Still want the job? Are you prepared?
I cringe at many of the threads and comments I see on here.
While it’s true that some of those ideas are inline with where I was when I began my career on Wall Street nearly twenty years ago, that’s why I cringe.
Like the anonymous keyboard warriors who like to tell me how wrong I am, back then I thought I knew it all.
Thinking I was so so smart having topped my school and landed the only job offered at Goldman Sachs Australia in my year, I assumed I had it all figured out…
But only a few years later, after the Internet bubble burst and half my office was laid-off, I was re-evaluating everything I thought I knew about me and my life.
From the outside it might seem like you get Wall Street.
Those of you who have done an internship might even think you get it even more.
But until you’ve spent a handful of years building a career on Wall Street, you have no idea what it’s like.
I often see on here these enthusiastic young hopefuls talking up why they think they want to break into IBD, and I contrast that to all the people I know on Wall Street, as well as my senior clients, and I wonder how they will perceive it ten years from now.
When times are good, the business can be incredible, but so too are the hours and the stress.
When times are bad, which if you look back over the last twenty years you can see happens consistently, The Street is dripping in blood.
Every day, for years, getting used to seeing their colleagues being laid-off and sitting amongst empty cubes, offices, and floors, many people show up at work wondering when the next axe will drop.
It seems right now we are entering another one of these phases, but that’s not your problem.
Your problem is that as soon as we hit a cycle like this, analyst and associate class sizes get slashed, while at the same time your other job options are becoming more scarce.
Not to mention, so too do your opportunities after an analyst program, as well as getting into business school.
I don’t tell you this to frighten you or dissuade you from a career on Wall Street, but to reinforce the message that many of you already get.
In any market to land the job on Wall Street you must be exceptional, but in the market we might be hitting even that isn’t enough.
If you want to win, you must do even more.
Geoff Blades is the author of Do What You Want on Wall Street. A former investment banker at Goldman Sachs and investor at the Carlyle Group, Geoff Blades is an advisor to senior Wall Street executives, CEOs, and other leaders on strategic matters as well as topics of personal and professional development.
Another fantastic read.
I'm sorry - I don't mean to sound rude, but what part of this post constitutes a "fantastic read" or "solid advice" in your guys' opinions? While the OP "cringes" at the many threads on WSO, I cringe at his list of truisms and the even-more cliche manner in which he writes these ("if you want to win, you must do even more"). While you have some very solid posts under your belt, threads such as these really don't contribute much to the site - ironic given my post, I know.
Totally agree. Nothing about the above is insightful, thoughtful or new. It seems like this guy begins or concludes every one of his posts with a rehashed, veiled brag about having joined Goldman. Not to mention the irking Caryle namedrop and book self-promotion. He's dispensing a lot of advice, but it seems like he didn't receive his lesson in subtlety.
Geoff, thanks for another fantastic post.
Few questions for you, as we potentially enter into another one of these phases, how do you think it will affect mid-market banks, and is this a problem for full service banks or advisory banks too?
yep, it’s across the street.
if we head into an ugly cycle, it will affect all jobs, from the big shops to the middle market.
remember, it affects them in different ways for different reasons. take last year, for the full service shops it was a boom year for IBD, but charges from S&T and the balance sheet hurt them significantly
also, think, last year was a blockbuster year for M&A, which has a fairly steady relationship to GDP…so any big or middle market bank that is driving it's business through M&A will face a headwind.
the exception if the market and economy cracks are restructuring and distressed focused shops, but those opportunities tend to be even more limited.
as you guys can clearly read, the haters will never get it, but this means you have to want it more and be willing to do more to get it.
for those on here with low standards that means means reading an interview guide or two, but those of you who get it know what it takes.
This post is actually ironic in how self-centered it is, while trying to criticize prospective bankers for being self-centered.
People in almost every single profession "show up at work wondering when the next axe will drop" at some time or another. What do you think it was like for factory workers as they saw their jobs move overseas? What do you think it's like for teachers to see their school's budget slashed? What do you think is currently going through the head of a petroleum engineer?
A Wall Street career isn't a golden ticket, and neither is any other career.
I wonder if @geoffblades is mostly referring to S&T or IBD / Wall Street in general when he is referring to the next cycle.
Curious on this as well.
It’s the same as what I wrote above on middle market m&a.
if you look at goldman you see the advisory shop made money but the charges across the bank and fixed income dragged it down (and even though IBD made money, many investment bankers were paid down this year)
Many banks are already cutting S&T, and particularly coming off this excessive credit cycle (if we do, anytime soon, whose to know?) more will follow.
You have to know too that the fixed income business has changed dramatically in the last decade. Like the equities business it is becoming more automated and many jobs are going away permanently.
for what it’s worth, I believe Wall Street is an incredible place to start your career. I know of no better place. But the seat you choose will set the direction of your career (and life).
And once you’re there, it’s up to you to figure out how to manage it. One of the ignorant monkeys wrote that it's just other professions. No it’s not, moron.
In this business, comp gets cut in half in one year, and so does the team.
When you're sitting in an office watching people from Harvard, Stanford and other top business schools get cut, you see in a bad market few people are safe.
If we enter that market, the same is true for analyst and associate classes.
I know plenty of people who graduated from top business schools in the “wrong” year and with tiny incoming classes had to settle for a sub-optimal job that set them back years in their career.
Know what we might be heading into and prepare yourself to crush it. That’s all I’m saying.
May the force be with you, MrSkywalker...
I cringe at many of the threads and comments I see on here. While it's true that some of those ideas are inline with where I was when I began my career on self-help blogging nearly twenty years ago, that's why I cringe. Like the anonymous keyboard warriors who like to tell me how wrong I am, back then I thought I knew it all. Thinking I was so so smart having topped my school and landed the only job offered at rando blog in my year, I assumed I had it all figured out... But only a few years later, after the Internet bubble burst and half my office was laid-off, I was re-evaluating everything I thought I knew about me and my life. From the outside it might seem like you get self-help blogging. Those of you who have done an internship might even think you get it even more. But until you've spent a handful of years building a career on self-help blogging, you have no idea what it's like. I often see on here these enthusiastic young hopefuls talking up why they think they want to break into self-help blogging, and I contrast that to all the people I know on self-help blogging, as well as my senior clients, and I wonder how they will perceive it ten years from now. When times are good, the business can be incredible, but so too are the hours and the stress. When times are bad, which if you look back over the last twenty years you can see happens consistently, The Blogosphere is dripping in blood. Every day, for years, getting used to seeing their colleagues being laid-off and sitting amongst empty cubes, offices, and floors, many people show up at work wondering when the next axe will drop. It seems right now we are entering another one of these phases, but that's not your problem. Your problem is that as soon as we hit a cycle like this, analyst and associate class sizes get slashed, while at the same time your other job options are becoming more scarce. Not to mention, so too do your opportunities after an analyst program, as well as getting into business school. I don't tell you this to frighten you or dissuade you from a career on self-help blogging, but to reinforce the message that many of you already get. In any market to land the job on self-help blogging you must be exceptional, but in the market we might be hitting even that isn't enough. If you want to win, you must do even more.
You namedrop that you worked at Goldman more than anyone I've ever met from GS. I'd like to see a post in 3-6 months titled "How I overcame being a pseudo-humble narcissist in only 35 years."
Goldman Goldman Goldman Goldman Goldman Goldman. Do more. Goldman.
His next post
"When I started at Goldman Sachs Industrials I had the intent of being the God of that firm. I decided to leave after I wasn't given CEO when Corzine left despite "doing more" than any other analyst. I Joined Carlyle at the start of the tech and housing boom and was unequivocally the best ever. I got a 800 GMAT and decided to go to HBS with the intention of being the next Buffett within 5 years. Now I have authored the next NY Times best seller "How to be a self-righteous banker without people hating you." short_round @CF1988" trader_timmy HelpmeOutPlz
All this time, I had to just do more. Thanks for the insight, Jeff! Excuse me while I conquer the world now!
It blows my mind, "This job and lifestyle absolutely suck both dick and balls... and when you give your all... it still sucks... so just "push harder" and it still probably won't be enough." Somehow that's a badge of honor young people on this site aspire to.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
What's the alternative? What other career can give you such a lucrative and structured path to success?
Is it so structured? What's the average length of an investment banking career? How many people actually make it into the millionaire club? Tell me what someone making 70k all in at Microsoft in Seattle is 'sacrificing' compared to someone making 150k all in on wall st, in NYC (especially when the culture has an expectation on you spending that cash). Obviously, anyone considering IB will have a 20yr tenure and be making millions per year, because it's so structured and lucrative. Take a look at how many threads there are of people absolutely miserable and burnt out.
Life isn't a spreadsheet and that is how young people on this site are viewing the decision. If you get the opportunity, go for it, I can't see how it'd be a negative even if you said fuck this after a year. It will probably open more doors than most other paths, so I get it why it's desirable. But the ENDLESS threads about, delaying graduation, taking on massive student debt for transferring into target schools, foregoing all other options in pursuit of IB and even going so far as being homeless?!! Is absolute insanity and generally speaking most of those people have deluded themselves into thinking they will make it a career and have millions in early retirement to show for it.
The OP definitely touches on a lot of the problems I had with interviewing kids back when I was in IBD and involved with recruiting. Undoubtedly the worst analysts who we hired were the ones with unrealistic expectations of the job.
For some reason DJ Khaleed is way more inspirational than this guy.
~ Knowing is better than learning
DJ Khaleed
Never has an OP written so much yet said so little.
Here's some tangible advice so you know what it looks like: You should consider moving to China, they really care about namedropping Goldman over there.
So much so they even have a fake
Goldman Sachs Financial Leasing Company: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/8ccdd720-4c93-11e5-9b5d-89a026fda5c9.html#axz…
Buy his book and you might become then next Icahn as long as you "do more" then the rest. Link is long but here is his book for sale lol. http://www.amazon.com/What-You-Want-Wall-Street-ebook/dp/B017CI43P0/ref…
https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffblades No M7 mba? No way!?!?!?!?!!? How is this possible for the greatest banker who ever lived?
I see more more depression in this post than encouragement. but still thanks for your opinion
Per Amazon, it's pretty wild/shady that his book came out on November 8th, and within 10 days of release had 21 5-star "reviews". Wall Street is a small community and I doubt the mainstream public has ever heard about this guy or his book. I call BS.
I agree. DO MORE. GOLDMAN SACHS GOLDMAN SACHS GOLDMAN SACHS GOLDMAN SACHS GOLDMAN SACHS GOLDMAN SACHS.
But do more definitely has to be the greatest uneclipsable advice I've ever received. If "Do what you want on Wall Street" by Geoff Blades is 381 pages of "do more", it's a guaranteed New York Times bestseller and I will insta buy 10 copies. I don't know why I've never thought of just doing more
I've purchased his audiobook and listened to it. I thought it was great and I'm sure others who have listened to it would agree.
Also, I'm curious to see the background of the perpetual shit-talkers in this thread. If you don't agree with what he said, then why not just make a post expressing your opinion and move on? Instead, you care so little that you INSIST on posting multiple times in his thread, simply to bash him? Pathetic.
Geoff has put out several great write-ups on this site that I've taken alot from, but he's always done it with a sort of elitist, Goldman-esque tone in his writing. In the past, this hasn't mattered because his content has been insightful and relevant. However, this article is not relevant or insightful so the elitist and Goldman-esque tone sticks out like a crooked pinky (someone please get this reference). As such, I think the lexical rocks that have been thrown at Geoff in this comment section are well warranted.
I'll still take it.
Let me put it this way: I've done equally bad hours, under much shittier working and living conditions with even more asshole bosses, in a job with no great exit opps, for less than half of the pay before.
Same hours...in a fun city, for better pay and cushy fallback jobs? I'll take it.
I can spot a fellow vet anywhere... The worst incarnation of asshole bosses imaginable, shitty working/living conditions and long pointless hours gave you away...
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