Not too hard to break in if you are relentless and convey persistence. Definitely would feel weird as a 27+ year old working alongside pre-MBA graduates and reporting to associates who are probably younger than that. If your end goal is IB or bust then I guess that path might make sense. There are other ways (probably riskier) to make a lot of money if you're smart and don't want IB. Just my 2 cents..

 

At the end of the day, it's just your ego really. It might have taken you longer to get in but what matters is you are in. Two billionaires standing besides each other, you think people would make fun of the one who makes it later than the other one?

It's more about work experience and how fast and well you progress, once you are in. I had colleagues older than their senior. Their aggregate work experience is less than their senior but you can clearly tell they are way better analysts than their senior when they were analysts.

 

I went to work for a friend's company as Business Development Manager. Use that experience to spin that I am interested in covering consumer sector either in Research or IB. Then I got a job covering consumer companies as an Equity Research Associate.

I would take any corporate job - 1) industry related - Clorox, 2) big 4 - advisory > valuation > transaction dd > audit, 3) rating agency - credit analyst, 4) finance related - private banking, investment management. It is better to have a job experience than not having at all.

After 1-3 years, I will spin that experience to get IB job that I want.

 
Willie Nelson:
Do you feel like your CFA charter will open doors for you or expand your exit opps from your current role in credit?

CFA is next to useless. It's like toilet paper to be honest. I cleared all 3 levels and it didn't help one bit.

Array
 

What I find missing from your description is networking. You are going to a pretty legit B-school, so have you reached out to alumni who have made it into IB? Have you arranged for some informational interviews and such? Have you asked for criticisms of your resume (either from them or here on WSO)? Gotten any referrals?

If all you have been doing is applying online, the results aren't very surprising considering that online job boards for many banks are essentially black holes. A referral from an alumnus or somebody you have developed a relationship with is worth infinitely more than a high score on some online assessment test.

Also, don't lose motivation after only 2-3 months and 40 applications. Several people I know who managed to break into finance had to devote 8-12 months and 120-140 applications to get in. Keep trying and put some more emphasis on networking. Also I would recommend that you submit a version of your resume with all personal information taken out or modified here on WSO for comments and criticisms. Best of luck!

 

Have you been going through on-campus recruitment stuff, or just direct online apps? The hit rate is just generally much lower when applying for things online/without a campus recruiting connection.

I'd agree with the above poster that perhaps the weak link is lack of networking? Especially for places that don't have a formalized campus recruitment process, networking is especially important. Online job boards are often hopeless, despite how good your CV may look. You need to talk to people at these places to try and get your resume actually looked at.

Reach out to alumni in IB/finance, but I'd say also feel free to use LinkedIn and try to set up info chats with some people at firms that you're looking at applying to (don't overdo it, but even just speaking to 1 or 2 people can add a lot of value if the calls go well).

 

I've actually done a lot of networking (500+ LinkedIn connections). Half of the time when I decided to apply to a graduate position, I've reached out to a few analysts/associates working there through LinkedIn and at least had a quick phone call with each. To the extent where each agrees, I've also namedropped them in my application.

I've also attended on-campus events but those have been generally less helpful since the business school is extremely young and it's not in a financial hub like London or Zurich. It's not even a target university (so lack of campus recruiting) for many IBs/consulting firms/etc.

I've gotten both my CV and my CL looked at by the business school's head of careers services and he said both are fine. So that's why I'm getting a bit panicky now and feeling like I'm not doing something right but I have no clue what it might be.

 

But have these people taken your CV/CL and taken a look at it or forwarded it to the hiring manager? Also, career services are not always particularly good for resume reviews and such. WSO is probably a better data point because your resume will be critiqued by several people (several perspectives), many of whom may have relevant experience (looking over resumes at a bank).

 

Send over your CV if you want. I'm not the greatest with offering feedback but I can point out if something doesn't look right.

By the way, career services even at the best schools, can be shit in terms of offering advice and looking at resumes.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

No unfortunately they haven't done that. Is there any way I could ask them to do that (forward my CV or even just take a look at my CV)? Should I be trying to reach out to people in higher positions than analysts/associates?

And thanks so much for the offer, Flake. I will send you my CV shortly.

 

Yes, you should be be trying to get them to pass on your CV. You can mention that you saw their company's posting on your careers website or whatever, which is what got you interested, but now having spoken with them, you're definitely excited about the opportunity, and ask if they can pass along your resume. Obviously, this works best if you connect well with the person on the other end of the phone.

You should also be talking to people at different seniority levels at your target firms. Analysts and associates will give you a better feel for what you'll be doing as well as the culture, but senior guys have more pull. When I was involved in the recruiting process for my school, I can't remember a single time when a senior guy said "I spoke to this kid and liked him" and the student didn't get an interview.

The other thing that you should take into account is that these informational interviews are NOT "check the box" exercises - if you come across as cold and robotic and reading from a list of questions, that doesn't bode well for your interview chances. It's much better if you come across as someone likable and that I would want to work with.

 

in the US, analysts or associates are the only people you need to get you an interview (via referral). they have no influence in whether or not you're hired beyond getting you that interview, though, which is obviously not true of more senior people. also, career services are generally terrible with resume stuff. make sure you're using strong verbs for every bullet, including a lot of numbers, and being VERY specific about what you did and what your specific role was, and, if possible, what resulted due to your actions or what the impact was. avoid vague sounding shit on your CV at all costs

 

Agreed that career services offices on campus aren't great at reviewing resumes from a banker's perspective/for finance jobs. I'm happy to take a look at your CV as well if you want to send it over.

Keep in mind that analysts at a lot of these banks have to review a ton of resumes come recruiting time, so formatting really matters. It's more tempting to judge resumes superficially/based on a quick glance when you have so many to look through...

 

20 yr old you said and then you say too old? People with non finance back ground do get through , if you were so hell bent on getting into IB then why did you go for a quantitative finance programme , why not a plain Msc Finance one?

The causes for failure could be poor networking as someone said and lack of knowledge of a European language apart from english.Even in London office they demand these days. Or maybe because you lack spark , or something that sets you apart.Think there are tons of people with your profile (No offense meant) Could be because your Asian too , the work permit barriers come into play here

 

From all your clues I'm determining you are from France's HEC or Edhec ? if I guessed right you should move to London or USA, or if you have attach and can speak the language to the asian country where your parents emigrated from.

It seems opportunities are totally dried off in France in Finance in the current economic situation. And landing a job there the process is extremely long and bureaucratic, 3 to 9 months even with the right connections.

I'm moving to Canada personally even with a strong CV like more than 60% of my class did due to lack of perspectives in this country.

 

Hey guys, thanks so much for all the advice. Wish I consulted WSO earlier instead of relying on careers services.

RohanShinde, I'm doing a specialised Master in Finance. Not a specifically quantitative one.

birdmantg, I'm at IE Business School in Spain, job markets aren't looking too great there either and most of you are right, the lack of fluency in a European language might be a huge hindrance to getting a job in London (the location of most of my applications thus far).

noiven, that's great advice on adding more numbers and being more specific regarding my responsibilities in my CV.

CHItizen, from what you've said, it might be because I've been quite dry and straightforward in informational interviews and have never tried to connect with the other party on a personal level. I'll work on that.

 
  • You shouldn't think about age factor. Its not an issue at all.
  • On your resume, you should prominently mention something which gives away that you are a woman. This could be a leverage for you since several companies require a good gender ratio. Make a small club at your university. Something like: "Female Leaders" or some stuff like that and add it to your resume.
  • Do you have a European Permanent Residency ? This could boost your chances.
  • I suggest you to vehemently apply and cold email/message people so as to land something before Summer.

  • Are you applying in other countries? You can have more leverage getting in Singapore .HongKong, Canada, Australia, United States etc. Look for some less-known paths, if so. (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Poland etc) You can later on capitalize on them by presenting them how it was challenging to move there and so on. (It's not 'challenging' to work there. Its more challenging coping up with language barrier etc)

  • Economic situation in Europe is grim, I'd say. If chances for an offer seem bleak, then you can opt for an internship. As Plan B, apply to some industries from where you can pivot to your desired field.

  • A word of warning though. You mentioned you've "not enough interest in finance". This in itself could not be a good indicator to go into IB. + Work on social skills. Nobody likes an intelligent but dry colleague. Just sayin'. You must know that there are so many people applying for positions, even Asians. You have to capitalize on at least one area somehow.

I'd be happy to have a look at your CV or have a conversation if that would help.

Good luck!

 

I don't know if this can help, but here you can find some info that may help with the process in Europe.

I will try to give you my 2 cents using your bullet points as reference: 1) Your GPA sounds good if you analyze it from a UK or USA point of view. According to the info you gave us, I assume you are studying in continental Europe. I believe, since you said that your school is young and don't have a strong alumni base in IBD and London, that it may be IE in Madrid or maybe EDHEC. If this is the case, you have to check if your GPA is strong enough from a Spanish point of view (this is true also if you are in Italy for instance). I explain it: if you are applying from a continental Europe country, it is very likely that your CV will be scanned by people from that country. If you have a score which can be high from a UK standpoint (i.e. 2.1) it may not be high from a Spanish (if you are in Spain) point of view. In Italy, where I am from, this happens all the time. If you don't have >105/110, it will be very likely that your CV will go directly to the bin even if a score equal to 90-95/110 still falls within the 2.1 UK rating. This happens because in Italy you have a lot of people that are able to reach 110/110 and therefore, they are selected with a higher threshold. 2) I don't believe this is a factor. I met people during interviews with History or Chemistry majors. Plus, as you said, you are currently studying for a MSc in Finance. 3) This is not the case. I will be starting as a first year analyst in 15 days and I am 26 yrs old (after 2 yrs in a Big 4). In some European countries it is normal to study for 5 yrs and start between 24-26. Another analyst in my team, for instance, started at 27 after 6 yrs in engineering and 1 yrs of MSc in Management. 4) This is not a huge factor if you are applying for internships. If you are applying for full time, given the current market conditions, there is no way they are going to get the job if you don't have previous working experience within the field. 5) This usually is not a factor if you are studying in a business school. It may be a factor if you were coming from a 100% not correlated sector... but you are studying through a program which is designed for finance jobs. 6) This could be an issue. Do you have a work permit to work within the country you are applying to? If you do not have a Visa to work there, it is very likely that you have been rejected because of this. 7) Try a way so that people understand that you are a girl. If you are a girl, it is way easier to get the interviews and then the job (especially if you are good looking) because few girls are applying, few girls are interested and they would sometimes prefer to hire girls for minority reasons and so on (i.e.: the company I am leaving just hired a girl because they received some pressure to increase the number of girls within the office (30 men vs 3 women as of now)).

Some other comments that may be useful are: 1) Are you studying through a 1 yr master? If this is the case, some banks do not hire interns that are in their ultimate year of school. If this is the case, write in you application that you will go for an extra year (another master or an exchange experience) even if you are not planning it. This will give you a chance to be interview for internship and once you are in, they don't care that much what you are going to do in that extra year. 2) Look on your school career page if they have some off-cycle internship openings at local or international investments banks. For instance, at my school, we have some openings from banks such as Rothschild, Citi, BNP, HSBC, Nomura which use this channel to fulfill their internship openings in their local office. If you are able to get an internship in a local office, you can then a) obtain a FT offer there, b) leverage this experience for future application. 3) CLs matter. Who the fuck said that cover letters do not matter?!? It is 100% a deal breaker. Where I am going to work I am 100% sure that the analysts go through CV and CL and if you write something stupid or something that does not have any sense, your application will be rejected. Therefore, I strongly advise you to write a good CL which must clearly explain your path so far (why did you do a MA and then switched to Finance? Why are you interested in IBD? Why did you move from China for you education? etc.) 4) Keep a look on efinancialcareers. If you see an opening from a good MM bank or a good boutique: a) apply; b) look for some alumni of your school or people with similar experience to yours there (i.e.: someone who is also from China and studied in Europe, someone who started with a MA and then moved to Finance, etc.) and write to them saying that you will be interested to make their own path and ask if they can give you some advices/guidance. I did this once and it may work also with you: a) I saw that a MM bank was hiring and hired in the past people from Big 4 companies; b) I found a guy from my same university on LinkedIn who was working there and who was hired from a European mid-market bank in another country; c) wrote him that I was interested in making the same jump that some of his colleagues (from big 4) did; d) he gave me a couple of advices and the email of the VP who was recruiting (I saw the opening on efinancialcareers and therefore I knew they were recruiting); d) sent my CV and had an interview with them (did not work. They were looking for someone with stronger M&A experience). 5) be ready to have a back-up plan if you are not able to get in. IMHO, good back up plans are: a) try to get into a Big 4 company within their corporate finance division (they do M&A and Valuation), their Restructuring group (which at some firms is top tier and sometimes compete with BB for the same mandates) or their Transaction Services teams. This kind of experience will give you i) a similar set of skills to the one you will get in IBD; ii) contacts of people within the IBD world since you, sometimes, will work with them; iii) the opportunity to study through some certifications that sometimes banks are looking for in London (i.e.: ACA, CFQ, CA; have a look of efinancialcareers for this); b) try to get into a top consulting firm which have a corporate finance desk. For instance, McK, BCG, Bain Restructuring or ATK. You will learn how to model and down the road you may have the chance to jump to IBD... or you will not even need that since they are great companies that can still open you other interesting doors; c) try to get into a brand name company, maybe in their corporate development or strategic divisions, and later try to i) use this experience to lateral to some bank that may be interested in hiring someone with a specific sector knowledge; ii) use this experience + solid GMAT, to apply to a top MBA and start the recruiting once again with an associate position as your target; d) apply for another master which can give you an extra year to apply. Obv., you need to find a master which make sense with your previous experiences. Therefore it should be in the same field but with limited overlaps.

Hope this can help. Feel free to write me and send your CV and I will give it a look.

Good luck

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.
 

As people have alluded to:

1) Keep plugging away- the job market where/near you are will make it much harder than it would already be. In that scenario, 30-40 apps (especially online) is probably like dropping a pebble in an ocean or whatever- not enough. 2) With networking (and others may think differently) in my opinion quality over quantity. I've never been super into networking, and probably have hardly any contacts compared to some people- you say 500+ linkedin contacts, I say I'm relatively regularly in touch with IB job more than any huge network of contacts someone barely knows ever will. Also try to get in front of people rather than just over the phone- I've had people ask me to apply to their banks after a first in-person meeting, and I'm sure that's because it's much easier to leave a better impression and get along with someone in person than over a phone or email.

 

As a first year Analyst at a BB I am currently going through the selection process for SA candidates resumes for first rounds and we have already shortlisted candidates at a few top targets. Let me tell you and the people in the entire thread how pathetic it is that you believe your race (Asian) is holding you back. Let me dispel the myth right now: race has nothing to do with our selection process. BB do try to recruit for diversity i.e. URM, Female LGBT but we have specific programs for that in the U.S. and Europe. Some of the finest candidates I have met through my OCR trips are Asian and some of the worst candidates are Asian. It just so happens that there are more bad vs. good candidates which happens for every race and ethnicity. Getting a first round is entirely due to three things:

1) How hungry you are (i.e. networking, coldcalling) 2) How well you present yourself (resumes, cover letter and info sessions, your story) 3) Luck

And what do I mean by luck? Luck is the probability that while I'm sifting through 100+ resumes, I will actually read yours and then pick it out. How you improve your luck? Read 1) and 2)

When I go through how your story there is two significant roadblocks.

1) You have a diversity of experiences in business but how did you convey your interest for banking? A MFin isn't enough, you have to say in detail why banking intsead of trading, ER, Asset Management etc.

2) Lack of anything interesting. What I mean by that is when I sift through resumes I see achievement in various different fields. I don't look for investment clubs/trading clubs cause I know those are all bullshit. I look for Mathematics Olympians, Division 1 Varsity Athletes, wrote books or poetry. I like that you were a CFO of a nonprofit and worked on commercialization of a product, emphasize those experiences on your resume instead of a boutique banking experience.

 

Do's: email me during work hours, I don't want to check my BB for anything other than my VP's or Associate's emails. Email me if you coming down to New York and want to chat, email me for a phone chat

Don't: email me unless there is something significant, email me more than 1 time per week unless we have a dialogue going, email me for a job.

 

You know I usually don't come to WSO just to swear, but what the F is wrong with you OP? "I'm Asian and my name is too Asian?" If anything Bulge Brackets like to have Asian guys on board for IB under the same condition. What kind of work do you think is entry level IB consist of? They just need you to do 100 hours of grunt work every single goddamn week without making a single letter mistake. If you don't have any referral your chance of getting selected is zero for any race coming from a non-ivy school, regardless of what race you are.

 

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