Breaking Into Investment Banking In Canada

Hey guys,

I am going into my second year at the University Of Toronto (not Rotman), and I am currently enrolled in the BBA Program (Management Specialist). I wanted to know more about how to break into investment banking in Canada as I couldn't find a lot of content on the topic. What is the GPA cutoff in Canada? Is it easier to get into the field as compared to the US? And since I don't go to Rotman, I guess i'm not a target school so how can I increase my chances of breaking into the field?

Any help/advice would be appreciated!
Thank you

 

Isn't there a Bay Street Igloo site or something similar? I could be wrong but honestly doubt cutoffs would vary much between the same firm in different locations. Generally an A- average would do you well at most firms. Obviously you can get in with lower but you'll just need to network harder.. I imagine Canadians would have an easier time breaking into Canadian IB as would an American into American IB.. and it would be harder across borders for either.

Swinging Through
 

Here is some quick advice that comes to mind...

1.'m not particularly sure what the GPA "cut-off" is, but to be safe I'd try to have a GPA of around 3.7ish (even more so because you are coming from a non-target.)

  1. You'll also want some solid extracurriculars that you can throw on your resume and that add to your "story" of why you're interested in investment banking.

  2. Try to find an internship for next summer that is at least somewhat related to finance. You could start networking for this now...

  3. The summer between 3rd and 4th you'll want to secure an investment banking internship at one of Canada's banks. It's important that you secure an IB internship during this summer because they will usually hire 2/3rds of their interns. Also, the banks generally interview interns between September and November for the following summer and most students start studying for the interview 3-4 months prior.

  4. It might be important to note that investment bank employers don't normally seek out management majors. Majors such as finance, economics or hard sciences such as engineering are usually what are preferred. With this said this doesn't mean they don't hire management majors. If you can switch your specialization to finance or something that might be beneficial, but if you really enjoy management stick with that.

  5. Overall you want to develop strong, analytical, presentation, communication and social skills as these are the skills most needed for IB.

7.Make sure you ask yourself if you are genuinely interested in investment banking (most don't). It is a very fast-paced and demanding career. You'll have to work early in the morning to late at night, Monday to Friday and sometimes on weekends. If you are just attracted to this occupation because of the paycheck, it's probably not for you.

 

Rotman is not a target school. Maybe for Big 4 Accounting, but definitely not for investment banking. Facts are facts and the only true targets in Canada are Ivey and Queens.

The one advantage you have is that you're in Toronto so make use of it and network. UofT is extremely close to Bay Street so you can get internships during the year to make yourself more competitive.

 

Absolutely false. In Ontario, banks actively recruit at Ivey, Queen's, Rotman, Schulich, Waterloo and Laurier (and many other unis across Canada). Ivey and Queen's will place more people as their business programs are better, but you will a more or less equal chance at any of these unis. FYI, I ran recruiting for one of the big 5 banks when I was an analyst.

On the other hand, OCR is generally only for business school students (ie. Rotman) and when it is open to all students, it it generally because the university forced banks to do so and banks don't generally review non bschool applications very seriously (if at all).

To the OP, I would focus on trying to transfer to rotman.

 

Well since you've actually recruited students I'll not go against you, but I honestly think your view might be slightly outdated.

I seriously considered applying to Rotman as a safety when I went through the application process but I haven't heard great things about the school. A quick search through yconic, reddit and even WSO will show you what even current students think about rotman. Grade deflation, poor interview prep and terrible infrastructure (classes in a tiny basement?) does not lead to competitive candidates being produced for IB. I think last year only a handle of students out of 800 got into the Big 5 for FO roles.

The Rotman MBA however, is a lot better - I'm purely talking about the undergrad program.

 
Best Response

No offense, but this is the problem with this site. People read stuff on the internet and then regurgitate it as if they have actually experience and knowledge. I honestly don't know what compels people to offer advise when they have no fucking clue what they are talking about.

A target is a school which banks judge to have enough potential talent to actively recruit through OCR. That's it. There's no question that for commerce, Ivey and Queen's are better, they have a stronger student body, have more resources (comes with being more expensive) and a stronger alumni network. That doesn't mean that quality candidates cannot be found at other schools so Canadian banks cast a fairly wide net in their recruiting and a lot of unis are represented. You seem to confuse quality of the student experience at a given school with the actual quality and potential of the students.

 

Shoot for a PWM internship next summer and then in your third year try and land a gig with a boutique. Do this via cold-calling/cold-emailing (I prefer email). Regardless whether or not you attend Rotman, you still go to U of T which has great resources and is reputable. Reiterating the above post, make use of the location advantage. Also, volunteer with the Toronto CFA Society.

 

if you're going to go to ryerson for an MBA, i would start scouring linkedin for ryerson alumni that are in that field... even with an MBA you're going to have to network your ass off to stand a chance against Ivey, Rotman, Schulich, etc...

You'll also want to look at your resume objectively. With an MBA you'll be applying for associate roles, so when a recruiter sees your Seneca Bcom + Ryerson MBA vs for example a Schulich BBA and a Rotman MBA, you better have a significant edge somewhere else to get a second glance at your application.

You might actually be better of doing a university undergrad and crushing the courses and landing relevant internships and then networking to a full time offer by the time you graduate. This way you could essentially leverage your Seneca knowledge to get better marks and not have it negatively brand you in the eyes of recruiters (sorry to be blunt).

 

I don't think you can apply to analyst positions from an MBA. I would definitely try to transfer college credits toward a university finish undergrad at UoT, Ryerson, or York.

I would not go directly from undergrad to MBA. Maybe at Degroot which is a co-op program you can get some experience in finance and network toward banking but chances are low.

From speaking with Rotman and Ivey MBA grads I understand there are very few associate positions at the large Canadian banks.

 

I regards to MBA, most of the target canadian grad schools for banks require 2+ years of experience. Second, in respect to your analyst Q, yes, you can apply as analyst post MBA however the track will be somewhat diffirent. If you go to target most of the advertised positions at the school will be for associate. hope this helps.

 

Thank you all for your valuable insight. I would be greatful for any other advice/feedback!

Also would an internship with Citibank's corporate banking division in Pakistan help?

And what sort of extracurriculars do IBs look for? Do they prefer students involved with 5-6 different clubs/societies or is it better to stick with one or two clubs that I'm passionate about, coupled with 2-3 case competitions and a finance related internship?

 

Anything finance related will help. Citibank is still a BB and even though its corporate banking its a start - you can use it as leverage for a PWM internship during the school year. Definitely stick with two to three clubs max and get leadership positions in those - you don't want to overload and let your GPA take a hit.

Also like one of the posters said - try and switch from management to finance if you can. Which campus are you in? UTM or UTSC?

 

Scotia Capital is fairly prominent in emerging markets (I guess it's safe to draw parallels to Citi) while RBC Global Capital Markets does have some operations in London and the States.

Out of curiosity, why did you opt to pursue a MBA in Canada if you're striving to break into HFs?

I win here, I win there...
 
ArbitRAGE.:
Scotia Capital is fairly prominent in emerging markets (I guess it's safe to draw parallels to Citi) while RBC Global Capital Markets does have some operations in London and the States.

Out of curiosity, why did you opt to pursue a MBA in Canada if you're striving to break into HFs?

Good Morning and thanks , Arbitrage!! What comes with a Canadian MBA is a Canadian Passport, i am a Chinese citizen and Canadian PR, however my passport will get me nowhere near a HF...

 
ArbitRAGE.:
As for S&T: Scotia Capital- Fixed Income RBC CM- Jack of all trades BMO- Foreign Exchange

From what I hear, TD Securities is the Fixed Income powerhouse here. I heard Scotia is very strong in rates.

-MBP
 

Hey Sambainan, how does a candian MBA get you a canadian passport, interested to hear about that

Maybe I do not have quotes under my name on google, but I KEEP IT REAL
 

TD - Oil & Gas (their Oil Sands group is killing it), TMT BMO - Mining (literally best in the world) CIBC - Like Bob Sacamano said but their Mining group is really good RBC - Everything except mining Scotia - Oil & gas

 

Oil & Gas investment banking is probably where you want to be. My BB has a regional office in Calgary where they do that. I think Calgary is like the Houston of Canada, where finance is centered around oil & gas. With your background you probably have a better shot at that specific segment of the industry.

I haven't actually been up there so don't know who you could get in touch with...

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.
 
Beef:
Oil & Gas investment banking is probably where you want to be. My BB has a regional office in Calgary where they do that. I think Calgary is like the Houston of Canada, where finance is centered around oil & gas. With your background you probably have a better shot at that specific segment of the industry.

I haven't actually been up there so don't know who you could get in touch with...

What about Houston?Do you know anybody there since I'll be travelling there in October for week? I would like to try to meet some people if possible.
The dragon dozes off in the spirit which is its dwelling.
 

After more research Calgary makes more sense. Since I have no banking experience I was tempted to register with the analyst exchange (www.analystexchange.com) for their IB program.How are such programs viewed by recruiters?Would I have a better shot trying to network or going through the analyst exchange program?Is there any advice you can give me on how to break in? Thank you again for your responses.

The dragon dozes off in the spirit which is its dwelling.
 

Wtf is that program? Never heard of it. The site doesn't work either.

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.
 
Beef:
Wtf is that program? Never heard of it. The site doesn't work either.
It's one of those trainings program that offers one week of financial modelling classes and 5 weeks of internship. I have had some problems with the site lately too, but i have seen threads about it on several different IB blogs/sites (including this one).
The dragon dozes off in the spirit which is its dwelling.
 

hey, I'm in my 3rd year of finance in Taiwan, would go to Queen's for exchange this Sep. recently talk to a guy with similar background as you do, his first two years were Big 4 then cold mail, cafe chat, and anything like that meanwhile finally got an offer from Barclays IBD maybe it's a nice choice if you won't able to directly break into IB after graduate?

 

I won't attempt to say that I'm an expert on Cananda, but I worked and lived in London for a few years in the IB/PE world and knew a couple of Canadians in London who started their careers in Canada and it seemed like the Canadian finance world was somewhat similar to the UK. I also don't know your university or where it ranks, if banks recruit on-campus, etc. But...you should try a multi-pronged approach. First, try to network your way into IB. I don't know if you'll have luck there but there are a few Canadian regional/boutiques based in Toronto where you may have luck. Most are natural resource focused. Second, you may want to look at a Big 4 and get experience there in audit and become a Chartered Accountant and try to get in then. A lot of people I knew at non-bulge bracket IB's in London started their careers at a Big 4, became CA's then moved into banking. To a degree, it seemed like it was a more traditional way to get into IB at the non-BB level. Alternatively, get into a Big 4 and then try to get into their M&A transactional services group, get experience and build contacts, then return and get your MBA and get into banking after.

 

Do you think this is a good use of time? I've had different people tell me different things. Some say you can get a job through an online app some say you never will. Do you know anyone who's had success this way?

 

Yeah, I haven't done the online applications for the BBs... taking a shot at it next year. It is my understanding (I'm no pro) that so long as you meet certain statistical cutoff points (3.8 gpa/some EC/some experience) you can get yourself an interview.

A friend of mine's roommate got a summer analyst position with Citi in Calgary through a linkedin application, and the guy goes to UofA. Now that's a non-target, and the guy is pretty plain jane. I was really surprised to hear this, although Citi isn't BB.

Also, these jobs are a big part about fit so if you can light up an interview, you probably have a shot.

There's no reason not to take a crack at it since the online application is so streamlined - do the best you can.

 

I don't think not having a target on your resume is going to hold you back given your story, but you have missed the recruiting period for this year's classes and since you just graduated, that puts you in a tough position. While not impossible, I'd say that your chances or directly landing in IB is pretty slim so I would take a longer term approach and try to initially target jobs that would help you develop a good skill set and provide a better path to an IB lateral hire (ie. corp fin, big 4 TAS). There's a lot more lateral hires at the analyst level than people think and in my experience, almost all came from roles that had a huge skill overlap with IB.

canadian banks hardly ever hire anyone from MIM or Msc programs (I can only remember 1 from my time in banking and he did his Msc at LSE) so I am not sure that's a good solution.

 

Thanks for the response. Do you mind elaborating on the positions that I should be looking at in order to make a lateral move to IB analyst down the road? I'm aware of Big 4 TAS, but isn't it basically just as hard to land one of those positions out of undergrad as it is an IB analyst position?

Also, I could stay with the company I'm at and likely get great experience as a financial/data analyst for a couple years, but it's small, so I'm not sure how that would affect my chances for a move to IB (or even to get into a good MBA and then IB).

 

You want to find something where you develop similar skills (valuation, modelling, presentation, etc) as you would in banking. Big 4 TAS pays much less than banking (and while not as bad as banking, it's not a 9-5 jobs) so definitely not as hard to get. Corporate development / M&A positions at corporates also a good bet. None of these will guarantee you'll get an IB job, but it would get you closer to your goal.

 

In potentially going the Big 4 TAS route which designation would be the best to pursue (both to help get the Big 4 TAS job, and transistion to IB down the road) CPA, CBV, or CFA? Also I know a lot of people have a combination of those, so which would be the best to purse first (if I planned on doing more than one eventually)?

 

My roomate finished hba1 last year and got a job at UBS with an 83%. He also got a fair amount of interviews at other banks. Some people aren't aware that the Ivey average is belled to 78 but yeah, I've heard that top 20% with good ecs will get you the interviews...

 

Thanks for the reply, no I do not attend Waterloo. I'd like to remain anon so I won't comment further but what I will say is the only thing the school has going for it is it's business/accounting program but it's still not at that Rotman/Schulich/Ivey level. There are a few alum working at banks/companies.

 

Thanks for the reply. Can I ask why I am a better fit for S&T? I don't really have an interest in trading besides maybe a slight interest in Algo-Trading, I've heard more about CS/Math students working as analysts because of their quantitative skills.

 

Thanks for the reply. I've always been interested in the capital markets/banking and always had thoughts in the back of my head about B-School even during high school. I love programming, CS and math but I never really feel like I fit in the 'silicon valley/hackathon/CS' culture if you know what I mean, the only reason I majored in it is because if I had to go to B-School in the end then CS/Math + B-school looks more diverse and teaches me more than Finance + B-School. I am just more drawn into the markets, bay street (Toronto) and the culture of banking. Hope that answers the question.

 

I am currently going through the transfer process and I can't say that it has been 'terrible'. Yes, it's tougher than having AEO status (obviously), but if you work hard and really apply yourself to some extracurriculars you'll be fine. People with marks much lower than you get in, trust me. In terms of advantages, since I've been accepted I've already had the chance to speak personally with multiple analysts (Ivey Alumni) at larger IBs about their recruiting experience -- I don't even start at Ivey for another month. If your goal is IB, this is one of the most direct paths available in Canada.

 

Unless you go to Ivey, breaking into banking (or any decent career) in Canada is going to be the biggest motherfucking most painful-est bitch of life. Trust me.

I have zero internships and just got rejected from Ivey today and I'm in my 4th year and I have yet to figure out what the hell I'm doing with my life for the 14/15 school year.

Lucky you, you still have time to figure your shit out. Go to Ivey.

 

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