Just wondering what these positions actually entail. From what I can see it looks like the same thing as research, but just wanted to know what others think the following titles mean, and if there's any difference between them.
-commodity strategist
-commodity trading strategist
-options and structuring strategist
-desk strategist
Thanks
Judging by the titles, i'm guessing you're referring to strategists at GS? At most banks, stategists are research type positions - at GS it's a very broad term that can mean anything from mid-office quant to front office quanto or structurer.
Strategists are generally referred to as the smartest people in the firm. Each desk generally has several strategists who will develop all the algorithmic models and solutions for the traders. Generally they hold math/physics/CS bachelors and often time have PhDs. I feel bad for them because often times they are at the whim of the traders. If a trader develops a discrete pricing model, he piles all the work on the strat and tells him to develop the continuous version...
Wow. So should I feel worried right now if commodity trading strategy and options/structuring strategy are two of the three positions I'll be rotating through (along with exotic structuring) when all I have is a BSc in economics and a masters degree in a related but not really quantitative subject? I even told one of the final round interviewers that my "biggest weakness" is learning new computer languages, which is true. He (a VP) laughed and said he had the same issue. Seems weird that they would hire me rather than a pure technocrat to rotate through such technical positions.
It sounds like a really interesting job, but seriously I'm an economist not a mathematician or programming jock.
Btw ficcster this is another BB, not GS.
My strat post was referring to GS; didn't know the term was in use at other banks.
I wasn't aware that any other banks referred to quants/structurers as strats. Maybe it's a research role?
Didn't your interviewers describe the desk/work?
...a desk analyst is an analyst at an investment bank whose research isnt published but is proprietary and used by traders internally only. For eg, alot of firms have an economist who publishes research, creates the firms official forecasts, etc. and then another who is called a "desk analyst" because he does work for traders in-house and not clients. The regular economist is more visible because his name is on research, etc but the desk analyst has a clearer path toward a risk-taking role if he wants it. Desk analysts can be either quants or more qualitative.
Did you say "desk analyst" deliberately or do you actually mean desk strategist? Are the titles interchangeable?
Honestly strategies at any bank other than GS are entirely support for the traders. GS has a few strats desks that are completely different in that they have their own book and trade significant prop strategies on there own, usually high frequency stat arb. These desks are more focused on prop trading than support, though they work closely with traders to develop synergistic models/strats.
At the energy shop I interned at, they were trying to copy the BB model for research. The head of research told me that some BB have almost for every 2 power or natty gas traders, 1 person who will do "real-time" research. This is outside the PhDs who make crazy math models.
For instance a Chicago/Wharton Phd will make a crazy model over 2-4 months figuring out where "Storage" will be at the end of summer.
While maybe on the month, a trader has a position and needs to figure out how a new pipeline being built will affect his position. Over time the research person will know how the traders think, and then begin to anticipate the data they need, and provide ahead of time.
All the top energy shops have people who do this.
The nightmare of working for a strategist (Originally Posted: 01/30/2010)
I work at a BB bank as an associate for a famous equity strategist (ie, this person is on TV every other day and quoted all over the media). I landed this position in an unusual manner and with unorthodox qualifications.
After getting an undergraduate business degree and working in a non-financial industry for a couple years, I somehow ended up working at a university research center for several years, earning a meager salary while also working with a professor who ran his own consulting firm (strategy work for quasi-governmental organizations). Having worked at a business school for such a length of time and already having an undergraduate business degree, I felt no desire to enroll in a B school and got a graduate degree in a completely different area while working. At this point, I figured I had spent too much time in a university environment and was trying to decide whether to do a PhD and become an academic--or go back to a real world career.
I did not expect to be able to break into an IB at this stage, but came across a contract hire position that emphasized a research background (but not prior financial experience). Amazingly I got the job, worked like a dog and became permanent after several months. I thought it was my big break at the time, but I now realize I was just ripe for exploitation and that this job is leading nowhere. For one thing, I was hired at the low-end of the associate base salary spectrum--which seemed fair considering my lack of industry experience. However, the first year (2007) I was told that I had joined too late to be in the bonus pool. Last year I got a measly 3-month bonus (despite receiving the highest review level), and stayed at the same salary level. I have a feeling I'm going to get screwed over again for 2009.
The boss is a complete narcissist who feels he has advanced beyond the stage of needing to contribute towards any of the research that goes out in his name (except for a brief final review and revising some sentences into first-person narrative). There are three of us slaving over the output while fielding constant client requests and internal nonsense, all of which must go out in the boss' name (we get secondary/tertiary credit on the reports). We go through the daily degradation of hearing our boss praised for work he contributed nothing towards. He spends all day talking on the phone and courting the media...never meets with the team before 8pm and deals with everything in the most inefficient possible manner and with maximum rudeness. As his stature has grown, he is being invited to more and more conferences and so we have an endless pile of busy work... tweaking powerpoints for different events, preparing notes for different speeches. The quality of work is turning into junk due to time constraints, and he doesn't seem to care... believing he can now function on the level of market commentary. His one talent is the gift of the gab.The entire research team hates our guts because the boss is always "drawing" on their work without giving due credit and going on TV to talk ignorantly about the sectors they cover. Sales know we are a joke. However, we have a massive client following. Due to this person's egomania, it doesn't seem there is much hope of advancement in terms of responsibility. I've spoken to him about the possibility of a transfer and was laughed at for being crazy to want to leave this dynamic team.
I need to come up with an exit plan or a Machiavellian political maneuver because I can't take another year of this. Can't work for someone I loathe and have no respect for, who earns 20 times my salary.This job brings no benefits other than offering a living wage, prestigious employer and the cachet of working for someone famous. Where does a person go from this type of experience? I wouldn't mind changing industries altogether or working in an internal business strategy type of group. Also, what should I consider a "fair" 2009 bonus, in light of what I've been through? How much of a raise + automatic salary adjustment is realistic? Also, how much of a raise should be expected if I somehow go to VP?
whine more plzzzzzzz
Delete this asap. Stupidest post ever. You need pay your dues.
Well I don't think this is a stupid post. In fact I kind of feel sorry for this guy, b/c the glamor of working for the superstar can quickly turn into a nightmare if one gets no credit or reward for what he's done.
Ontheshore, but that being said I'd rather seek some advice from the people who know both you and that asshole, and not from some college kids like me.
That guy sounds like a douche. I've never really understood why some bosses are big fking pricks...it does no one any good.
Anyways, I'd be applying left and right (even within the bank) trying to get the fk out of there. Seems like the experience you're getting is great since you and a team of 2 others are pretty much doing all the work that he is getting "praised" for.
Barry Knapp?
wait till you hear about the bonus number - i hope you are paid accordingly this time - otherwise screw this
This should be in the ER forum.
just do what your boss tells you. i know it's probably a pain but what's the other option? i mean, it's not exactly a surprise that the bold faced name is not doing the research, modeling or writing and is hustling to grow his client base.
you DO NOT want a boss who spends all day in excel. you want a boss that is following the news but who is also growing his client base. this is what the bank wants him to do. the reason they have you is so that you can do the grunt work. the reason they have him is so that he can suck up to the buy side.
i know it's sometimes easier said than done, but if it is truly so bad you should just start looking. whatever you do, don't spoil your relationship with your analyst before you leave. a guy like that could make life difficult for you. and don't get caught doing something stupid like posting stuff to a message board in a manner than can identify you because you kind of come across as naive and bitchy. no offense :)
So you are in equities - let me guess, you are at MS/GS/JPM?
The reason for that assumption is that equity strat teams in those firms (as well as other BBs) typically paraphrase single-name research and are hated by all members of their research team.
To the op:
I would be very careful about posting shit like this on a public forum.
You need to befriend this guy if you want to go elsewhere. If he doesn't like you, he will not give you a reference, and you will have zero exits.
If anyone that works remotely near you reads this post, there is likely enough unique info for them to realize who you are, and it could get back to your boss. Would delete this post.
Strategist roles at i-banks (Originally Posted: 01/09/2012)
I know that banks have strategists for various desks, who help formulate trading ideas for the traders and sales people. I had previously thought that this role was only for people with economics phd's, but according to a friend, banks also recruit mba's for the strategist position. Is this true? If so, how difficult is it to get such a job coming from a MBA business schools ">M7 program? And what are the usual exit options for bank strategists?
Not Econ PhDs only. Numerous posting of the sort at Sloan, accessible to MBAs, MFins and PhDs. That being said, MBAs generally don't have the technical skills, nor the desire, to apply for these positions - pretty heavy coding, math, algorithms, model building and econometrics involved. But if you are an MBA and have the skills, you will almost certainly get an interview. If I recall correctly, many of the programs give you a test prior to first round - McK style - that consists of brainteasers, basic pseudo-coding/algorithm construction, and so forth. I specifically recall posting at Sloan for MS, GS, Barclay's and a couple more strat roles.
Thanks. This is helpful.
For the mba's, I wonder how much coding they are looking for. Did one have to have been a CS major, or is proficiency in vba and python enough? Also, were these postings for specific desks?
This is clearly for a FI strategist position...equity strategists dont necessarily need these technical skills (you might if you are an options strategist). If you're following a qualitative strategy such as risk arb, you wont do any technicals, as the likelyhood of the deal closing rests on subjective factors.
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