Hedge Fund Recruitment

Hello everyone,

I'm a graduate seeking a job in London. For several reasons that don't really matter at the moment, my plan was to start as a trader at an investment bank and then move to some hedge funds after a few years, like many do. Recently, I'm also considering trying to apply to hedge funds directly. This preamble was just to say that I don't know much about how hedge fund recruitment works exactly, so my apologies if my questions sound silly or obvious.

  1. My understanding is that, unlike banks, not every hedge fund hires graduates. If this information is correct, could anyone provide a list (on a website or whatever) of hedge funds that do hire graduates?

  2. Because hedge funds are small private firms, I've seen that they don't have graduate programs where one can easily apply through their websites. What's the best way to find jobs and apply then? Should I try to reach out to headhunters directly? Should I use job boards (e.g. efinancial careers)? Is there some better way to do it?

  3. Can anyone suggest some up-to-date/complete job board? Any suggestions on how to better reach out to HHs?

Thank you very much.

 

Hey alfonso.moscato, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot and I am sad to say, but this thread is lonely, so thought I'd post in here to try and help out. Some potential topics that might help:

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adhocscreenname:
I will be starting as an analyst at a London BB this fall. I went to school in the UK, but am originally from the states. My general impression is that PE and HF recruiting is much less formal in the UK than in the US. Is this correct? Can anyone provide guidance on this, and if I do want to go to PE, how to do so? Also, if I want to go from London to a US HF or PE firm, is this feasible?

Thanks

which uni did u go ?
 
adhocscreenname:
I'd rather avoid specificity.

Can someone simply answer the question? That would be appreciated.

You would rather avoid specificity, as if knowing which one of the two will make any difference? If you really wanted to be super secret, you should have said you attended a Russell Group Uni.

As for your question, I have absolutely no idea! Or maybe I do, but I'd rather not disclose that information over the internet.

Perhaps you should ask people on thestudentroom.com

 

I don’t know for the megafunds, but here is what I know for the middle markets:

  • The City is full of recruiters, and it is most likely that things go through them. If you are at a top bank in a top group, you will receive unsolicited calls fro them. If you want to switch you can also get in touch directly with specialised ones (some are specialised in PE and/or HF recruiting).
  • The recruiting process for MM PE is less formalised than for banks. They usually hire when they have needs relating to promotions, departures or an increase in deal-flow. So there is not a particular timeline you need to follow.
  • Most funds like to recruit 2 to 3rd year analysts, so you can get in touch with recruiters after 1.5 years to get things started.

So considering you haven’t started as an analyst yet, focus on learning a lot and working on interesting deals for now. If you still want to work in PE after some time, call a few recruiters if you haven’t been called.

 

yes, it's true. PE and HF recruiting on much less formal. there's no rigid timeline like there is in the US. various shops will recruit when they feel like and you don't really "miss the boat" just because you don't have an offer by the end of your 1st year. interview structure will also vary a lot from fund to fund. a lot of intros is also through connections, not necessarily headhunters. this means you should network and talk to headhunters, and keep a regular dialogue so you're aware of any positions becoming available. generally though, recruiting is much later than in the US. you probably don't have to worry about actually interviewing until well into your second year (this is true even for some/many of the megafunds)

 

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I guess I'm asking what's the best WAY to turn this into something worthwhile. Again, I'm not trying to come out and ask the guy for a job.

A friend of mine told me to just lay low and keep contact with him for a year until he gets other investors and it gets to a point where he has to higher people... Then from there, casually throw it out there that you're willing to join.

 

Typos on a message board shouldn't get criticized! lol

I think the part i'm most concerned about is how often I should reach out to him. I'm thinking its just my own lesson to feel my way through the communication...

 
handullz:

Typos on a message board shouldn't get criticized! lol

I think the part i'm most concerned about is how often I should reach out to him. I'm thinking its just my own lesson to feel my way through the communication...

Vagabond85 gave you a lot of good advice.

Also, your English problems are not typos. Your grammar is awful; despite being an ESL, it is important for you to focus on communication skills.

This guy is obviously your best shot at a HF. He has offered you an opportunity (probably for his friend that connected you, but you're too socially-idiotic to realize this), but you're acting holier than thou.

The larger shops won't touch you with a ten-foot pole. Good luck, buddy...

 

1) If possible, find out his fund's strategy (or his former fund's) 2) Spend the next 2-3 weeks researching hedge fund basics, his specific strategy, and current events. Depending on his strategy find relevant books. For example, if he is a value guy start with Ben Graham and Buffett. 3) Send him an email and set up a lunch or meeting in his office. Be prepared to express your interest in the field by referencing the books you read, an interesting current even or investment opportunity, etc. Yhen be assertive and ask if he would be willing to hire you as an analyst for an unpaid internship with the opportunity for a FT position.

Good luck.

 

My advice based off how you have conveyed your position would be to not worry as much about finding a way to utilize your industry contact as source for breaking into a hedge fund or investment bank. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like you know what kind of fund, in terms of strategy, you even want to work for (l/s equity, event driven, convertible arbitrage, market neutral?) as well as what you want to do at hedge fund for that matter(trading/research/operations/risk/marketing). If I'm right, my best advice would be to do some "sole searching" if you will and figure out what it is you want to be doing and for what kind of fund, otherwise, you might run into some serious road blocks when you eventually land an interview.

By the way, I'm not trying to hate on you, I was the same way at one point in my life, but I eventually put the breaks on worrying about how to utilize contacts and instead focused on what it was I actually wanted to do. Long story short I ended up at a small fund 2 months out of college even though I had a standard econ degree and shit GPA from a completely non target liberal arts school. Did some of my contacts help? Yes. However, they can only get you so far until you need to sell yourself, unless of course your daddy is best friends with "so and so"- you get my point.

One last thing, I wouldn't assume all hedge funds are like "frats" and "once your in, your in". The latter couldn't be farther from the truth. If you do get an offer, but you don't perform up to expectations or you piss off the wrong person you're flat out gone. I will say though based off my experiences working for a fund thus far, there is definitely a collegiate atmosphere in terms of dialogue amongst colleagues and to some extent the MD's as well but in reality its all business and if you don't get your shit done or don't do it right, then it can turn pretty ugly. On a side note, my firm usually goes out once a week for drinks after the work day is over and its pretty chill, I want to say that's the most "frat" like aspect of working for fund that I've experienced.

 

@quixot.... (all those letter): thanks man. I've been doing some extensive research so that I can learn to talk the language, and not ask dumb questions like "how much money do you make?" or "how cool is your job"

i'm currenlty working in corporate finance, and there is a ton of downtime, so i spend my time trying to read up on different strategies on funds, how they go about doing things, etc. in hopes of finding a nich... maybe to add value, give insight, etc...

@going concern: lol. no worries. i know plenty of guys that are internet 6'4", 250 lbs black belt martial artists but cower in the presence of actual human beings when they're pasty, weak confidence-lacking personalities are pulled to the forefront of reality.

I still pull the tidbit of info out of everyone's post, regardless of how arrogant and high and mighty they try to come off as... just reeling from the high of a sarcastic, witty putdown brings arousal to these cats. lol

just b/c i address it doesnt me I'm ignoring it. but it wouldnt be right if i didnt atleast come w/ a comeback?

waits for someone to try and parallel that to working, as if i talk on here the same way i do at work ...

bro.

:)

 

The above comments have nothing to do with the exact nuances and semantics of your grammar. It is simply hard to help someone who cannot coherently express what they are trying to say, as you have failed to do. It is honestly very hard to even understand what you are saying, and if you are willing to submit yourself to the advice of this forum, then you should at least have the humility to accept some of this simple advice and not argue with people who actually work in the industry that you are trying to break into. Your attitude is indicative of your character, which IMO wouldn't be someone I'd be to keen on helping. Food for thought.

However, you should be very happy that you have made such a good connection and would be a very good idea to follow up with them. At this stage in your career (which I gather is early), you really aren't going to be adding much "value" to anything. Just focus on learning the basics and showing that you have the potential to add value someday, and are eager to learn/contribute your time to this avenue.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

^^^ no one is arguing. I said i'm taking information from it and using it.

and a forum w/ 5 posts on an internet forum in which i rarely visit reflects my character as a person?

24 years of living and my character is summed up in 5 posts. makes sense.

and the "communication" argument is getting tired. I've made it through my entire life without people saying i'm having trouble "expressing" my self... also, i've been on several forums with people with similar levels of experience, but significantly less levels of douchiness (not you, but all around), and it was never "criticized."

it was said,addressed, and yet, posts are still coming in on it. go figure.

to your second point, I'm defintely going to try and touch base atleast a few times a month. hopefully it can evolve into something more consistent.

and you're right about the value adding portion. I guess i was being starry eyed! i am just eager to show worthiness, i guess.

 

Your experience in the peace corps and a degree in physics from a top West Coast school would be a great set-up for MBA admissions. If you don't want to go the MBA route, networking with local or regional hedge funds would be your best bet.

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 

You seem to have several of the components for such a strong application that I imagine you're essentially a lock at MBA business schools">M7 programs. Get your MBA and enjoy the recruiting opportunities.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Thanks for the advice. It would appear I have my work cut out for me. Getting an MBA has been on my radar for a time now, so I appreciate having it affirmed.

tlynch5 - You mentioned the possibility of perhaps networking my way into a regional fund may be possible. I'm currently based in LA and, though I'm just starting to explore it, probably have some connections that I could use - if only for advice/mentoring if nothing else. How realistic is this, however? Pigs flying, happen to talk to the right person at the right time, and then win the lottery type luck? Or is it plausibly feasible?

 

Any connection is a great start. Especially if they're in the industry you want. And the way you described it- winning the lottery and pigs flying - is exactly how it is haha. A lot of luck is involved. But if you have connections then use them to your advantage and get some informational interviews to start out. Make sure you know your stuff though. However, all this being said, I think your best bet would still be to go the MBA route with that resume.

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 

I would highly recommend do some internet stalking and find out if there are any HFs with MP that graduated from your school. Although by sheer luck, I was introduced to a alum over the summer that happens to be a MP and co-founder of one of the fasted growing funds in the last two years. I've been able to build a great relationship with him. But he has never had any ties with my university after he graduated. You shouldn't be surprised if there are people like this from your university as well.

 

I actually think it could be possible depending on how well you can actually "talk markerts" and convince people that your personal investing experience is worth something. You have a unique background that will entice some people to want to talk if you can find a way to get anyone's attention. Have you ever produced any reports or write=ups of your trade ideas?

 

I've recently begun to write for Seeking Alpha, occasionally sharing my thoughts and trade ideas. Nothing to the caliber that would be required in a professional setting - though, as I get more comfortable with writing for them, I will improve both the quality and depth - but it is a start.

 

Here are some threads that should answer your question. Surprisingly, one of them is a very similar thread that you yourself created a week or so ago, but which still had a valuable answer and that could have easily been posted on there and gotten more responses than having a whole new thread.

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-path-to-take-to-break-into-a-hedge-… - At the bottom Murut advises you to look at his post in //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-kind-of-ibd-do-you-hedge-fund-guys-…

The reasons for why they tend to hire IBD over S&T (although only for certain strategies and by no means always) is given in this thread //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/why-is-ib-even-relevant-to-hf

 

Regarding S&T vs IB; it depends on what you want to do in the HF industry, trade or research. From what I've heard, generally banking is best way into research role at HF (model intensive and get beaten to death with work). I'm sure more experienced and knowledgeable people will have better insight than I do though.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

So it seems as though there is a mixed bag. Some people are saying S&T some people are saying IB.

As far as being a PM wouldn't following the mkts religiously, getting very familiar with economic impacts, economic data, technical analysis etc. be more relevant than IB experience?

I would think the more experience one has in trading, following the market, investing, hedge fund studying etc would all be more relevant and more valuable time spent than IB. Most IBankers have no time to trade/invest and don't have the ability to follow the market nearly as closely as I have been for some time now.

What would one have to say to these arguments?

I also began constructing a spreadsheet of HF's in my area and contact info and plan on cold-calling. I will let everybody know how this works out for me.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

@BEAST MODE BANKER: While I think those are good points, personally I think that for a value fund and doing bottom up/fundamental research, that working in IB would be more beneficial as you have stronger modeling skills and look at more nitty gritty details of each company. (for a research position anyways)

IMO, trading has less to do with actually investing than what you might think. For what I'm interested in anyways, IB would probably be more desireable. Also, to me, following the markets doesn't necessarily make you a better investor and is just ancillary to actually being one (i.e. a trait of a good/determined investor).

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

@Bondarb - I think you make a valid point. After taking a 4wk course with the IB Institute I have decided I want to break into IBanking first. I want to get into IBanking for about 5-7 years and build a solid nest egg then go to a top 5 MBA program. Then I want to go to a HF. I am confident I will be able to build a nice egg and manage if efficiently on my own until I get to a HF.

What do you guys think of this plan?

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 
BEAST MODE BANKER:

@Bondarb - I think you make a valid point. After taking a 4wk course with the IB Institute I have decided I want to break into IBanking first. I want to get into IBanking for about 5-7 years and build a solid nest egg then go to a top 5 MBA program. Then I want to go to a HF. I am confident I will be able to build a nice egg and manage if efficiently on my own until I get to a HF.

What do you guys think of this plan?

I've never heard of a successful investor who "chose to stay in banking to build out a nest egg."

We all are chomping at the bit to start managing a portfolio.

Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/_KarateBoy_
 
KarateBoy:
BEAST MODE BANKER:

@Bondarb - I think you make a valid point. After taking a 4wk course with the IB Institute I have decided I want to break into IBanking first. I want to get into IBanking for about 5-7 years and build a solid nest egg then go to a top 5 MBA program. Then I want to go to a HF. I am confident I will be able to build a nice egg and manage if efficiently on my own until I get to a HF.

What do you guys think of this plan?

I've never heard of a successful investor who "chose to stay in banking to build out a nest egg."

We all are chomping at the bit to start managing a portfolio.

I'll echo KarateBoy, although I am just in the process of moving over to the buyside myself.

Banking is only good for getting the attention of headhunters. You do 1-3 years, then leave. 5-7 years would make you a VP, basically a career banker (assuming you started as a 1st year analyst). I have never seen a banking VP move to a hedge fund. I'm somewhat skeptical headhunters would even be receptive at that point.

And I wouldn't count on having time to manage a portfolio on your own while in IB. I'm in ER and I barely have time. It takes me ~10 hours of reading / modeling to get a good grasp of a company's operations. And much, much more if you want to effectively cover the company. You will not have that kind of time in IB.

 

Getting into a "reasonably prestigious" HF out of undergrad is a pretty long-shot even from a target school. In general, the more math, statistics, and CS you have under your belt the better. I am a FT analyst at a "reasonably prestigious" macro HF, and I feel finance plays next to no role in what I do a daily basis. I think the better you are at manipulating data (programming, debugging, statistical analysis), the better, because most of the actual analysis is done by the research analysts/PMs. You will rarely do any analysis/recommendations right out of undergrad. I can't speak for what is useful for a L/S HF, but I think finance is more appropriate for those and less for macro and quant funds. But as far as I know, L/S equity funds don't really recruit out of undergrad. Almost all the HFs that hire undergrads hire for more quant-related roles.

 

Thanks for the post. I apologize if "reasonably prestigious" came off rude/oblivious; I meant to be inclusive of smaller funds/funds fewer people will have heard of, not dismissive of the long shot nature of landing one of these jobs.

 

I would suggest that you start building a record in your PA, prepare some investment idea writeups, and offer to intern alongside a small hedge fund where you can have direct interaction with the PM. Sometimes it takes planning before you can get to your goal and different things work depending on your background.

With i-banking background and the above, you should be able to find a PM willing to take a change, since there are so many of them and they are taking in more assets than they can handle.

Ideally, find someone whose assets grew recently -- you won't know that going into an interview, but it's a good sign if he discloses that because you know that at least he must have had a good track record and you will see some action.

If you are already in i-banking or sell-side research, it may be easier to transition into a prop trading desk within your i-bank. You can set up a track record there and move on to larger/better funds within a couple of years.

 

Lots of hedge funds don't require extreme quantitative skills. Fundamental, research-driven funds (value, distressed/special situation, merger-arb, GARP, to name a few) generally won't need you to do any advanced, theoretical math or programming. Other than some statistical stuff, I don't think I've done any math more complex than exponents since starting my current job.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

i dont know much, but it looks like the format of your first two lines under "junior portfoilio manager" is messed up..

[quote=rufiolove]When evaluating whether or not to post something on WSO, I think to myself, "would an idiot post this" and if the answer is yes, I do not post that thing...[/quote]
 
abcd678:
http://www.razume.com/documents/24255

Currently work in a BB bank. Been there for just over a year but really want to move into a HF as I don't feel like I'm getting the proper training or learning to develop as an analyst/PM. Obviously I've spun my CV to try to leave out all the rubbish that takes up most of my daily activity.

So far haven't had much luck so I've re-hauled my CV and come to this helpful forum looking for advice. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Please excuse some of the info that I've left out for the purposes of anonymity. I've had an interesting path into my current role which makes me rather identifiable.

Also, the first bullet point under my job description appears to have been eaten up by the razume converter so please ignore that also.

I am from the UK and there's really no website like WSO here...sigh...good idea for a startup right?

wilmott is a good forum based in UK. check it out. For the resume, I would put education first, work and then skills. Thats my preference.

 

Thanks. Wilmott is mainly for quants and also, it's super strict on the emails you can use to register an account and I am yet to successfully create an account!

I've been told that after you've been working you should put experience above education as that's what employers care more about?

How about the actual content? I don't know if what I actually stand a chance in hell of getting into a HF... What I currently do is global macro so that's the area I'm looking at. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

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