What if I Can't Afford a Target School?

I see so much hype around this website about attending a target school, and that it is very difficult to break into a good finance career without a target school background. However, is it worth it to carry the debt of these schools? At what point would you consider the advantages of a target to be outweighed by the debt incurred?

For example: Boston College at 55K / Year and graduate 80K in debt or Bentley University at 35K / Year and graduate with no debt?

I understand going to a strong undergraduate school will help with job placement, but is it worth if I'm just draining my future paycheck paying back student loans with interest?

Thanks for your help

 

Also not saying Bentley University is not a good business school. I think it's a great business school, but I just know that some people on this site would not consider it a "target" school

 

Bentley has a presence, albeit not a strong one. At the end of the day if you can leverage your skills, resources and luck you can do pretty well in finance by attending Bentley.

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
 

Indiana for 45k, Minnesota for 29k are both reasonable options. Depending on what state u live in your state flagship may be good as well. Depending on you stats u could get solid merit aid from somewhere.

"Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry."
 

Yea I figured. UMass isn't great in terms of IB placement as you probably know. I would definitely rule out Bentley because some state schools are better. Check out Penn State's Nittany Lion Fund. You would prob get into the honors college which brings COA down to ~40k.

"Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry."
 

go to the best school you can within reason. As much as I think a liberal arts degree graduates a much more well rounded student on average I would advocate for getting a b.s. Unless of course IVY. Honestly they use the same textbooks at Harvard that they use in Westchester Community College, but it's a brand and marketing.

If you can't afford a target then why worry. If you can and want to justify the higher price tag, well then you can. Your generation is screwed price at a terrible school(private) is the same as the price at a higher end school for the most part. Or the difference is minimal.

 

I wish more people would consider debt before they go on to school. I'm looking at you creative writing major 100k in debt.

I agree with Whattherock, apply to numerous tiers of schools. Target, semi-target, and top state schools. With your stats you should get some scholarship help somewhere. Once you have received your financial aid estimates, go to the best possible school you can and still have a reasonable debt load. It is ok to have debt, and considering you said you wouldn't have any debt attending Bentley at 35K/year, you must have someone willing to pay that much per year for you. For 35k you can go to almost any top state school, but you might as well just bite the bullet and pay the premium to almost guarantee yourself the opportunity to break in..

 

No man... if other people aren't/won't be straight with you here, allow me: the most important consideration in choosing your college is whether or not they have OCR from banks. Even if you think you can be gung-ho with networking, all banks have 'non-core' quotas and simply cannot take more than a certain number of students outside of their target schools. I have friends who have been fucked by this. Trust me, if you truly want to do banking, bite the bullet and go to a target school.

 

I would look into state schools (assuming you're from the NE if you're considering BU / Bentley) such as UMass, UConn, Rutgers, etc. Granted none of them are target schools, you could:

  1. Get a good amount of money for attending
  2. be put into the honors programs

I think it's worth applying and see what they give you. People from those schools have gone into banking (look at LinkedIn) but it'll definitely be tough.

If i were you, I would get into the best school I could ESPECIALLY if you're going into finance. Even if you don't go banking, many other finance roles make good money so you won't be living paycheck-to-paycheck regardless.

 

I was in a very similar boat. I got into BC for 65K per year vs UMass for 25k per year. I went with UMass and I wish more people would consider it.

This year the following employers are coming to campus according to my friends on campus: John Hancock (buy side) Wellington (Business Analyst program includes buy side) Fidelity (buy side - high yield bond research) BNY Mellon (internships) JPM (corporate analyst development program) State Street (every role imaginable) Citi (securities summer intern) UBS and Credit Suisse took resumes from the Finance Club for IB positions canaccord genuity (investment banking front office) + a lot more

Here is the real game changer: we can go to recruitment events at Amherst College, the #2 liberal arts college in the country. I got some interviews are top places (IB, consulting, ect) as a result of going to their events.

So did I have to hustle more? probably. Did I save about $160 grand? yup. I got a great offer leaving school (>100k) for the industry I want. So it worked for me and it could work for others as well. I wouldn't be so fast to rule out UMass if you are trying to avoid debt. (with that said, if you get a big scholarship to BC, go there).

 

Take it from a non-target student paying his way through school, go to the best school you possibly can and take the gummit debt

Don't worry about any government debt, it's below market rates, tons of forgiveness etc,. You have 60 years to pay it off, and if it lands you from an IB job, which leads to PE jobs, which leads to fat $$ and top B schools which leads to fatter $$... you get the point. Private debt is a more troubling prospect.

To break it down you are talking about ~$200 a month to ~300 a month when you prachecks are around $2500 a month and your bonus es are ~50K, You can get all of tihs paid off within your first 2 - 3years if you are seroius about it, but you really have more like 10 to get it done.

 

Be careful about taking on too much debt. What happens if in two years you decide that banking isn't what you want to do? At that point you'll be faced with either getting into finance because you have to pay down your debt, or going into the field you want and be paying off your loans for the next 10 years.

You may think you are 100% sold on wall street, but let's be honest, when you're 18, you don't really know anything and industry dynamics can change dramatically. Coming out of HS, i was 100% set on going to law school, a couple years into college i realized this was not the path i wanted to take and pivoted into finance. I'm not saying you should go to Northeastern State Tech Community College, but you don't necessarily have to spend 70k a year to have solid options for job placement.

 

When you go to umass you can use Amherst's career center to go to events and contact recruiters. In some cases you can even use their OCR. However, their majors are so different any UMass major that no one transfers. But there is no need to transfer to get the benefits from it

 

Are recruiters receptive to Umass students coming to Amherst College events? There isn't really a great relationship between Umass/Amherst College, and given the fact that most employees at Events would be recent Amherst Alums, I cant see this strategy producing many results.

 

I don't think it really matters what school you go to, as long as the school that you attend has a decent pool of alumni for you to reach out to. My school doesn't get any IB traction at all. Most of the jobs that are recruited here are for operations roles at BB or assurance/audit at Big 4. However, we still have 30-40 people working in front-office roles in finance that I was able to reach out to. Out of those 30-40 people, you end up getting strong leads from 3-5, and it's up to you to make the most out of that opportunity. Just make sure that you're a strong student, involved, and can distinguish yourself from other kids coming out from your school.

I go to my in-state school and I'm graduating with 40K in debt. If I had ended up going to IU, Michigan, or NYU, like I originally wanted to after I got my acceptances, I'd be looking at >100K in debt. Yet, I'm now probably in the same position as I would have been if I had gone to one of those semi-targets/targets. So my advice to you: go to a place that you can afford, can have a good time, and even if it's a non-target like UMass, just put your head down, work hard, and put yourself in front of as many alumni and other people you come across as possible. Also, Bentley's a good school. I've heard of a good number of kids from there placing into decent MM. In my opinion, going heavy with debt is only worth it if you get into HYPS or a comparable school (MIT, Wharton, etc).

 
Superlative:

I don't think it really matters what school you go to, as long as the school that you attend has a decent pool of alumni for you to reach out to. My school doesn't get any IB traction at all. Most of the jobs that are recruited here are for operations roles at BB or assurance/audit at Big 4. However, we still have 30-40 people working in front-office roles in finance that I was able to reach out to. Out of those 30-40 people, you end up getting strong leads from 3-5, and it's up to you to make the most out of that opportunity. Just make sure that you're a strong student, involved, and can distinguish yourself from other kids coming out from your school.

I go to my in-state school and I'm graduating with 40K in debt. If I had ended up going to IU, Michigan, or NYU, like I originally wanted to after I got my acceptances, I'd be looking at >100K in debt. Yet, I'm now probably in the same position as I would have been if I had gone to one of those semi-targets/targets. So my advice to you: go to a place that you can afford, can have a good time, and even if it's a non-target like UMass, just put your head down, work hard, and put yourself in front of as many alumni and other people you come across as possible. Also, Bentley's a good school. I've heard of a good number of kids from there placing into decent MM. In my opinion, going heavy with debt is only worth it if you get into HYPS or a comparable school (MIT, Wharton, etc).

School absolutely matters and will stay with you for life unless you plan on MBA business schools ">M7.

 

Don't believe the hype. Outside of your first few years of college, people rarely give a damn about which school you went to as long as you can do your job without your hand being held.

Boston college is a joke compared to Bentley as far as business goes. Are they both great business schools? Absolutely. Are the networks both great? Yes.

People on here swinging their dicks around because of what school they went to have no real substance behind them. If you want to hide behind a name, that's fine. Just realize a target school may not be the best fit for you.

Source, me. Community college, then went to a state school, then got an MBA at a good regional school in the Northeast.

Living and working in Manhattan, so I didn't do terrible, just realize there's a lot more to it than the schools name after a few years.

Don't kill yourself for student loans. I've got a lot less than my peers who I went to grad school with, and can somewhat enjoy my life.

My girl is doing her MBA at Stern and said the coursework I did at my school was harder by comparison than at stern. Networking with alumni is what you're paying for.

'77 CB 750 '69 Cortina GT
 

Assuming that he will get noticed by the recruiters who frequent BC? How delusional are you? Those spots are chosen ahead of time and already accounted for. Sure you have a shot, but don't hang your hat on it and go into debt for something that someone with better connections will gain. The debt isn't worth it, just because a recruiter goes there does not guarantee a job.

Someone mentioned Baruch. If you're looking to get on the street, that's the place to go. They're close to it all, known for their finance / accounting and always have someone who can fill in a spot.

Think long and hard about future cash flows before you decide. Good luck OP.

'77 CB 750 '69 Cortina GT
 

Went to Babson College (down the street from Bentley)... Bentley is definitely not worth it. I saw one user say look at UVA or UMich. Any upper-tier state school will have good relationships especially UMich, IU, UVA, UNC and Cal.

 

A lot of those schools are need-blind and meet 100% of your need in financial aid with grants. Vandy especially follows the same policy as Brown and meets 100% of need in full with grants and has a no-loan policy, last I remember. Many people don't realize that target schools have some of the best systems for financial aid in place that often make them cheaper than state schools. The only situation where I've seen state schools cost less is when parents are making enough to pay for tuition but simply choose not to. In that case, state schools win out.

 
BillBelichick37:

My vote: IU, Rutgers, Baruch, Penn St, UVA, WUSTL, Vandy, and then maybe G-town.

IU surprisingly crushes it, but I'd put Baruch above Rutgers. The networking / alumni network are low key all over the place in the city.

'77 CB 750 '69 Cortina GT
 

I dont understand why you're suggesting state schools because he can't be in-state at all of them. At least private schools might give him more merit money. UVA is the only public on that list that gives OOS financial aid.

 

ROTC. Pick a cushy branch that sounds cool, like Military Intel, but do 8 years reserve instead of 4 years active duty and 4 years reserve. There are a couple large bases around NYC, Dallas and SF you could report to after school, while focusing on your civilian career.

"That was basically college for me, just ya know, fuckin' tourin' with Widespread Panic over the USA."
 

It's a great idea that should be seriously considered, I did that route. I also get to use my GI Bill to help pay for business school. The new military, especially on the reserve side, is very accommodating. Yeah, a lot of the active duty people I work with have a big chip on their shoulder and use the term civilian with a negative connotation.

"That was basically college for me, just ya know, fuckin' tourin' with Widespread Panic over the USA."
 

It's funny to me, a friend of mine just bought a place down the road in Provence, anyways, they spent $110k (in a green zone so they couldn't change the size of the structure and the place is TINY) on the property, renovated the interior so they have a master suite, walk-in closet and nice bathroom upstairs, downstairs is a decent kitchen and sitting area. The gem of their property is all the outdoor space, which makes sense for how great the weather is....Dropped 60k on renovations and landscaping (a lot of landscaping). Some of the student loans people on this board are talking about would effectively buy themselves a modest getaway home in southern Europe, or go pretty far in paying off their house in a lower COL city. Which is sort of the point. An 'prestigious' MBA is probably worth it, especially if you're somewhat established and have a solid idea what you want to do. But coming out of undergrad, heavily indebted is a position of weakness IMO.

 

You can break into finance from a shitty school (just finished recruiting for IB, saw it happen all the time); it's just far more unlikely.

Like someone else mentioned on this thread, nontarget schools have a "quota" at larger banks (literally they can't take that many nontargets because spots are reserved for targets), and regardless of how hard you network you simply won't have as many opportunities on the table.

The reason why taking on debt is worth it is Finance 101: Time value of money. Sure lose some money now, but high finance is probably the highest paying/growth career out there (of course excluding entrepreneurism, entertainment, etc.) 1st year out of college making 130K+ and that number only going higher as the years roll on... Practice your NPV, and do the math. Give yourself a generous discount rate-- I'm sure it'll still work out regardless.

 

I'm from MA too, many friends who are Alumni of both of these schools. PM me if you want to chat about your options. Most importantly - don't make banking the only thing you consider. Or debt for that matter, college is way to significant an experience to reduce it to one or two deciding factors.

 

Thank you for all the great advice! I'm applying to college within the next week and a half, and I have a pretty long list of colleges I'm applying to. It's a mix of safeties, matches, and reach schools around the Northeast area. Also I wasn't specifically referring to I-Banking; I'm only 17, so I'm not sure exactly what I want to do yet.

This is my list though: Babson College Bentley University Boston College Bowdoin College Bryant University Cornell University Fordham University Harvard College Northeastern University Providence College University of Massachusetts - Amherst Villanova University

I have Bowdoin on my list because I wanted to have a liberal arts college on my list, and I really like Bowdoin. I'm not really "Ivy-caliber" given my stats, so most of my schools aren't what most would call "targets." I just want to find a great school that will give me opportunities that's a good fit for me.

 
Matt-McLaughlin1:

Thank you for all the great advice! I'm applying to college within the next week and a half, and I have a pretty long list of colleges I'm applying to. It's a mix of safeties, matches, and reach schools around the Northeast area. Also I wasn't specifically referring to I-Banking; I'm only 17, so I'm not sure exactly what I want to do yet.

This is my list though:
Babson College
Bentley University
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Bryant University
Cornell University
Fordham University
Harvard College
Northeastern University
Providence College
University of Massachusetts - Amherst
Villanova University

I have Bowdoin on my list because I wanted to have a liberal arts college on my list, and I really like Bowdoin. I'm not really "Ivy-caliber" given my stats, so most of my schools aren't what most would call "targets." I just want to find a great school that will give me opportunities that's a good fit for me.

looks like you're not yet comfortable with your tier. you might end up wasting a ton of time and application fees. if so, try a few early action schools to see how you stack against the population.

 

If you aren't Ivy-Caliber, dont waste the $75-ish on the Harvard app. To be honest- this list is pretty bad. No one on earth is considering Bryant as well as Harvard/Bowdoin/Cornell. The list is a good mix of semi-targets, but based on your stats I'd advise you to apply to more LAC schools. Any nescac school is essentially the same exact thing ie. Bowdoin will be an almost identical experience to Williams/amherst/Midd/ and to a lesser extent Trinity/Conn/Wesleyan. All of them have much better recruiting than schools like Umass/Providence/Babson/Bentley, and even the latter schools send a few people to BB every year, keep in mind you'd literally be competing against hundreds of your peers for those spots.. You should share some basic stats (GPA/SAT) so that people can give you somewhat of an idea where you stand.

 

Honestly man, I would consider avoiding it. Or at least wait to transfer until your junior year. Unsecured student loan rates are pretty awful lately.. I've looked at some of those SLABS deals, and the default rates in some of the models were not pretty.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
 

$160k is B-School money. Save your family's cash for a worthwhile investment. I don't think any UG program is worth that much money.

FACT: Binghamton is NOT worth your money. Syracuse, Cornell, Columbia, NYU ARE. And if you don't have that kind of money, find some roommates, move to Brooklyn and transfer to Baruch.

Sources: NYS resident my whole life, school in upstate NYS, friends in each school listed (including Bing).

in it 2 win it
 
FSC:
$160k is B-School money. Save your family's cash for a worthwhile investment. I don't think any UG program is worth that much money.

FACT: Binghamton is NOT worth your money. Syracuse, Cornell, Columbia, NYU ARE. And if you don't have that kind of money, find some roommates, move to Brooklyn and transfer to Baruch.

Sources: NYS resident my whole life, school in upstate NYS, friends in each school listed (including Bing).

Wait, Syracuse is worth 160k in loans?? for IB? Last time I checked, Syracuse isn't a target school.

Also, Cornell is so not worth 160k in loans to attend. neither is NYU.

 
yetirat376:
Well, I didn't get any money from Stern when I applied in high school, and Cornell only gave me loans. I should just transfer to Baruch, then?

i think you shouldn't transfer... if you have to take out huge loans. Then again if you transfer your junior year, then you have to take debt only for those two years of attendance so it might be manageable.

If you are dead-set on doing IB or Trading, transferring to cornell or NYU stern could be worth it. however, in this economy, many kids from cornell don't get IB jobs, so it is kinda risky to transfer in my opinion

i go to cornell and know several kids with 3.5+ GPA who accepted jobs at BO and MO at BB's. pretty depressing stuff. Lastly, i think not enough people are aware of how competitive OCR is at a target school. especially at NYU Stern where every kid is gunning for IBD and S&T, shit is rough.

and, you shouldn't transfer to Baruch. It is not much of an upgrade from your current school to justify transferring.

 

I don't agree with the above posters. If you know you want to pursue a career in a competitive industry that will pay you enough money to cover your loans payments after graduation then go for it. You cannot put a price on the education you will receive from one of these target schools. My only advice is to make sure that it is a truly academic school that will give you all the rewards an elite education should.

Don't settle for Syracuse, Baruch, or even to a certain extent NYU because they are "targets" for IB. Go to a target to get a chance to learn and interact with some of the most intelligent people you will ever meet. I honestly regret choosing my school for the practical applications of its UG business school when I could have gone to an Ivy and had this much more rich experience.

Be certain though, that you want IB or another well paying industry because your parents life earnings are on the line. If you don't get that 80K+ job out of UG than they will be the ones who fall victim to the loans.

In short, if you are willing to sacrifice a little money in the future to continue making payments on the loans than 100% go, it will be entirely worthwhile.

 
ProspectiveMonkey:
I don't agree with the above posters. If you know you want to pursue a career in a competitive industry that will pay you enough money to cover your loans payments after graduation then go for it. You cannot put a price on the education you will receive from one of these target schools. My only advice is to make sure that it is a truly academic school that will give you all the rewards an elite education should.

Don't settle for Syracuse, Baruch, or even to a certain extent NYU because they are "targets" for IB. Go to a target to get a chance to learn and interact with some of the most intelligent people you will ever meet. I honestly regret choosing my school for the practical applications of its UG business school when I could have gone to an Ivy and had this much more rich experience.

Be certain though, that you want IB or another well paying industry because your parents life earnings are on the line. If you don't get that 80K+ job out of UG than they will be the ones who fall victim to the loans.

In short, if you are willing to sacrifice a little money in the future to continue making payments on the loans than 100% go, it will be entirely worthwhile.

I know some dudes who are paying off loans from college well into their 30's. It is a fucking nightmare.

That said, decisions like this can't be ignored without taking finances into consideration. It seems like OP won't be getting much aid at all even if he gets into target schools. That means, if he transfers his junior year, he would need to take out 100k in loans, at least.

Education at undergrad level is more or less the same shit, i think. It is what you make out of it. Yeah, true, the kids in your classroom are smarter and more motivated, but that could be both good and bad. Good? you get to learn and be challenged by your peers. Bad? the curve. the grades. It is much tougher to get 3.7+ at an Ivy compared to a regular state school, since the caliber of competition is much higher.

i think the best option for OP is first trying to network and land a competitive internship on the street. that way, if he develops connections and builds solid resume, he will be competitive for i-banking even coming out of non-target. not to mention, transferring to a target won't guarantee success with IBD recruiting, and in case OP strikes out at finance after transferring, he might get fucked with shit tons of debt that he can't easily pay back with just a regular corporate job. note: MOST of kids from target school WON'T break into banking or top consulting. this is just a fact

 

I agree with the waiting for grad school for loans like that.

If you are like most, you are chasing banking for the money. Keep in mind that if you go from $0-->120/160k in debt, your $70k will be more like $50k or less(loan payments HURT). Your total net worth before business school, even with a sizable IB bonus, will also likely still be less. This assumes your parents will make you pay for it.

I would shoot for smaller boutiques and just make the 50-80 all-in for a few years without the debt. Then go to B-School where the debt is high, but so is your target total income.

 

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