The 120-hour week
*Posting this here because it gets a variety of people and I use this forum most.
The phrase gets thrown around all the time, yet I still find it incredibly hard to believe. Having worked 80-hour weeks, I can say that working 14-hour days 6 days a week is miserable. Working 17-hour days 7 days a week (typing it makes it sound even sillier), which is what a 120-hour week would entail, is just unbelievable... literally. Especially since you can't charge the time you eat, it would literally mean sleeping 5-6 hours a day every night for seven days... on the office floor, and doing absolutely nothing else all week.
I just can't believe anyone has actually charged 120 hours, let alone regularly. I'm also influenced by the fact that the myth is a self-serving one to spread: it makes bankers sound bad-ass, and frankly, bankers are really not very bad-ass. Everyone says they do it, and now it's become common knowledge that bankers do it, but I still call BS. You can post all you want, I'm still not going to believe it.
The only way I'll believe it is if you provide evidence. I want to see a screen-shot of a submitted time-sheet with 120+ hours submitted, preferably more than once. And don't 'Shop it.. I intend to inspect it very carefully. Then you'll have proven your point. Until then, I'm not going to think you're bad-ass.
haha. buddy, take it from me, not many people are pulling 120hrs consistently. Not to say it doesnt happen...my worst week was 115, and thats happened only once.
not sure where you're getting these "time sheets" from....this isnt blue collar labor. I dont know anyone in IB who fills out time sheets.
1) no one is making time sheets. period.
2) who the hell is the audience here? you refer to a 'point' in your last paragraph, but what is the point and who the hell made it?!?!?
3) stop being a bitch. 80 hours is easy. 90 is easy. As I have not done 120 hours a week, i have definitely done 110... i would love to get 6 hrs of sleep each night... sadly it's more like 2 hours one night, 6 hours the next, 7 hours the next, 3 hrs... etc. etc.
Point three is most accurate with what happens. Also, how much do you really need to sleep? I can function pretty well on about four hours of sleep a night for four or five days then crash on the weekend, if possible, and not feel too bad. That means you can work from 9/10am-1/2am (16 or 17 hours) quite easily, then tack on 10 or so each day on the weekend and you've got over 100 hours. Now 120 is tough (but definitely not unheard of) and probably unsustainable for any long stretch of time but that rarely happens. The worst part is how variable it can be, like mentioned you can get 2, 6, 7, 3, etc. Also, if you have at least four hours at night to go home, NO reason to sleep at the office. I have done that once for about two hours and it sucked, just feel like garbage the next day.
Forget time sheets. The banks drug you and insert a chip into you. They also track your salt intake to make sure your a good healthy worker bee ala "Demolition Man".
120 hour week is really quite rare. Once you get past 100 everything goes to hell anyway, nobody is counting. But yeah, the number 120 is thrown around a little too loosely, I would agree. 65-105 hours is probably a more accurate range for how much a banker will work in a given week. I would say 75-85 is a pretty "normal" week.
And yes, it sucks. Sitting in a cubicle for 3 hours sucks, so, obviously, 80 hours really sucks. Trust me, I wish I could have played football for a living. You learn to deal with it.
Having been a D1 athlete in college, I can tell you that being forced to assert yourself physically when you don't want to is 100 times harder than being forced to assert yourself mentally when you don't want to.
Wrong, because you're not "forced to asset yourself mentally." You're forced to sit...for hours on end. Like prison. That's the hard part. Not this idea of "mental assertion" and how it compares to "physical assertion." That has nothing to do with it. Believe me, most of us wish we were asserting ourselves mentally to take our mind off of things
And this is coming from a former soldier, so I know a thing or two about physical duress myself.
120 is brutal. Extremely hard to sustain that pace. The worst part is that it's never 7 even days - that would actually be manageable...if you are working 120 it will probably involve lots of chaos and an all-nighter or two. It is never evenly spaced- you will get crushed at some point. If the chaos stretches a few weeks, caffeine will lose its edge and you will feel your heart pounding from the excessive red bull - even when you try to get that few hours of precious sleep.
120 hour weeks do happen, but rarely. 90+ hours on the other hand happened to me more than I care to count, and yes, sometimes it does entail sleeping under your desk or in a bathroom stall. You also need to get a grip on the way you're talking about hours - while banking may feel like a sweatshop, nobody has to fill out timecards, punch in/out, or bill a certain number of hours. You come in and don't leave until your shit is done. There's no overtime - it's just called "banker's hours".
Also, I'm confused as to why you're so indignant here - nobody on this board cares nearly enough to try to "prove" to you that yes, sometimes bankers work 120 hours, and yes, it is possible. Once you get a job you'll understand, but it's amazing the things you make possible under the social pressure at an investment bank (contrary to popular belief, it's not the money that keeps you there at 5am - it's the fear of looking like a moron or not finishing).
Lol I think the OP might think it's similar to consulting. I have to fill out timesheets for chargeable work so that the firm knows how much to bill the client. But from my understanding, banking fees are not based on hours right?
4 hours of sleep for 7 days straight is really pushing it for me. I dont care what any of you say if you get under 4 hours consistently it will start to have its effect on your ability to function and can cause really bad head aches.
120 hours in an office seems like a luxury! Try 7 months without seeing family or friends, going 72 hours without even one single hour of sleep....then sleeping in mud and getting pissed (rained) on. I forgot to mention the 100-120 degree heat and the 75lbs of gear on your back.
F#ck me, I complain if I have to do 50 hours. SB's to you Blokes who work massive hours. Dunno how you do it.
What I'm seeing here is just more self-promotion. Trying to make yourselves sound more bad-ass with things like "you come in and don't leave until the work is done." Acting like I'm not smart enough to smell BS just cause I don't work on Wall Street. Look, I know you guys don't have concrete amounts of work. The main goal in the job is to please the person above you. He gives you as much work as he wants and makes you stay as long as he wants you to stay. And I find it incredibly hard to believe there's no timesheets, because yes, everyone in business knows that investment bankers have to charge clients based on hours worked just like any client-serving professionals. You're only holding back because you know your timesheets are pathetic compared to your exaggerations.
Yes, I am indignant. I'm indignant because your constant exaggeration and self-promotion has tangible effects on demands placed on subordinates in all industries. Bad managers frequently justify 80-hour weeks by saying "just be happy you're not in banking, 120 hours is a typical week for them!" If I see proof that anyone on here has ever actually worked 120 hours of chargeable time, I will be extremely surprised.
Yes, the main goal is to please your boss. Your boss is pleased if the work gets done and the deal gets closed - then we all get paid. So yes, you come in in the morning and work as long as he wants you to stay. I'm sorry if you don't have that kind of work ethic, but tough shit, other people do, and that's why they don't have to submit timecards.
Bro, the timecards comment at the end was uncalled for :P. Way to insult your consulting brethren...
Dude, now you just sound like a f*cking pr!ck. Like I said, they don't bill clients based on hours worked. If pitches fall through, they don't get anything, and pitching is a big part of the job (correct me if I'm wrong here). Banker's get a percentage of the transaction amounts that they advise on.
In consulting they bill clients per hour, same with law and accounting. Not in banking. Get your head out of your ass.
Secondly, if you're in the office for 120 hours a week, its highly unlikely that all of that time is spent working...something called "down time".
Its not self-promotion. The problem in you believing the 120hr work week is YOUR own ability. YOU have convinced yourself that there is no way YOU could pull those hours, hence, no one else can. Simple as that.
Given that you "know" investment bankers clock in and out for lunch proves that you are by far the utmost authority on the subject, lol.
Regards
Guys -- please ignore the original poster. Obviously he is just trying to stir shit up. Nobody would ever come to an online forum and call bullshit on an industry worth of professionals and their practices.
Somehow I wish a few more people called BS on subprime-mortgage backed securities and the credit default swaps insuring those securities...
Normally I wouldn't call BS on a whole industry. But this is not a normal industry. It's an industry fueled by BS. And what I'm saying is that this BS is having effects on the expectations that are considered reasonable to place on workers in all industries. I don't care if you guys are too smart for time-sheets, if you're going to go around claiming you work 120-hours a week, provide the world some kind of proof. I've googled around and have seen nothing of the sort.
And I'm glad to see you guys have so much time to flame my post in your busy workweek.
What do you do for a living?
I'm glad to see that the manager at your grocery store gave your the password the access the wifi so you can research an industry you are obviously incapable of getting into. How much time do you get for break 30 minutes or 45?
Regards
SA's have to keep timesheets
I mean... I heard investment bankers have to work 160 hours a week and keep detailed time sheets to log their work progress...
Croato, you're an idiot.
1) They do work 120 hour weeks... RARELY. It does happen, though. 2) Everybody here is agreeing that bankers don't work 120 hour weeks. Everybody says 80-90 is more the norm. So... everybody is agreeing with you, what the f*ck are you still doing here? Also, my dad's a banker and in his 60s he still works 60 hours per week when he's in the US and closer to 80 when travelling. 3) They're on salary, why would they fill out time sheets? They don't bill hourly, why would they fill out timesheets?
Have you ever met a banker besides the one that blew his load on your back and never called you? I don't know what your looking at for a career, but whatever is, enjoy being mediocre at it. Anyone that's really successful, whether business, law, medicine, military, politics, government, etc is working at least 60 hours per week.
I worked one 120 hour week in banking over my 2 years, which included one stretch of 41 straight hours in the office (I got a two hour nap on my MD's couch from 3am-5am on the first night allnighter). This is fact and one of the other analysts in my class worked a 135 hour week...I remember leaving and coming back for 2 days and he hadn't changed clothes, bloodshot eyes and he was not making any sense. This isn't "cool" or "tough" -- it is just something analysts are basically forced to do if you dont want to lose your job. I'd say the norm is much closer to 80-85hr weeks.
But what made that 120hr week really hard in my case is that it was surrounded by 90-95 hour weeks...are you working the entire time when you're in the office? no, of course not. But banking is not consulting....there are no "billable hours"...
think about this: you just have to please the type-A associate that is above you that is trying to please the type-A VP above him that is trying to please the Type-A MD above him...Do you realize how much shit that can create? It's like an avalanche - there's no avoiding it and it is rolling downhill fast at all times. start shoveling.
Ahh man... The OP is slaying me. This made my day hahaha.
I know somebody a grade ahead of me that averaged 104 hours per week (maxed at 134 one week) during his internship. However, he was in one of the top 3-4 groups on the street and last summer there was a lot of work to get done.
It sounds tough, but I am still looking forward to getting an internship and putting in some hours this summer (I am sure I will regret it shortly after I start, but right now it sounds like a challange).
So what about from you military guys that spent time on/near the front lines that have since transitioned into banking. I am not sure which is worse but i would assume adrenaline would help you fight through when you absolutely had to (if you wanted to live).
My grandfather who was in WW2 told a story about how he hadnt slept in 2 days then his diviision got caught in a artillery bombardment where they were pinned down and he basically passed out in a wheat field and woke up 6 hours later.
Do you get crotch rot after a 120hr week? If not, I'd say the front-lines are worse
Obviously 120 hours straight while in warfare would make 120 hours of banking look like a walk in the park. Saying im not sure which is worse is bad wording on my part.
You guys are tools. You might work long hours, know minute details of financial instruments, and get high test scores, but you'll never be able to look back on your life objectively for fear of seeing what delusional, hypocritical, immature idiots you really were. Enjoy your four marriages, pricks.
You just proved his point... I'd like to personally call you an E-thug. Keep fighting behind your keyboard which key throws the left hook? A? S? maybe its W?
Lol, you come here and pick a fight with the whole banking community by calling them liars, and then you have the audacity to call everyone here tools?! You are even more pathetic than I initially thought. Can you please answer my earlier question?
What do you do for a living?
You know, you think this is an insult, but when you get married 4 times and each time you're marrying a smoking hot 25 year old D&G model, it's really not.
You're as delusional as the OP
lol
I'm with you Mezz...LOL.
Regards
most stupid thing I've ever seen here.
oh wait, second to OP's
Quia autem voluptatum est voluptatem soluta sapiente dolorem. Rerum veniam enim voluptatem porro fuga quisquam dolor. Eaque accusamus qui corporis. Velit ea omnis laudantium optio. A eos exercitationem molestias laudantium. Voluptatum magni sequi id aliquam.
Perspiciatis ratione nihil non ipsam voluptatem ut natus molestiae. Voluptatem atque maiores nobis dignissimos sapiente animi et. Tempore minima cum alias sint vel iure.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Sit aut optio eius harum quibusdam. Fugiat sint esse enim impedit rem est voluptatem. Fuga quis odio reprehenderit deleniti.
Quibusdam architecto consequatur doloremque possimus. Facilis eos exercitationem nostrum et molestiae velit. Voluptatem in voluptas et omnis itaque vero.
Autem dolores voluptatem beatae necessitatibus. Quo temporibus nam a odit et. Qui possimus accusantium atque ratione id non.
Id aliquid sed quod quidem nihil fugiat. Est occaecati laudantium veniam voluptas praesentium non eos. Exercitationem veritatis rerum veniam error amet ad consectetur.
Voluptates quo enim totam natus ut modi iure. Inventore eum cum rem aut aliquam.
Nisi sit corporis atque ut quia consequatur. Facilis voluptatem ea qui. Sed quos placeat eaque aperiam enim. Nostrum ea minima corporis aut asperiores et et.
Sit velit necessitatibus est ipsa cumque impedit. Corporis hic iure magni ullam. Dolores enim saepe est et dolores vero. Qui eos repellendus et expedita soluta. Consequatur quas et minima.