I understand FDD. However, I don't understand other services like "Capital Finance" offered under umbrella of TAS by big 4. Why do we need them when we already have IBs?
Also, is FDD experience attractive to IBs if one wants to transition to IB or PE eventually?
Thanks!
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Also interested in this. For a lot of ppl, Big 4 is a reasonable target, while IBD may not be.
So be very carefull with Big 4 and their naming. Something at EY may be called TAS and just do due diligence, while TAS at another big 4 may be a lead advisory team.
All big 4's have lead advisory M&A and debt advisory teams, which are bigger in Europe than in the USA. Some TS/TAS teams are just FDD teams, but the corporate finance teams do exactly what IBD's do, expect for IPO's and underwriting.
"Why do we need them when we already have IBs?"
Because not every company is willing to pay the fees that an investment bank requires. My employer occasionally uses a local "no-name" boutique as a buy-side advisor. The head MD there is a former BB MD and has just as much knowledge about our industry, but charges significantly less than a top MM or BB would.
This. I have friends who work in Big 4 and big-name locals that firms utilizes due to flexibility and fees.
Yeah, I just want to know the difference between non FDD TAS services and IB.
There is no difference in the work that you do other than the size of your clients, the complexity of the transactions, and usually the type of transactions that you are involved in. Exit opps will be better than at "no-name" boutiques, but still less so than at a top MM, BB, or EB. On exception to this that I can think of might be Deloitte TAS because they acquired McColl Partners, which at the time was a fairly well-known MM, several years ago.
Preftigee
From what I have heard from a friend who did a rotation in FDD was that he was expecting less of a "client service" role by moving into something more related to IBD. I have no experience in either, but his words to me were: You may like the work much more in FDD than some other Big 4 role, but at the end of the day you're still just doing the work and don't feel like you have much stake in the game. I am assuming it would be different in IBD.
Just to be clear, Transaction Advisory Services/Transaction Services is completely different than corporate finance within the Big 4 and what they do is also fundamentally different.
corporate finance within the Big 4 is a legitimate middle-market investment banking firm. They are separate FINRA/SIPC organizations, bankers have their series exams, and they perform the same work that other middle market investment banks do (mainly sellside and buyside M&A) on a contingent fee basis (this is a very important distinction). I would not say they are bottom feeders for fees either as, from what I understand, places like Deloitte/PwC/E&Y target 1m+ fees which is fairly in line with other MM's like HL, Raymond James, etc (and probably at bit less than HW, Blair).
Transaction Services is not investment banking but they do work on deals. Their work is paid for on an hourly basis and total fees are probably more in the 300K-800K range depending on the services provided (again not paid on a contingent basis). Unlike the corporate finance groups, TS at the big 4 is more focused on large corporate and PE clients (especially PE's like TPG, Bain, KKR, etc as they do a lot of deals and are generally extremely thorough in their diligence). Sellside FDD is focused on presenting carve-out financials for corporate divestitures, QoE work, FDD reports (more popular in Europe), etc. They are NOT reaching out to the buyers, writing CIMs, etc.
Buyside FDD is again focused on reviewing the financials in the dataroom, performing their own QoE and weeding through financial reports to make sure nothing is left uncovered within diligence. Buyside FDD work is generally contracted after the first round when buyers are given access to the dataroom. By this time an investment bank has already advised the client on what to submit for a first round IOI and will continue to work with the FDD group's findings to frame the final valuation.
There are also other groups within TS such as valuation, however this is less focused on valuing the company as a whole for bid submission and more focused on doing valuation for the purchase price allocation (valuing fixed assets, etc.).
Hopefully that clears up some confusion. Personally I think TS FDD is a great place to be in order to shift into banking. You gain a very strong understanding of how financial statements work and actually work on deals (just not in a direct IBD role). My group has hired a few with strong results for example.
Thank you so much! So what TAS groups basically do is FDD and valuation and the IBs or their CF groups execute those deals, right? Again, thanks
Correct
corporate finance: Create marketing materials (CIM, teaser, MP, etc), contact buyers, advise client on valuation, construct forecast model alongside management, negotiate SPA, etc.
Transaction Services FDD: Carve-out/stand alone historical financials, working capital normalization, debt-like items identification, quality of earnings, etc.
Jesus, cannot believe it took so long for someone to get this right, given this topic has been discussed over and over on this board. +1.
Well said, thank you! +1 SB
Big 4 TAS or IB internship (Originally Posted: 11/30/2013)
Hello guys. There is a possibity for a somewhat interesting situation. I recently interviewed at big 4 TAS for full time role. I think it went well and I expect maybe to get offer from them. However, I recently spoke to an MD at a BB bank. He said the bank takes 99% of full time hires from it's intern pool. And, unless you are continuing education, you cannot be considered for intern role. However, he said if I decided to do a master of finance or something for a 1 year program, I could possibly do a summer analyst internship before hand. In your guys opinion, would that possibility be better then big 4 full time? Please any advice
Is he just telling you this information in general or actually going help you get in for SA?
What group within TAS are you interviewing with? If IB is your endgame, I would really only consider the Big 4 route if you are going into the valuations or business modelling groups and don't mind working there for a few years before trying to transfer to IB. Even then it is a fairly hard slog to transfer into a decent IB gig from what I have heard, and you will most probably be geared towards MM or boutique banks, not so much the BB echelon.
Also depends on how sure your SA stint is if you commit to the MFin, because based on your post there are a lot of unknowns in your current situation which make it difficult to give you advice.
Right.. I'm not sure yet. Should I tell the MD if I get offer from Big 4 , and if the SA thing is legit ( try to speed process up) ?
How would I go about it?
Why not just be honest? Say it's a big 4 corp fin gig... Not that much different then banking. Then say that I really want banking though?
Take the Big 4 job and think about IB in future. Start preparing for a lateral (yes it is possible) and right now just celebrate that you have a full-time offer.
Or you could even do this. Just interview with the MD's bank and see if you could get in his bank as a summer analyst. If you get in, pursue MFin. If not, you already have a FT offer. On the other hand, can you make it to MFin this late and is it worth the money??
Thanks . The thing is I dont want to take the big 4 job (possible big 4 job) before I let the options play out in IB. I come from a non target basically, so I was thinking maybe it would be good to get a better Mfin degree anyway? Thoughts?
If you want to get in IB through SA, you should keep in mind that you just need MFin as a formality as you would have FT IB offer when you start your MFin. Don't expect that your MFin would land you up with something in IB. Getting in IB from a non-target is all about networking. Makes sense?
You need to first make sure that there is an offer on the table.
You don't have the Big 4 FT offer yet, but honestly, keep interviewing until you do have offers.
PS - Big 4 TAS --> IBD is very much possible.
Is big 4 FT better than IB SA?
For what? Best option is IB SA -> FT offer if you want banking.
Hi guys. Called HR lady today... She gave me a rundown on the situation and said she would forward my resume to the IB team to see if there is any interest for the summer analyst thing.. So how should I go from here?
Wells Fargo IBD vs Big 4 TAS/TS (Originally Posted: 02/27/2014)
Sophomore at a west coast non target. Both internships are in San Fran. Also URM. I know these aren't glamorous sophomore internships, but it's what I have in front of me. Which one do you think I can leverage better for IBD at a BB in NYC?
Seriously? Wells Fargo IBD vs Big 4?
I hope you're not seriously considering choosing the Big 4 over WF...
You're an idiot OP. Must be a troll to ask such a blatantly cretinous question.
Think there's some misinformation out there about WF, which makes sense given they don't seem to have developed much brand equity at this point. But here's the deal: WF is knocking on the door of many of the historically BB banks. It is within striking distance of overtaking Barclays/DB/CS/MS in terms of fees (US) and has actually done a pretty good job of stealing business. We see it on a daily basis: they are continuing to be strong in the debt markets and winning more and more equity and m&a busines.
Jamie Dimon even said a couple days ago that he views Wells as a legitimate threat to their market share. True, they're a little bit folksy, but wouldn't count these guys out...strong leadership, a bunch of ex-GS and boutique M&A guys.
WF IBD. That's a very, very good sophomore internship... especially for a non-target.
Assuming the OP isn't trolling, congrats on both offers - go with Wells Fargo IB.
Summer Internship: E&Y TAS vs Boutique IB (Originally Posted: 03/25/2015)
Hey monkey,
I got 2 offers from E&Y TAS and a boutique IB for this summer. Both of them are in Asia. I eventually want to do IB full-time in the States. E&Y has the brand name, but the work will be less related. No recruiter in the US will know the boutique bank, however. What should I take?
I think E&Y TAS is a solid option and will be a strong name on your resume, particularly if you are in the Valuations & Business Modelling group. The boutique bank is probably your best choice though considering that it is more in line with IB. At this point, I would look into the work and type of work you would be doing. Go to the option that gives more deal flow/modeling/IB experience. Also think about the potential network for both companies--it is a plus if the boutique has strong connections to the banks you want to get into in the States. Congrats on the offers!
Senior Student Ask for Advice ( IB or Big 4 TAS) (Originally Posted: 04/17/2017)
Hi Monkeys,
I am currently a senior at a target / semi target school ( think Michigan / Georgetown / UVA), GPA 3.5+ and I am an international student. I recruited for IBD summer twice ( for both HK and NY). Got in 5~6 sds each year, but all failed. I took a deep reflection and I think it is because of my poor eye contact ( my eye contact becomes weird when answering behavioral questions, since I am trying to recall the situation) and my voice does not sound sufficiently confident.
Now, I delay a semester to graduate. I am thinking of doing a master degree in either US or UK. For US, I will probably do the master of accounting, with a valuation track ( Vandy, WFU or ND) and recruit for Big 4 TAS. For UK, I will apply for LBS / LSE / Oxford, and probably recruit again for London / HK IBD. Which one is better? UK or US? My goal is to do IBD.
Cheers.
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