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Take the IlliniProgrammer Pledge! Help improve the quality of posts on WSO!
 

IlliniProgrammer's picture
ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 3:19pm

It's 10 PM. Someone writes a post about how insider trading should be legal, how people say stupid things about the CFAs, or how Harvard is going to take over the world. It really irritates you, and you want to respond.

What do you do?

1.) Respond with a snarky comment.
2.) Close your web browser and bang your head against the wall.
3.) Resist the temptation and find a smart thread to post in, instead.

All too often, my response has been (1)- to post some snarky response that starts a huge debate. However, when you think about it, that sends the wrong signal, especially for front-page content.

You may not know this, but front page bloggers are paid partly by how many responses they get. That's a pretty reasonable policy, but the net effect is to encourage WSO bloggers to write more obnoxious posts to attract the most responses, rather than ask tough questions or post stuff that makes us think.

We need to raise the level of discourse on WSO. From now until Christmas, I pledge to, instead of taking option (1), to take option (3). Every time I see something on the front page that leaves me feeling irritated, that I feel is ridiculous, that I feel lowers the level of discourse on WSO, instead of responding to THAT thread, I'll find an interesting thread to respond to.

Last week, Deepak Malhotra, HBS Professor (and Big Ten Northwestern alumn), posted a brilliant video about negotiating offers. I spent over an hour watching that video- it was worth every moment. Yet instead of responding to that thread, and encouraging more of them, I responded to "Sh** people say to CFA candidates".

If you think about it, what really helps us grow as individuals is more videos from guys like Deepak Malhotra, more nuanced questions and discussions- rather than people who ask visceral questions. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to respond to higher quality posts.

So, will you join me?

This Christmas, let's give ourselves the gift of better discourse on WSO. Take the pledge- every time you see a thread asking a ridiculous question on WSO, resist posting in it, and respond to a smart thread instead.

Work hard, play hard.
FinancialNoviceII's picture

Count me in. I've been on

CS
(Neanderthal, 2,489
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 3:26pm

Count me in. I've been on this trail for a while. Way too much junk on here and too many idiots post on topics they have no knowledge over, just take a look at any political thread.

IlliniProgrammer's picture

Let's be clear- the problem

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:24pm

Let's be clear- the problem is not WSO- there way too much junk on the web in general. There is also a lot of good content on here that goes overlooked, and I'm probably as good a person as any to blame for that.

On some level, this is the de-facto site for young people in finance. And the decisions we make about what to read influences the content here. And it's a high quality site.

We're all market participants here on WSO, and what we really need is content that keeps our minds plastic- that discourages negative resistance and encourages critical thinking. Part of that means our responsibility as readers to reverse-engineer some of the journalism tricks and encourage better insight.

I say let's start with WSO because there's so much opportunity here. We're a small enough group that we can decide collectively as readers to support higher-quality content here, and because the marginal value of that content is so much higher here than it would be elsewhere. Hopefully that's going to attract more smart people and could eventually start a trend on the other finance sites (EG: businessinsider, maybe dealbreaker?)

Look, this post is going to encourage its own negative resistance. Who is a guy who drives a rusty honda and brags about thriftiness to suggest how people respond to posts? But at the end of the day, the most constructive response isn't to post a snarky remark- it's not to close your browser, either. It's to find a better post, post in that, say thank you, and help carve out an even bigger place for higher-level posts.

Work hard, play hard.

accountingbyday's picture

I try to follow this pledge

CF
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:08pm

I try to follow this pledge (although I'm not always successful).

However, I'm calling bait and switch here. How in the world did this post not have anything to do about saving money?

BTbanker's picture

For those looking for the

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:13pm

For those looking for the best posts on this site, look here:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/highest-ranked-disc...

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/most_commented

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

WallStreetOasis.com's picture

IlliniProgrammer: ... You may

EN
(Human, 12,188
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:31pm
IlliniProgrammer:

...
You may not know this, but front page bloggers are paid partly by how many responses they get. That's a pretty reasonable policy, but the net effect is to encourage WSO bloggers to write more obnoxious posts to attract the most responses, rather than ask tough questions or post stuff that makes us think.

We need to raise the level of discourse on WSO. From now until Christmas, I pledge to, instead of taking option (1), to take option (3). Every time I see something on the front page that leaves me feeling irritated, that I feel is ridiculous, that I feel lowers the level of discourse on WSO, instead of responding to THAT thread, I'll find an interesting thread to respond to.
...
So, will you join me?

First off, thank you for this Illini. A quick correction, about 95% of the front page bloggers write for free...only a small fraction of the bloggers that have been with us for years get paid, and even then the comment bonus they get doenst move the needle that much (it is more in place if a post really generate a lot of discussion and/or goes viral).

I think this time of year we usually have a similar request (usually in the form of a complaint) from the more senior posters on here given the influx of content and new users from college.

What hasnt helped is in the past 6-9 months we have been trying to get more interesting content onto the home page...we tried to create too many home page editorial spots (expand to fast) and that led to a drop in the quality hitting the front page. That was my fault.

We have since pulled back and are putting in more controls before giving any writers privilege to the home page, but the variance in quality has still been obvious. We still try to get the best discussions (and video like you saw with Deepak) to the home page as fast as possible, but it also takes a lot of work to constantly 1) monitor discussions, 2) moderate the forums 3) interview new writers 4) manage campus reps 5) manage web devel initiatives 6) manage events & planning WSO conference and 7) countless other things....luckily we have a community that is so supportive that allows us to do what we do or we'd be screwed.

There are a ton of interns that are helping us out not only on the blogging side but on the SEO side and making sure our best content gets out there...spreading the word across campuses, etc.

All I'd ask is for some patience as we continue to improve the lineup of bloggers that are getting home page slots.

I join you in your pledge to try and get the better content to the top of the page faster and to remove the more mediocre content off the front page faster.

Thanks,
Patrick

ps - If you are sick of the home page, we always have the highest ranked content from the past week, month, year and all time right here:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/highest-ranked-disc...

WSO Conference 2013

Private Certified User Chat

808's picture

The problem is half the time

CF
(Gorilla, 713
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:32pm

The problem is half the time I'm on WSO because I'm brain dead and don't want to think about anything. Having said that, I'm not going to waste my time commenting on stupid posts either, although I personally like some of the "legalize insider trading" posts - if people respond intelligently instead of being snarky, some of those can become interesting discussions.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/big-4-accounting
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/entrepreneur
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/wso-pittsburgh

CompBanker's picture

This is great

PE
(Almost Human, 8,726
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 4:37pm

This is great IlliniProgrammer. I feel like I've been fighting this battle for six years!

CompBanker

TheKing's picture

I've been doing front page

O
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 5:06pm

I've been doing front page stuff for the last six months or so.

Generally, I try to avoid posting mindless things or "controversial" things to get views and comments. I try, for the most part, to keep the content of my posts fairly serious to keep the level of discourse high. It's also a bit more enjoyable to write something thoughtful than to throw a bunch of crap against a wall and see what sticks.

I would ask, if there are things that don't get enough coverage on the front page, let me know. I won't write about everything, but it's always helpful to have a list of new topics to cover. Some weeks, there just isn't that much noteworthy news to cover, so if there's anything you guys want to hear more about, let me know and I can create content centered around it for the front page.

Check out my WSO Blog

AndyLouis's picture

IlliniProgrammer: You may not

(Almost Human, 6,090
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 5:21pm
IlliniProgrammer:

You may not know this, but front page bloggers are paid partly by how many responses they get. That's a pretty reasonable policy, but the net effect is to encourage WSO bloggers to write more obnoxious posts to attract the most responses, rather than ask tough questions or post stuff that makes us think.

Just so there's no misinformation going around, the above isn't true, all but two writers are volunteer "contributing authors" and have no incentive for writing posts that get more comments. I discuss this with every potential writer on the phone - getting comments is great, but above all the quality of the content is the most important thing, and for them to not worry how many comments a post of theirs gets, because often times the best posts don't get many at all (such as the Deepak interview (5 comments))

So to continue, thanks IP for the post, agree with a lot of what you said and will also take the pledge to continually strive to improve the quality of homepage content, it's part of my job :)

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | Connect with me on Linkedin.

2013 WSO Conference

AndyLouis's picture

you'll love this one IP:

(Almost Human, 6,090
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 6:11pm

you'll love this one IP: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/monte-carlo-si... (going live at 11am tomorrow)

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | Connect with me on Linkedin.

2013 WSO Conference

In reply to TheKing
BTbanker's picture

TheKing: It's also a bit more

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 6:19pm
TheKing:

It's also a bit more enjoyable to write something thoughtful than to throw a bunch of crap against a wall and see what sticks.

Speaking of throwing crap at a wall and sticking... This one deserves to go down in the record books.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/48%C3%B7293

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

In reply to TheKing
SirTradesaLot's picture

TheKing: I've been doing

 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 6:25pm
TheKing:

I've been doing front page stuff for the last six months or so.

Generally, I try to avoid posting mindless things or "controversial" things to get views and comments. I try, for the most part, to keep the content of my posts fairly serious to keep the level of discourse high. It's also a bit more enjoyable to write something thoughtful than to throw a bunch of crap against a wall and see what sticks.

I would ask, if there are things that don't get enough coverage on the front page, let me know. I won't write about everything, but it's always helpful to have a list of new topics to cover. Some weeks, there just isn't that much noteworthy news to cover, so if there's anything you guys want to hear more about, let me know and I can create content centered around it for the front page.

I like topics that prevent people from guzzling the Kool-aid. Maybe some of these:

1. Everybody loves success stories, but you can learn a lot more from failures. How about some of those? They're much more effective when the person who fails isn't just painted as an idiot. Often times, these people were praised heavily before they were deemed failures.
2. Survivorship bias: What is it? How should that impact how I perceive certain things like the returns of a fund (or fund universe) or the average pay of an employee at a firm? How can I ensure I'm looking at a random sample of outcomes?
3. Critiques on financial theories
4. Why does the average mutual fund underperform? Might this also be true of private equity and hedge funds if we use the correct measuring sticks?
5. Why is it that sales positions are looked down upon by most members of this site and are among the highest paying professions (with one of the lowest burn-out risks) on Wall Street?
6. Anything on behavioral finance -- so many topics here that could be intersting and thought provoking

I'm a lover, not a fighter, but I'm also a fighter, so don't get any ideas.

My WSO Blog

Bearearns's picture

For the negotating topic by

(Orangutan, 280
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 6:36pm

For the negotating topic by Deepak Malhotra

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-to-negotia...

In reply to SirTradesaLot
TheKing's picture

SirTradesaLot: like topics

O
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 6:53pm
SirTradesaLot:

like topics that prevent people from guzzling the Kool-aid. Maybe some of these:

1. Everybody loves success stories, but you can learn a lot more from failures. How about some of those? They're much more effective when the person who fails isn't just painted as an idiot. Often times, these people were praised heavily before they were deemed failures.
2. Survivorship bias: What is it? How should that impact how I perceive certain things like the returns of a fund (or fund universe) or the average pay of an employee at a firm? How can I ensure I'm looking at a random sample of outcomes?
3. Critiques on financial theories
4. Why does the average mutual fund underperform? Might this also be true of private equity and hedge funds if we use the correct measuring sticks?
5. Why is it that sales positions are looked down upon by most members of this site and are among the highest paying professions (with one of the lowest burn-out risks) on Wall Street?
6. Anything on behavioral finance -- so many topics here that could be intersting and thought provoking

Appreciate the ideas. Not sure I'm the best guy to write critiques on financial theories, but I'd love to take a crack at some of the other ideas on your list.

I'd also add that I do not understand the shit that people give sales positions. If anything, they sound like the best gigs on Wall Street by far. Talking to people about ideas and schmoozing clients > spending 20 hours straight on a model any day of the week. Sales seems surprisingly tough to break into though, at least as far as I've found it.

Check out my WSO Blog

In reply to SirTradesaLot
AndyLouis's picture

SirTradesaLot: TheKing: I'v

(Almost Human, 6,090
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 8:16pm
SirTradesaLot:
TheKing:

I've been doing front page stuff for the last six months or so.

Generally, I try to avoid posting mindless things or "controversial" things to get views and comments. I try, for the most part, to keep the content of my posts fairly serious to keep the level of discourse high. It's also a bit more enjoyable to write something thoughtful than to throw a bunch of crap against a wall and see what sticks.

I would ask, if there are things that don't get enough coverage on the front page, let me know. I won't write about everything, but it's always helpful to have a list of new topics to cover. Some weeks, there just isn't that much noteworthy news to cover, so if there's anything you guys want to hear more about, let me know and I can create content centered around it for the front page.

I like topics that prevent people from guzzling the Kool-aid. Maybe some of these:

1. Everybody loves success stories, but you can learn a lot more from failures. How about some of those? They're much more effective when the person who fails isn't just painted as an idiot. Often times, these people were praised heavily before they were deemed failures.
2. Survivorship bias: What is it? How should that impact how I perceive certain things like the returns of a fund (or fund universe) or the average pay of an employee at a firm? How can I ensure I'm looking at a random sample of outcomes?
3. Critiques on financial theories
4. Why does the average mutual fund underperform? Might this also be true of private equity and hedge funds if we use the correct measuring sticks?
5. Why is it that sales positions are looked down upon by most members of this site and are among the highest paying professions (with one of the lowest burn-out risks) on Wall Street?
6. Anything on behavioral finance -- so many topics here that could be intersting and thought provoking

thanks for the input sirtrades

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | Connect with me on Linkedin.

2013 WSO Conference

In reply to TheKing
SirTradesaLot's picture

TheKing: SirTradesaLot:

 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 10:09pm

I'm a lover, not a fighter, but I'm also a fighter, so don't get any ideas.

My WSO Blog

FeelingMean's picture

I am taking the pledge.

VC
(Gorilla, 679
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 10:25pm

"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."

Going Concern's picture

I'm sure we're all wondering

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 8:46am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to Going Concern
Febreeze's picture

Going Concern: I'm sure we're

(King Kong, 1,158
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 4:14pm
Edmundo Braverman's picture

Holy shit, I am SOOOOO on

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 7:16pm

In The Flesh's picture

I used to write a few posts

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,878
 
Points)
 on 12/7/12 at 9:04am

Head of Metal Website: www.headofmetal.com

https://twitter.com/headofmetal2012

In reply to Febreeze
Going Concern's picture

Febreeze: Going

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/8/12 at 7:09pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to Going Concern
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Going

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/8/12 at 11:56pm

Work hard, play hard.

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Going Concern's picture

IlliniProgrammer: Going

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/9/12 at 1:22am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to Going Concern
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Going Concern: Hmm, well I

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/9/12 at 2:29am

Work hard, play hard.

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Edmundo Braverman's picture

IlliniProgrammer: I actually

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/9/12 at 1:13pm

Going Concern's picture

Given that super high level

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/9/12 at 5:45pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Edmundo Braverman: This

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/10/12 at 4:39pm

Work hard, play hard.

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Edmundo Braverman's picture

IlliniProgrammer: Edmundo

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/10/12 at 6:38pm

IlliniProgrammer's picture

While we may not "know" a

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/10/12 at 7:04pm

Work hard, play hard.

Going Concern's picture

If it turns out that there is

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/10/12 at 8:35pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Edmundo Braverman's picture

IlliniProgrammer: The fact is

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 1:11am

Going Concern's picture

Science can explain

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 8:52am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

IlliniProgrammer's picture

Eddie, people are free to

ST
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 9:16am

Work hard, play hard.

SirTradesaLot's picture

In typical WSO fashion, a

 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 9:11am

I'm a lover, not a fighter, but I'm also a fighter, so don't get any ideas.

My WSO Blog

Going Concern's picture

I just can't believe that

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 9:26am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

Edmundo Braverman's picture

IP, of course I agree in

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 9:31am

Edmundo Braverman's picture

You're right, this isn't the

ST
(Human, 14,692
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 9:34am

Going Concern's picture

Imagine there's no pasta It's

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 10:04am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

TNA's picture

I'll just say this, people

O
(Human, 13,698
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 11:00am

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

BTbanker's picture

Is it okay to wear my John

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 11:10am

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

TNA's picture

Lobb, yummy

O
(Human, 13,698
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 11:10am

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

Going Concern's picture

Looks like The Consumerism

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 1:20pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

TNA's picture

People also have the right to

O
(Human, 13,698
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 1:26pm

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

Going Concern's picture

Hate? Who said a single word

(King Kong, 1,858
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 2:27pm

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

TNA's picture

Haha, whatever. To each their

O
(Human, 13,698
 
Points)
 on 12/11/12 at 2:33pm

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

In The Flesh's picture

Aw man, I missed the religion

HF
(Neanderthal, 2,878
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 7:41pm

Head of Metal Website: www.headofmetal.com

https://twitter.com/headofmetal2012

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