Superiors

Thoughts?

get over yourself

life yo

It's the way of the industry and even life as well.

I just come in with the mentality that I'll have to eat shit before I eat caviar.

remembering moments like these will make you a better boss down the road. or you can fuck that and also be a dick.

Ipso facto:

remembering moments like these will make you a better boss down the road. or you can fuck that and also be a dick.

I agree, I think I would make a pretty solid manager (if I wanted to be), just because I'm blessed with the evergrowing understanding of what shouldn't be done.

When I send my boss research (that he sends off to a client), he deletes my signature and adds his own.

That's fine, it's what you're paid so well for. Also, your direct manager knows what you did and he is likely in charge of your promotions/bonus.

Going Concern:

Ipso facto:

remembering moments like these will make you a better boss down the road. or you can fuck that and also be a dick.

I agree, I think I would make a pretty solid manager (if I wanted to be), just because I'm blessed with the evergrowing understanding of what shouldn't be done.

Crazy how the perspective changes if/when you actually do climb the ladder.

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.
Some sort of appreciation shown would be nice though.

JYFresh:

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.

I see your Robert Greene, and raise you a Dale Carnegie.

Law 1: Do not be a slimeball.

APAE:

Going Concern:

JYFresh:

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.

I see your Robert Greene, and raise you a Dale Carnegie.

Law 1: Do not be a slimeball.

+1 for you, sir.

Leadership: getting all of the blame and none of the credit.

Most managers recognize this, and in the habit of selfish human nature, seek to counteract it by grasping for whatever glory they can get. If it's something as petty as removing a subordinates signature, so be it. If it's something as large as taking credit for a month-long research assignment they pawned off on you, saw that you crushed, and now they want to present it to their own boss, that's just how the game goes.

Keep these experiences in mind for the time when you yourself reach a position higher in the hierarchy. Everyone starts at the bottom; you'd be surprised, however, how quickly you forget what it's like once you're in your shiny new office with a new title and responsibilities. The best managers know that the easiest way to engender true loyalty and dedication is showering credit on worthy people. If you give someone a task to run with, they execute well on it, and you bring that to light some point when it matters, they will go the extra mile for you because they know you have their back. In the end, it's really just Machiavellian. By acting in other's best interest, you're really acting in your own best interest simply for the fact that you know they'll work harder, more enthusiastically, and more willingly for you ever after.

Long story short, be humane. Demonstrate some emotional intelligence, and always remember what it was like to be in the other person's shoes (or if you haven't been there, imagine yourself there and think how you can best be of help to them). It'll get you miles further than competing and glory-hogging will.

APAE:

The best managers know that the easiest way to engender true loyalty and dedication is showering credit on worthy people. If you give someone a task to run with, they execute well on it, and you bring that to light some point when it matters, they will go the extra mile for you because they know you have their back. In the end, it's really just Machiavellian. By acting in other's best interest, you're really acting in your own best interest simply for the fact that you know they'll work harder, more enthusiastically, and more willingly for you ever after.

Exactly right...100x this.

APAE:

Everyone starts at the bottom; you'd be surprised, however, how quickly you forget what it's like once you're in your shiny new office with a new title and responsibilities.

I won't deny there is a human nature element to all this, but ultimately I'd like to think that empathy is 'politically advantageous'...I don't know if one would call it emotional intelligence or management strategy or what have you, but it ultimately all comes down to the ironic point that always acting in direct self interest is ironically not in your overall best interest.

SirTradesaLot:

APAE:

Going Concern:

JYFresh:

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.

I see your Robert Greene, and raise you a Dale Carnegie.

Law 1: Do not be a slimeball.

+1 for you, sir.

Leadership: getting all of the blame and none of the credit.

Most managers recognize this, and in the habit of selfish human nature, seek to counteract it by grasping for whatever glory they can get. If it's something as petty as removing a subordinates signature, so be it. If it's something as large as taking credit for a month-long research assignment they pawned off on you, saw that you crushed, and now they want to present it to their own boss, that's just how the game goes.

Keep these experiences in mind for the time when you yourself reach a position higher in the hierarchy. Everyone starts at the bottom; you'd be surprised, however, how quickly you forget what it's like once you're in your shiny new office with a new title and responsibilities. The best managers know that the easiest way to engender true loyalty and dedication is showering credit on worthy people. If you give someone a task to run with, they execute well on it, and you bring that to light some point when it matters, they will go the extra mile for you because they know you have their back. In the end, it's really just Machiavellian. By acting in other's best interest, you're really acting in your own best interest simply for the fact that you know they'll work harder, more enthusiastically, and more willingly for you ever after.

Long story short, be humane. Demonstrate some emotional intelligence, and always remember what it was like to be in the other person's shoes (or if you haven't been there, imagine yourself there and think how you can best be of help to them). It'll get you miles further than competing and glory-hogging will.

Agreed. Well said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Machiavelli's "The Prince", he states that it is better to be feared than to be loved.

Also, in finance if you give people an inch they'll take a mile. If you're nice to one person, they're bound to take advantage of you - case in point: Associate is nice to analyst/always helps them out, analyst ends up not thinking for themselves, can't independently figure out problems, and always bothers associate - everyone suffers.

Tough love is prevalent in finance not because it's right, but because only the tough make the most money. You don't get to where Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein are by being nice, you get there by forging beneficial relationships based on false smiles and corporate guile.

At the end of the day, we'll all bitch and moan about how our bosses suck, but the truth of the matter is this: they control your bonus, your lives, and can f*ck you over in an instant - it's in your best interest to shut up and take it, because if and when you get up to that level, you'll see that they don't win deals by being nice, but rather by fighting tooth and nail and using everything in their power to make money for the firm.

DaisukiDaYo:

SirTradesaLot:

APAE:

Going Concern:

JYFresh:

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.

I see your Robert Greene, and raise you a Dale Carnegie.

Law 1: Do not be a slimeball.

+1 for you, sir.

Leadership: getting all of the blame and none of the credit.

Most managers recognize this, and in the habit of selfish human nature, seek to counteract it by grasping for whatever glory they can get. If it's something as petty as removing a subordinates signature, so be it. If it's something as large as taking credit for a month-long research assignment they pawned off on you, saw that you crushed, and now they want to present it to their own boss, that's just how the game goes.

Keep these experiences in mind for the time when you yourself reach a position higher in the hierarchy. Everyone starts at the bottom; you'd be surprised, however, how quickly you forget what it's like once you're in your shiny new office with a new title and responsibilities. The best managers know that the easiest way to engender true loyalty and dedication is showering credit on worthy people. If you give someone a task to run with, they execute well on it, and you bring that to light some point when it matters, they will go the extra mile for you because they know you have their back. In the end, it's really just Machiavellian. By acting in other's best interest, you're really acting in your own best interest simply for the fact that you know they'll work harder, more enthusiastically, and more willingly for you ever after.

Long story short, be humane. Demonstrate some emotional intelligence, and always remember what it was like to be in the other person's shoes (or if you haven't been there, imagine yourself there and think how you can best be of help to them). It'll get you miles further than competing and glory-hogging will.

Agreed. Well said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Machiavelli's "The Prince", he states that it is better to be feared than to be loved.

Also, in finance if you give people an inch they'll take a mile. If you're nice to one person, they're bound to take advantage of you - case in point: Associate is nice to analyst/always helps them out, analyst ends up not thinking for themselves, can't independently figure out problems, and always bothers associate - everyone suffers.

Tough love is prevalent in finance not because it's right, but because only the tough make the most money. You don't get to where Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein are by being nice, you get there by forging beneficial relationships and corporate guile.

SirTradesaLot:

DaisukiDaYo:

SirTradesaLot:

APAE:

Going Concern:

JYFresh:

LAW 7: Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit.

I see your Robert Greene, and raise you a Dale Carnegie.

Law 1: Do not be a slimeball.

+1 for you, sir.

Leadership: getting all of the blame and none of the credit.

Most managers recognize this, and in the habit of selfish human nature, seek to counteract it by grasping for whatever glory they can get. If it's something as petty as removing a subordinates signature, so be it. If it's something as large as taking credit for a month-long research assignment they pawned off on you, saw that you crushed, and now they want to present it to their own boss, that's just how the game goes.

Keep these experiences in mind for the time when you yourself reach a position higher in the hierarchy. Everyone starts at the bottom; you'd be surprised, however, how quickly you forget what it's like once you're in your shiny new office with a new title and responsibilities. The best managers know that the easiest way to engender true loyalty and dedication is showering credit on worthy people. If you give someone a task to run with, they execute well on it, and you bring that to light some point when it matters, they will go the extra mile for you because they know you have their back. In the end, it's really just Machiavellian. By acting in other's best interest, you're really acting in your own best interest simply for the fact that you know they'll work harder, more enthusiastically, and more willingly for you ever after.

Long story short, be humane. Demonstrate some emotional intelligence, and always remember what it was like to be in the other person's shoes (or if you haven't been there, imagine yourself there and think how you can best be of help to them). It'll get you miles further than competing and glory-hogging will.

Agreed. Well said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Machiavelli's "The Prince", he states that it is better to be feared than to be loved.

Also, in finance if you give people an inch they'll take a mile. If you're nice to one person, they're bound to take advantage of you - case in point: Associate is nice to analyst/always helps them out, analyst ends up not thinking for themselves, can't independently figure out problems, and always bothers associate - everyone suffers.

Tough love is prevalent in finance not because it's right, but because only the tough make the most money. You don't get to where Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein are by being nice, you get there by forging beneficial relationships and corporate guile.

I think that what APAE is referring to is making sure credit is given where credit is due. In your example, the Associate is doing the work of the Analyst, so if he took credit for the work it would just be true. A better manager would set expectations, let the guy do his job, help when stumbling blocks are encountered, give feedback (positive or negative) during and after the project, and then give credit to the employee for a good job. The reality is that the manager looks better when he does this, so it is selfish in a strange way. He looks better because the people above the manager think that the manager can take on more managerial responsibilities and less of the completion of tasks by himself. Not as many people recognize this as they should.

Yes but that way is a lot more difficult on the Associate than just simply taking all the credit. Also, in the eyes of a client/senior, they'd rather have people higher up give the project their stamp of approval, rather than credit an analyst with all the work - analysts may or may not be prone to mistakes, but generally management/senior bankers are thought of as more reliable/smarter/perfect, even though this is incredibly far from the truth.

For the record, I completely agree w/ APAE and Going Concern - it's just the way people are in finance - you can't change it, only hope to not be like them when you're older (which will probably not happen since you've been so traumatized right out of uni).

SirTradesaLot:

The reality is that the manager looks better when he does this, so it is selfish in a strange way. He looks better because the people above the manager think that the manager can take on more managerial responsibilities and less of the completion of tasks by himself. Not as many people recognize this as they should.

This is assuming though that the manager actually wants more managerial responsibilities or wants to be a manager at all or that there is even more managerial responsibility to be had. But if these assumptions aren't true and/or if they are insecure in their role, and given there's only so much bonus money to go around even on their level, they may be even less likely to see it this way. I agree with the conclusion that it is selfish in a strange way, but more because of the employee under the manager staying motivated, as that is almost always applicable.

SirTradesaLot:

Just to clarify, I wouldn't give credit to an Analyst to a client. The client would think the recommendations were a joke if they thought they were conjured up by a 23 year old kid. I mean credit/recognition for promotion/comp/whatever internally.

I imagine everyone would agree with this pretty much. I think the question is purely one of how things should be handled internally.

Boss taking credit is one thing, but it's far worse when you do something (as part of a team) and your colleague (an equal) is given credit and recognition because he just happens to tickle the boss' balls right.

I have seen this happen a few times. This sort of thing kills morale so fast, you have to see it to believe it. I'll take my boss taking credit over THIS anyday.

Whompwhoopyeah:

When I send my boss research (that he sends off to a client), he deletes my signature and adds his own.

That's fine, it's what you're paid so well for. Also, your direct manager knows what you did and he is likely in charge of your promotions/bonus.

Try putting you and your boss in the signature and see if they still cross you out. Even in spreadsheets if my initials were the only ones my boss would add them but never just outright get rid of mine.

Going Concern:

Don't you just love when you put a lot of work into something, and your superiors act like they were the brains and brawn behind the whole operation while you just idiotically pushed buttons? It never ceases to amaze me how every time I just love it more.

God I love this industry. God I love working for other people. JUST SO MUCH LOVE.

In my experience you usually get a little credit like "welp this model that so-and-so prepared..." and the gratification comes from knowing that they don't even know how to print out the pitchbook or connect the PC to the projector... IE someday you will know how to do their job, and they will never know how to do yours.

Have to admit my boss is a pretty legit guy, may talk over me in meetings and "run" meetings when i did the majority of the work but he is always first to include me and forwards my work to make it clear i did it. While I don't make nearly what he does the fact of the matter is there is still that layer between us in regards to responsibility, if something is messed up it really falls on his shoulders. I feel very lucky to have had some really smart, nice bosses in my short career, i've heard some horror stories.

my boss would actually have to do work.... for this to happen

This is what I really like about the bank that I'm interning st this summer. I know I'm just a peon, but I still feel like people give me atleast some modicum of appreciation.

cheese86:

Going Concern:

Ipso facto:

remembering moments like these will make you a better boss down the road. or you can fuck that and also be a dick.

I agree, I think I would make a pretty solid manager (if I wanted to be), just because I'm blessed with the evergrowing understanding of what shouldn't be done.

Crazy how the perspective changes if/when you actually do climb the ladder.

I would think that a manager whose team is able to produce would be given a lot of credit for hiring and managing a very good team, since that is basically their job (along with managing external relationships). I don't think anyone is under the impression that a manager is doing much of the analysis and Excel/PPT work themselves, although I guess that depends on the industry and job function.

Curious to know how your perspective changes when you climb the ladder, though.

Chain of command bro. Be a good soldier and you'll get yours.

Houston_OG:

Chain of command bro. Be a good soldier and you'll get yours.

Houston_OG:

Chain of command bro. Be a good soldier and you'll get yours.

Disagree with this statement.

people who matter recognize what's real. if your boss is completely worthless without you and all of a sudden starts churning out incredible work, everyone will know what's going on

whatwhatwhat:

people who matter recognize what's real. if your boss is completely worthless without you and all of a sudden starts churning out incredible work, everyone will know what's going on

Maybe if they put effort to recognize it...or maybe not. The lines of truth in an office are blurry, and perceptions are malleable, particularly by those who are skilled in the crafts of manipulation, persuasion, and salesmanship, especially given that the 'people who matter' are often much more senior and largely disconnected from day-to-day affairs. Your point would definitely be true in an ideal world, but we don't live in that world.

SirTradesaLot:

Houston_OG:

Chain of command bro. Be a good soldier and you'll get yours.

Disagree with this statement.

Mind elaborating? I agree, but wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning. Thanks.

Simple As...:

SirTradesaLot:

Houston_OG:

Chain of command bro. Be a good soldier and you'll get yours.

Disagree with this statement.

Mind elaborating? I agree, but wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning. Thanks.