UNC vs Stern
Hello,
I am a senior in high school. Over the last few months, I have gone through an excruciating decision process, which has yet to come to a conclusion. The decision is Stern vs UNC. Now I have obviously not gained admittance to either of the schools, but my problem lies within Early Decision.
I want to apply ED to Stern. I love Stern. I love the city. I love the type of education (not into liberal arts), as I'd love a strictly finance education. I love the career opportunities. I love the school-type (I'm not very interested in the traditional college experience in attending football games and fratting it up for my 4 years). My 'Why Stern' supp essay was not hard to write at all I really do love everything about Stern. The problem is that I come from a middle class family and as many of you know, NYU is notorious for its shitty aid. I have a friend from the same school who got into Stern RD last year (he had roughly the same grades, ECs, demographics, socioeconomic status etc) and they wanted him to pay $55k/yr. He turned it down. I'm not sure I would turn it down though. I understand the gravity of debt. I understand that especially living in NYC, I will be heavily, heavily limited in my ability to enjoy my time outside of work there. I also know that I 100% want to do IB. I believe that in many ways I fit the Stern stereotype (except I'm not Asian) of being Type A and focused on making it to NYC IB. My parents have done quite a bit of saving for my college (there have also been some familial inheritances that my mom received) and being an only child, their max yearly college payments would be $30k and they would be willing to cosign on loans to lower interest rates. I am incredibly, incredibly grateful for my very generous parents. Granted, if the Stern aid is that bad, I can back out of my ED agreement, but I risk getting blacklisted to my other colleges and then having nowhere to go. That is where I am with Stern.
On the other hand, my instate school is UNC. I shouldn't have any issues getting into UNC as my school sends a ton of kids there every year (~60% acceptance rate from my school). It'd be very cheap. My parents obviously prefer it more for that reason. I'm not sure I like UNC though. I've visited the school several times during the school year and have friends that go there, and I just get this weird feeling when I visit. I'm not sure, but it's just a weird feeling. I know a lot of people seem to not understand this way of thinking, but I'm not really into the whole frat scene, pre-gaming bullshit. I'm not really sold on the whole college town thing and staying in cinderblock dorms.
Additionally, I've lived in the South for all 17 years of my life. It may sound juvenile and stupid, but at this point, I just want to try something new. I want to go somewhere new and meet new people. UNC, being 82% in-state students who generally seem to be the same type of person and very similar to type of people I already go to school with. I just want to go somewhere new and meet new people. NYU and NYC itself seems incredibly diverse and new.
I know KF is no slouch, but it still seems like unless you are 3.8+, you're going to have trouble making it to NYC IB. Seems like most recruiters come from Atlanta or Charlotte, and I really want to get out of the South as quickly as possible. I have no plans to ever want to work here.
I know people will just mindlessly say UNC because there is a blatant anti-Stern circlejerk on here, but if there could actually be some basis for your answer, that'd be nice. Thank you.
Please help. I've been trying to decide the outcome of this since this summer. Thank you so much.
think about your downside - suppose you have been admitted, etc., and you attend Stern / KF, but you found that you hate it.
Which option is easier to get out of?
Well, I'd have to go through 2 years of gen ed classes to even get to KF, while Stern is 1st year, so I guess Stern.
what if you hate the university? that's much harder of a choice than major. I hope you have deep enough pockets to handle either way.
The only advice I have as someone who is only a couple of years displaced from your position is that its easy to think you know what you want to do now. Ultimately, until you properly experience both (and with an open mind) you might find yourself in a very disconcerting position by sticking to your guns at the ripe old age of 17. I'd recommend doing a proper visit to both schools, as well as looking at other schools. Cornell, for example is quite academic while still having a more well-rounded atmosphere than somewhere like NYU yet still being heavily recruited. They're also pretty generous for financial aid, or so I've heard. There are a ton of other options too, so check 'em out.
Go with UNC unless you can get a large amount of aid from Stern. Even if you come out of school with a great job, wouldn't it be nice to have no debt? Working at a bulge bank I found that for every Ivy League managing director I meet there are 3 that went to Rutgers or an equivalent. Get a 4.0 at UNC and you can get any job you want. Big companies are machines, so it's all about working the system. HR's first filter is GPA. I've seen interns that went to community college get recruited for the best analyst positions because they had high overall GPA. Check out Gladwell's David and Goliath for other examples of this phenomenon.
I find it very hard to believe that CC students were hired to top firms because their overall GPA is higher. You do know that it isn't uncommon to graduate CC with a 4.0? Additionally, CCs are vastly easier than any top 30 school.
you'll see the world out there pretty soon.
Just found the PDF on David and Goliath. TRULY eye opening.
Just the statistic on when two sides go to war, one with 10X the army, they only win 70% of the time. And when the smaller one uses unconventional warfare, the smaller one wins over 60% of the time.
Inspiring.
It seems like your mind is already made up (to apply for Stern). It also seems like you just want someone to approve of your decision and/or provide you with some ideas to hedge against the downsides (mostly financial related).
Pros and Cons of applying for Stern: Pros: city life, well-established finance program, "new" Cons: debt, stuck in Stern (i.e. NYU outside of Stern is not really known for anything).
Pros and Cons of applying for UNC: Pros: cheap, good b-school Cons: you don't want to live in the South
So let's say you make the call and do Stern. The first question you want to ask is "do I really want what I say I want from Stern? (i.e. city life)." Sometimes people fall into trap of thinking "grass is greener on the other side." Maybe the grass on the other side is the city life. Make sure you understand your preferences. If you confirm your preferences, then ask the question: is the extra $ worth the 4 years of college life in NYC? Remember, it's only 4 years of college. You can get to NYC from both UNC and Stern upon graduation.
Say you confirm your preferences and also think that the extra $ is worth the 4 years of NYC college experience. Then, the question is, "is it the best idea to do early decision (binding) to Stern?" From what I understand, UNC is early action (non-binding). Can you wait it out and apply for Stern regular round? What is the downside of that? Do you get less financial aid or is it that much more difficult to get in? If financial aid is the same, but more difficult to get in, do you have the qualifications to mark regular round Stern as a safety school?
To me, your preference for Stern is very clear. It's now the question of what is your risk appetite. If you are a banker (i.e. risk-adverse), you should probably apply for UNC early and then Stern regular. If you're like a hedge fund guy (i.e. riskier), you should probably apply for Stern and realize that there is a ton of downside. If you do go to Stern with a bad financial aid package, just remember that now you have to work that much harder to make up for that $ and that you have limited options (which shouldn't be a problem if you are only aiming for banking).
I just worry that as a high school student, you might "think" you'd like to live in the city and that you might "think" you'd like to do banking. Also, do a reality check on your stats and whatnot too. You claim yourself to be a type-A person, but unless you are at the top of your class with at least 2250+ SAT, I'd be worried that you call yourself a type-A. College is a whole new pool. Unless you come from a highly competitive high school, I'd really do a reality check and make sure that you are indeed type-A and that you can keep up that mindset. The worst thing that can happen is you go to Stern, give up half way, get a shitty GPA, don't make into high finance, and end up with a shitton of debt.
Thank you so, so much for this write-up.
Few points to address: 1. I guess this is more of a validation of my choice rather than an actual decision. 2. In regards to visiting both schools, I have. I loved Stern a lot more than UNC. I've actually visited UNC numerous times and on all occasions I just didn't feel comfortable there. I'm not entirely sure why that's the case, but it simply is how I feel. 3. The total debt coming out of Stern could total $100k. Obviously, an exorbitant amount, and I acknowledge that. That is certainly the biggest factor holding me back. It is a huge amount of money, especially to be being while living in NYC. Granted, on the other hand, I consider it to be worth it for what a Stern degree can unlock for one (ie: job opps, alumni network, top finance education, incredible networking opps). As I've stated, UNC is no slouch, but it really doesn't even seem to compare to what Stern offers. Additionally, I really do not think I will enjoy a traditional college experience. I've never really been into the bigger aspects of it. Overall, I just don't see myself personally enjoying my time at a large state school in a college town. 4. Honestly, I know it is the common response that college kids change their mind a number of times in regards to what they want to do. I won't say it is guaranteed that I want to do the same exact thing in 4 years, but I know for a fact it will be in finance, be it IB, AM, HF, PE, etc. It truly interests me, and I can't imagine doing anything else. The only thing that could be considered is possibly startup entrepreneurship, but NYU still wins out as it has one of the best startup/entrepreneurship labs/programs in the country, especially with NYC VC and PE funds right there.
I mean, I've run this through a million ways in my mind. The debt is a huge issue. I acknowledge that, but what is obtainable by taking on that debt truly seems worth it to me. I know I will get a ton of people saying that I don't acknowledge the severity and scale of that debt, and I agree. I truly don't know the absolute severity of the debt. I know it will be a significant burden, but I'm willing to take the risk, especially if it means I'm that much closer to getting where I want to be.
Dude, you have no idea what you're getting into. This post honestly reminds me of myself, 3 years ago. I ended up applying ED to Stern, and received around 10k a year but I would still have to pay over 50k a year to attend. i ended up backing out of my ED agreement and now I'm on track to graduate with 0 debt and an offer in consulting in hand. You think you like Stern, but you haven't seen the other side at all. You like the idea of Stern. What you don't see is the ultra competitiveness of Stern due to the Stern Curve which caps the percentage of A's and B's handed out. You also don't see that all the people who ended up with IB jobs took part time jobs at a shitty or no pay during the school year on top of their school work. You don't see the stress that the students all have. I have friends who attended Stern and they told me there was no sense of community because everyone is competing against each other. Okay, I get that you don't like to party, drinking, or Greek life. Then what else is there to do? All they do at Stern is work/study and go out to clubs and bars. Are you just going to study for 4 years and not make any friends?
If you like being thrown in the real world at 18 years old, accruing $65k in debt per year, living in a brutal city, then it may be for you.
But let me tell you something and this is what I'm glad I realized early, there's so much more to life than IBD. Let's say you get into Stern and everything goes perfect. You end up with a 3.7 GPA+ and land a BB IBD offer and you take it. You will save literally $0 for the next 4 years as that all goes to paying student loans, rent in NYC, taxes, etc. Then, you will take out even more loans for an MBA. At this time, you'll be in your late 20's with no savings and no friends. I've seen people go down this road and they all seem sad. But it's too late for them because they can't get out.
Anyways, I'm not trying to change your mind. Just know what your getting yourself into and don't be surprised when the glamour of NYC and Stern disappoints.
Why not look at Emory, Tulane or Vandy? I mean it's not Stern or bust. Also you talk about living in the South your entire life, but in all honesty it's hugely different in places like Atlanta, Nashville or Nee Orleans
Not to mention his other local school - Duke
If someone is applying to Stern and UNC, I doubt Duke is in the cards.
Why you would want to go to a school like NYU for undergrad is beyond me. Shitty non-existent campus, ugly girls, not a true college experience in my opinion. You can have the NYC experience once you graduate and get a job. Go enjoy college
Best part about living in NYC while in undergrad would be to go out to clubs and do fun nightlife or broadway things. OP doesn't drink and doesn't have extra $$ so what is the point of paying $$$ for housing and living expenses without the upside. If you're going to be a hermit in either spot you can easily get a 3.8+ at KF so just save money now and then when you're an adult you can enjoy all those things without the burden of debt
If you want NY IB, go to Stern.
Stern is a target where you can network your whole collegiate career.
I am somewhat speaking from experience as I am at a non-target in a big city which has allowed me to network and work much more than my competition at target schools and it is really starting to pay off.
Debt is always a consideration, but if you go into IB you won't have the time to worry about your scold debt until your first bonus when you pay if off.
Most of all, if you are a finance guy and not into liberal arts and one has a finance program and the other one has a liberal arts program, well...
Are you joking? A first year IBD analyst bonus after tax can pay off 4 years of accrued debt from NYU, the most expensive school in the nation?
Are you joking? A first year IBD analyst bonus after tax can pay off 4 years of accrued debt from NYU, the most expensive school in the nation?
"If someone is applying to Stern and UNC, I doubt Duke is in the cards" - What? Stern acceptance rate is like 12% and Duke acceptance rate is 9%. Not a big discrepancy and Stern is more of a self-selective pool of applicants who want undergrad business education. I picked Stern over Duke and several other top schools as have many of my friends and at least for me, it was a very easy decision.
I just want to say how much Stern has helped me with my career opportunities. People complain about having to do internships to be competitive. You should do internships because you want to learn and experience diff areas before you graduate so you have an idea of what you like, not because you want to be competitive. These internships are 1) a giving you legitimate experience you can talk about in future interviews and 2) a possible business connection you can rely on in the future.
I've had some of bosses from these internships make calls for me and introduce me to their networks and get me interviews. I've also received competitive offers (BBs, EBs, etc.) just because people were blown away with my internship experiences, how much knowledge I've accumulated through them and how easily I was able to converse with VPs and MDs because of these experiences.
UNC is a good school also - if you do very well there (3.7+) you will be fine, but Stern will def open more doors.
Do you think it is worth it to commit to $100k+ in debt by applying ED to Stern or just waiting till the RD round and waiting for all my decisions to roll in?
bump
go to Stern please. I will be on the lookout to not trade your junk yield student loans, because you'd even allow strangers on WSO to decide your life. sad but funny!
lol you're such an asshat. On that metric, should I ask no one for any opinions on anything because I'm putting the decisions of my life into the hands of others? You're a twat. God forbid I come to a board filled with what I believe to be experienced people to hear what they have to saw about a decision that I've had quite an issue coming to a conclusion on. I'm not making my absolute decision on anything anyone is saying here, but I like to hear people's opinions. Still not entirely sure what the fuck you are babbling on about in this thread.
Stern ($80k-100k in debt) vs UNC (in-state) (Originally Posted: 07/28/2015)
I'm considering both of these schools, as a rising senior. I love both schools, and BB IB is where I want to end up, whether it's in Miami or NYC (just a range of places). Stern and UNC are two schools I'm considering. Stern offers me everything I want, and I would love to live in NYC for college, but I would have to take out a significant amount of loans to attend ( possibly adding up to six figure by the time I graduate). Performing well there would allow me to get anywhere I want in NYC finance. On the other hand, I can just go to UNC in-state and pay less than $10k/yr with no debt. UNC seems a bit weak on NYC IB placement though. Granted it's a top public, but it seems to be more of a fringe target/semi target school, placing more into Charlotte/Atlanta with only the top, top kids going to NYC IB. I know rule 1 of going to college is not to take out loans and rule 2 is not to plan out your future and align those plans with your school choice. I seem to be breaking both of these rules by going to Stern. I am a high-stat URM with great ECs, so it would be very likely that I am admitted to both of these schools, especially UNC in-state. I just sort of feel that going to UNC (where pretty much anyone at my school who performs decently academically and gets at least an 1800 SAT gets into) is sort of a blow to all the effort I've put into high school. Stern is the highest caliber school (with possibly Cornell, which I don't want to go to) that is the best for BB finance. I don't really qualify for any top 10 USNWR schools and the Top 30 ones I qualify for are WashU, Cornell (not really interested in it), Northwestern (don't want to go to, as well), UND, Emory, UNC and possibly UVA.
So, based on that sort of unnecessary long post, should I go to Stern and get top-notch NYC Finance placement, but take out a lot in loans or go to UNC and risk going to a semi-target, but go for very cheap? Thanks.
UNC without a doubt. Do well there and you'll find it very easy to get placed in Charlotte/ATL and shouldn't have too tough a time getting placed in NYC. UNC offers better weather, actual D1 sports, solid greek life, and overall a better college experience.
It really is a no-brainer.
While it may be super easy to get into from an instate perspective, UNC is incredibly hard to gain admittance from out of state. Personally, I would pick UNC. It places well in all aspects of business and has plenty of alum on the street. Besides that, it is a sick school with great D1 sports, hot woman, and a great social scene. If I were you (UNC was also one of my dream schools) I would take UNC in a heartbeat.
I did not go to UNC, but know plenty of people who did. Maybe times have changed in the past year or two, but from my friends and fellow analysts who went to UNC, I always thought of UNC as a target. Definitely not at the level of HSW, but still a target for most BBs and pretty much every MM.
Who would pay this debt? If you are responsible for it (i.e. your parents are not chipping in), think of it this way: if you broke into banking, you would working almost two years just to pay back the debt if you take cost of living in NY into consideration. Stern is a great school, but so is UNC. This is not like deciding between UT-San Antonio and Wharton. Good luck.
unc no brainer
It would probably be best to wait and see what kind of money they offer, not to mention finding out if you get in or not
Architecto at est laboriosam sed nobis. Eius perferendis inventore animi consequuntur inventore accusamus eligendi reiciendis. At omnis perferendis consequatur facilis. Quaerat aut tenetur alias rerum veritatis.
Vel quia officiis deserunt nobis. Fuga fuga odit incidunt id.
Voluptates error deserunt quas quia. Ipsum voluptate occaecati laborum officia id odit. Qui quia et assumenda consequuntur omnis. Consequatur est aut assumenda et.
Veniam libero ut accusantium quibusdam neque esse perspiciatis tempora. Et sed in corrupti. Vero quis laborum quod exercitationem. Ullam eaque id consequuntur molestiae deserunt commodi ullam. Fuga est aut explicabo perferendis esse adipisci asperiores est.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Omnis officiis aut laudantium nobis. Ipsa cumque nam eum perspiciatis eius enim voluptatem. Aut repellendus et veritatis eum cupiditate aperiam rerum. Corrupti mollitia eaque rerum et neque voluptate amet. Ducimus natus enim eaque in consequatur placeat excepturi.
Consequuntur maiores quam placeat facilis dolor. Maxime tempora ipsum tempora dolore. Sed sunt laborum aut. Possimus voluptatibus voluptas sed. Fugit veritatis et ex sed iusto maiores quo. Soluta consequatur repellat repudiandae aut at dolorem sint.
Ratione possimus repellendus exercitationem rerum ab rem. Nesciunt esse eos laudantium qui omnis ipsam velit. Occaecati beatae officiis eum tempora aut. Magnam fugiat soluta accusantium consequuntur.
Id et ipsum necessitatibus distinctio in veritatis a. Quo rerum fugiat aut quo. Architecto voluptatibus commodi totam a quas. Accusamus voluptas consequuntur a et velit. Dolores tempora commodi et laboriosam et. Mollitia nulla molestiae maiores et aspernatur.