do have the JPA (junior position analyst). It's very competitive (network like hell or speak 3 languages) and only a few positions are given out. These analysts complete work similar to an IBD/IM analyst: macroeconomic research, writing reports and on the plus side: working for an organization known round' the world (famously or infamously is for you to decide) and they also get to work closely with investment officers, who are the ones structuring the transactions and doing the deals for the bank abroad (at least from the IFC perspective). Their pay is not good relative to let's say, anything else people here are shooting for. Think around 60-65k all in.

Hope I haven't sounded to cynical. It is an amazing organization. And while the average deal takes YEARS to close, if ever, they still do some very good things and have financed some major projects in third world countries. But I would only work there:

-for two years after IBD and before business school -When I am 60 and want to do a little good and let the world be free, while still having enough time to go back to my 20 year old wife because I'm rich, have been three times divorced and hate others and my soul because banking stole it away from me.

So overall: great short term op if you can land it, terrible pay relative to banking/pe/etc. exit ops are business school or death from the rare disease you caught when you married that 23 year old girl you met while you were working with local builders to complete an infrastructure investment in Thailand. The prestige is there, but be careful about when/why you take it. And know what to expect from the culture, because you work closely with your teams.

 

Similar to what Alphaholic said above, lifestyle is pretty easy and pay is ok but not great (e.g. analyst pay without the bonus). I think he networked like hell to get the position because he was fresh out of undergrad - or maybe it's some less prestigious role.

Not 100% sure on exit opportunities but I would imagine less than IBD simply because recruiters are not likely to be calling on you if you work at one of these places. Even if you're much smarter and more capable than your banking counter-parts, if you're off the radar of recruiters you can't do too much. Think it's pretty much business school or hopefully-network-your-way-into-something-else-maybe (emphasize maybe).

I think it might be a cool opportunity but it's probably not the best thing for ambitious undergrads or young professionals... more for PhD's who don't want to go be quants at HFs but instead want to do something finance/business-related while saving the world, at least a bit at a time.

 

Most young professionals join the Bank at analyst level, here is the latest data on salaries (2007):

[minimum | maximum] 1. Analyst [53,920 | 98,120]
2. Professional [71,910 | 130,870] 3. Senior Professional [95,210 | 173,290] 4. Manager, Lead Professional [132,390 | 232,360] 5. Director, Senior Advisor [182,000 | 275,400] 6. Vice President [236,040 | 304,020] 7. Managing Director, Executive VP [260,260 | 324,610]

Please note that these salaries are NET OF TAXES. Some teams do receive modest bonuses (IFC, WB Treasury). Quality of life is very high: 9am-6pm*, 26 days of annual leave (for starters), good insurance package, but be prepared to travel frequently. Culture is pretty laid back, but bureaucratic (less so at IFC). Exit ops: depends on the team. Not many if you work in core IBRD or IDA teams, pretty good if you are at IFC (they keep losing people to Wall Street all the time). IMF salaries have traditionally been somewhat highter, but the Board has just axed 10% of the staff (giving nice severance packages), I don't think they hire activelly these days. You will also need a top PhD in order to get there. The culture is extremely old-school and hierarchical.

*Oh, one more thing. Some people opt for so called Alternative Work Schedule, which basically means that you work 80 hours in 9 days and have every 10th day off.

 

I worked as a consultant in World Bank's private sector agencies, the IFC and MIGA, for a few years before B-school (FYI, a very large percentage of employees in multilateral institutions carry this title, it means you're a contract employee, receive no benefits, and don't count toward quota restrictions).

I think Alphaholic is spot on ... the bureaucracy was absolutely amazing. Deals take forever to get done, when they do it is generally not because it makes financial or economic sense, but because the board member from Ethiopia wants a project done in his country. (picture the UN Security Council running an investment bank) Also pretty much every private company goes to WB/IFC as an absolute last resort, when nobody in the private sector is crazy enough to finance the project.

I don't think exit ops are that great, most everyone in private sector finance looks down on these places, as they should. The PhD's in research are pretty sharp and do some great stuff, but it get's lost once politics get involved. I've met a few other former WB/IMF staff around investment banks, most went to B-school to transition over and all reminisced at length about the awful environment.

Again as Alpha said I would consider returning in retirement . . . come in at 10, read the paper until lunch-time when I meet my multi-lingual friends for a 2 hour meal with wine, make a few phone calls and dodge stupid meetings in the afternoon, on the golf course by 4:30.

Finally with the rise of SWF's and massive hard currency reserve balances around the world these institutions are becoming more irrelevant every day. My guess is that they will be a shadow of their former selves by the time I retire.

 
So before I decided I wanted to scour the earth for an analyst stint in IBD, I wanted to work for the IFC, the arm of the World Bank that makes private investments and structures private transactions in other countries (for everything from oil/gas platforms off the coast of Bangladesh to libraries in Somalia).

In the process, I talked to many alumni from my school who now work with the World Bank. I also have alot of family in the orginzation as well.

Some things:

  • Pay is more like a government agency (since it is basically one). You start out at a certain rate depending on your education and go from there. For PhDs this is generally close to around 200k, no bonus, nothing else. Raises are small, but consistent.
  • lifestyle is easy (10-6 or better...or worse depending on how you see it). My boss at my PE internship in DC used to work for the IFC. "I got ahead fast because most people there are fairly lazy and have succumbed to the beauracracy, so my director would come in at 10:30am, and as long as you came in before that, you were fine. He left at 4-5pm..." Paraphrasing his words, but you get the point. Don't expect hyper-motivated people at the WB at least. Can't speak for the IMF as much but I imagine it's similar. But the people are older and so yes, there are many people wanting to do good things, but they are caught up in a culture and beauracracy that is by definition, slow and fucking sucky. Which is sad, because an organization like this could do alot more good alot quicker if it was run like a business. But alas, there are way too many hands in the pot (countries, voting rights, the US not wanting money to be used to fund projects in countries where political discourse is sour, etc.), and so things move slow, if at all. -Exit Ops: If you are a senior guy (PhD, etc.) this is probably your last job, or you plan to make it that way.

Let's change things up and assume you are coming in as a bright-eyed kid, wanting to do some good. You're right. They don't hire fresh undergrads or recent grads with a hanful of years of experience. They mostly hire MBAs/graduate students. That said, they do have the JPA (junior position analyst). It's very competitive (network like hell or speak 3 languages) and only a few positions are given out. These analysts complete work similar to an IBD/IM analyst: macroeconomic research, writing reports and on the plus side: working for an organization known round' the world (famously or infamously is for you to decide) and they also get to work closely with investment officers, who are the ones structuring the transactions and doing the deals for the bank abroad (at least from the IFC perspective). Their pay is not good relative to let's say, anything else people here are shooting for. Think around 60-65k all in.

Hope I haven't sounded to cynical. It is an amazing organization. And while the average deal takes YEARS to close, if ever, they still do some very good things and have financed some major projects in third world countries. But I would only work there:

-for two years after IBD and before business school -When I am 60 and want to do a little good and let the world be free, while still having enough time to go back to my 20 year old wife because I'm rich, have been three times divorced and hate others and my soul because banking stole it away from me.

So overall: great short term op if you can land it, terrible pay relative to banking/pe/etc. exit ops are business school or death from the rare disease you caught when you married that 23 year old girl you met while you were working with local builders to complete an infrastructure investment in Thailand. The prestige is there, but be careful about when/why you take it. And know what to expect from the culture, because you work closely with your teams.

Found this post when I googled IMF compensation. Hilarious!! :)

 
Alexey Kirilov:
gweilo:
anyone know anything about this? i know they do private equity - type infrastructure deals. how do they pay?

Don't really know much about them, but I can guarantee you that you will not be making much money working for the World Bank.

not unless you're Wolfowitz's girlfriend

 

international organization is not a place to go if you want to get paid.

If you think the peace corps sounds cool, but want to do finance, join the World Bank or the IMF.

They help finance and arrange deals in the developing world (Africa, Asia, etc.)...They do projects like infrastructure things like airports, power plants, water purification, and a ton of other stuff. Basically, they either in invest or secure capital at a much lower cost than would be available to these projects or countries on the open market.

There are no multi-billion dollar firms paying millions in fees to the World Bank and IMF...this is supported mostly by US tax dollars

It's worthwhile work and if you are passionate about it, do it, but this is not the path to riches.

Go read about iwhat they do on their website to understand better what they do.

The only way you get rich working for these guys is being corrupt (which I'm sure happens, but likely at more senior levels).

 

Not US tax dollars. Monies from member countries.

IMF has over 180 country members now. Largest contributors are Scandinavian countries.

Great place to work for the right cause. Riches are not one of them.

Same with WB. Lots of micro-financing and focus heavy on international economic and socio-political issues.

 
al123:
IMF has over 180 country members now. Largest contributors are Scandinavian countries.

The U.S. is single-handedly the largest contributor the the IMF, followed by Western European countries. The Scandinavian countries give the most money as a percentage of their GDP.

 

that on paper. Quite frankly the US promises the most, but does not actually pay out.

Put in my dues there for a few years. Continue to be involved as a volunteer. Stii waiting on the Tsunami money from US.

Then there is the AIDS money promised- tied to political issues such as not to be used for condoms, most educate on no pre-marital sex, etc- monies never paid out.

 
al123:
that on paper. Quite frankly the US promises the most, but does not actually pay out.

Put in my dues there for a few years. Continue to be involved as a volunteer. Stii waiting on the Tsunami money from US.

Then there is the AIDS money promised- tied to political issues such as not to be used for condoms, most educate on no pre-marital sex, etc- monies never paid out.

That's not at all how the IMF funding works.

There is an account that the IMF maintains with funds primarily made up of quotas from each of the member countries.

That quota account is at $317 billion as of July 2006. In order to be a member, you must PAY YOUR PORTION IN FULL...the US (and every other member country) has done that!

Now whether there have been promises of additional aid either in conjunction with or outside of the auspices of the IMF, I am not sure. And maybe there are such ad hoc projects that have been promised but not paid.

But the IMF has all the money it is supposed to have in its budget and distributes it based on its on its internal project acceptance criteria, not whether or not someone pays up after something is agreed upon.

 

You are absolutely correct about the IMF.

Shit...I lost more than half of my post there and it makes no sense. Was trying to get to the point of UN_WB_Emergncy Relief Funds.

Not the place for my political rantings

It's late here-screwing up my posts while multitasking and am beyond tired

thanks for catching that.

 

Federal Reserve banks also take undergrads I think

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.
 

I don't know a whole lot about the Fed other than the Money Market desk in NY being a great place to learn about macro developments (although the vibe has probably been a little different the past few years with ZIRP and QEs).

The IMF is probably the least attractive from the perspective of an MBA. I get the sense that unless you're an econ PhD and work there as an economist, you'll be somewhat of second class citizen at the IMF. The World Bank probably has the most interesting proposition for an MBA with their global transaction team program at the IFC. Becoming an Investment Officer there seems like a solid gig and if you manage to get your foot in the door of their treasury, you could pick up great experience for a macro fund. If you can't make it into one of their structured programs, the World Bank also hires a great deal of consultants each year for long-term assignments but it would be a strongly uphill battle from there.

One final note regarding which MBA program to choose. Columbia is the obvious choice if you want to work at the NY Fed. They send a ton of people there each year and the geographic proximity would help from a networking perspective. For the World Bank, a dual-degree with an IR program could come in handy and Columbia would be a solid place to do that as well.

 
GoodBread:
I don't know a whole lot about the Fed other than the Money Market desk in NY being a great place to learn about macro developments (although the vibe has probably been a little different the past few years with ZIRP and QEs).

The IMF is probably the least attractive from the perspective of an MBA. I get the sense that unless you're an econ PhD and work there as an economist, you'll be somewhat of second class citizen at the IMF. The World Bank probably has the most interesting proposition for an MBA with their global transaction team program at the IFC. Becoming an Investment Officer there seems like a solid gig and if you manage to get your foot in the door of their treasury, you could pick up great experience for a macro fund. If you can't make it into one of their structured programs, the World Bank also hires a great deal of consultants each year for long-term assignments but it would be a strongly uphill battle from there.

One final note regarding which MBA program to choose. Columbia is the obvious choice if you want to work at the NY Fed. They send a ton of people there each year and the geographic proximity would help from a networking perspective. For the World Bank, a dual-degree with an IR program could come in handy and Columbia would be a solid place to do that as well.

Thanks so much for this great feedback. I appreciate it. Is the world bank IFC mostly a corporate finance type role, or is it actual investment research? I know for a fact that they do recruit at b-schools.

I'm considering applying to b-schools as well as HKS and SAIS. The few people i've talked to have said though that a public policy degree alone won't be good for someone like me since i eventually want to use that experiene to get into a macro hedge fund or a large investment firm with a strong Asian presence (BlackRock, standard chartered, HSBC, come to mind) and do sovereign debt research.

I'm also looking at product management roles at places like PIMCO, aqr, dimensional fund, etc. But a good friend starting at a MBA business schools ">M7 this fall thinks that is not a compelling short-term career goal given my background and interests.

 
GoodBread:
I don't know a whole lot about the Fed other than the Money Market desk in NY being a great place to learn about macro developments (although the vibe has probably been a little different the past few years with ZIRP and QEs).

The IMF is probably the least attractive from the perspective of an MBA. I get the sense that unless you're an econ PhD and work there as an economist, you'll be somewhat of second class citizen at the IMF. The World Bank probably has the most interesting proposition for an MBA with their global transaction team program at the IFC. Becoming an Investment Officer there seems like a solid gig and if you manage to get your foot in the door of their treasury, you could pick up great experience for a macro fund. If you can't make it into one of their structured programs, the World Bank also hires a great deal of consultants each year for long-term assignments but it would be a strongly uphill battle from there.

One final note regarding which MBA program to choose. Columbia is the obvious choice if you want to work at the NY Fed. They send a ton of people there each year and the geographic proximity would help from a networking perspective. For the World Bank, a dual-degree with an IR program could come in handy and Columbia would be a solid place to do that as well.

I'm interested in a similar path as well, but am discouraged with the small number of opportunities at these organizations. My goal is to eventually make it into the Department of State as an FSO, but applying for those positions are like buying a lottery ticket.

While I pursue that, I'd love to get my MBA and work at the WB/IMF/etc, but since I don't have a PHD in Econ, I may have to settle for working in consulting and focusing on EM.

I've been looking at the MBA/IR dual degree at Georgetown, since the school better fits my profile. Has anyone here had success or known anyone who's had success walking the line between the public/private sector with an MBA, specifically in an international/EM setting?

 

I know couple of people who went IFC Investment Analyst/Officer track. Pre-MBA: http://www1.ifc.org/wps/wcm/connect/careers_ext_content/ifc_external_co… Post-MBA: http://www1.ifc.org/wps/wcm/connect/careers_ext_content/ifc_external_co… Both had previous IB experience. Lower pay, less hours, but fun job. You get to travel to foreign locations to assess investments, etc.

 

The IFC is basically an emerging-market PE/infrastructure shop. More market-related stuff such as the World Bank treasury or the NY Fed's desk are relatively lean and would require more networking and luck.

An international relations background isn't all that uncommon for those jobs but breaking in has probably gotten harder vs. when the FX and EM markets where first starting up.

And your friend is right, product management at a big AM firm is a very corporate kind of role with little in common with the actual investment process.

 
GoodBread:
The IFC is basically an emerging-market PE/infrastructure shop. More market-related stuff such as the World Bank treasury or the NY Fed's desk are relatively lean and would require more networking and luck.

An international relations background isn't all that uncommon for those jobs but breaking in has probably gotten harder vs. when the FX and EM markets where first starting up.

And your friend is right, product management at a big AM firm is a very corporate kind of role with little in common with the actual investment process.

Thanks for this clarification. You're right about product management at a big AM firm. It doesn't seem like a good fit with my interests, and i'm guessing it doesn't lead to macro hedge fund as an exit opp. I just thought it was an intriguing job since you get to learn a TON about fixed income and currency products.

Not quite sure how this story will play with adcom in terms of my career goals. It's not a conventional post-MBA path, so i'm concerned that adcom might think that perhaps i'm applying for the wrong degree.

 

Also very curious.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
 

The World Bank is an interesting place, but simply working there will never get you a slot at a top business school. However, if you are choosing between the IT at the World Bank and IT at the US Dept of Agriculture, take the WB every time.

The other thing about IT, is that if it is your first job out of school, and you get to meet people within the organization, and are qualified, then you might be better able to transfer into a job that has more policy or economics related to it.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

well, its not an IT job,just related to IT projects and development, its mostly project management + consulting, policy /strategy, proposal writing etc.

not my first job though

 

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