Getting a job on wall street from Community College
Hello all,
I currently am a first year freshman at a community college. I know, a lot of people think community college is for idiots and so on, but either ways here goes. My back up plan is to transfer to UC Berkeley or UCLA if I can't get into an ivy league from transfer, which is insanely hard. Oh and my major would be economics and biochem. And yes, Im taking advanced level classes.
GPA: 4.0
Internships: UCSF Medical Research Intern- Set to publish 2 papers over the summer, and 1 clinical research paper.
Extracurriculars: I have started a Finance Club at my school, which educates people about stocks, bonds, forex, options, and various other market instruments.
Work Experience: Currently am working at Wells Fargo on weekends.
Was recommended by my English teacher to tutor english kids, currently do that for 4 hours a week.
As a frehsman theres still more time to beef up my resume? Any suggestions, criticisms? Anything that can make me a better candidate would be very helpful.
What was your original reason for enrolling at a community college? Poor high school grades?
I didn't get into the top level schools, only managed to get into mid level UCs, and I figured if I could do well in CC I could get into UCB and maybe even something better. I know it may not have been the best choice but we all have to start somewhere.
Most people in community college lack the talent and ambition to survive at a mid-level UC, so doing well among them shows a recruiter nothing. It's like beating a bunch of 6 year olds in basketball and then applying to the NBA.
I hate self advertising but check out the-comprehensive-list-of-transfer-friendly-schools-for-investment-banking. This is going to be your best bet to transfer to the best one you can get into. It's definitely not impossible to break in from a community college, some people might look at it the wrong way, but if you build a story that's interesting enough I think people will overlook it. Given that you've transferred by the time you are applying to banking/finance jobs.
Great thread, thanks. I'm also a CC student looking to transfer out next year, and while I've been sort of narrow-minded in my focus on transfer schools this is a good list of alternatives with some solid numbers too.
Was so quick to reply to SouthernAlpha I skipped over the OP completely.
I'm also a freshman at a CC right now, similar goals it seems. I'd say you're doing pretty well right now, the only thing I have in mind would be more finance related activities- internships, classes, case studies, as well as a leadership position or two. As it stands I'm looking to transfer with a 3.8+, founder of a finance/investing club, leadership roles in Circle K, SGA & Black Student Alliance, economic research internship for the school... if I can think of anything else to do I'll let you know.
Yeah. I have set up some internships at some PWM firms. Im doing econ and biochem as my major so ill have a host of economics/ finance classes that I will do. Thanks a lot man. We should keep in touch.
Granted I don't have BB recruiting knowledge, but I doubt anyone except the most elitist circles are going to care that you started at a community college. On the other hand strong grades, extracurriculars, and recommendations from your community college experience can open up a lot of doors that you might have had if your high school profile was weak.
Hey, I'm in the same shoes as you, I currently am at a community college in SoCal and am looking to transfer to UClA. I am going into my sophomore year, by the way congratulations on all the work experience and interns you already got going as a freshman. If I may ask what school do you go to, if we happen to go to the same school I would be interested in joining your finance club, I have been trading stocks since February and love it, mainly commodities and derivatives.
How are community college transfers to ivies viewed on the street? (Originally Posted: 05/21/2010)
How are community college students that transfer to ivy league schools as juniors viewed by wall street?
Didn't know that was even possible but I suppose it's legit if you can swing it. I knew a community college kid who transferred to Michigan State (obvious non target) and was hired straight from UG at Citi in NY. When the economy went to shit some of the analysts in his class were given the option to transfer or risk having their offer rescinded so he transferred to trading I believe in Chicago... so Idk if he can do it then surely a transfer to an ivey can do it. I think it just makes for a great interview story about how hard you worked and how you wanted to get there, etc. Although it depends why you were in community college maybe? He couldn't get into MSU at first so rather than go to an easier 4-year school he opted to do community college right next door so he could be up on campus, etc and then transfer after a year or two... If you were just doing community college to take all the easy intro courses, etc then it may not be such a great story.. just my thoughts
trollin'
I've got a somewhat similar question for all you bankers/consultants/whatever people. I'm a non-traditional student (23, went back to school at 22, will graduate at 26). I'm transferring to UVA in Spring of '11 from a CC. I worked for a couple years after college (first at Starbucks to pay the bills, then at a Logistics company, went from dock hand to Ops Manager in a year and a half). I'm curious as to how you all would look at me having not gone the traditional route, AND I did shitty in high school, too. Now I've got a 3.65, will be around a 3.75 after this semester, and plan on getting a 4.0 at UVA.
Looking for any advice/suggestions on self-improvement as well, I definitely have gaps in my education that I'm trying to fill.
Once you transfer, I don't know why you would list the CC on your resume...
This. I didn't put my cc on my resume after I transferred to a target. My grades were just a little shy of IB and I didn't apply because of the hours (I'm already 26) but I did land a BB risk position. In a better economy I'm pretty confident I could have landed IB if I wanted it, though.
Just transfer and don't put it on your resume. Plenty of fuck ups at CC, but also plenty of smart kids who simply cannot afford to go to a 4 year right off the bat. A transfer is a transfer.
if you don't put it on your resume, how do you explain the 2 year gap from HS to college?
You don't need to address the two year gap, at least until they ask for transcripts. On your resume only put your graduation date and forget about the CC.
Okay, thanks for the advice
its fine. just whatever you do don't mention it nor put it on your resume. somethings are better left unsaid.
Also, why even put your high school on your resume, i mean unless you went to andover or exeter, its totally useless information.
Going to a CC isn't necessarily about being a screw up. I know people who started off at CC and transferred simply BC they were noticing a whole lot of kids graduating from Targets and their debt being as high or higher than their salary for the first few years.. CC transfer gives you the same Target diploma but at half the cost. Even if someone does ask in an interview, just tell them to shut their piehole (obviously in a friendly interview way).
Frankly, when I went to Syracuse I took classes at the 100-200 level from PhD students. Nothing like dropping 50K per year to learn from people who are going to school themselves. Who cares where you go to school, it is where you end up that matters.
Community college or not, if you transfer at all and the first school isn't well known then there is absolutely no reason to put it on a resume.
Also you'd have to be crazy to put your high school on your resume.
Okay, well I guess that's not going on my resume. And I wish I could say I'm doing it to save money, when in fact the case is I dicked around in HS and failed out of 3 schools straight out of HS. But w/e, I'm kicking ass and taking names now.
RiskyBizness, so you already graduated/got a job? Did you feel at all unprepared at the 4-year you went to and if so what if anything did you do about it?
I played baseball at a top CC (for baseball) and all the team could of went to better schools but came for the baseball program.. national runners up in the two years I was there... hands down the best choice for a baseball exp... so dont think all cc are filled with dumb asses... dont get me wrong... it was so easy fuking the dumb 19 year old's that were in school cause they didnt have anything else to do.
Introduction - From community college to IB (Originally Posted: 12/11/2013)
Currently attend community college, looking to transfer to an Ivy League or University of Miami for mathematics and finance. End goal: to become a quant. Any tips and ideas are welcome.
i dont think itll matter if u go to ivy. Get in a program with solid engineering, math, and stats. In my experience, ugrad econ/finance is worthless for what you will do as a quant. Prob if u want to make a career out of it ull prob need a mfin.
yeah, I was thinking about mostly going with math as the main major and having finance as a minor or perhaps a double major. Have you heard anything about the University of Miami by any chance?
So you want to be a quant, do you know how to do calc in your head?
@heister not as well as I would like to yet, but that's not a problem considering I still got about three more years of math schooling. Do you have any tips by any chance?
you can PM me / ask me any questions you want, I transferred from a CC to an ivy as a math major this semester! :-) my advice would be to make sure you get a 4.0. I only know a couple other CC transfers at my school, and we all had 4.0's. also helps if you have a good reason why you were at a CC instead of a better school. make sure you do loads of really time consuming activities outside of school (and if you don't already, START NOW!)
the most important part of your transfer app is your essay. try and write about why the ivy is the only place that will meet your needs (e.g. because of special academic programs or classes offered there, etc.), also make sure you get across that you've done loads of extracurricular stuff while working (ideally full-time or close to that) and maintaining a 4.0.
I definitely will! Thank you!
community college to IB (Originally Posted: 02/28/2010)
I am currently a freshman attending a community college in SF/Bay Area. I was able to graduate from high school two years early through the CHSPE program. I want to get into the IB industry and I figure its an uphill battle comming from a CC so for the summer, I would like to get some sort of internship at anywhere thats related to the Finance Industry and I'm wondering what the best way to go about doing that would be given that I have no previous work experience?
Since I live in right between SF and Silicon Valley there are many firms related to consulting, finance, wealth management, etc. should I just make a list of firms and cold call them? what should I do? Thanks in advance.
So how old are you right now? If you graduated 2 years early why not just focus on getting a 4.0 and transferring to a top college.
Definitely get a 4.0 and transfer to a school with recruitment.
A friend of mine did just that: got a 4.0 at a CC, transferred to an Ivy, and got a job at a mid-tier BB.
I want to do something for this summer. My GPA is definitely in the high 3.0's, and Im 17. Ideally i'd want to go to a LAC and get a double major in economics and the classics so Claremont Mckenna as it the top of my list. As far as I know Dartmouth dosen't accept transfers and WIlliams accepts less than 10, and Amherst isn't too robust in either of those areas.
UCB is a ridiculously easy transfer for in-state CC kids. It's a decent backup if you don't transfer into a better target.
Hey, nice to see another potential transfer student on here. If I were you, I'd shoot for a PWM internship at a BB. Its a good way to show an interest in finance and solid resume builder.
how difficult would be to get a PWM internship given my circumstances and especially a BB, how do you think something like that would look if it was from a much smaller firm?
Not that hard just look up local BB firms in your area and see if they need any help. Idk about smaller firms but at the BB PWM I'm at right now there are some CC students.
btw What are your stats?
transfer to top tier school and get wealth management internship this summer
Should people include their community college on their resume after they graduate from a 4 year university?
No
@ibdreamer if by stats you mean GPA im at ~3.8/3.9
So how would a PWM internship look from a non-BB place? and how would i go about getting one?
I was at a CC, it wasn't on my resume but I brought it up during my story in interviews. I transfered to a good non target got a 3.9 gpa and networked like everyone else. I accepted my BB SA offer this morning.
I wanna get into IB... currently in community college (Originally Posted: 08/30/2008)
I was gonna post this in the I-Banking Bulletin but thought it'd be better to post here. I'm 18 and about to finish my 2nd year of cc with a 3.2 gpa. I didn't really try and let family and financial problems affect me too much and I think I may have to retake many of the classes to try and get a 4.0 or something close. I've heard and read many times that GPA is very important in getting a job in this field so retaking some classes would be the smart thing to do, right?
I'm and accounting major now and was planning on becoming an accounting/finance double major but after reading so much here I feel like it doesn't really matter since IB firms recruit all types of graduates and just want a high GPA and make sure the person is very analytical (if that makes any sense at all). Should I go for accounting/finance or something else, hypothetically which would be the best possible major, Math?
Which schools should I try to transfer to and would it be a realistic goal coming from community college? I've heard many times that where you get your 4 year degree doesn't matter as much as where you get your Masters, true? do many I-bankers get their 4 years from some ok school and try to go Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Wharton/MIT for their masters because that's most important?
I think that you should get your GPA to as close to a 4.0 as possible and transfer to a semi-target if you can do better then great. Then, I think that its possible to enter IB, but I'd doubt it be a BB. Also, where you get your degree does MATTER ESPECIALLY in IB its nonsense whoever told you that "Oh well Harvard doesn't mean success" is a complete LIAR. Yes, Harvard doesn't mean guaranteed success but it sure as hell means a better chance of getting significantly better paid jobs than some no-name state school student. Finally, don't even think that you're going to get accepted to a master at Harvard, MIT, or Yale because quite frankly ya have pretty crappy grades in a pretty crappy institution. First, work your ass off and get a high ass hell GPA then start thinking of transferring then start thinking of IB.
All I can say is good luck.
Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend
ya, get a 4.0 GPA... and try your best to make yourself outstanding in other ways.
Hi Cap,
It definitely can be done and has been done.
As stated, you have to think about getting into a very good to great 4 yr university/college. I gather you have 2 more semesters left at your current CC? As noted, you have to do everything you can to raise your grades and apply to a vast amt of schools. In comparison, I graduated with a 3.5 from a CC and got into respectable schools like NYU, as well as a few other NY schools that feed into Wall Street. Others did better than me and got into top 10 schools, which ideally is the goal. Don't retake CC classes, they won't mean shit and your CC GPA won't mean anything either. Once you transfer, you start your GPA from scratch and banks will only care about your new GPA.
I would stick with accounting and finance. IB is a great deal of accounting anyways. Make sure you take some computer related electives- CIS, MIS, financial modeling would be ideal. Even though IB's may take any major, I feel this setup may help you out best and give you other opportunities in finance.
Make no mistake- A great number of those in BB IB's graduate from top undergrad schools. That is why it is key that you do well with your remaining time. I would talk to a dean to find where you may be able to transfer. Don't worry about your MBA right now.
Really, you just saved yourself a great deal of $$, but it is only worth it if you can get yourself into a descent school, so focus on that. Once you do that, kick ass in your Jr year and get an internship the summer going into senior.
Best of luck!
I graduated from a CC as well, however me being in FL limited me to only be able to go to a FL University. I decided to go to UNF because of the major the college of business offers there (Finance focus in Investments) which I was told by a charter holder can be applied towards the LVL 1 Exam for the CFA institute. I plan on trying to get into Boston University for the "Masters in Investment Management" degree they offer. That program is there for a full-time worker that is interested in a CFA charter and they complete the lvl 1 & 2 exam at BU. FYI the professors for those courses are fellow CFA charter holders. I was also thinking about taking a summer class at The Swiss Academy of Finance, and if for some reason I wouldn't be accepted to BU I will also apply to HKU (I plan to move to HK after all my studies). I also need help because I don't know if this would be the right path for me to follow. For the record, I really would like to work at the research desks on buy or sell side.
stigma of community college (Originally Posted: 04/23/2013)
.
Absolutely.
I'm not an expert on the interview process - I'm going to be a summer intern - so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think it'd be great to mention. Friends of mine have done that and I think it shows some incredible determination and overcoming adversity depending on your situation (some of my friends couldn't afford college, so went to community and worked to save up, then transferred). I'd have a lot of respect for that.
I wouldn't mention it! You can argue how you couldn't afford college but there are kids who figure out how to get a boat load of scholarships without being any extraordinary. Truth is you just have to apply and there are plenty of people willing to hand you some cash for tax-credits, PR, etc...
I still think it's smart to go and save on tuition though if you are in such a position.
I wouldn't do it. Too many pricks out there that would look down on you for it. There might be some people that would like you for it, but IMHO i just think that there is more downside to it than upside. I mentioned many instances of how I was able to overcome adversity during recruiting season (overcoming siblings death during the recruiting season, non target etc.) and it seemed like that the adversity story just did not resonate. Many of these interviewers are jaded people, so load it with prestige. Community college does not equal prestige. Just know your stuff and I think that's really what matters. This could also depend on the firm that you are interviewing with. Places like MS, UBS, Barcap seem to not give as much shit about who you truly are compared to places like Jefferies or Baird. Are you at a target now?
It really depends on who you're interviewing with and where. Are you at a Target school now? If so, then I would probably mention it, I think it really speaks to your determination and its impressive to switch from a Community target to a great school. If you just moved up to a State U, theres no shame in that, but its probably not worth mentioning as its not as rare. Again, its a tough question to answer because it really depends on who you get in the interviews.
I would not. When I screened resumes I wouldn't interview kids that went to CCs. I knew it was way easier to go to a CC and transfer into whatever college than to get in out of HS. I don't see the upside but do see the downside of mentioning it.
It's hard to say. There are some very elitist people in this business. You can read this forum for 5 minutes and figure that out. So it's a toss up, it could either be viewed very positively as demonstrating a bootstrapping mentality (which earns a lot of points with the right kind of interviewer), or it could be viewed as an indelible marker of how totally common and irrevocably doomed to mediocrity you are ("Dude, you didn't go to Harvard? Kill yourself").
From my own experience, I would say far more people in the industry are elitist fucks than not, so you should probably play your cards close to the vest. It never seems to end really. I interviewed with this fund a couple of months ago -- this supposedly "elite" $2B hedge fund staffed by Wharton people. The first question one of the partners asked me was about how I went to a state school (strike one against them -- I have 7 years of experience, including 5 at one of the best funds in the country, where I went to school is not relevant). The funny thing was we had to reschedule the interview because their largest position blew up and was 20% down intraday LOOOOL. Way to go, you guys are super elite!! I didn't even take the rescheduled interview, it was a waste of my time.
But yeah, your best bet is to play to the prestige status quo that defines most of this backwards industry. I got sick of dealing with it and decided to launch my own fund instead.
Nothing wrong with community college. But people who do go that route end up missing the "college experience" and you only get to go through that part of your life once.
I went to a CC and I never mentioned it in interviews. Too many people look down on it, and it can be easier then getting in from HS (wouldn't say that's always true, though -- the school I transferred to had an acceptance rate from HS of ~20%, but the transfer rate for my major was ~8%).
Definitely would not say it, in my opinion. I see a couple ways it could help you and a ton of ways it could hurt you.
Don't bring it up. My school had a lot transfers, and it's pretty well-known that it's MUCH easier to get in after 2 years of CC than straight out of undergrad, so there's a fair amount of resentment. It'd be a ding for me, unless you KILLED it after transferring.
Talk about your family's yacht and the places that you summer at. They'll appreciate the fact that you come from a worthy family a lot more than some bs story about how you had to work hard to get to where you are at.
Spent a year and a half at CC. Never mentioned it in interviews. I think it's really a preference thing.
Some people will immediately discredit you, others will admire getting to where you are. That being said, I only know two people that would be considered "successful" after making the transition; myself, and someone from my old group at BB. All about how you sell it.
I wouldn't mention it, I just had an interview at a corp bank and it did seem that their tone changed when I said I transferred from a cc. Mind you this office was full of Columbia and Cornell grads, I went to a semi-target.
No, based on how I observe people discussing CC.
I've seen people start at community colleges end up at BB's, so it's definitely not out of the question. Some people are going to judge you for it, and you have to accept that. That being said, if you can craft a story that's better mentioning the CC then I'd go for it. For summer internships if you have a good story and know your shit, I doubt people are going to say "he had a great personality / knew what he was talking about, but damn, he went to a CC".
i came from a CC and transferred to a strong semi-target...i never have mentioned it during all my FT interviews and the bank i'll be starting at FT in the summer doesnt knw that i transferred either lol i personally think it can hurt you > help you because their logic would be why didnt you end up at the school in the first place where the other kids on OCR all got into your school directly out of high school
sure you can play it and show you are determined and worked harder etc. but they will most likely judge you for it and consider you a risk IMO
I don't know whether you should mention it or not but anyone who judges someone for doing CC then transferring is ridiculous.
I would not mention it mostly because of many people looking down on it. But I see that it might have few advantages but definitely more disadvantages.
Depends on who you're talking to.
In Sales and Trading, it will sometimes help more than it will hurt. If you do reasonably well on the technical part of the interview, the SUNY or UVA or UIUC alumn will clench his fists and say "We've got to hire a scrappy guy like this."
Prop shops tend to have scrappier cultures than banks. This may play better there than at a BB.
In IBD, if the guy sitting across the table from you is a Yale undergrad, HBS alumn, I'm not sure how it will play. I wouldn't try to hide it- scrapping it out at a community college for a few years will always be part of who you are, but I wouldn't sell it too hard. Focus on your similarities rather than your differences and try to find common ground with the group that's interviewing you rather than trying to find differences.
Personally, I wouldn't care if you were educated by chimpanzees as long as I thought you were the best candidate for the job. But I'm probably in the minority.
tread carefully, feel out the interviewer first.
Remember that not everyone goes to CC just because they couldn't get into good schools out of high school, more and more kids are choosing the route because of monetary reasons. There's nothing stupid about saving 50-100k over 2 years.
I agree. I would be one of the interviewers who looked at someone who graduated with a lot of AP credit, went to Hudson County Community College for two years, and transferred to Rutgers and say "smart kid".
However, SAT scores and AP scores (as well as college GPAs) are going to be important differentiating factors between just smart/thrifty and high school fuckup. If they paint a "just thrifty" picture, be sure to list those on your resume if you list community college.
General advice, if your goal is front office at a major bank, it's almost worth the extra $10k of in-state tuition to transfer in-state after one year rather than two. One semester isn't much GPA for us to go off of, and outside a 3.9 or 4.0 GPA at the community college, we will have to discount some of those grades due to uncertainties about what an A- means at a community college we're not familiar with. Two or three semesters paints a much better picture.
DEFINITELY NOT BRO. I'm from an area where the community college is considered one of the best in the country and my friends and I in high school would say the acronym of the school with a "k" for college because we considered the kids who went there were considered idiots who failed at life. I realize that's not the case and it's in fact cheaper and easier, but unless you can display your acumen in the interview, and as a result convince them that you went there only for the cost benefit, stay silent.
Don't mention it. It is very unlikely to be helpful in job recruiting. Most people in finance come from solid homes with solid high school GPAs and attend good colleges. There will be many, maybe even most, that won't be able to comprehend why someone would go to a community college. Where I'm from, CC is much more common and many people do it just to save money. The difference is, they are nurses and cops and not interviewing for jobs in high finance.
I would say the one caveat is if you transferred out to a really good target school afterwards and you have a legit reason for being there in the first place.
Regards
As others said, its probably not a good idea. CC isn't really going to help you win any prestige compared to your peers who did the traditional route.
And this is why social skills are everything. If you go to a BB super day, you may have 6 consecutive interviews. Some of those people will be sympathetic to your CC story and some won't, but to be successful you will need to read personalities quickly and tailor your story to exactly what they want to hear.
It's impossible to get a feel for someone by just shaking their hand with everyone is wearing a suit. So how do you open up about this when he or she is starts out with "So tell me about yourself"(this is where I'd assume you'd bring up CC)... and if you decide to talk about CC, they aren't going to verbalize whether they dig it or not.
I go to a non-target and also take some required courses like Phys. Ed. Through a local CC. As far as getting into a 4yr university straight out of HS, it really was not difficult for me at all... Met the top tier GPA in high school and it was a guaranteed admission :/ I still take classes at the local CC because tuition is half price and some of these courses I really don't care much about. I got an internship with a REPE firm this summer and didn't mention that I also take some classes at the CC in the interview because they didn't ask. Probably would have mentioned it if they did, but I try to keep things pretty general in my interviews. While I dislike the elitist status quo of the industry, I can see why some people look down on CCs since it takes every bit of my energy not to fall asleep in my CC classes. There's also a lot of... Lost souls in CC classes who like to be very vocal about their... Ignorance. I always try my best not to look down on others but sitting in these classes really tests my patience. I'm sure not all CCs are like that but this is the experience I get with the CC in my town.
You have to own where you're from and your situation.
I wouldn't market it too hard; I'm not going to tell the kid to run away from it. I went to Illinois. People ask me in interviews, "You had great SAT scores; you could have gone anywhere. Why a state school?"
Because I didn't have as much money as colleges thought my parents had.
There are a lot of advantages to having been through a community college. And sometimes it doesn't hurt in an interview. In an IBD interview, however, it will generally hurt more than it will help. This is IBD's failure, not the failure of students who attended community colleges.
Scrappy backgrounds hurt less for S&T. To the guy who never graduated college and is surrounded by elitist college graduate douchebags, it will be a plus. To the STEM/Finance/Accy guy who went to a state school or Baruch, it will probably be a small plus, if you finished at a top 50-100 school and have a solid transcript. To the Yale Econ PhD, it will be a minus.
A lot of tech firms and tech roles won't care if you got your BA from DeVry. They'll care about whether or not you can code.
You can only afford to talk about your community college heritage once Forbes calls you for interviews. My perspective after 5 years in finance with early very non-target days that are no longer an issue (Forbes hasn't called yet though :/).
Anyways, once you have a bit of traction in the industry, moving up is almost exclusively based on how you kill it at your job.
I'm not sure it would help you, but I could see ways in which it could hurt you. However, the more important question is "does it matter"? You go to the school which you go to now- that's really the important thing here.
Definitely one of those "it depends" things. I didn't transfer from a CC but I did transfer from the CUNY system. Saying I transferred resonated with some folks, not with others. Most of the banks I interviewed with had their swag on maximum douche and probably counted it as a strike.
Don't say it. Why? Because who cares. This isn't AA. People get way too emotional with shit. Focus on your technical's, your hobbies, why banking, what you did from the school you received your bachelors from, etc.
IMO, last thing I want in a competition is pity and sympathy. And why would you deserve either? You went to CC for whatever reason, but it worked out because you are sitting across from the interviewer. Project confidence and move on.
If it's an interview with MS, don't even fucking mention going to a community college. MS is the most elitist bank on the street. MS will ding you for whatever the fuck they can.
I know some GS people in FIG that went to CC, transferred to a state school, networked like crazy, and got interviews.
Just don't mention it unless they ask about it
I don't think you should mention it unless they ask about all the community college classes on your transcript
Let me give you some advice, never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
These "elite" people that everyone here keeps talking about will be able to tell your background based on the way you talk, dress, and communicate so don't pretend to be something you are not. People may not like you, but if you are good at what you do and have integrity people will respect you. I would rather hire some community college, underdog scrub, then some spineless kid from Wharton.
Great advice from a person who's never hired (and probably never will hire) anyone.
That's great and all, but who says the person from Wharton is spineless? Really, that's sort of the point...your competition in these interviews are top notch and the interviewers were likely top notch. Never give them a reason to ding you. It's like the playoffs, you don't always have to be the best team in the league, you just need to stick around long enough to get a shot at the championship.
Regards
Thanks for all the feedback. I'll be sure to highlight my life changing experience through community college and how it drove my passion for finance.
JK
I spin a very similar narrative to the community college bootstrapping story in my interviews - with high levels of success. I find that nearly every fund that is willing to interview me in the first place is interested in / excited by my nontraditional story.
I can see this approach being less effective when you first come out of school - but as you progress through your career and get some relevant experience on the resume, my observation is that the nontraditional/entrepreneurial/selfstarting story will take you very far.
You're preaching to the choir. The community college underdog story would certainly resonate with me. But I think his point was made without having to mention the "spineless" Wharton kids. Unfortunately, a single word seems to have undermined the credibility of an otherwise solid post, at least in the eyes of some.
I don't really understand how going to CC and transferring is more "scrappy" than potentially being scrappy throughout high school, getting into a target/semi-target busting your ass there and getting a gig. Seems to be an over glamorization of the CC experience. Too many chips on people's shoulders. Nothing about that story to me is unique or overly interesting as to be in a banking position at a target/semi-target you have been scrappy as well.
Look, I got nothing against kids that did the CC route (got tons of friends that did) but I would argue that by and large the kids either 1. slacked in HS, 2. didn't get into their target school so backed doored it via CC, and/or 3. aren't at the same level as kids that go directly to targets straight from HS. Of course there are always exceptions but in my opinion based on my experience coming from a CC heavy state these are the general rules.
To remove that stigma just don't mention it in an interview. If you get a gig no one will care at that point because your will have proved yourself by then and gained respect. That is too hard to pull off in 30 minutes and too risky for the hiring decision makers.
Also, many students don't know they want to be bankers at 18, and many non-target schools blow the targets out of the water on different disciplines. UT Austin, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech blow the ivies out of the water on engineering. They're not target schools.
When you are trying to compare expensive watches with expensive sportbikes, and you don't really know much about expensive sportbikes but a lot about expensive watches, there are more exceptions than rules when you are talking about motorcycles. You're familiar with target schools but not with engineering schools. Don't bring it up, but if it does come up, embrace it- don't run from it. This is tough for a 21-year-old college student to execute on, so the second best advice is to read the other guy, and decide whether to go high vol (community college) or low vol (don't mention community college).I don't understand this?
Isn't everyone ignoring the fact that you would have gotten an AA degree then transferred to a four year school to get a BS?
Do you just leave the AA degree off of your resume?
You definitely leave the AA off of your resume and you take the degree of the school you graduate from.
I'm currently a grad student at a target Northeastern private school, but my proudest accomplishment (short of doing an engineering PhD at MIT or Stanford) will always be earning a bachelor's degree in CS from UIUC. If you transferred into CS at UIUC from a community college, and you managed to do well in the advanced courses (including CS 473), you deserve to list just UIUC on your degree.
I would take issue with someone who tried to include their community college GPA in their UIUC GPA.
I transferred from a CC to save money. I'm not proud or ashamed of it; it is what it is.
What I don't understand is the hate for people from prestigious schools.
I was brought to the U.S. by my mother, who is now a programmer. I had very little guidance growing up, no father, nobody in my family went to a U.S. university, etc. I fucked around and sold weed all through high school, graduated a semester early with a 3.3 or something, and started CC. I've worked since 15 to pay my way through college and am about to graduate with no debt and a fair safety net left over.
Only after my first semester of CC did I get my shit together, turned my life around, and started thinking about what I want to do in this life and what in the world is important to me.
The point of all of that is the following: My son will be raised by a successful, educated man. My son will be taught the value and importance of curiosity, education, and persistence; he'll understand why this is an amazing time to live in, an amazing country to live in, and overall, how incredible the phenomenon of humanity is.
I'll spare no expense in educating my son. He will be well-traveled, well-read, exposed to physics, mathematics, philosophy, music, and yes, high finance from an early age. And yes, if all goes according to plan, my son will go to a top university with an idea of what he wants to do with his education from the start.
So you stigmatize 'spineless Wharton kids' just because their parents care about them and are established in the U.S.?
That's the problem here. I have no problem with prestige. I do have issues with how people rank prestige on the list of life's most important things. (Also with how people rank money and power).
I don't have the best sense of my values or what I want out of life, but I get the sense that when people don't know what they want out of life or what their values are, they chase money, power, and prestige.
Part of solidifying quality values is that you have to learn that you're not important, that life is not about you, that you are not special, that life is a struggle and it's not always about punching tickets. This lesson is better taught somewhere that's relatively obscure or humble rather than at Harvard University.
I don't wish ill on my kids, but 1-2 years of really struggling as adults on their own isn't wishing ill on them. If my kids get into Harvard, they're going to request a two-year deferral and spend two years at a state school first if they want my Expected Family Contribution. My kids may be slightly less elite than your kids, but they'll be way tougher. And I think the toughness will win in the end.
I honestly don't think there's that much hate for people from prestigious schools. There is some, but frankly, there's hate for everything. People love bitchin about shit.
There's a lot of people that will always give you shit or look down upon transferring, no matter the reason why you decided to do so. You'll see it during recruiting. Just do well at the new school, leave off the CC, and only list your graduation year on your resume. I'm two years out and no one has asked me about it nor have I mentioned it during interviews.
Not sure what the argument is here. Attitude/perspective/toughness + good values + work ethic + talent + experience + not being socially incompetent = qualities that should be invariant. If you can show those things, prestige is going to be way down the list in terms of importance. IMHO.
If I have a bomb that's going to go off if it's tipped, the person I trust most to hold it still is the "crazy" OCD guy how has a fear of tipping bombs over. Likewise, if a person makes sacrifices at great cost to himself for a set of values (however crazy they may be), it is reasonable to expect he will continue following those values.
Sure, but there's no way to read somebody's values from that. I'm of the camp that it's most practical and efficient in the long run to elevate both the median and the average. Elevating the average may mean lifting the most capable, but elevating the median means improving things for the median person.If we always focus on elevating the average, the ubermensch will always be a few steps ahead of you and may find it inefficient to share with the people who helped him- these values are unsustainable in a world with complete knowledge. So let's elevate the median guy, too, in the process.
Are you seriously arguing "my [hypothetical] kid will beat up your [hypothetical] kid?" For all you know, your son could be a great kid, head of the football team, and then go on to a great school where he'll party and get killer grades, and one night during a party there will be a fire and your son will attempt to rescue his friends from it and die a hero*.
*I heard more or less a paraphrase of this in a foreign movie once, but can't remember which one.
Community College student, pursing finance degree,1st member of the family to enter college (Originally Posted: 07/22/2017)
Hello all,
I am almost a sophomore (currently 27 credits, 15 are from AP credits, the rest from classes), attending a community college in Maryland. My GPA is 3.0, and my only recent -and significant - extracurricular activity is conservative politics with the Leadership Institute.
My game plan is as a follows:
Raise GPA to 3.8 by the time I hit 56 credit hours
Apply to Georgetown University via the Preferred Consideration Program, a somewhat little-known transfer path, in which GU shows admission preference to sophomores from select CCs, if the CC's administration (e.g. college president and selection cmmte) stands behind the student; naturally, the administration's support is won through academic and extracurricular excellence. Even with the preference, admission to GU is still not guaranteed - but the odds are better ( acceptance rate of preferred students has been 80% over the last 5 years... which is better than GU's normal 14% acceptance rate).
Apply to my backup schools, in order of preference: U.Va's McIntire School, Michigan's Ross School,University of Maryland's Smith School, University of Texas (Austin)'s McCombs School, NYU's Stern.
Following the advice from Mergers&Inquisitions and cold-calling/emailing financial firms in my area, in order to land an internship for work experience.
Knowledge-wise, I've been supplementing via self-study, YouTube Lecture series, Edx courses, and forums (Investopedia,M&I, WSO, and Poets&Quants)
Any tips would be welcomed.
My mental math tells me that your GPA expectation is basically impossible. Maybe I'm not that smart today- but your plan has a lot of holes in it. Grades are poor for a CC. I went 2 years to CC- had a 4.0- did get 1 Ivy acceptance (did not attend due to getting engaged and my fiancé having a job that was excellent). I made out OK and am pretty successful so it's possible with CC background- just not your story. You need to do better- much better.
By re-taking two particular courses , and then getting all As from now on, I could get a 3.8.
However, I agree, I haven't performed as well as I should/could have; I didn't consciously address my character failings early on. But, I agree, I need to do much better.
Glad you made out OK and became successful. hopefully, my path will mirror your's in that regard.
Break into the finance field from a CC (Originally Posted: 10/10/2016)
Hello everyone,
I am currently studying in a community college near Chicago, and my current status is as follows: working as an intern in the purchasing department of a multinational company (completely unrelated to finance), mostly have experience in marketing and sales, with some relevant coursework and volunteering in finance (took accounting and econ classes and also volunteered as a tax preparer for a non-profit), and my GPA is at 3.9. My internship will be over in 2 months, and I know that the earlier I start looking for the next summer internship, the better. However, I have no experience and no particular sense of direction in this industry whatsoever; IB, Private Equity, Trading, Consulting, all look equally appealing to me at this point, most likely because I know nothing but the fundamentals of each one of those. Plus, the fact that I study in a community college, and voila! A typical noob with nothing but a strong desire to break into the finance industry. What would be the most optimal way for me to land a finance-related internship for the next summer? What area of finance should I target? What type of companies should I be reaching out to?
Thanks,
Amarak
I think IB and Consulting are more competitive than others. I'm not sure about trading. One side of me says it's less competitive because fewer people want it... and the same time, it's a shrinking business, so maybe demand is very low.
Honestly, apply everywhere, every field, doesn't matter. Each will give you a good internship and a chance to figure things out, and importantly, each will be valued if you choose to interview for something else FT.
Thanks for the reply! 1) Will do. 2) Actually that came to my mind too. The company where I'm currently interning is an industrial company producing household appliances, automotive parts, and technology, so the only finance-related department there is the controlling/accounting department. I already spoke with some people from that department, so I believe I have a decent shot at the internship. Would that be a good start?
I think it's different asks. To positioning yourself for an internship w/ same company but in different department is probably easier than leveraging people you meet as a way of getting intros to outside consultancies.
Your approach isn't bad. Probably a fine start.
@taspar" you mentioned you're interested in Finance but not sure what exactly you want to do. On top of this you're also at a community college so my comments are as follows (no particular order):
1.) I HIGHLY recommend you transfer to a 4-Year university and graduate with a Finance degree (Economics if the school you choose doesn't offer business to undergrads). For anything in IB, PE, etc I would be surprised if any reputable firm hired people without a college degree.
Even if you choose to do something in corporate finance such as FP&A or Treasury as an example, you still need a college degree from an accredited institution.
2.) Use LinkedIn and attend networking events or even talk to those at your current internship about your career goals. You never know whose husband or daughter or friend knows someone or is working at an IB or any type of finance role. Began networking and building a network of people who can help you, provide mentorship, etc.
3.) Others may disagree but I would also HIGHLY recommend you take courses on Coursera in finance related topics and see if you like them. PM me if you want recommendations on courses.
On top of this buy books such as financial modeling books, books on accounting and basic finance, etc and do some self educating to develop a framework understanding. This is only going to help you.
This is all that I have for now. Feel free to PM me if I can help. Good luck!
RedRage Thank you for your feedback.
1) I am already planning on transferring to a 4 year school. So far I'm on track and despite the odds that are against CC students transferring to any of the Ivies, I will most likely still give it a shot (UPenn & Columbia). Plus I'm a college wrestler, so NYU and U of Chicago are also worth trying out my chances for since they have wrestling teams there. In fact, my coaches are in a GREAT relationship with the coaches over at those schools, so maybe if they put in a good for me, I'll have better chances? Last but not least, the biggest state school in the area: U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. If I'm not mistaken, all of the mentioned schools are considered target schools for the IB recruiters, aren't they? 3) I love Coursera! I am auditing Introduction to corporate finance, and Computational Investing. Are those courses good for the start?
First of all, points for hustle.
It's going to be unforgivably difficult to do any of these things without going to an accredited 4-Year institution. You have the GPA, make the transfer to a solid school that has solid companies recruiting from it. Land a gig at a solid F500 who, ideally, will pay for an advanced degree, work there for a little bit and then hit the "MBA restart button."
From there you'll likely have a much stronger profile, a better understanding of what finance actually is and a more specific idea of where you'd like to be. Good luck man!
Made my day; wish I wasn't out of silver bananas. Thanks for the kind words!
Another possibility is interning for a BB in the local PWM office. You'd get a big name on your resume early on, which would be helpful, and you'd have access to the internal directory, allowing you to network with people in other divisions at the firm.
Thanks for bringing that up! I had an interview with a local PWM office of UBS back in March. The man was interested until he found out that I was a freshman in college, so I guess that was a turnoff. Do you think it's worth following up after 6 months? Thanks once again.
Community College to BB (Originally Posted: 04/03/2015)
Dear All,
I used to read WSO religiously as I was dreaming of even just getting an interview at a BB. I spent two years in a Community College in the deep south (to my opinion, coming from up north) of the US. Then finished my BA at a (low ranked) state university where I graduated with a 3.7. I couldn't even get an interview with BBs or smaller shops so after reconsidering my dreams, I decided to apply for and MSc Finance at a top tier school in the UK, w/o taking the GMAT, got accepted and spent the first 4 months of school networking, applying and interviewing.
I landed an offer at a BB in London starting this summer( S&T Equities ). It's only an internship, but the turnover is high, and my bosses are aware that I am a postgrad student looking to stay with them.
The journey is far from over, but I'm sure there's a bunch of kids who like me a few years ago have not a clue on how to get ahead to actually make it to a BB.
I'm posting this just like that, anyone sees it and has any questions about the path I took or need any advice, I'd be delighted to help or just exchange a few ideas!
Cheers Guys and don't give up, when you get that offer phone call it'll all be worth it!
ETSUbb
congrats!
How you get into a top tier school in the UK without GMAT? especially if your undergrad isn't top rank. Could you give the name of the schools you have applied to because I am interested as well.
Warwick, Cranfield and Cass, which are the 3 UK schools ranked right below Oxford for pre-experience MS Finance do not require GMATs (its optional). Just transcript, resume and personal statement. Learn how to use the internet bro, it is super dope.
Source: http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2014
leveragebro is totally right, looking up the FT rankings helps. I had prepared for the GMAT but even in the best cases i PROBABLY (just realistic here) wouldn't have gotten into the MFE at Oxford (which is obviously a solid programme). I say top tier because the rankings rank the MSc Fin states so. as one of the the world's "best" (it's one of the 3 mentioned by leveragebro). It's not oxford, but I can guarantee you that the careers office is doing what it needs to do, and that EVERY single investment bank, BBs and boutiques recruit from here. There it's on you to work the networking aspect appropriately and impress people.
To tell you the truth, each AC or interview I've been to was overcrowded with Warwick and Oxford students, but that may be just a timing fact, or luck as some may call it. Oh... and also met a few MIF student from HEC in Paris, which I believe is a new programme.
If you have any specific question, feel free to send me an e-mail
Congrats....as someone who went from Community College to different area of Finance (Currently IB) I know the path can be quite the journey.
congrats, that journey takes some faith. I just graduated from a state school and am also trying to break in ...I was thinking about an mfin. are you from UK?
Hey glad you commented.
No, i'm not British, I grew up in Canada, but did my undergrad in the US in the south (had to move from canada to the US for family reasons).
In the US i spent 9 months (just before starting grad school) interning in a fortune 500 chemical company in the legal (economic/politic research) and then in the business finance department. From there, i had the choice to roll into their "grad scheme" and forget about the wall street aspirations that kept me up (trading the overnight, low volume ES mini futures lift offs) at night. I decided to get ready for the GMAT but before I took it, I received an acceptance letter from a top MSc Fin programme in the UK. Without hesitation I jumped across the Atlantic and spent all the time I could here networking and trying to share a story with any "connected" people in IB.
If you have any specific questions about an MSc Finance in the UK, feel free to e-mail me directly
Please cass & warwick are 3rd and 2nd tier respectively. Never even heard of the other
I agree these two university do NOT rank any close to Oxford, but the MSF programmes are solid and get LOTS of attention from recruiters. all the BBs spent lots of time on campus last semester.
So tier 3 or not (to your opinion) these students are getting noticed and scouted by the goldmans,morgans, jps of this world, i can promise you that. Then its up to them to make it happen!
congrats to OP, keep it up! Also which bank are u at?
Premature thread. You have an internship offer - that's all.
There's always a downer here and there, seems that today it's you. Yeah, internship isn't MD, but there's hoops to go through, and a way to make it happen. the idea is that the dream is alive and if my tiny bit of experience can help someone who was in my situation 2-3 years ago then i've achieved something here.
There was an analyst at Wells Fargo when I was an analyst about 12 yrs ago that did 3 years at the local state college and it was the top industry group in the firm; that said I think he was a 1600 SAT type and finished high school and college early; wasn't even old enough to drink during his second year.
Good thread. How much was the Msc though? Got to be at least £30,000. Then living costs?
It's pricey for sure, so that's something to consider too. There's surely no time to work part time to pay for living expenses. So loan it is, or savings if you have that luxury.
Thank you for your insight.
I'll try to answer in the best possible way here. Not sure i'm qualified for that but let me tell you what I think / have lived.
1) I'd say so. In my programme there aren't many North Americans. 3 if I recall right. Mainly asia, and then mainland Europe holds a big percentage as well. So I think, the only advantage is the US uni system, which I feel like is very well regarded (only impression here, not agreeing with this) 2)That is the key, you have to be willing to apply for UK positions. If not you will have to have meaningful discussions with recruiters/employees of the firm so they can put you in contact with their US counterparts. But again, they come to campus to fill their London office (sometimes you Paris and Frankfurt; so if you speak fluently French or German you can definitely apply to these positions from the UK and be well regarded). If NYC is the destination you're aiming for RIGHT now, i'd look into the MIT Msc (although I can't tell you about recruitment there). To me London is an amazing place to be ( minus the rain) and if it doesn't work out in that location over the years, you can always aim to eventually relocate with the firm you are with. 3) As far as barriers, there are some. summer internship in London for americans (at least at my school) are practically impossible because you will be there on a student Visa that will only let you work full time in september ish when you have turned in your dissertation. Luckily, still being Canadian lets me get a different Visa which will allow me to be both "in school" and start working in June. But for Full Times; all firms that have came onto campus this year were willing to support visas for candidates.
The key is really networking in my opinion, I haven't received any attention from any of the US applications I made apart from phone interviews and numerical tests. While on the UK / European applications I sent, I had the opportunity to meet people at networking events and it's where your application get fast tracked and all.
Hope this helps, since this just comes from what I lived this year with the UK/EU/US process question and all.. Cheers
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